ADMIN I ask again why were the pictures erased? Ayoub-Sheikh Your friend Angel Dust was passing out awards in another thread, maybe she should give you best propagandist. Anyway as I have said before, I did not want to join another meaningless debate. This is the last time I repond to this thread. [ June 10, 2003, 12:32 PM: Message edited by: HornAfrique ]

This is how it's going so far, Shujui. code: NOVIB SOMALIA SOMALIA NATIONAL RECONCILIATION CONFERENCE MBAGATHI, KENYA Supported By EC Somalia Unit Oxfarm Netherlands The plenary adjourns - June 9, 2003 On 9th of June, the plenary debate on the Charter adjourned following the advise of the working committee. The original committee had split into two and produced two different reports, a charter based on a federal system and one on unitary system. The Harmonization Committee produced a general report as part of the harmonization exercise while the Leaders Committee published their view on the issue. The chairman of the committee gave an overview of the reports and warned that they could not be debated by the plenary given the differences inherent in them. As a result of the discussions, Amb. Kiplagat suggested for the working committee to meet in full number and use all the reports available in order to produce a harmonized version, for what they will be free to make consultations with stakeholders. He asked the Leaders Committee to remain in the compound to facilitate this task. He advised the working committee to meet and write a progress report on the areas of agreement and those that require compromise. After consultation with the plenary it was agreed that the working committee to submit an interim report by Tuesday (10th) or Wednesday (11th) and the full report to the plenary on Thursday. Reaction of the some plenary members Prof. Mohamed Ali Abokor, a member of the harmonization committee co-chaired by Prof. Abdi Ismail Samatar said that it was not prudent for the split to be mentioned to the plenary. He was as well dismayed by IGAD's decision to give preference to the Leaders Committee's report over the Harmonization Committee one. Mr. Ashara of the Puntland Administration believes that it is possible to harmonize the two reports as the existing difference is little if not complicated. He added that the differences are on the two systems proposed, when and how to implement, the number of the national assembly members and who will appoint them. He said that the disagreement on the Executive (Prime minister and President) had already been overcome. Mr. Ibrahim of the Civil Society argued that the group is not likely to harmonize and the best way would have been engaging prominent lawyers, political scientists and experienced personalities on institutional building to carry out the exercise. Ali Da`un and Muktar Ali Yussuf said that it was irresponsible of the working committee to submit two reports because what the Somalis want is one charter and not the division that already exist in Somalia. They understand Amb. Kiplagat point as a warning and if they do not come up with harmonized report, then a decision to intervene will be made. The plenary was full today but the only political leader present was the TNG Prime Minister, Mr. Hassan Abshir Farah while others were represented by their deputies. The political leaders, who escorted the body of the late Gen. Aden Abdullahi Nur Gebyow to Buale of Middle Jubba region, Somalia are reported in Kismayo. Col. Abdullahi Yussuf Ahmed of Puntland is still away though expected soon. Others in Nairobi who include Hussein Farah Aidid and Mohamed Khanyare Afrah among others, were represented by their loyals. The discussion on the Charter is the last task for the Phase II plenary of the Conference. Following discussions and debate around the other five reports produced by the Reconciliation Committees, final work on the Charter will mark the transition to Phase III and, therefore the appointment of a new government for Somalia.

Propogand to discredit the Peace Talks :mad: Would not be surprised if Ethiopia, or another enemy is behind this.

Dear imposter, I, HornAfrique, have a simple mathematical equation for you. I would appreciate it if the respected Nomads/Aliens in the great forum paid attention. Paltalk+Man Of Freedom=Thoth Sincerely, HornAfrique

Askarta baydhabo wareegeysa yee yihiin?

Manshallah I loved it.

This is what the teacher said. Pat McEvoy, a secretary at a high school in Columbus, said she had known very little about Islam before the seminar. Her school has an influx of students from Somalia, and as she walked through the hallways she regarded these immigrants as "a virtual mission field." She said she felt an obligation to save them from an eternity in Hell. "If I had the answer for cancer, what sort of a human would I be not to share it?" Ms. McEvoy said. A link to the article

Admin why was my post edited? The only think that is altered in my post were the pictures? What was so wrong with them, that they were edited? Gediid I'm at ods as you are, I was told that the most prestigous high school in Addis was named after him, but if not then I don't know.

Shujui

Xiis prepared to commit collective suicide and take the whole Somali nation down with us..! Isn't this how Siad Barre destroyed the Somali Democratic Republic? Sad

Allah subxanawatacaala knows if it's true or not, but if it's true, then I hold disgust for that guy, not pity!

Ayoub :rolleyes: I don't want to debate with you about what Gaal was better or not, but I hold Sayid Abdullah's resistence in high esteem and will always hold it as. The part about Italians thinking of prosyltezing Somalis, do you think the British didn't think of prosyltizing too? Infact the British had converted more Africans to Christianity then any other colonizers. But if you have ever tried to look beyond the words of that post, you would have maybe figured out that the Somalis in Italian Somaliland did not have as much a big reason to resist the Italians then the Somalis in the British "Proctectorate" did, because it was maybe, just maybe, it was beneficial for them. As I have said countlessly both were Gaalo and colonizers and deserved to be kicked of our land, but if we had to look back in history, any sane person would know which one of the two was better for the Somali people. [ June 08, 2003, 03:01 AM: Message edited by: Admin ]

A fact indeed Gediid, the most prestigious high school in Addis is named after him.

" Great minds think alike". They sure do

but my brother look up a man by the name of OMAR SAMATER, not ALI SAMATAR LOL. He was a warrior who fought the Italians till late 1945 and is a national hero in Ethiopia, bet your mother hasn’t told you that hey Infact the most prestigous high school in Addis Ababa is named after Omar Samantar, and do you know why? When Haile Salassie was expelled from Ethiopia, it was Omar Samantar who, at the break of dawn, whisked Haile's wife and kids away to Somalia, and held them there as Haile tried to get help from Europe.

I don't want to go into another meaningless debate about a non-existent state, because I have been in too many, but I would just say that Ayoub-Sheikh actually reminds me of a bad politician, who he tried to twist and turn my words. Even though they were both gaals and colonized, i would just repost what Baashi posted on another thread from the Library of Congress. The two decades between 1900 and 1920 were a period of colonial consolidation. However, of the colonial powers that had divided the Somalis, only Italy developed a comprehensive administrative plan for its colony. The Italians intended to plant a colony of settlers and commercial entrepreneurs in the region between the Shabeelle and Jubba rivers in southern Somalia. The motivation was threefold: to "relieve population pressure at home," to offer the "civilizing Roman mission" to the Somalis, and to increase Italian prestige through overseas colonization. Initiated by Governor Carletti (1906-10), Italy's colonial program received further impetus by the introduction of fascist ideology and economic planning in the 1920s, particularly during the administration of Governor Cesare Maria de Vecchi de Val Cismon. Large-scale development projects were launched, including a system of plantations on which citrus fruits, primarily bananas, and sugarcane, were grown. Sugarcane fields in Giohar and numerous banana plantations around the town of Jannaale on the Shabeelle River, and at the southern mouth of the Jubba River near Chisimayu, helped transform southern Somalia's economy. In contrast to the Italian colony, British Somaliland stayed a neglected backwater. Daunted by the diversion of substantial development funds to the suppression of the dervish insurrection and by the "wild" character of the anarchic Somali pastoralists, Britain used its colony as little more than a supplier of meat products to Aden. This policy had a tragic effect on the future unity and stability of independent Somalia. When the two former colonies merged to form the Somali Republic in 1960, the north lagged far behind the south in economic infrastructure and skilled labor. As a result, southerners gradually came to dominate the new state's economic and political life--a hegemony that bred a sense of betrayal and bitterness among northerners.

Angel_Dust (aka Samy Gyrl) no matter how much you change your nick you're still one and the same. Pro-secessionists in this debate tried to discredit Baashi's post by saying he wrote that piece about the north lagging behind, when he merely reposted it from the Library of Congress. Besides is it me or are the "pros" always the rude debaters in here who always resort to name callings and insults and such :confused:

By William Maclean and Nicholas Kotch Mr. Bethuel Kiplagat NAIROBI, June 3 — If optimism is the mark of a diplomat, Bethuel Kiplagat is a true professional. The veteran Kenyan negotiator, mediating Somalia's 14th bid to make peace in a decade, said on Tuesday he expected warring factions to wrap up seven months of talks by forming an interim government in two weeks' time. ''Our target is the 18th (of June) to have a president,'' Kiplagat told Reuters in an interview on the sidelines of the peace conference of 361 delegates near Kenya's capital Nairobi. A retired foreign ministry official involved in African conflicts for decades, Kiplagat does not subscribe to the common view that Somali clan leaders are uniquely argumentative. ''One of the things I have been fighting against is that people tell me that Somalis are the most difficult people. I tell them this is not true. They are like any of us -- hot-headed, difficult, but you talk with them and look, they are still here and the (peace) process is still going on.'' Kiplagat, a suave, silver-haired figure whose sharp business suits mark him out from the more casually dressed militia chiefs he mingles with, suggested he enjoys chairing the talks. ''There is humour, there is laughter, there is anger,'' he said. ''You'll be bored because sometimes they repeat themselves. But have you been to the U.N.? It is boring like hell! There are no fireworks whereas here at least we have some anger and some humour.'' Somalia has been wracked by civil war since the overthrow of military ruler Mohammed Siad Barre in 1991. A transitional government controls only a part of Mogadishu while everywhere else numerous warlords hold sway. Peace talks began in Kenya last October, bringing in more factions than ever before. Many previous attempts to end the conflict have failed, defeated by wrangling between rival clans. RAPID TIMETABLE Kiplagat said the total bill for his peace process since October last year was $13-14 million with most of the funding coming from the European Union and its member states. He said U.S. financial support was modest and Washington was not ''focused'' on the issue. Kiplagat laid out an almost implausibly rapid timetable for the talks. He said that in the next two weeks he expected the delegates to agree an interim federal charter for the lawless southerly regions of the country. The Kenyan gathering would also form a parliament that would elect a speaker, deputy speaker and president of an interim government. The president would appoint a cabinet before leading his government back to Somalia to take up office in Mogadishu. Kiplagat, who said he already had the names of ''six or seven'' presidential hopefuls, admitted that the delegates have not yet agreed on the size of parliament. He said delegates were talking variously of a body of 450, 225, 331 or 171 members. ''We will compromise,'' he said. The talks will not rake up the sins of the past, he said, as it might threaten the broad representation of clans attending the talks. The conference is the most representative political gathering ever held of Somali's mostly southern-based warlords. ''We can deal with the problems of atrocities committed later but not now,'' he said. ''We have everybody here and that's what will determine the success of this. Source: Reuters, June 04, 03

Ayoub_Sheikh I consider myself a Somali, citizen of the Somali land from Djibouti to the NFD, from the Ogaden to the Indian Ocean, but are you actually saying that the British were better for the Somalis than the Italians? By the way, the Brits got into a little bit of trouble when they started to break the agreements, unlike the Talianis They were both gaals and colonizers, but which one of the two seceded the Hawd to Ethiopia? The Ogaden to Ethiopia? Which one of the two just wanted to colonize one part of our lands so their trade routes can be secured without caring about the well beings about our lands or people? Which one actually built some sort of economy to sustain us? Which one of the two built plantations to farm in, and a railroad to connect it with the biggest Somali city? Which one of the two used airplanes to to fight us with, the first occurance in the African continent? Which one of the two signed agreements with us, and after deciding to colonize us without building an economy, destroyed those agreements? Which one of the two introduced Bananas to us as a cash crop, one of Somalia's major exports might I add. To go back to history the Italians received only Muqdisho from the Sultan, not any other place. Somalis do have a proud history, excluding the colonization part, and it's sad you don't know anything about. Besides I hint a bit of ethnocentrism, quit maybe racism, from you. I just wish to add that "Somaliland" is not an ethnicity, however much you wish it to be, but a non-existent political entity not recognized by any nation on the face of the great Earth.

The fact that a Christian led a militantly Muslim Somalis speak volumes of how determined and united we used to be.

SNM he and Mengistu signed an agreement whereby Somalia would no longer lay claim to any territory under Ethiopian rule and in return Mengistu would expell the SNM out of their camps in Ethiopia Geedid brother the only thing I know about that "cease-fire" was that if Siad Barre stopped the incursions into Ethiopia, then Mengistu would dismantle the SNM's military activities in Ethiopia, but not expel them. It was a voluntary decision by the SNM to leave Ethiopia and attack within Somalia. Sorry, I don't mean to be so argumentative, but you have exactly my point Geediid. The Ogaden War was a stupid error on Barre's part, and we are still seeing the reprecussions of that 2 1/2 decade old war.

You cannot go from anarchy to claiming so called "recognized and sovereign territories" of other nations. Many Somalis like Hornafrique and my self don't see territories like the Ogaden as part of Ethiopia. yet they are so called "Recognized" borders of Ethiopia. If you tell an Ethiopian that the Ogaden regions don't belong to his country, he'll ask you to go look at the map "recognized by the UN of course". Even though he very well knows that the majority of ppl in that region are somali, and they are against Ethiopian occupation. Lander sxb it's good to know we're on the same page. While the U.N is what is legitimizing the Ethiopian boundary, it is what will delegitimize it through peaceful means via the International Court in the Hague. Have you heard of the Bakassi dispute? Nigeria and Cameroon have disputed over the Bakassi peninsula since both country's independence, and at one time almost went to war over it. Late last year the International court in the Hague awarded it to Cameroon and Nigeria contested defeat. That is what will happen in the Horn. I'm not saying that we should take the Ogaden into court at this troubled time, but inshallah when there is a reunited Somalia with a broad based federal government it will be done. I've always thought that if the late Barre regime did one stupid thing, it was the Ogaden War. From there on everything started to go downhill. So if the court gives it to Somalia, alhamdulilah, if not...waxba ma saadinaayi hadeer but the important thing is we have to settle it through peaceful means. Pro "Somalilanders" in this forum have always accused me of saying the "Somaliland" should immediately unite back with Somalia, when I have never said such a thing! I have always said that if "Somaliland" were like "Puntland" I would have no problems with it. If were an autonomous region inside of Somalia, no problemo. I relize that, that's not exactly vanilla icing on chocolate cake for pro "Somalilanders", but that's were I stand. Mujaahid Lixle walaal I don't prefer the SYL over the SNL, or vice versa. They are both equal in my eyes, because they were both fighting for Somali dignity and independence. The only reason I didn't post a picture about the SNL is because I couldn't find one with all of them in it, but if you would like to give me link to a picture about the SNL, I would very much appreciate it. :cool:

I demand explainations as to why they were not even submitted? What was not submitted, Angel Dust :confused: