Originally posted by NGONGE: ^^ Xaggad eegto ba, Somaliland baa ku hor taagan. Ma Samatar ba, Ma Faarax Macalin baa, Ma ONLF, ma holhol? War maca Yehuuda la dhix galiyaay sheekada SL. Ma ila maleenaysa ino president Riyaale falka wax ka yaqaan? A&T, watch out saaxib. Xiin is malfunctioning, iminko odhanaya A&T waa Ayoub (the SOL nomad and not the SL qolo - though both would serve the exact purpose here). My, how much has Ngonge's Somali improved.

Originally posted by Abtigiis & Tusbax: I must say Faarax's seemingly pro-secession position of Somaliland is not all bad news. It may go long way in bridging the unfortunate misunderstanding and resultant enemity between the ONLF community and Somalilanders. In that respect, it is a very positive development. The silver lining in this, I mean. It must also be stated that not making his political views known about this matter is entirely his prerogative and does not amount to being anti-somalia. However, I personally feel Faarax may be into this issue out of pure business calculations. Of late, there is talk he is keen to amass wealth. It is embarrassing to witness the extent to which you kowtow. What logic is one group to become favorable to another on the basis of a reevaluation of legal state issues of which the positions of clans is irrelevant? Particularly when this individual is a working representative of a foreign entity? The government of Kenya has every right to prosecute the issue if a member of that government has intruded on and even harmed the policy positions of that said government. Because the issue is a foreign policy issue, the foreign minister has every right to get involved and understanding the political state of Kenya and the position of Mr. Dawaro, I doubt this is without the knowledge and approval from the highest Kenyan leadership.

Maxamed Cali Samatar is only guilty of safeguarding the sovereignty and territorial integrity of his nation. Let Siilaanyo be tried before him to answer for the alleged SNM bombardment of civilian quarters in an attempt to bring civilians against the government as well as the premeditated campaign against civil servants and refugees of the 1977 war targeted solely on the basis of clan membership.

Neither Arab League nor Israel are concerned with Somaliland.

Originally posted by Peacenow: Cause the Maryooleey are good people. Unlike the somalis, Maryooley = Somali-wide pet name for Somalis by Somalis irrespective of region. Peacenow is not a Somali.

Originally posted by Libaax-Sankataabte: quote:Originally posted by Che -Guevara: Unlikely allies,now I have seen it all maybe not all but dam. Hopefully their rush to defend is privily not based on the claim that Samatar's clan is originally from Israel. Good one. It is an unusual setting, one in which pro-Israel activists are siding with the Saudi government — which has also filed a brief on behalf of Samantar — Interesting.

I have reached the stage where I say, with all of the passion and interest I hold for it, to cease reflecting on and following Somali politics. The quagmire is too rooted, the future too bleak, and the present too stagnant to continue to dwell on and continue to grasp on to what I have infamously termed over the years in this message board as the "hope in the unseen". In the final scheme of things, it is logical for me to conclude Somalia has no future in the form of statehood in the near future. As such it is pointless to continue to remark on actions of folly and government attempts of comedic nature. Al Shabaab will expand, this I believe, and the whole nation and the reach of the Somali-speaking lands will be affected by the ideology that has risen to power in the last couple years. It is, then, entirely plausible the nation might undergo some sort of intervention but in the present circumstance, the stagnation is too rooted and the near future holds no change of course. The TFG is dead and Shareef has gone the way of his civil war predeccessors. A new TFG has only to follow the course of those before it. Somalia has no future in its own current course; the trajectory is very much set against any deliverance. Never have I felt more hopeless for that beleaguered nation of ours. With these last remarks, I bid you all a new year.

Adeer faanka badan adigay wax kaa dhintaa so ma ogid? Long live Puntland but it is nowhere near bright or great. It is a small part of Somalia that has chosen peace and because that they should be applauded. The physical circumstance in the state are as they are anywhere else in Somalia. Competing on meeting with UN food donors is a travesty and reflective of our general downfall. You hear? With that said, in 2009 do you not think you should join the civilized world? What makes you inherently more able to lead on account of a mythical ancestor?

You are masking a deformity and an insecurity awoowe. I am content leading and as well as following my compatriots when it is my turn. Plus Puntland Bari region is bigger than all those areas combined Kuuma diidani adeer ee ku qanac.

Guriceel iyo Galmudug are my compatriots. I see no harm if I wait on them. You do because of your tribal insecurities.

Adeer you are protesting too much.

just like it did JVA Talk about seeing the wolves everywhere.

^Kolkaa adigu ma badbaadi? Nabee Hargeisa ayaa ku xigi doonto.

Dhalaanoow, arrintu waa arrin iska cad.

Well the central regions are in their hands so they have a responsibility over the land. It is really a dilemma. In terms of grassroots activism, they are something to admire but their close relationship with the Ethiopian government begs a lot to be desired.

Duke anigu war kama doonto.

If there was any doubt, the attack in Garowe has settled it. Gudoomiyaha Baarlamaanka ee Puntland oo caawa fiidkii ka bad baaday qarax lagula eegtay magaalada Garoowe. Shabelle: GAROOWE Gudoomiyaha Baarlamaanka ee Puntland ayaa caawa fiidkii waxa uu ka bad baaday qarax lagula eegtay magaalada Garoowe ee xarunta maamul goboleedka Puntland. Wararka naga soo gaaraya magaalada Garoowe ee caasimada maamul goboleedka Puntland ayaa waxa ay sheegayaan in caaw fiidkii qarax Miino oo sababay qasaaro uu ka badbaaday gudoomiyaha Baarlamaanka ee maamulka Puntland C/rashiid Maxamed Xirsi. Qaraxa oo la sheegay in uu ahaa miinada dhulka lagu aaso lagana hago Rumuud Kontaroolka ayaa waxaa lala eegtay Gaari uu watay gudoomiyaha Baarlamaanka xilli uu ku wajahnaa gurigiisa sida ay sheegayaan ilo ku dhow dhow gudoomiyaha Baarlamaanka. Inta la ogyaha 1-askari ayaa ku geeryooday mid kalana waa uu ku dhaawacmay qaraxaasi miino, waxaana goobta uu qaraxu ka dhacay markiiba soo gaaray Ciidamo Katirsan kuwa amaanka ee maamul goboleedka Puntland kuwaasi oo markiiba rasaas ku kala eryay dadkii ku suganaa agagaarka uu qaraxu ka dhacay. Macada ilaa iyo hadda qasaaraha dhabta ah ee ka dhashay qaraxaasi marka laga reebo Askari geeryooday iyo midka dhaawacmay , waxaana uu qaraxani qeyb kayahay qaraxyo iyo dilal xiriir ah oo maalmihii ugu danbeeyay ka dhacayay deeganada maamul goboleedka Puntland. Aqriso oo la soco Shabelle.net Saacad Walba si aad u hesho wararkii ugu dambeeyay ee Soomaaliya. Dhageyso wararka 7:00-Fiidnimo Habeen walba adigoo raacaya tilmaamaha Wabseydka. Fadlan wixii Qalad ah Nala Soo xariir radioshabelle@ymail.com

Poor you sxb, employing highly symbolic and decorative words such as "legislative" and "executive" with respect to Somalia's transitional government! And no, I am not at all worried about the TFG. As an institution, I am apathetic to it considering I have no hope in it. If I had hope, it was long dashed by the kind of leadership displayed by those propped up in its highest echelons. I merely wished to relay why your argument is not compatible with both the reality on the ground nor the strategic perceptions the entity you support should be giving off. Moving the parliament is a retardation from what it should be pursuing, namely a legitimate government governing from the central capital city of which it is already situated in. As for your last comment, I will merely dismiss it as a red herring although I do wish to inform you Caabudwaaq already serves as the headquarters of the armed Ahlu Sunnah movement; the same movement the president of the TFG outraged by labeling them "clannish forces". alshabaabs influence is not overstated. It’s real. It’s global as well. For Somalia, talk of terrorism is not a political tool to gain support from the west, as you seem to imply. It’s real. Look no further from what happened couple weeks back in Mogadishu. The consensus is Al Shabaab is not a threat globally and the world is not as interested as long as the problem is "contained", which it is for now at least. This is why it is not first rate priority and why the present TFG does not have the necessary and imminent support it did, say, during the time of its formation in Djibouti.

Originally posted by xiinfaniin: Actually you are the one missing the point of this thread, injecting silly observations of yours that is neither here nor there. Mogadishu is important but pacifying it will take time and to say that the only way this government’s measured is to gauge whether it tames this global movement is a defeatist talk. Also political legitimacy is not wholly contingent up on Mogadishu awoowe. That is the old way of thinking. Mogadishu is not the city it once was and many Somalis do not live in there any more. To the contrary if TFG can show that it can operate outside of Mogadishu that it self will garner legitimacy and support from the places it matter. Although I realize that it is not politically feasible now to do what this parliamentarian is calling for, I would have appreciated it if it were actually done. Developing an air of patronization misleads you into wrongly judging the impact you are having awoowe. There is nothing "silly" about my observation and you should appreciate why I chose not to expand on it. I believe it sums up mightily why you debase the argument for a national government by pandering to or supporting at least in so far as tribal objectives are fulfilled or are synonymous with the existence of such an entity. I disagree fully with you arguing the TFG would be more legitimized by operating outside of Mogadishu. The TFG does not need to be legitimized anymore then it already has. What more legitimacy does it need? What more legitimacy does the Somali government which has garnered the most amount of legitimacy since the overthrow of Siad Barre need? This government needs to show something for its legitimacy and moving away outside of its priority area zone, namely the city of Mogadishu, delegitimizes it. Anyone who does not realize this does not have the interest of national government at heart and this where honesty becomes the issue. Are you for a Somali government or are you for your tribal area? By moving away and arguing in favor of such a development, one needs to understand the only legitimacy that will be garnered will fall squarely on the area the entity moves to temporarily and not the entity itself. I will personally sit here before you and say if the TFG moves away, the powers that be will have written it off completely. That is if it is able to move without their blessing at all. The powers that be are already disappointed and have no hope in the institution of the TFG under its present leadership as capable of advancing the cause of Somali national government in Somalia. The only point that makes the present TFG bearable is it still fulfills the face of the "other" in the spatial warfare that is designed against the armed Islamist movements and containing this spatial warfare within the city of Mogadishu, the most important prize in the whole civil war, keeps legitimacy bestowed no matter how far it might have receded after the TFG under Sharif was exposed for what it is, worthless and ineffective. A move away from the spatial importance of Mogadishu delegitimizes the movement you claim to support entirely. Save the "global movement" talk. Somalia is no longer a priority for first-rate counterterrorism primarily because Al Shabaab's influence is overstated. A movement that rules the southern side is not capable of overrunning a force of 4,000 AU peace-keepers. Militarily there is no more fear of Al Shabaab from the West. As long as the policy of containment is achieved, the powers that be will continue to find ways to pit Al Shabaab against the Somali people while pointing to a spatial dominance of Mogadishu as fruits of that endeavor. Puntland and other part of Somalia are irrelevant to this central strategy. You are a pawn in the game awoowe, you are not the game.

Originally posted by General Duke: Mogadishu is not sacred I don't know when Gabal came in but as usual added nothing new. I am afraid Mogadishu is sacred my friend. It is time for you to stop viewing this is as tribal competition and admit the reality. Mogadishu is 5X more important the whole of Puntland, Somaliland, Jubbaland, and whatever else is out there. A central entity that presides over Mogadishu can impose its will on Boosaaso but an enity from Boosaaso will never be able to impose its will on Mogadishu. This is the reality whether you dig your head in the ground or not. Instead of viewing this from tribally tinted lenses, wipe your heart free of enmity and view that old capital of ours as much yours as anyone elses'.

It is a harmless observation Xiin, put your defensive cloak down. Also you are missing the point. It does not matter whether it is Ceelwaaq, Jawhar, Kismaayo or anywhere else. Legitimacy solely rests on what this government achieves politically and militarily with respect to Mogadishu. That old city on the Benadir coast is the key to the whole puzzle, everything else is obsolete. It is irrelevant whether that Parliament can sit peacefully in Baydhabo or Boosaaso for a hundred years. This government is now in Mogadishu, let it pacify it and clean it up. Any step away from that position is plain and simply failure, it retards the whole process.

Not feasible and highly dishonest to even mention it. The legitimacy of any Somali government rests on taking control of Mogadishu. Moving thousands of kilometers away from the golden nugget does nothing to strengthen or legitimize this government. It just makes it even more irrelevant. Unless one has given up hope of TFG political victory and now wishes to legitimize their own tribal entity before the whole venture is discarded. In which case, the issue revolves around "honesty".

Here is my nearest Mosque here in the U.S. Maybe Layzie should lodge a complaint with the courts to ban the minaret. I would like to see if she gets past the clerks.

It is called doing damage control. After all, France's own committee in charge of the campaign to ban the Burka now says it will recommend not to ban it as it will intrude on "freedom of religion" Before it was; Bowen, who is preparing expert testimony for the French parliamentary committee considering the burqa ban, believes the Islamic clothing debate is a "symbol" of a larger goal. France's goal, which Bowen describes as a "state project," is secularist and concerned with, he says, "trying not to be taken over by what they would call an Islamist ideology." Source Now it is: France will issue recommendations against full face veils but not pass a law barring Muslim women from wearing them, a leading backer of a legal ban said on Friday. Source As for the Swiss and the banning of the minarets, it is more then apparent the banning intrudes on the freedom of religon clause and will have to be struck down but I think two questions will ultimately have to be arrived at and both bode well for the Muslim communities in Europe. The first question is should basic freedoms and basic principles be put up for popular referendums? Granted Switzerland is a special case and any issue can be put up for referendum if a certain number of signatories are found but this specific campaign itself seems to be leading to changes in the Swiss law. I watched an interview in which the recent head of what is their supreme court explained there is a hole in the rule of law in Switzerland in which nationally, the Parliament runs above the powers of the Supreme Court and not parallel to it and such a situation needs to be reformed. For example, in the present system the Supreme Court can strike down a Canton's (federal state) referendum but not the national parliament's. If such a change takes place, basic principles for Muslims shall be cemented as they are in such places as the U.K and the U.S. Also this is a good lesson for the rest of Europe who now understand, fully, that their societies are at where the American public was at during and prior to the fight for civil rights. Successive American governments forcefully maneuvered their citizens to be the plural society they are today. Imagine if Abraham Lincoln had put up the issue of slavery up for "referendum". Would slaves have been freed? Lyndon Johnson lost the south for the Democratic party to this day when he maneuvered the civil rights laws with his own political muscles. He said as he signed the civil rights bill "I have lost the south for my party". Today in 2009, the case is true but without that bill, the president of the Union would not be a black man. The second issue will have to be how to ally local fears and concerns. Embracing the idea of multiculturalism and pluralism on the national level is a perhaps the important first step, but how can such an idea be implemented without local support? For the past couple decades, European governments have tried to emulate the pluralism of the United States but without preparing their people for such a signifanct socio-politico change. They forget America is itself an immigrant nation and the idea of indigenous culture and sense of entitlement and notion of ownership is and was nonexistent. Europe is not America and to get to where it is at, it needs its own model. This means drafting better policies on not only integrating its immigrant population better but as well as changing their own people to reflect the multiculturalism they seek and need in this globalizing world.

Originally posted by Xaji_Xunjuf: quote:Originally posted by Jacaylbaro: when the engineer, architect, doctor, habar, ciyaal, middleman, pimp and everyone talks about politics ......... Riyaale ba qaadku ku ibin jiray Hargeysa xafada cabaaye, Marku qaadlihi madaxweyne noqday Dakhtarki na iyo engineerki na jaahil noqdeen tallow ma ana walaan mise cabaaya laga heeseyaa