Atleast Kenya is on the open now, but how can we be sure that they're not influencing the Somali peace process more than Ethiopia? Illaahayow nacaawai.

On behalf of the Somali delegates attending the Somali National Reconciliation Conference and as representatives of the Somali people at large and also as signatories of all the agreements so far reached, we would like to take this opportunity to inform both the local and International media, that the Conference has now entered its third phase with effect from 16th September, 2003, after all the delegates have adopted the Somali National Charter which will form the basis for the transitional federal government in the next four years. Therefore we would like to request Somali public and the international community: 1. To Support the historic break through which the Conference at Mbagathi has reached. 2. To advise the few individuals who opposed this historic achievement not to be given the opportunity to derail the talks, which the Somali people fully support. This is in line with the accepted democratic principles. 3. Finally, we would like to point out to the international community that the statements made by Mr. Abdiqassim were made in his personal capacity and do not necessarily represent that of the Somali people since his term of office has officially ended on 12 August, 2003. 1. Abdullahi Yusuf Ahmed - President of Puntland 2. Hasan Abshir Farah - Prime Minister (TNG) 3. Abdalla Deerow ***** - Chairman (TNA) 4. Mahamed Omar Habeeb - Regional Administration Jowhar 5. Hussein Mohamed Aideed - SNA/SRRC 6. Hassan Mohamed Nur - RRA/SRRC 7. Sheikh Adan Madoobe - RRA/SRRC 8. Abdullahi Sheikh Ismail - SSNM/Biram 9. Abdulaziz Sheikh Yusuf - SSNM/SRRC 10. Hilowle Imam Omar - SRRC Chairman 11. Hasan Abdulle Qalaad - Hiran Administration 12. Moulid Ma’aane - SAMO/ASAL 13. Mohamed Qanyare Afrah - USC 14. Mohamud Sayid Adan - SNF/SRRC 15. Mohamed Adan Wayeel - SPM Chairman 16. Mohamed Ismaan Maye - SANU 17. Sharif Saalah - Civil Society 18. Mohamed Said Hersi (Morgan) - SRRC/SPM 19. Ahmed Nur Mohamed (Laxos) - SPM/SRRC 20. Mohamed Diriye Elmi (Deputy) - USC/SNA 21. Col. Deeq Abbi Hassan - GV Secretary General 22. Abdulkadir Abdi Hasan Bebe - USC/SSA 23. Omar Mohamed Mohamud - USC/SSA 24. Abdirazak **** Bihi - SNF

Cabdi qasim and JVA supports exculsively hail from either cabdiqasim's trige or late siyad barre's tribe. What if I were to tell you that dispite being expelled from my place of birth by Abdiqasim's clan, that I still support him and not the JVA, which is ran by my clansmen? If I'm still a qabiilist to you Grinov, then brother you have a very funny way of defining qabiilism. I on the other hand denounce ALL warlords, and am very happy for the peace and prosperity of the PEOPLE(puntland and somalia north). Were you not just a while ago blaming and insulting those same PEOPLE of removing your late mentor? And were you not just a while ago blaming and insulting those same PEOPLE of being behind the destruction and anarchy of Somalia? Your main agenda alludes me Grinov, but I would just want to tell you that I don't particularly like fakes.

Iam clean and don't support No warlord, love all somalis, regardless of their region It seems to me like you're very hypocritical of of your past statements, dear Grinov. Who is talking about supporting anybody? Didn't I already mention that it was because of the project itself that I posted that article in the first place? I welcome criticism, when it's legitimate. Since you are so fond of indirectly labeling me as a "qabiilist", would you care to tell me and the dear nomads of this forum how and why you came to that conclusion?

Recognise "Somaliland" and a can of worm opens By Ahmed Dowlo In his missive with the title “Somaliland has case for independence” Jean-Jacques Cornish was not mindful of the detrimental social and political consequences of supporting what he termed in his own words “the cardinal sin of secession”. Just for the information of the unsuspecting South African masses who may get confused the terms of Somalia vs Somaliland let me clarify that “Somaliland”; is a region of the northwest Somalia, which declared itself “independent” in 1991, which UN, OAU, Arab League, IGAD, NAM, and all other international organisations which Somalia belong to refused to recognise. Without presenting concrete facts Mr. Cornish has got him self into a political disarray in which he has very limited knowledge. It seems that Mr. Cornish who first visited in that part of Africa in last April has since then authorised himself as a full-time campaigner for Somaliland recognition (Somaliland: Hope in the Horn of Africa, Mail & Guardian Apr 30 2003). Without doubt, he unleashed very controversial issue that South Africa’s Department of Foreign Affairs has commissioned a report concluding the onus rested on the international community to “recognise” this breakaway Somali region. “It is undeniable that Somaliland does indeed qualify for statehood, and it is incumbent upon the international community to recognise it” reads the report which comes at a time when Somali factions are meeting under the auspices of the Inter-Governmental Authority on Development (IGAD) with the aim of establishing all-inclusive Somali government in Kenya. If this is the case; i.e. recognition for each African province viable for statehood, then South Africa will soon have whole list of candidates. The Western Sahara, the Southern Sudan, the Ogaden and Oromo regions of Ethiopia, Caprivi of Namibia, the disputed Bakassi peninsula between Cameroon and Nigeria, to name but a few, would have all preferred autonomy and believe they have been incorporated into foreign states. Whether or not South Africa can spearhead such a costly political adventure is a question open for discussion. However, one can only wonder how can President Mbeki’s peacemaking in Africa and NEPAD initiatives move forward and rebuild Africa if it calls for the balkanisation of the Republic of Somalia? South Africa is at forefront of the African Renaissance program. She is brokering many peace plans in the continent. The Inter-Congolese Dialogue sponsored by SA was good portent SA commitment to peacemaking in Africa. The former President Nelson Mandela’s endeavor with the blessing of the government, to mediate the warring factions in Burundi is also acknowledgeable. By doing so, South Africa, which adopted quiet diplomacy over its northern border (Zimbabwe) to show its disinterest of intervening other African states’ domestic politics will pretty soon realise that by giving statehood status to Somaliland will be akin to reintroducing apartheid bantustans through the back door. The SA law makers and advisors who are quoted in the report know that this goes against the spirit, soul, word, and deed of the ANC. Many people believe that words were put into their mouths. Professor Abdi Samatar of the University of Minnesota recentl! y noted that if Somaliland is recognised as a sovereign country, then it is highly likely that Puntland, and other sectarian elites in other regions will demand similar treatment. This will result in at least five tribal fiefdoms emerging from Somalia. Mr. Cornish was right to highlight the AU predecessor; the OAU who feared that if colonial boundaries were not respected it would lead to endless intra-state wars. The reason was simple. Colonial rulers established nearly all-present borders of African countries and often drawn them on latitude and longitude lines rather than the interest of the communities concerned or geographical features. They often cut across ethnic groups, causing modern border conflicts and refugee problems. Somalia is a classical example of that mess. Many believe that the rebirth of the name "Somaliland," more than four decades after the hard earned self-determination and the reunification of Somali people, is an imprudent sanc! tioning of the arbitrary land and people's separations inflicted upon Africa by the European colonists. How else can one explain the slapdash borders drawn up to separate Somalis into British Somaliland, French Somaliland (Djibouti), Ethiopian Somaliland (Ogaden), Kenyan Somaliland (NFD) and Italian Somaliland? The nation of Somalia was formed in July 1960 when the British protectorate and the Italian trust were joined and the rest of the Somali people were abandoned in Ethiopia, Djibouti, and Kenya. The merger of South and North “Somaliland and Somalia” had been a voluntary unification and an endeavor from both sides in which the three remaining Somali territories would also ultimately be incorporated The civilian administration that assumed power after independence became hopelessly alienated and incompetent. In 1969 the army commander, General Mohamed Siad Barre, seized power in a bloodless coup and the country had descended into military state which was effectively administered by the army and its satellite branches like: Nabad Sug! ida [sic] (Security Services) Hangash (military intelligence), the Dhabarjebinta [sic] (military counter-intelligence) et al. Yes, “Somaliland” has suffered from the totalitarian government based in Mogadishu, but does Mr. Cornish aware of that Mr. Dahir Riyale Kahin whom he referred as ‘democratically elected president” was head of the much feared and powerful Siad Barre’s National Security Service (NSS) in Berbera “Somaliland”? Is he aware of that he was listed by human right groups a prime suspect of most of extra-judicial killings that occurred the city he calls now the capital city of “Somaliland”; Hargaisa? (See the book: A Government at War With Its Own People: Testimonies About the Killings and the Conflict in the North, published in New York in January 1990 by Rakiya A. Omaar) If “Somaliland” had suffered ‘genocidal union with Somalia’ as report wants us to believe, what about apartheid? Why it did not result two parallel South Africas; one white and other black? Where is the role of forgiving and reconcilia tion? It is common knowledge that the African borders are coming more and more under pressure. An important question is whether the present clientelistic state model will remain capable to protect the territorial status quo as defined by the OAU during the decolonisation era or will the crisis of the post-colonial state also lead to the dismantlement of some existing states? Since Mr. Cornish does not address this issue holistically, his promotion of “Somaliland” comes off as suspicious and the good news is that the “Somaliland” lobby who abuse the SA national broadcaster and media at large is not the decision makers at the Department of Foreign Affairs. Finally, no one can deny that the southern part of Somalia is a scene of awesome devastation for the past 12 years, while the northern part “Somaliland” has achieved remarkable accomplishments such as security, but does that justify secession from the rest of the country? If so, Mr. Cornish, the Western! Cape (SA province) will be ideal for self-independence because unlike Gauteng it has lower crime rate and excels in education. Ahmed Dowlo E-mail: dawlo@hotmail.com Somali Association of South Africa Johannesburg Recognise "Somaliland" and a can of worm opens

Haaruun funny but smart nomad. Was the first nomad whose post I first read when I came to Somaliaonline. Doesn't post a lot, but has something good to say when he does.

Simply ignorant is what I dismiss the latter post of the dear nomad Grinov. Bro you have accused me and accused me, but you have never backed up your accusations so they were all and is now being dismissed as simply ignorant. I don't understand how a person who supported the murders and horrific acts against humanity of fellow Somalis and Muslims can now accuse someone of hypocrisy, when they are being patriotic? I love my Somalia to the fullest, and the reason why I posted that article was the tenacity of the project and the scope of the meaning of it. Read quotes below; Defying Somalia's lawless image, a militia has disarmed 1,202 gunmen in a move that could spur the international community to help the failed state demobilise more of its fighters "It's a positive move by Somalis themselves with no outside help," Similar projects are run with varying degrees of success by U.N. agencies in other parts of Somalia but none apart from the JVA's is financed purely by Somalis. If this project was heralded by Riyaale Kaahin I wouldn't have been any less happier. If this project was heralded by Cabdulahi Yusuf I wouldn't have been any less happier. If this project was heralded by Mawliid Macane I wouldn't have been any less happier. It is not the heralder of the project, but the project itself that brings pride to my heart. We are finally taking the initiative! Be proud my boy! Grinov please don't be so quick to dismiss people's contributions, on your assumptions :rolleyes:

NAIROBI, Sept 3 (Reuters) - Defying Somalia's lawless image, a militia has disarmed 1,202 gunmen in a move that could spur the international community to help the failed state demobilise more of its fighters, a human rights expert said on Wednesday. "It's a positive move by Somalis themselves with no outside help," the expert, Ghanim Alnajar, told reporters, adding the Juba Valley Alliance militia paid for the operation itself. "I think this initiative by the JVA will also encourage the U.N. to come forward and put more money and investment into this," said Alnajar, an independent expert on Somalia who reports to the U.N. High Commissioner for Human Rights. Alnajar said most of those disarmed were "freelance" gunmen who had been roaming the streets of the JVA-controlled southern port town of Kismayo, and did not belong to the JVA's own ranks. For handing in their guns they were paid $50 a month and housed in cantonment camps where they were interviewed and selected for possible training in farming, fishing or integration into the JVA's own police force. The JVA was financing the payments out of its port operations, mainly the export of charcoal, Alnajar said. The JVA's own militia and police are unaffected by the programme. Similar projects are run with varying degrees of success by U.N. agencies in other parts of Somalia but none apart from the JVA's is financed purely by Somalis. Somali analysts say the JVA's programme was made possible by the local dominance of one clan, the Marehan, meaning arrests were unlikely to spark potentially violent inter-clan disputes. Alnajar, who was returning from a 10-day trip to Somalia, said such a programme would be very difficult in Mogadishu, the capital, which is ruled by a patchwork of clan leaders. Somalia collapsed into chaos in 1991 after the ousting of former dictator Mohamed Siad Barre. Peace talks have failed to agree on a successor administration to a transitional national government (TNG) whose three-year mandate expired last month. An effort at removing gunmen from Mogadishu's streets was attempted by the TNG in 2000 but quickly collapsed.

NAIROBI, 2 Sep 2003 (IRIN) - The Juba Valley Alliance (JVA), which controls the port town of Kismayo, southern Somalia, has launched a security operation aimed at clearing guns from the town's streets. "The operation has a dual purpose," JVA spokesman Abdirahman Haji Waldirah told IRIN on Tuesday. "To encamp all the JVA militias and then identify and arrest the freelance gunmen who have been the major cause of insecurity in the town." "We have put all JVA forces in four camps to keep them out of the town. Anyone carrying a gun outside of these camps will be treated as a criminal," he said. "So far we have removed 1,374 guns from the streets and arrested over 47 suspects on various charges," he added. The operation which was launched last month "went into top gear in the last week or so", a local humanitarian source told IRIN. "I hope they sustain it. Kismayo has been experiencing an increase in insecurity in the last few months. Since the start of this operation there has been a marked improvement in the security situation of the town." Abdilatif Hashi, a Kismayo businessman, told IRIN that the townspeople welcomed the JVA's action, but added that the operation must be sustained. "They have undertaken similar operations in the past which later fizzled out," he noted. "They must keep up the pressure and not allow the gangs to return." Waldirah told IRIN there was "no turning back". "This will continue until Kismayo is safe," he stressed. He added that the Alliance had, for the first time since it captured the town in 1999, started collecting taxes. "If people want security and other services they have to pay for it, and paying taxes is the way," he stressed. He said the JVA would expand its anti-crime operation to remove militia checkpoints "which litter the Kismayo-Mogadishu road". The 500 km road had become very dangerous of late, with increased banditry and extortion of travellers by militiamen manning the checkpoints, he said.

The international community and the Inter-Governmental Authority on Development (Igad) have been urged to take tough measures against Somalia warlords if the ongoing peace initiative to succeed. Somalia presidential candidate, Al Haj Mohamed Yassin, said the activities of the warlords should be curtailed if any progress is to be made in the peace process . "As we resume the reconciliation process, there is need for the stakeholders to act tough on the warlords as there will be contentious issues like power-sharing, which will be discussed," he said. Yassin was speaking during a Press conference in Nairobi yesterday. He said despite the two previous peace initiatives being marred by a lot of problems, they had made some achievements. "But there is no way the leaders of the warring factions can be reconciled if they are allowed to operate as they wish and continue amassing wealth and weapons back home," Yassin said. The 52-year-old businessman called for the active involvement of Somalia's tribal leaders in the peace talks, saying the group was neglected in previous meetings despite being the key to the efforts. He said the traditional leaders should be the ones to select individuals for the transitional parliament and not faction leaders. "The warlords are benefiting from the ongoing war and they will not allow the power-sharing initiative," said Yassin. He said Somalia citizens wanted peace but were being "held at ransom" by the warlords.

i died when i read this! Message 5 To: Nin Yaaban Ninyaaban Goes to Community section, he finds no pictures,he goes this is not Dhaqan,and he pms the Admin, where are the community pictures please dont play with dhaqan and bring the pictures back

Come on Somali folks you're making a big deal out of this. People are heading to assumptions! South Africa has said nothing about recognizing any part of Somalia! People are jumping to these conclusions, because it allowed Egal (ilaahay ha u naxariisto) to visit there for medical reasons. It was after that, that all these misleading media articles came out. Besides it's not like The Republic of South Africa has the power nor the will to go against the U.N. :rolleyes:

Truly not a good idea Entre. At the time of age we're in, you will be called anything but a liberator. Terrorist, rebel, murderer, butcher, and guerrilla are a sampling of the names you will be called, but a freedom-fighter is definitely not among that group. Once again I stress diplomacy. Unless you're the Great Satan and have the resources to invade without thinking, diplomacy is the way to go.

I think a lot of females would disagree with you imperial-lady. Are you speaking from experience? Barwaaqo, huh another attack on the male species intelligence

Entrepreneur first I would like to welcome you back to Politics section. Welcome. They say that if the heart is strong, the mind will follow; and when the mind is in league with the heart, you can do anything you put your mind to it. A Somali Republic comprised of all our regions is not utopic, if your heart is with it and your mind acknowledges it. My knowledge of the NFD is not that great, but I know that it is the lowest in every sector of Kenyan society,i.e health, education, economy, etc. At least in this moment I don't think independence as a sovereign state is a very good idea, it might even be disastrous. Should it seek self-determination? Of course! Enjoin into a greater Somalia? Of course! Is self determination going to be easy? Absolutely not! Kenya is one of the West's most longest-standing allies in the African continent. It will try to stop self-determination by saying that if the Somalis are let go, Kenya as a state will virtually disintegrat for practical reasons. Kikuya and the various other ethnic groups will try to seperate, thereby making Kenya a non-existent country. It will have every support in everyway. Self-determination is not going to be easy. I want to let our Somali brethren from Kenya know that we know what kind of predicament they're in and inshallah a future Somali Republic will make sure they're not in the dark. There situation will be known to the world. The reason why the Kenyans treat the Somali siju like that should be obvious why the NFD should not be part of Kenya. They don't consider the Somalis as Kenyans, because the Somali is like a cat in a house of dogs, or a goat in a house of sheeps! The various ethnicities of Kenya look alike, speak Bantu languages, and have similar pagan cultures. What about this Somali, Muslim, Cushite, with his mixed physical features? They have an inferiority complex when it comes to us, and they're trying to sate it by the treatment they give our people in their country. Allah, subxanawatacala, does not forget those who don't forget Him. Ilaahay, swt, is watching, I hope our Somali brethren in Kenya don't lose patience for the day will come when they are free!

Darbaaxo no sis! The more candidates there are, the less chance that a warlord takes reigns, and the more confidence Somalis in general have of this conference. Ayoub understand you bro.

Lucky and Flying_Still don't get too upset, since our dear old pal Og decided to come back with an attitude. Couldn't stay away huh Og?

BBC News Hundreds of refugees demonstrated outside the venue in Mbagathi, in the suburbs of the Kenyan capital, Nairobi, calling for the formation of a new government. Last week, the talks were adjourned to allow the president of Somalia's Transitional National Government (TNG), Abdikassim Salat Hassan and the Juba valley alliance re-join the discussions. According to the United Nations regional information network, IRIN, the Kenyan envoy to Somalia, Muhammad Abdi Affey, who met Mr Salat last week, said he would consider the possibility of returning to peace talks. Consultations "The president told me that he would consult his parliament and cabinet before making any decisions," said Mr Affey. Last month, Mr Salat walked out of the peace talks in Kenya, saying they were leading towards the "dismemberment" of Somalia. The refugees, who had travelled to Mbagathi in a convoy of minibuses and saloon cars, blocked the main entrance, of the venue demanding an audience with the chief mediator of the talks, Bethuel Kiplagat. The protesting refugees argued that they have been living in abject poverty in Kenya, following a decade-long civil war. Since last October, peace talks, which were expected to end two months ago, have made little headway with delegates disagreeing on the number of members of parliament to be chosen. The mandate of the three-year old Transitional National Government (TNG) expired on last Wednesday and Mr Salat announced that his government would not stand down until a new government and parliament were formed. His prime minister, whom he sacked earlier last week, accused Mr Salat of trying to destroy the peace process, in order to prolong his stay in office.

Salad F. Duhul • Special to Arab News JEDDAH, 19 August 2003 — Although the three-year mandate of Somalia’s Transitional National Government (TNG) expired on Aug. 12, it has indicated that it will not step down. TNG Information Minister Abdirahman Adan Ibbi told reporters last week that his administration will stay in power until a new government is elected. The TNG President Abdi Qassim Salad, who walked out of the Somali peace talks in Kenya two weeks ago, accused the organizers of the peace talks of favoring the dismemberment of Somalia. President Salad convened a session of parliament at the weekend in which votes of no-confidence were expressed in the TNG prime minister, Hassan Abshir Farah, and the speaker of parliament, Abdallah Derow Issak. Both men were the TNG chief negotiators at talks, which brought together representatives from more than twenty warring Somali parties. The participants of the talks are drafting a federal constitution for Somalia, a overture to choosing members of parliament that will elect the next president. Many Somalis say a major concern is whether the TNG president will give up his post. They view the TNG remaining in power could worsen the reconciliation process and could also add a new dimension to Somalia’s twelve years of anarchy. In fact, the TNG was formed in neighboring Djibouti in 2000 by Somali clan leaders and civil society groups. Many Somalis expected miracles from the new administration. They eagerly await the government’s first steps toward pacification and reconciliation. There must be talks with the opposition aimed at accepting the central authority; the nearly-dead economy must be revived and thousands of militias loyal to clan warlords must be disarmed. But what has the TNG achieved in the last three years? President Salad said in his inaugural address that his first job would be to talk to his opponents. The TNG has not made any meaningful contacts with the warlords and its opponents still control most of Somalia, its territory and resources. The TNG has failed to exert its control over the capital city. On the other hand, some entrepreneurs in Mogadishu have taken advantage of the non-functioning banking network. These individuals, who were supporters of the TNG, imported counterfeit Somali shillings in early 2001. The TNG bought imported counterfeit notes valued at $3 million. The end result was that the Somali shilling fell from 8000 to the dollar to 24,000. “Donations of millions of dollars by friends of Somalia to the TNG have been misappropriated. We demand accountability for that money,” said a statement issued by a local Somali Human Rights non-governmental organization. The NGO claimed that TNG had received $24 million from Arab countries and millions more from other sources. Some commentators believe that these entrepreneurs have been undermining the peace process as they finance and support the warlords. The businessmen have taken advantage of the non-functioning government and have avoided paying taxes or legal dues. They have no desire to see a new national government, regarding it as a threat to their lucrative existence. In fact, the International Community has allowed the TNG to occupy long-vacant Somali seats in such international and regional forums as the UN, OAU, Arab League, Organization of Islamic Conference (OIC) and many other bodies. The Somali people do not only want a government to represent them internationally. They need a lasting peace, genuine reconciliation and effective central administration. A Somali poet once said, “If firewood becomes cold, who will warm it? If medicine becomes sick, who will cure it?” He was referring to a government that had failed to fulfill its duties. Can we read the poem in the present context of Somalia?

I have to say that I agree with Diamond-princess and Lucky. Saying ingnorant stuff like that doesn't cut it here in our SOL la_familia.

Baraaqo I thought so sis. Flying-still sis there is nothing wrong with sensitivity, I was trying to be funny.

Well done Samurai! The act of union I have always been interested about: The decision to form a union was reached at a conference of Northern and Southern Somali leaders held in Mogadishu between April 16 and 22, 1960. A joint communiqué issued at the end of the conference announced it had been agreed that the two territories would be united on July 1, 1960; the new Somali Republic would be unitary, democratic and parliamentary State; the legislative bodies of the two territories would be merged into a National Assembly which would be set up 'in order to investigate and propose convenient solutions to the problems connected with the administrative, financial and judicial systems now in force in the two Territories'; the United Nations would be asked 'to supply experts who may help in accelerating the integration of the two Territories'. … On June 27, the day after independence, Somaliland's legislative Assembly passed 'The Union of Somaliland and Somalia Law,' incorporating the proposed Act of Union previously sent to Mogadishu. Section 1(a) stated that 'The State of Somaliland and the State of Somalia do hereby unite and shall forever remain united in a new, independent, democratic, unitary republic the name of which shall be the SOMALI REPUBLIC.

New-Nation bro/sis thank you also for your advice, but if there was a second act of union that "Somaliland" did not agree to, then it may just have the case for seccession! And if a debate about the union of Somalia is irrelevant to you, than I am not sorry to say that I disagree with you wholeheartedly. They say if you do not know about your past, then you can not go into the future. best wishes to you

Zaylici Although your advice, directed at me I assume, is unneeded, I thank you for your insight. Oodweyn I am to this day waiting for that second act of union that the proctectorate of British Somaliland signed. I'm still curious about it.

Long time no see cousin