quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- but when they fail, as they always have to the present, they always run and try to save face. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Firstly that they fail is the fault of somalis, and the part about saving face is your own very subjective view. quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I don't think they are really interested in making the valient efforts and diplomatic compromises it takes to bring about such a peace, they just want to be their and be recognized for it in case it happens. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- djibouti is a facilitator the people that are expected to make "valiant efforts" are somalis them selves and what does diplomatic comprimises have to do with it, djibouti is not a warring faction neither is it involved in somali politics to the extent that ethiopia is. Lander correct me if i am wrong but the only reason that you have chosen to pick on little ol labba-hunno djibouti is that all the peace talks that it has sponserd and the ones it will sponser is based on the dictum of a somalia united. If on the other hand you said that this is the major reason why the peace talks have faled , then at least it would have been a more ...honest argument. In the words of the ol time poets kalasaar ruun iyo been Another asset to Somaliweyne. And an energetic one too. :cool:

Kampala SOMALI leaders are excited that President Yoweri Museveni will help speed up the restoration of peace in their country, reports Henry Mukasa. Museveni, who took over the Intergovernmental Authority on Development (IGAD)chair last week, is the new facilitator of Somali peace talks. Dr Yusuf Omar Al Azhani, a member of the leaders committee at the Nairobi peace talks, said, "He (Museveni) is experienced. He is a hero. We are going to take the process that Uganda took so that our country is re-established." Omar, also the legal adviser to the president of Puntland state, together with Lt. Gen. Mohammed Said Hersi Morgan, Mowlid Maan Mohamoud and Abdalla derow **** were addressing a press conference at Hotel Equitoria in Kampala on Saturday. They were part of the delegation that attended the ministerial council that heralded the IGAD summit. Morgan is the chairman of the leaders committee at the Somali talks in Kenya. **** is its speaker and Mowlid is the chairman of the Somali Africans Muki Organisation (SAMO). The Somali peace process has completed two stages so far, the cessation of hostilities protocol signed on October 27, 2002 and the nomination of reconciliation committees mid last month. The 820 delegates meeting in Kenya are now grappling with the most delicate stage of selection of MPs, election of the chairman of the national assembly and a president of a government of national unity. Somalia has not had an internationally recognised government since dictator Siad Barre was overthrown in 1991. The country's interim president, Abdulkassim Salat Hassan, who is recognised by IGAD and attended the summit in Kampala last week stormed out of the talks recently, protesting IGAD involvement. But the delegates want IGAD heads of state to woo him back to the peace table. "Somalis have suffered a lot. We are peace loving people and want to come back to the fold of IGAD as a responsible government," Omar said. New Vision:

I gather you are able to read french? But what about those of us who don't.

I'm sorry to say but i don't think they're all that good :rolleyes: I know how we Somalis get blinded when it is anything that has to do with Somali people, but truth hurts. If they want to make it big, they need alot of help. besides they don't evoke anything worthy of pride to me, seeing as how certain things are.

KAMPALA: East African heads of state from the seven-member Intergovernmental Authority on Development (IGAD) announced plans to kick-start stalled reconciliation talks for Somalia. The measures were unveiled at the end of a one-day IGAD summit in Kampala, where Somalia's barely recognised interim president, Abdulkassim Salat Hassan, reiterated his rejection of the Nairobi-based talks with their current format and venue. "The summit has decided to expand the technical committee now renamed the facilitation committee on the Somali Peace Process to include (all member states of IGAD)," said a communique read out by Ugandan Foreign Minister James Wapakhabulo. IGAD comprises the governments of Djibouti, Ethiopia, Eritrea, Kenya, Sudan and Uganda. Somalia, which has no universally recognised government, is nominally also a member state. Until now, the technical committee mediating the Somali talks only included so-called frontline states: Kenya, Ethiopia and, until it walked out of the talks this month, Djibouti. The new, more inclusive technical committee is scheduled to meet at ministerial level in Nairobi on October 28. The summit asked the African Union (AU) to assist IGAD in the Somali reconciliation process. It also called on AU Chairman Joachim Chissano, the president of Mozambique, to help in an increasingly tense impasse in the peace process betweeen Ethiopia and Eritrea. At the end of two years of devastating war, the neighbouring Horn of Africa states agreed in a peace accord signed in December 2000 to give a neutral commission responsibility for deciding the precise path of their common frontier and to respect this commission's ruling as final and binding. But Ethiopia has rejected the commission's decision and as a result the crucual process of physically marking out the border has been repeatedly delayed amid increasingly terse pronouncements from Ethiopia and Eritrea. Also discussed by the IGAD summiteers -- presidents Mwai Kibaki of Kenya, Omar al-Beshir of Sudan, Yoweri Museveni of Uganda and Ethiopian Prime Minister Meles Zenawi -- were issues related to terrorism and the flow into the region of illicit arms. Djibouti and Eritrea were represented by their foreign ministers. - AFP - AFP

From the article. Interior Minister Ishmail Aden Osman blamed the killings on "other Somalis". The BBC reporter says this means anyone who is not one of the clans originally from Somaliland is likely to be expelled. code: Well there you have it folks, "Somaliland" as a clan entity is hidden no more, everything is out in the open.

I for one suppoert the peace process, because the alternative is no hope. I too bro. If there is no hope, then what else should there be?

Very interesting article concerning that general Boykin

Why do folks always use Farax and Xaliimo? Isn't Maxamed and Faduumo more accurate?

living in a city where Shuun might be somebody's actual name looooooool A good friend of mine who hails from Boorama is actually named that.

That author is an embarassment to all Somalis in my humble opinion. How can a crime be distinguished on one's nationality, or supposed nationality? Whether a Somali commited it or a "Somalilander" commited, it makes no difference. A crime is a crime and these last two murders of Annalena and these two couples is a particularly tragic and embarassing crime for all Somalis! Allah (SWT) said: “That whoever kills a single soul for other than a soul (killed) or for corruption in the earth, it is as though he had killed all of humanity together, and whoever saves the life of a single soul, it is though he had saved the life of all humanity together.” (al-Ma’Ida 5:32)

I occupy exactly where the slot of Pope John Paul II occupies.

Mr. Ismail confirmed that HornAfrik was instrumental in calling back the two leaders from the Peace Process, while NationLink paid US$36, 000 towards the formation of the Balad Alliance. Who truly believes that this article has a drop of credibility in it? :rolleyes:

For the first time, we have an American administration that talks of "de-Arabising" the Middle East - the ultimate Perleian dream of Arab nations governed by clones of Ahmed Chalabi, their bazaars buried under shopping malls and Arab hospitality (not good for business) replaced by western corporate ethics. The ultimate goal for for the Americans, isn't it? Nice job Smith.

I vote for a tripartite agreement with Muqdisho as executive capital, Hargeisa as legislative, and Galkacyo as judicial.

Meridian your point is understood sis, but I think you overlooked a couple of details. First today's Habesha's are the descendents of the now extinct black semites known as Sabeans. That is why Amharic, Tigrinya, and other languages are classed semitic. The Sabeans, being black semites, were much different then Arabs in terms of physical features, language (Geez) and etc. Ethiopian semitic languages, although having the same grammitical structures of the Semitic chain, sound (phyrange?) and are pronounced alot like the languages of the khoisan people of South Africa. Second our (Somali's) Arabianess is not one of evolution, but one of inter-marriage. Meaning our language doesn't have to be semitic for us to have Arab blood. Personally I believe Somali is a semitic language and am waiting for linguists to place it as such, but we share the same pronunciation and phyrange (sp?) with our Arab part-forefathers and their brethern the Hebrew language.

Do any of you guys know where I can listen this song online? Haybad waxaad ku leedahay dhulkaaga hooyo, waana lama huraanee hagar li'i wax ugu qabo

thanx

NAIROBI, 15 Oct 2003 (IRIN) - Relations between Djibouti and the self-declared republic of Somaliland, northwestern Somalia, are set to improve following a three-day visit to Djibouti by the Somaliland president, Dahir Riyale Kahin. Abdillahi Muhammad Duale, Somaliland's Information Minister, told IRIN on Wednesday that the "Riyale administration has been extremely busy strengthening relations with neighbouring states, and this trip is part of that". Kahin, who is accompanied by four cabinet ministers and a number of members of parliament, is in Djibouti "at the invitation of the government", Duale added. Meanwhile, a Djibouti official told IRIN the two sides discussed bilateral issues particularly, economic cooperation. "We discussed ways of improving trade ties and exploring areas of further cooperation," he noted. The sides also discussed "how best to bring closer the two brotherly peoples", added the official. A more comprehensive meeting is scheduled to take place on Thursday, after which a statement will be issued. Kahin's trip to Djibouti is his second since he assumed the Somaliland presidency in May 2002 after the death of Muhammad Ibrahim Egal. Relations between the two sides soured following Djibouti's hosting of the Somali peace talks, which led to the establishment of the Transitional National Government (TNG), and Djibouti's continued support for it. The Somaliland administration boycotted the Arta talks, accusing Djibouti of interfering in Somalia's internal affairs. However, a regional analyst told IRIN on Wednesday that Djibouti "will most likely continue to support the TNG and Somali unity in general, and will not compromise on this". The people on both sides of the border were one and the same, he said, so they "had to take advantage of this kind of opportunity to eventually solve their differences and find areas of common understanding". [ENDS]

COuld you possibly be fadumo farah baaziin?

I thought this excerpt from a posted thesis that I read might be interesting, seeing as how it gives hope to a future Greater Somalia. If the exact documents of the colonial period were found, do you think we would have a chance to contest our lands in a court?. code: SECTION III - THE OTHER COUNTRIES OF THE HORN This section completes the stage setting for the conflicts by presenting the histories of the other countries on the Horn. Somalia The British became interested in the Somali coast because of the fate of shipwrecks. It seems that whenever a ship had the misfortune to shipwreck on their coast, the Somalis murdered the crews and stole the cargos. In 1825, the British began to make treaties with the Somalis to protect future shipwrecks. The British interests expanded in 1839 when Aden was established, and again in 1869, when the Suez Canal opened.(76) When the Madhists became active in the Sudan, Egypt withdrew many of its garrisons on the Horn and the British felt compelled to take their place. In 1884, the British sent diplomatic notes to the Turks asking them to occupy the areas vacated by Egypt. When no action was taken by the Turks, , the British occupied the port of Zeila. They made more treaties with the Somalis and in 1887, declared a protectorate.(77) THE HORN OF AFRICA These treaties were worded so that the British would protect the Somalis from other powers and did not include any loss of Somali rights to the lands . In other words, the British did not receive actual title to the Somali lands . This technicality would become important in the eyes of the Somalis in regards to the later treaties between the British and the Ethiopians.( 78) Two other reasons for Somali willingness to make the treaties were the similarity of the treaties to the Somali "dia" alliances and the Somali perception of increasing threats from the Ethiopian highlands.(79) The Italian interest in the Somali coast was based on trade possibilities that became evident in the 1880's. With the help of the British in 1889, the Italians received rights from the Sultan of Zanzibar to towns in the Benadir region. The Italians established a company to rule and expand this holding. The company failed and a new one was formed to take its place. This one faced criticism for the use of forced labor and the Italian government took direct control of the area in 1905.(80) The Europeans made agreements among themselves in 1888 and 1894, which set up their common borders on the Horn of Africa. However, the shocking defeat of the Italians at Adowa caused them all to rush to Addis Ababa for negotiations. British goals on the Horn, as given to British Special Envoy Rennell Rodd, were to: secure supplies for the more important port at Aden; keep the Somali protectorate as self sufficient as possible; obtain Ethiopian aid against the Madhists; and clearly define the borders between the two, if possible, in such a way as to seal off any possible French moves towards the headwaters of the Nile.(81) After many rounds of negotiation, Rodd produced an agreement (see Map 12). To obtain Ethiopian approval, he gave them the most fertile lands of the west and grazing lands of the south. This was done without the knowledge or notification of the Somalis.(82) It was also technically illegal because the Somali chiefs had never ceded any of their lands to the British .(83) Click here to view image THE HORN OF AFRICA The Italians were next to negotiate with Menelik. Like the British, they came away from the negotiations with the impression of having scored a coup in that they had gained a lot without giving up much. Like the British, they too, learned that Menelik's interpretations, and more importantly, his actions based on the agreements, were to prove the opposite. The treaty with Italy to define the border between Italian Somaliland and Ethiopia was vague. As part of the treaty, there were two copies of an inaccurate map that had a border drawn on it. The Italians claimed it ran 180 miles inland from a point of contact with the British in the north to the lands on the Juba in the south. Menelik said the line was closer to the coast. As both maps were lost, no one knows which was right. The Italians returned for several border renegotiations. In 1908, they paid three million lire for both a clear definition of the border and a joint border commission to mark it. By 1911, this commission marked out only 30 kilometers from Kenya before it was unable to agree on the 1908 treaty.(85) The British East India Company had held the port of Kismayu and its sur - roundings, known as Jubaland, since 1891 . The Somali migrations to the south made any peaceful administration of the area impossible. Frequent attacks, punitive expeditions and other armed actions resulted in the British government taking over the area directly in 1895. The British then fought hostile Somalis and sometimes, slave raids from the Ethiopians. British efforts stopped the migratory advance of the Somalis at the Tana River. Tiring of the constant war in the area and involved in World War I, they ceded parts of Jubaland to Italy in exchange for future support against Germany. The actual transfer took place in 1925.(86) The fact that only a part of the Somali inhabited land was given to Italy was a basis for a later Somali conflict as the remaining area became part of Kenya and is considered one of the three "lost territories ." During the 1920's the Italians attempted to expand their territory inland by arming the Somalis and encouraging them to attack Ethiopian tax collectors. The Ethiopians responded by sending larger and more frequent expeditions into the areas. They also began to curry favor with some Somali tribes by providing arms and encouraging raids on the Italians.(90) Both efforts often spilled over into the British protectorate and caused the British to press for a clear definition of the border. They convinced the Ethiopians that a joint border demarcation should be accomplished and began the process in 1929. This upset the nomadic Somalis who feared restrictions would be imposed on their migrations. Britain reassured them by pointing out the provisions of their Ethiopian treaty which allowed free access to traditional grazing lands by those on both sides of the border. The joint commission that had marked the borders was also responsible for defining the grazing limits of the British Somali tribes and they slowly proceeded to find them.(91) In 1934, the joint commission and their Ethiopian military escort reached Wal Wal and found Italian-led Somali forces there. Italians had been at Wal Wal over four years without an Ethiopian protest despite the border being 100 kilometers or more to the east. When Italian planes buzzed the Ethiopian camp, the British part of the commission withdrew in protest. Both sides reinforced their positions and a battle broke out that involved Italian aircraft and tanks and resulted in several hundred killed and wounded. This incident triggered the sucessful Italian invasion of Ethiopia.(92) The next several years saw the growth of Somali nationalism as the Italians consolidated the Somali parts of their new empire into one unit. They added British Somaliland to that total when they threw out the British in 1940. When the British returned to the Horn and defeated the Italians, the British added the Somali parts of Kenya to form a unified Somali area. They developed the Bevin Plan which was to form a unified Somalia, under their trusteeship, out of all the Somali occupied parts of the Horn. The plan was naturally very popular with the Somalis and very unpopular with Haile Selassie, who was attempting to claim both the Red Sea and the Indian Ocean coasts. The plan also seemed to be an attempt by the British to maintain their empire on the Horn . The Bevin plan failed. The British then tried to trade the port of Zeila and the construction of a rail line to connect it to Ethiopia, for the Ogaden. The French, knowing that their port at Djibouti would suffer from competition, used their rights under a 1906 agreement to kill the trade. The British later tried unsuccess- fully, to buy the territory from Ethiopia.(93) The British had encouraged the Somalis in their nationalism and formed the Somali Youth Club (SYC) which eventually had 25,000 clubs in operation. SYC changed into a political form called the Somali Youth League (SYL). SYL had Somali independence as its goal. It helped to get the Italian Somaliland issue to the UN, where a 10 year trusteeship was decided.(94) A SYL flag caused an incident in Jijiga as the British returned the Ogaden: It had been run up to give offence to the Ethiopians and was in fact illegal. As the leaders refused to pull down their flag, the police brought it down with a machine gun mounted on an armoured car. Disturbances followed, during which a policeman was killed and another wounded by the explosion of a hand grenade thrown from the roof of the SYL headquarters. The police opened fire on the crowd, killing twenty-five of them . . . (95) The SYL was outlawed in Ethiopia and Kenya. Some of its leaders were also jailed when the Italians established trusteeship. It became the major party and controlled the Somali government in Italian Somaliland. Political parties didn't fire well in British Somali land until 1954, when the British returned the Haud to Ethiopia. The Somali backlash against the British stimulated politics and expanded the parties. In April, 1960, the British agreed to an end of their rule. On 1 July 1960, the two former colonies became Somalia. (96) Greater Somalia was incorporated into the Somali consttution. The preamble states that "the Somali Republic promotes by legal and peaceful means, the union of the Somali territories." (97) Nonpeaceful means also became evident as conflict began over the Northern Frontier District (NFD) in Kenya and the Ogaden in Ethiopia. The Somalis knew that they might need armed forces to meet their goal of having a Greater Somalia and tried to obtain them from Western countries. No one was interested in supplying the quantities of arms that Somalia requested as the amounts were greater than those necessary for defense. As the US was supporting Ethiopia, the Soviet Union saw a possible opportunity to upset the balance on the Horn. Shortly after 1960, it agreed to provide $52 million in aid.(98) The Soviets agreed to train and equip a 10,000-man force which was twice the size that any of the western powers was willing to train. (99) In the former NFD of Kenya, a large part of the population was Somali (about 240,000). Somalia tried negotiation with the British in order to have them detach the NFD from Kenya prior to granting Kenya its independence. The British sent teams to survey the population and found that almost all of the Oromo and Somali wanted to join Somalia. However, the British reasoned that a federal type government would protect the rights of both the Somalis and the Oromos and allowed the NFD to remain a part of Kenya. In 1964, just after independence Kenya adopted a centralized, and not a federal constitution. A guerrilla war, called the "shifta war," which Kenya said was supported by the Somalis using Soviet weapons, broke out and lasted four years. In 1964, Kenya also signed a mutual defense treaty with Ethiopia directed at Somalia. This pact was later renewed with the current government of Ethiopia.(101)

I'm gonna have to use that in a religious debate.

Walahi this just makes you think how trivial our lives really are. Naxdin.

The author is subvert anarchist. I would flick all the rubish with the flick of my hand, if I could. This cracked me up for a while But when the US and the UN tried to impose statehood on the Somalis in 1993, they successfully defended their newly won freedom

Ta kale let me just clarify this for you Somalinimo isnt a quality xumaan lagu qiimeeyo or the degree of hate you have towards Somaliland(a very narrow defination if I may add here).It should rather be defined as a how much you love and appreciate Somalis regardless of race,religion and political conviction and above all wanting the best for all Somalis from every where.To me thats truely Somalinimo. Gediid brother you are a very respectable nomad and that's why I gree with you on most of your points. I don't think it's on the interest of the forum to insult another nomad and if you see the description I gave of the both I, in no way, stated that being for Somalinimo is being against "Somaliland". I ment they are for Somalinimo, while being against "Somaliland".