Originally posted by xiinfaniin: You see, good Gabal, when one is at my age one appreciates wit when he senses one. And I’ve appreciated the humor. That on a one hand Keligii Muslim Kashafa sees me as a qabiilist who supports PL on the expense of Somalia, AND on the other hand the bitter Duke, a man who is heart broken by Yey’s political exile, sees me a man who blindly supports Sharif on the expense of PL, that incongruous assessment of my political stance only ensures me that I occupy the middle summit between the two extreme polarities indeed. That is the true nugget of wisdom in this mad exchange You are a siyaasi my friend and when one is at my age you tend to admire and respect politicians of caliber and in the whole political game. I pray to see the day people like you and yes people like myself can contest the politics of the day freely and in advanced fashion. Somalia will be better off. Perhaps someday.

Shameful! I do not know the two men, Bihi and Jamaal personally but I do know I don't have a favorable opinion of them based on what I had seen or heard from them in the media. The irony here is my first exposure to Omar Jamaal was his defense of a rapist caught on tape in which he told both the press and the accused rapist people are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law and there is no reason for the accused to talk about his case. Now he leads a protest against an organization simply because they are upholding and teaching Somalis about constitutional rights!

Forgive me, dear Xiin. And Aamiin to that.

Xiin has never hidden his Puntland bias. You have only to look to Kismaayo where Somalia's most extreme version of Al Shabaab are presently in control. It is just there is no conflict of interest in Mogadishu hence the ability to freely choose sides. I would even go so far as to say old Xiin is not motivated by the success of Shiekh Sharif but a desire to prevent Al Shabaab incursion into Puntland. The is the ka hor tag part. Ironically, by true definition, he is more pro-Puntland and tolka's interest than my old friend SmithnWestern.

I mentioned several things my friend, what is it that you need reference of?

Originally posted by Abtigiis &Tolka: [QB] Gabbal has done a good job here in eduacting me. But I still have to be convinced that the Amhara's and Oromos/Somali's are of the same origin. Again, Ethiopian history, which enemity aside can not be all lies, says the Amharas,Tigre's gurage's, harari's are semitic tribes while Afars, Somali's, oromo's are Chushites. I tend to agree with that version of ethiopian history. At least language wise it makes a lot of sense. Do you speak Harari? It is af-axmaar la yara qaloocinayo. I am not so sure you understood. The idea that Somalis and Oromo are anymore closely related than Oromo to Amharo is not descriptive of reality. There are no "semitic people" or "cushitic people". These are only classification by tongue. The ethnic stock of Amharo is the same ethnic stock as Oromo greater than 90% and here you were discussing the Raya a Tigrey group of known recent Oromo origin. The Oromo themselves are not a people but a union by language. Those that came to speak this language came to be known as Oromo, and those that took on the displaced Ge'ez became Amharo. There is no existence of an Amharo people; it was a superlative class system for the ruling elite. You could be of any nationality and speaking any language and by virtue of becoming part of the ruling class you would become an Amhara. Also, there is a new theory which has been gaining some ground concerning the "Cushitic" sub-language family. It seems the "Cushitic" languages may not be languages of same descent after all, but a system of sprachbund, or languages that came to become similar to each other based on geographical proximity. The southeast languages are an example. So even the language between us and Oromo may not actually be from the same source.

I notice sometimes you try very hard to erase any hint of the source in your articles. You erase the title, the author, where you got it, etc.

Malaika and Meiji, I think I have been extremely fair in this topic with respect to my sympathetic treatment of Me even though I count myself a nominal member of Xiin's side of the divide. It seems Me does not have an alternative except to be againt the TFG. If Al Shabaab was any other entity I would give Me the benefit of the doubt but what we are facing if the TFG folds is an entity with transnational views, that has no respect for the Somali state, its institutions, its national sovereignty, its people's aspirations, its culture and socio-political dynamics,etc. We are facing an entity that wants to lay claim to the Somali state for the sole purpose of gaining more territory and using it as temporary gas to sustain them for more campaigns in the East African sub-region and beyond. What sane man would want these men to triumph no matter how disappointed you are with the TFG?

Originally posted by Malika: Ah!@ Gabbal, shoow meshaad kuu damqatee aad kasoo bodee baa hadaan arkee..lol Anigu bulshada Soomaaliyeed difaac yaan usoo galay qabiil umaan gelin. Ayadoo sidaas ah dhaqanka Soomaaliyeed waa mid qabiil ku dhisan sidaas awgeed mararka qaarkood waxaa dhici karto inaan qabiil laga fursan karin kolka dhaqanka iyo taariikhda Soomaaliyeed so hadal qaadid.

Originally posted by Abtigiis &Tolka: My credentials about gumaysi-diid are impeccable saaxib. If I weren't, given the profile of some of my classmates in the current government in Addis, you would have seen me on TV as an Ambassador of Ethiopia to the UN or a big Minister. Not fighting a mundane cyber-war with imposters like Oodweyne! You are not a Gebre- awoowe and only a Gebre- is allowed those positions.

Mida kale, in the 16th century, Somali u soo dhow Harar ma jirin runtii. Waa dhow ayeynu dhulkan soo gaadhnay. So, I think Amir Nur could have been a sole traveller. Who told you this lie? Adeer, Oromos, Harari, Amharo etc are all a collection of unrelated nationalities united by common land. The Amhara you hear of are 90% of the same stock as the Oromo only speaking a different language. The rest are Agew. The only thing that took place in that land was a linguistic displacement where Gee'ez transplanted itself there but the people are all of the same stock who rooted their identity in their early land. Up to Harar going towards the north to the east and northwest were in the hands of Somalis. Do me a favor and get Shihab ad-Din's Futah Al Habesha which is the only recorded eye account of Ahmed Gurey's time and his fights (Shihab was a literate Yemeni in the court of Adal who recorded in Arabic). In the middle of the 1500's, many of the established Somali clans are as recorded as they are today and many of the leaders named are today the ancestors of "reers" in many of those clans. The Oromos were to the south west of Ethiopia and the first time the Habesha have seen the sight of Harrar was less than a 150 years ago. p.s. There is a lot to Somali oral history. It would surprise you how compatible it is with recorded history.

I am surprised a gumaysi diid has taken the gumaysi's version of history without any reservations. You need to double check your true support to the cause my friend. As for Western history, I hope you can excuse away the clan name in this article, but there is no doubt who these great Somali men were.

TFG is bad, fine. Do you have an alternative Me?

Me, you have already eloquently established your position against the TFG. What the gallery now wants to hear is what is the alternative? Remember the political situation in Somalia is a two street today as Xiin put forward. Either you support Al Shabaab or your support the TFG or you take the third civilian option and remain neutral. If it is the latter two, then this discussion would become pointless since Xiin would not have a bone to pick with you. If it is the earlier, then you need to say so because this is what the topic is about. p.s. If I am playing self-declared referee role, bear with me.

Originally posted by Abtigiis &Tolka: None of Sheikh Hussien or Imam Nur were Somali's, dear Adam. I like your patriotism but let us not lay claim to what is not ours. Imam Nur is a Harari, and Sh. Hussien is from Wollo. No one ever said they are Somali's. I am insulted by your arrogant ignorance. Not only has it been "said" he is Somali but his direct descendants are alive and trace their genealogy directly through him. I had the pleasure of reading just two days ago the news of the construction of an "Emir Nuur Secondary School" where some of his descendants live today. Dugsiga Sare ee Amiir-nuur oo dhismihiisa dhawaan la dhagax digay degmada G/haarey ee xarunta G/Gedo Jul 06,2009 byG/Haarey-Gedo-News Xilli bishii aynu soo dhaafnay ey arday ku dhow 200 oo arday ay u fariisteen Imtixaankii fasalka 8aad ayaa waxaa haatan la bilaabay dhismaha dugsi Sare oo laga bilaabay magaalada G/haarey. Dugsigani Sare ee Amiir-nuur oo horey ogu jirey dhismayaal kira ah ayaa haatan wuxuu dhismihiisa ka soconayaa gudaha degmada G/haarey. Dugsigani Amiie-nuur ayaa waxaa dhismihiisa haatan iska kaashaday Ururka SEDO iyo Hay’ada NCA, sida uu noo xaqiijiyay Wali Maxamuud Cigaal oo ah wakiilka Ururka SEDO ufadhiyo degmada G/haarey, waxaana lagu qiyaasay qarashaka haatan ku baxayo dhismahani dugsiga Sare $71’500 Dollar (todobaata iyo kow kun iyo shanboqol oo Doolarka Mareykanka ah) lacagtani ayaa 61.5% waxaa bixinayo Ururka SEDO, Xafiiskeeda Norway iyo kan G/haarey, halka 38.5% ay bixnayso Hay’ada NCA. Waxayna sidoo kale dugsiga Sare u balanqaaday Hayadda NCA in ay ka garab istaagi doonto Qalabka Sheybaarka iyo Mushaarka macalimiinta in ay ka kaabayso. Dugsigani Sare ee Amiir-nuur ayaa markii igu horeysay laga furey bilowgii 2008-dii ayaa ardayda waxkabarato waxay haatan ku guda jiro sanad dugsiyeedkiisii labaad, iyada oo Manhajka lagu dhaga uu yahay Manhajka Dalka Kenya ee aynu daraska nahay. Iyada oo uu haatan dalka Soomaalya ku jiro ku dhawaad 20-sano oo Dowlad la’aan ah ayaa hadana waxa dhanka kale garab socdo diiri galinta kaabayaasha Waxbarasha, inkastoo dhinaca kale ay weli dagaalo ay Dadbadani ku dhinteen uu ka soconayo meelo badan oo ka mid ah Dalka Somaliya. Wali Sheikh Cabdi Gedo ews Network G/haarey Gedo Somalia Source

Originally posted by xiinfaniin: ^^Ma intaas baad rimanayd awoowe? I do not think this retort is appropriate Xiin. Me has eloquently put forward his position against the TFG. The least you can do is recognize it. As for the Al Shabaab issue. Dhab kama aha, it is my enemy's enemy is my friend ( ) although you can surely argue the logic here is seriously amiss considering the repercussions of an Al Shabaab triumph in the Somali state.

Both Rift Valley and Eastern are wrong.

Originally posted by Juje: quote:Originally posted by Gabbal: I agree. Duke waa dhal shaydaan. Wasr hedhe Horn se Alla ku galey - aan kala xishoono sxb. Duke wixii aad rabtiid ku sheeg lakiin Wallahi ana ka marqati ah in usan aheyn dhal shaydaan. Juujoow Duke oo xayi ah yaad aragtaye kolkuu caloosha kasoo baxay miyaad taagnayd? Never say anaa marqati ka ah my friend!

Beggers can't be choosers awoowe, and Al Shabaab is not the future. Here is an idea; if you are against the TFG for whatever reason, stay neutral. You and your concepts of Somali sovereignty will be taken more seriously then supporting Al Shabaab and using those notions of Somali sovereignty as the foundation for that support. Al Shabaab and Somali sovereignty are mutually exclusive.

Originally posted by me: Layzie, TFG is not a government but a cover screen for the colonization of Somalia. One could argue colonization is better for Somalia when compared with its post-1991 condition, no?

It is their money. They have a right to request oversight of its usage. If the future of Somalia is on the shoulders of the individuals who started and contributed to this topic then I pray for my nation.

The article has the markings of a tabloid.

Originally posted by Malika: ,the exchanges here are absolute hilarious,raw comedy.. I agree. Duke waa dhal shaydaan. Abwaan adeer tookada danbe ninkaad ku tiraahdid kuu jawaabi maaya jawaab u diid dee.

Originally posted by me: The TFG on the other hand are trying to preserve a dying order. They want to institutionalize the clan. They want to go begging to donor countries, they want to accept the parameters that have been given to them. This quote and the highlighted area in particular is important and needs expanding on your part. It is really a great point also and can serve as your basis for why the TFG is not the vehicle with which the Somali nation can extract itself from the post-1991 dilemma.

Originally posted by Meiji: Gabbal, So by presenting the full story instead of letting the half-story of propagandists circulate I am defending someone? I presented the full story, and people wouldn't have died of starvation if their agricultural lands were not destroyed by the retreating and advancing forces in the Civil War. The failure to deliver the Food Aid to those people only made it worse. Listen to me awoowe. I once defended the past until I realized no sane individual can defend the mad years of those times. No one can defend any part of and with any excuse, whether it is my group was under extinction or I was protecting myself. Somali fratricide occurred and all our fingerprints are on it. Every single person's fingerprint is on it. I did not defend the Barre side nor hid the fact burning of food crop occurred. Even so, there is a reason why Aidiid was hunted, there is a reason why the mandate of the whole U.N. was changed, and there is a reason the movie Black Hawk Down starts out with Aideed affiliated gangs looting U.N donated food at the port. With all due respect you are coming across as someone who is trying to defend all of this and one questions when you will realize you cannot defend the indefensible.