Xiin, it may well be a waterloo, and I would argue for both Xisbul Islam and the Shabaab's combined armed Islamist movement, but if I were to ask you, who are the Prussians and the allies in this case? As you said, and I find myself in agreement with, the Gedo boys are not for rent and particularly by Sheikh Sharif or his men. Ironically enough it is my belief they could have worked something out with Abdullahi Yusuf but Shiekh Sharif or his men are out of the question. First impression was everything and the relationship between them has already been concluded as is apparent to anyone who observes this group. My point is they aren't Shiekh Sharif's Prussians and essentially even if Shabaab was severly weakened and Kismaayo was as defenseless and ripe for the taking as possible, what arm of the TFG institution as it exist is capable of filling the void against clannish interests from clans who would be in a stronger position by the collapse of Islamist rule?

Originally posted by Juje: Kabo-Jaceel is in the same category as the Gedo boys who were on the side of Shabab when Barre Hirale was running barefoot. And you have just reiterated my point. Men willing to go after their own cannot be accused of tribalism.

Originally posted by Juje: This is a smack in the face of those that claim that Shabab is clean from tribalism. This same man is from Ahmed Madoobe's clan and according to him all the Shabaab commanders who commanded the fight against Madoobe were from Ras Kambooni. Rather this is a smack in the face to those who claim Shabaab is not clean from tribalism. In the audio he asks, what are Kambooni and Caanoole, who has ever heard of mucaskars made of single clans?

Originally posted by General Duke: What are they digging for that is in the air strip? Uranium. The Ethiopians are not digging for it, they are protecting a multinational. This attempt has been going on for sometime now. First the company and the Ethiopians tried bribing the elders but this was unsuccessful with the maamul stressing only a Somali government has the rights to give such a permission. Now it seems the are simply muscling their way in and Ahlu Sunnah has prevented the only authority capable of stopping them from coming into the area.

Dhubad, even if such is the case, a Kismaayo takeover by the tribal militias of Kambooni/Canoole/Xis bul Islam would have fared worse for the Gedo community than the Shabaab hold of the city. The Shabaab's target is international and not a specific clan whereas the primary target of the tribal alliance on the other side would have been the Gedo community in the city. Even if such is the case, it is a strategic decision for both the alleged supporters and the alleged supported.

Whoever came up with this blanket assertion Xisbul Islam is a "local Somali group" or that Xassan Dahir is nationally minded must have been seriously misinformed about Somali politics. The only difference between Xisbul Islam and Al Shabaab is a competition for limelight if the movement actually succeeds. Al Shabaab are younger men with energy and vitality the elder warriors cannot compete with if they were to share a single name. This is perhaps the only reason Xisbul Islam exists or a man like Shiekh Turki (who is perhaps the single most extreme religious personality in the Somali Republic) would choose to join them instead of the Shabaab. There is nothing local about the objectives of the Xisb and certainly nothing less extreme. They are just as extreme in objective and just as international at least when it comes to ambitions against neighboring states. Al Itihad under Aweys in Luuq had just as much if not more foreign fighters although the conflict then was more contained. I cannot fathom what would make anyone think Xassan Dahir or Turki would join forces with Sharif and AMISOM against their ideological brethren except a very naive and unrealistic hope in the unseen. These two men are the most wanted Somali extremists in the world. They are in the lists of everything from Interpol to the U.S State Department and still are even after much begging from the UNPOS and Sharif's government. They have zero incentive to capitulate and go against their ideological brethren because of a small time political disagreement especially since the Shabaab are making such an effort to pin their fight against a single man and not the political group he represented.

Originally posted by Cowke: We will see how this all unsurfaces, what is suprising is the gedo foot-soldiers for the shabab movement. It really just proves to you their loyalties are always somewhere else those certain people, it's not the first time they bum down to a distant group nor will it be the last. Shame on gedo yet again doing a dog-act. Not that any of what you have said is correct, but can I ask what the objectives were behind the concept of "Caanoole" and Ras Kamboni being a one-clan Islamist movement if not vehicles for clan ambition hidden behind veneers of Islamic garb? What has happened in Kismaayo was a year in the making. It was only a matter of when Shabaab's patience would have seen their limit. It is a fact out of the three groups who united to wage war against the personal militia of Barre Hiiraale, Al Shabaab is the only group to have had a non-clannish agenda. Both Kambooni and Caanoole were clan agendas and such clan agendas were destined to showcase themselves and could not have survived with the non-clannish agenda of the militant but non clannish Shabaab. The chickens have come home to roost awoowe.

It is in the archives.

Me, when it comes to Kismaayo good Xiin supports Al Shabaab although I believe his support might have changed in this instance.

No surprise here. It was only a matter of time.

This has nothing to do with people "coming to understand Al Shabaab" especially the likes of Turki who is perhaps more extreme and militant than the majority of Al Shabaab's leaders. Turki is purely catering to his base to keep a hold on their support which makes him relevant. It is most definitely not new and the tension has been there from the beginning of the Islamist conquer of Kismaayo. I said 6 months ago: Not at all Nuune, because the clans themselves are not central to the picture. It is the Islamist groups who are challenging each other (what we would call "xiniinyo-taabasho") . Naturally Ras Kamboni has its supporters, for clan reasons or not, on one side and Al Shabaab has been taking a very pro-active move to ally themselves with the Gedo side recently. The competition itself is not new but Xassan Turki taking sides is. If you remember when the alliance of the Islamist groups first took on Barre Hiiraale's personal militia, they set up an administration that was majority Al Shabaab (the Gedo Islamists who begun the war against Barre himself were Al Shabaab) but there was great dissatisfaction among Kamboni side and men like Ibarhim Shugri Abu Zaynab even publicly aired their defection. However Turki himself bestowed legitimacy on that administration and so peace reigned. That administration was itself supposed to be temporary for a 6 month basis but Al Shabaab has deafened itself to calls for change after the time has lapsed. Now Turki himself joined the fray calling for a new administration and still Al Shabaab has continued to resist. This is where the present hostilities are emanating from and why each group is trying to campaign for support within the local community if war becomes necessary. Source The fundamental disagreement between the two sides is thus; Al Shabaab does not want nor will give in to an administration that will be composed according to clan because it threatens the whole existence and unity of their control in the southern regions while the Kambooni group wants an administration that favors them clan wise. As a result Al Shabaab is more fearful of destroying the unity and integrity of their base by caving into a clannish administration than it is of engaging Kambooni as a group.

This is like saying eat from my plate but do not overreach lest it becomes too obvious. It reeks of stinking hypocrisy and caliber of dishonesty that is beyond arrogant. Really this is a disappointment. Has your apologism gone so far as to imply there exists cities more Somali than Beled-Weyne? What you are saying is because Beled-Weyne city is geographically closer to the border than would be a tiny village near the coast, the Ethiopian incursion in Beled-weyne city should then not be taken as a blemish on the Sharif government (which by the way has not condemned the incursion) as it would if the target had been the village more to the interior? I have two things for you adeer; 1.) The foundation of the Djibouti peace process which enthroned and legitimized Shiekh Sharif and his national unity government was the complete withdrawal of Ethiopian forces from sovereign Somalia. It was not withdrawal from Mogadishu. It was the withdrawal from the contiguous territory recognized as the sovereign soil of the Somali Republic. Sheikh Sharif and his ARS-Djibouti did not agree to and was not legitimized by dishonest language, interpretation, or excuse for the Ethiopian invasion forces which would include (as you have arrogantly come with) a concept of Ethiopian-free and Ethiopian-trespass zones in the territory known as the sovereign and independent Republic of Somalia. 2.) Ethiopia itself has outlined the agreement that led to its withdrawal. This is not the first time Al Shabaab has been active in Beled-Weyne environs or the Hiiraan region. As we all remember, shortly ago, the speaker of the parliament Madoobe sent out a plea for neighboring state interference within a 24 hour period to stave off, what he called, an "eminent danger to the existence of the TFG". Both the Ethiopian prime and foreign ministers, Zenewi and Mesfin, responded separately to the international press with the same message, that it is not Ethiopia's responsibility to protect the TFG or influence the political leadership of Somalia but rather to protect its own sovereignty and territory only if and when attacked by any entity in Somalia. Who attacked Ethiopia? What legitimacy does Ethiopia have for the incursion into Somalia and why is the Sharif government and Sharif himself silent on the issue? Is this not silent support, i.e. capitulation? You cannot compare this to the brief and disastrous incursion of theirs' in the Gedo region shortly ago. The Sharif government was not in power and the Djibouti process was not implemented. The situation today is markedly different. Anigu waxaan maqli jiray, waalida kolkay madax siibanayso saansaan bay leedahay. Mar waxaad eegi qofkiyoo shaar la'aan ah, mar kabtiiyoo la xooray, sidaa bay kusii socon ilaa iyo heer cawradu banaantahay. Waxii un baa meesha ka socoto, waad lalmaysaa Xiinoow anigu sidaan u jeedo.

Duke what do you get from this? We all know what Abdullahi Yusuf stands for according to you, but clearly the overwhelming majority of forumers disagree with you day in and day out. Cut your losses and move on adeer.

The ousted Islamists provided peace and security unparalleled since the fall of the late government but they are not the future Nuunoow. They were never meant to be. We should continue to monitor the developing story.

Somali town cleared of Islamists Wednesday, August 19, 2009 Troops loyal to Somalia's UN-backed government have regained control of a town from radical Islamist fighters - the second such victory in recent days. Commanders with the moderate Ahlu Sunna group say they took Luq town, near the Ethiopia border, without a fight. On Monday Ahlu Sunna drove radicals out of the nearby town of Bulo Hawo as part of a government offensive. Militant groups are locked in a fight with government forces and each other for control of the country. Thousands of civilians have been killed and more than a million driven from their homes because of fighting in the past two years. On Tuesday, the UN said Somalia was now the world's most dangerous country for aid workers. Forty-two workers have been killed since January 2008 and a further 33 abducted, the UN said. Fears In recent days, forces loyal to the government have stepped up a campaign to drive radical fighters out of towns in the south-western province of Gedo. The BBC's Mohammed Olad Hassan, in the capital, Mogadishu, says Hizbul Islam, who had controlled Luq town, fled when they heard the troops were approaching. A local elder in Luq told AFP news agency there had been no fighting. "We saw the pro-government militia enter the town... and they now control it." But locals expressed fears that militias could be gathering on the outskirts to launch a counter-attack. Hizbul-Islam and its ally al-Shabab are fighting the UN-backed interim government and together control much of southern Somalia. Both groups are said to have links to al-Qaeda and have been reinforced by foreign fighters.

Maxay macno tari? Being a fool is trying the same thing and expecting different results. This TFG is a failure just like the past ones.

Originally posted by Mostapha Dualeh: Was Abdirisaq after the interest of somalis generally as the professor claims or was he after the interest of his sub-clan. Sometimes when the truth is distorted it loses its substance. Do not insult the good man. Somalis have a rather irritating habit of substituting assumption for fact. To the rest of you, I believe this assessment to be the most clear analysis of the riwaayad in Somalia.

Very sobering dialogue put forward by the good professor Samatar. I agree. What is going on in the former Somali Republic is a theatrical show gone very wrong.

Originally posted by Paragon: Barre didn’t play along. He said, “I never knew your son. But keep the money flowing.” And they did. The interesting thing about this sensationalization is the emphasis on Barre's political independence. It is something that deserves a moment to savor considering political independence is a foreign concept now and in the near future for Somalia.

The irony here is Professor Dalxa is one of the true educated members of that so-called Parliament. Imagine a man like Cali America controlling a Somali president's entourage and calling shots on Dalxa, a man he should be driving for if Somalis had any respect for true calibre of worth.

Originally posted by General Duke: Gabbal; adeer thr fact of the matter is if you posted good things about Gedo or anyother place it would never anger me. Why the news from Puntland made you so full of hatred and envy is only a question you have the answer for. Get some help old boy for yourself , Taano & Hiiraale. I am offended you think good news from Puntland offends me. :mad: But that is you my friend, always throwing a red herring.

Someone once said negative press or good press, press is press. I am well aware of Gaaroodi's hate oriented and primitive reasoning for posting this, but that makes him look small. Gabbal does not need to shed light on it. What surprises Gabbal is the fact that the one man who saturates the forum with Puntland news has never once given attention to the real and human situation in Puntland. What does that tell you? I'll tell you it surprises Gabbal!

You have a chip on your shoulder my friend, bal adigu is qanci. Every time I witness your saturation I am reminded of what Xiin once said to you.

The irony is you will never see Duke post such a topic as this even if this one is worth our attention more than four men in simple uniform marching on a basketball court.

Puntland is just another poor section of a poor nation my friend. Granted the region has built itself some modicum of organization and stability yet still the overwhelming majority of its citizenry live on the remittance of welfare supported relatives in the West and the "success" of the admin is judged by what UN aid group they meet with. Not to short change the relative success of the state in comparison to other anarchy-prone areas in Somalia, particularly the south, but the forum does not deserve this saturation my friend Duke. I am surprised living in that gold state of Minnesota has not impressed you enough to pine for such a poor and dusty region in the world's poorest and most dustiest nation. On the other hand, you are pining and boasting from that golden state instead of simply flying to and boasting from that oasis of earthly paradise. Authenticity anyone? Come back down to earth Duke.