I wonder what is the difference between the settlers who were coming into mogadishu in their thousands during the golden days of siyad barre from far regions such as gedo and somaligalbeed. So, according to your person, the only immigrants to the city of Muqdisho during the 21 year rule of Siyaad Barre (alaha ha u naxariisto) were from Gedo? :confused: Are you forgetting that Muqdisho ceased to be a city of 20,000 people during the 70's when it's population was over a million souls? Mise you are alleging that 980,000 Gedonians (do they reach this size?) immigrated to Muqdisho! Yaabku Yaabkiis.

^^Don't you get irritated with self-righteous people?

Somalia: UN welcomes investigation into staff member’s murder 7 October 2005 – The United Nations has welcomed the prompt efforts of the Somali authorities, including the regional Juba Valley Alliance (JVA), to investigate the murder earlier this week of a UN security official in southern Somalia. “The killers must be apprehended and action taken against them, and we encourage the JVA and the people of Kismayo to do just that.†UN Resident/Humanitarian Coordinator Maxwell Gaylard said yesterday of the shooting death of Mohamuud Musse Gurage in Kismayo on Monday. Mr. Gaylard stressed that the UN mandate is to support the Somali people in their development and peacebuilding efforts and that UN staff need to be safe to carry out their duties in the Horn of Africa country, which has been without a functioning central government since the collapse of President Muhammad Siad Barre’s regime in 1991. “This murder is an outrage against all that the UN stands for, and an act of cowardice against a defenceless UN worker,†he said. “It is particularly unfortunate that this should happen at a time when Somalis are at last beginning to move towards peace and reconciliation with the support of the international community and the recent UN re-engagement in Kismayo.†UN News Center

UN official killing probed Mogadishu - A faction controlling part of the southern Somalia has formed a panel to probe this week's killing of a United Nations security officer, say officials on Thursday. Mohamuud Musse Gurageli, 42, a local UN field security co-ordinating assistant, was slain on Monday night by unidentified gunmen in Lower Juba region, about 500km south of the capital, Mogadishu. Initially, militia said Gurageli, a Somalia national, was a victim of a botched kidnap attempt. The leader of Juba Valley Alliance (JVA) that controls Lower Juba region, Barre Aden Shire Hirale, said: "We have appointed five people with credible knowledge about investigations and we rely on their expertise to tell us who are the killers." Relations with global community Hirale said: "The killing of the UN staff member in Kismayo is unacceptable and those who carried the barbaric action shall be brought to book. "The killing of Gurageli undermined the credibility of JVA, the people of Kismayo and spoils our relations with the international community." After the incident in the relatively peaceful region, UN pulled 12 of its staff from the region to other parts of Somalia. In February 2004, Somali gunmen kidnapped German UN field security officer, Rolf Helmrich, in the same region, but released him after 10 days. Clan militia in Somalia had used kidnapping as a means of generating income since dictator Mohamed Siad Barre was toppled in January 1991, plunging the Horn of Africa nation into an anarchy from which it was yet to fully emerge. News24

^^It did look like you were attacking the nomad, but anyways the apology is for him so let me get out the way.

Maybe you guys are being too hard on the brotha? His intentions were good, his course of action can be better, but don't attack him for it. :eek:

What specific things have you noticed that lead you to question him sxb? I know plenty of Somalis that cannot stand Somalia, because of the horrors they suffered in the civil war. Some of them have even denounced the religion and all who come down under simply because the people who were involved in the civil war against them claimed to be muslims. I have always dismissed it as a result of strong cases of Post-Traumatic Stress Syndrome. Maybe what he needs is a good shrink like someone mentioned.

^^^Maybe his saying he has been interested in a certain girl from those families and didn't mean to make it so generalized?

^^Waagacusubna goormaad baratay? Expanding of horizonz eh; I applaud it. Seriously though I read the article and I can only describe it as negative, subjective, partisan, and extremely biased. All things deemed unsavory in the journalistic world. Out of all the non-"Somaliland" websites and even of the Mogadishu affiliated ones, waxaad waagacusub u dooratay yaa la yaabanahay. :cool:

^^I don't think I accused you of anything sxb. :confused: I was just making a point that Gedonet was probably right and they did turn out right didn't they?

^^Have a good Ramadan too sxb.

^^How original. I had never thought the integrity of the forum would reach this low. Surprise, surprise.

As usual the Somali media is running with the news. There are five tiknikos accompanying ministers and parliamentarians and waxaa lagu dhawaaqayaa ciidan baa dhinac raacay! BTW Wind, I've never known Gedonet to lie. Call me partisan or not, one can they have exaggerated in the past, but they have never falsified information sxb.

^^What makes sense now? The ganging-up and gang-banging buu isku qalday, so he still ment to use one of them right?

Tolstoy, tolstoy, tolstoy! Why don't you just come out and say Wind is getting the better of you? Sarcasm aside, his points are quite legitimate and the fact they make a baffonry out of your arguments must be what irks you. Every once in a while we need a dose of reality, do we not?

I say, the puzzle is finally coming together, finally. Alla maxaa farxad iyo reerayn lagu jidhaa! Suldaanka, how long do you estimate before formal recognition is forwarded to Hargeisa?

^^There are statements in there that are quite partisan, yes, but I though it was interesting how the president/prime minister were chastised for their inaction, the warlord's facade blown away, and the Shariif exposed for being attention-seeking. What do you think about these? Largely through miscalculations and short-sightedness, the Somali government missed out on many opportunities to improve their image and articulate their policies. Moreover, unable or unwilling to acknowledge their weaknesses and shortcomings, the president and the prime minister bear a large share of the blame For almost a year we are still waiting the president and the prime minister to address the nation and put forward a clear political agenda for the nation.

If we wouldn't have frienldy opposition like the one of Juma, Suldanka and Sister Rahima not to forget "olol" ofcourse still ain't go a clue if he's a man or woman, everything in here would become predictable and boring. How could you forget Raqiid in your friendly opposition? And I didn’t think that WT was part of the ganging-up group, that special status is reserved for others [Wink] . Didn't you like how Wind's name was slightly brought up as a culprit?

Miskiin never mind. You are choosing to sidestep my points or dismiss them all together as if it is not research I have done on the area. I, however, would like to address some of your points. I am bringing this because in bizarreness you brought the Sawaaxili and Mushunguli languages now. This fact speaks laudly you are novice when it comes to this region (and you claim to hail from some parts of Gedo? [big Grin] ) Shaqsi ahaan I am from Xamar, but cid-ahaan (as close as father and mother) our camels graze in the Wardheer Region of northeastern Ethiopia. I never pretended to be from Gedo, though I do have more family members there then any other part of the horn. As for bringing Swahili and Mushunguli, I ment that af-Baraawe is a Bantu-classification language sister tongue to Swahili and the various groups in the federation such as Wagosha and Goobabweyn are Mushunguli speakers. You are saying that (plz excuse this clan name) that the Digle-Mirifle is not a federation, a grouping, done without respect to a common language nor common heritage? Perhaps my problem was I had not realized that you were debating about Af-Maay speakers (not exclusive to a clan) and not the Digle-Mirifle people as a unified entity! First, now, going back to the subject of af Maay. First of all, I believe, firmly, af Maay is a dialect of af Soomaali, just as the other sister dialect being af Maxaa Tiri. Maay’s relationship to af Oromo today is perceived to be close because af Maxaa Tiri lost a substantial number of words, substituted in by other foreign words borrowed from other languages, mainly Carabi, Ingiriis and Talyaani. Af Maxaa Tiri itself were at one time as close to Oromo as to Maay; however, losing much of its original words made it a distant to af Oromo, Soomaali's closest cousin language. The position of what relationship the Cushitic language speakers have in common to each other and to the rest of the Afro-Asiatic speakers is not definite even to famed linguists who have been studying them for decades. The theory that has always been taken for granted was that Somali is part of a "Cushitic" sub-family and is most closest to Oromo and Afar. For the better part of the last decade, the postion of some famed linguists was to abolish the "Cushitic" sub-language family and make each of the languages under it a seperate wing of Afro-Asiatic. It is that misleading! The linguists have said that the languages are not as closely thought and that because of "similarities" accumulated through geographical proximity, the languages of the "Cushitic" sub-family have been given a false sense of being related. Meaning that Somali and Oromo are not from the same origin but have become to resemble each other somewhat due to proximity, and as languages such as Jiido, Tunni, and others are much more closer to Oromo then Somali, their origins lies with the Somali's neighbors. Those same linguists cite Af-Maxaa tidhi (standard Somali) and Af-Maay as being unintelligible to each other as Spanish and Portuguese. The Cushitic theory is being left behind. With that in hand, and while you are insisting some clans descending from an unproven mythical originality, how can they "Soomaalinize" others if their very Soomaalinimo insecurity is apparent. Miskiin, as the topic of the thread dealt with bring points up about history, I am merely delving into the debate. I do not mean to insult, nor to demean, neither to be ignorant. The questions and points I bring up are only to understand more about Somalia itself and as you are the best person to educate and exchange debate with me on these matters, I am just taking advantage of the situation. I want to learn more about the people, I really do, along with getting my questions and confusion about the people answered. Despite what you might think, I honestly want to thank you for standing up to the situation and challenging me head on (cyper style!).

^^Not really. The least we can say is Good for Somaliland for showing Somalis the way to democratic governance. We really cannot take away the admiration you deserve.

Col. Barre Hiiraale oo si kadis ah ugu laabtay magaalada Kismaayo Kismaayo 04 Oct. ( Sh.M.Network) Wafdi uu hogaaminayo Gudoomiyaha isbaheysiga D/jubba ahna wasiirka dib u dejinta dowladda FS Col, Barre Aadan Shire Hiiraale ayaa maanta la dagay garoonka dayuuradaha ee magaalada Kismaayo, iyadoo halkaasi ay ku soo dhaweeyeen saraakiil sar sare oo ka tirsan isbaheysiga D/jubba. Wafdiga Barre Hiiraale oo uu ka mid yahay Bile Cabdulle Cabdi, Ugaas Ciise Ugaas Cabdulle, Ambassador Cabdi Shire Warsame iyo kuwo kale ayaa iminka ku sugan halkii loogu talo galay. Imaatinka Col. Barre Hiiraale ee magaalada Kismaayo oo lagu sheegay in ay tahay mid kadis ah ayaa la xiriirta sidii isbaheysiga D/jubba uu faahfaain uga bixin lahaa dilkii magaalada Kismaayo oo ay ka taliyaan loogu geeystay wakiilkii hay'adda UNDP U qaabilsanaa gobolka J/hoose Marxuum Huraabe oo xalay kooxo hubeysan ay ku toogteen gudaha magaaladaasi. Afhayeenka isbaheysiga D/juba oo qeybka ahaa wafdiga uu hogaaminayo Barre Hiiraale ayaa waxa uu ku tilmaamay falkaasi mid lagu xagal daacinayo howlaha hay'aduhu ay ka bilaabeen gobolka J/hoose, isagoo sheegay in aaska marxumka ka dib ay bilaabi doonaan wada hadalo ay la yeelan doonaan mas'uuliyiinta hay'adaha isla markaana ay uga dhaadhisin lahaayeen sidii howlahood ay u sii wadan lahaayeen. Waxa uu intaasi ku daray in ay ka shaqeynayaan sidii gacan ay ugu soo dhigi lahaayeen kuwii falkaasi geeystay isla markaana ay soo taagi doonaan cadaaladda. Imaatinka wafdiga Col. Barre Hiiraale Hiiraale ee magaalada Kismaayo ayaa waxa ay ku soo beegmatay xilli magaaladaasi hay'adaha samafalka ay isaga baxeen halkaasi ka dib markiii kooxo hubeysan ay toogteen. Farxaan Lafoole Shabelle Media Network, Kismaayo

Sarkaal sare oo u shaqeynayay Qaramada Midoobay oo xalay lagu dilay magaalada Kismaayo Talaado, October 04, 2005(HOL): Wararka naga soo gaaraya magaalada Kismaayo ee gobolka Jubada hoose ayaa sheegaya in sarkaal sare oo u shaqeynayay Qaramada Midoobay xalay lagu dilay magaaladaas, iyadoo dilkiisana ay ka dambeeyeen kooxo hubeysan. Ninkan la dilay oo isku ahaa wakiilkii Hay’adda UNDP ee gobollada Jubbooyinka iyo ku xigeenka dhinaca ammaanka ee hay’adaha Samafalka Qaramada Midoobay ayaa lagu magacaabi jiray Maxamuud Muuse Huraabe, waxaana dilkiisa fuliyay kooxo hubeysan oo wejiga soo qarsaday. Marxuum Maxamuud Muuse Huraabo ayaa markii la dilayay waxaa uu ku sii socday gurigiisa oo ku yaala xaafadda Calanleey ee magaalada Kismaayo, isagoo ka tegay sida la sheegay xafiiska Hay’adihii uu u shaqeynayay. Marxuumka oo lagu aasay Qabuuro ku yaala isla magaalada Kismaayo ayaa waxaa aaskiisa ka qeybgalay dadweyne aad u fara badan iyo mas'uuliyiinta maamulka Dooxada Jubba, kuwaasi oo aad uga naxay dilka loo geystay, iyadoo qaarkoodna ay marxuumka ku tilmaameen in uu ahaa qof jecel u samafalka dadka, iyagoo intaas raaciyay in ay aaminsan yihiin in sababtaas darteed loo dilay. Ilaa iyo haatan ma jirto cid war ka soo saartay dilka marxuumka haddii ay ahaan lahayd maamulka Dooxada Jubba ee ka taliya magaalada Kismaayo iyo weliba hay’adihii uu shaqeynayay, inkastoo la sheegayo in ciidamada booliska maamulka Isbaheysiga Dooxada Jubba ay baarayaan ciddii ka dambeysay dilka Marxuumka. Dilka loo geystay marxuumkan ayaa wuxuu sababay in uu maanta deg deg ugu laabto magaalada Kismaayo Guddoomiyaha Isbaheysiga Dooxada Jubba Xildhibaan Barre Aadan Shire Hiiraale oo maalmihii aynu ka soo gudubnay ku sugnaa magaalada Muqdisho, iyadoo uu isla maantana ka qeybgalay aaskii marxuumka. Dhanka kalena, waxaa maanta magaalada Kismaayo isaga baxay Hay’adihii Qaramada Midoobay u shaqeynayay sabab la xiriirta dilka loo geystay marxuumkan, iyadoo sidoo kalena qoraal ka soo baxay Qaramada Midoobay lagu cambaareeyay dilkaas. Salaad Iidow Xasan (Xiis), Hiiraan Online sxiis@hiiraan.com Mogadishu, Somalia

Tolstoy let's say you are quite an individual. The energy, the verbosity, maashaalah! For your own sake , I do surely hope the triangle that has affirmed its statehood does get the recognition it so desires. p.s. Why don't you come clean and just say you were worried about your beloved "state" before this election gave you the confidence you so reek now. This "affirmation of statehood" you are stuck on and your meaning of "no way jose, aint neva goin back!" speaks highly of your earlier self-doubt before seemingly being completely convinced about the secessionist state's political future on the current.

A Clueless Speaker, Callous Warlords, and a Confused Government The dust hardly settled when the critics of the government began to pick apart the fruits of the historic national reconciliation conference. Immediately a grand-design is hatched in Nairobi by the usual suspects, the warlords. They received a helping hand from an amalgamation of pseudointellectuals, a biased media, and the speaker of the parliament. Let me briefly discuss the role of each one of these co-conspirators. The Speaker of the Parliament When the warlords decided to derail the peace process they quickly found out that it is a daunting task to undo the progress made and therefore forged a collaboration with the speaker who for his unknown reasons decided to put the slowly moving wheels of national dialogue into a squeaking halt. When quislings are sought, quislings abound and in this cae the sharif showed up first. For the unsuspecting eye, this soft-spoken, smooth-talking, soothsaying, unassuming personality strikes you as “the enemy of none and the common friend of all.†But obviously there is more in him than meets the eye. Time and again we are tuned to the cliché-ridden, tired rhetoric of the Speaker. In the realm of real politics, he offered nothing of substance to the Somali people who are only lulled further into numbness by his repeated extolments regarding a bogeyman called Ethiopia. He is in violation of not only the letter of the interim constitution but certainly its spirit as well. His statements that Ethiopia is preying on us rings false and hollow in light of the self-mutilation that has been going in Somalia for the last 15 years. It is churlish to blame our self-inflicting wounds on our neighbors. For the orphaned children and the widowed mothers it doesn’t make a shard of difference whether the perpetrator is black or brown, Somali or non-Somali. As a matter of fact Somalis are today safer in Addis Ababa than in our beloved Capital (Mogadishu). Ethiopia and Somalia are neighbors and historically traditional enemies. Given the character of the Ethiopian regime, we are not fated to be friends. Yet we need not be enemies. The real enemies are the warlords who by their own actions caused an ocean of despair in Somalia. The speaker often repeats the mantra that Ethiopia is coming and the government has to relocate into the constitutional capital. He rehashes the relics of the past with no real platform, and is woefully out of step with today’s reality in Somalia. His arguments reeks of no restraint or nuance and is prone to sound exceedingly sure of himself. His banter is hilarious if not confounding and, even sometimes scary. When the president of Yemen used his good offices to breach the gap and reconcile the only two elected officials of the Somali government, the speaker first winked and noded and then decided otherwise. He asked the president to wring his hands and show remorse from his sins of asking foreign troops and relocating the capital. Maybe go a step further and flagellate himself. To everyone’s surprise the president accepted all the condition put forward by the Speaker which is itself uncharacteristic of president Yusuf. People mellow out as they get older, and so I think is Mr. Yusuf. However, instead of sitting with the President knee to knee and heart to heart to talk the issuse frankly and candidly, he decided to leave the country without even notifying his host and started going around, splitting up the parliament willy-nilly. The Warlords The Gedi administration, right from its controversial beginning, was squarely in the crosshairs of the warlords. Using cloak-and-dagger ploys, they left no stone unturned to undo all the progress made in Kenya. This franchise of a clueless Speaker and callous warlords are clear and present danger, and the foremost a threat to our nationhood and the stability of the country. Their selfish narrow inerest trumps everything else. They will kill and maim just to make few pennies from roadblocking. When all the sins are counted there must be a special place in hell reserved for these nasty piece of work. The mutability of their stand is only exceeded by the duplicity of their speeches. Most of the carnage inflicted on us by these monsters may eventually be forgotten, but the postcards from the grave should stand the test of time. Amazingly, they are still part of the government. They should have been out on their ears longtime ago. These warlords and their advocates are currently basking in a false glow of success in furthering their reputation of calling the shots in Somalia. Using their tried-and-true tactics, exploiting every weakness of the government, and extracting the maximum mileage from the confusion of the international community, this lunatic fringe are currently enjoying a gift worthy of hell when the UN Security Council refused the request from IGAD states to lift the army embargo in Somalia. In every occasion they play the Ethiopian card and play it with a vengeance because it is the only card left, with sympathy for their strident clan politics now at a low point. Rest assured, we are used to their hysteria and fortunately Somalis are now fully accustomed to the false public proclamations of the warlords. It is not difficult to square their deceitful tactics with the empty tone and content of their speeches. The Pseudo-Intellectualism and the Clan-based websites Since the inception of the Somali government it was at the receiving end of countless accusations from former politicians. These restless former politicians have a tendency to make their way to whatever watering hole they can find to quench their need for a political power. These political vagabonds are using a callow speaker without any discernible sense of history and nationhood to further their political and personal interest. Politicians who can deliver a jarring piece of wisdom is always welcome, but these armchair politicians are unnecessarily raising hackles and are heaping rancorous attacks on the president and the prime minister. Resorting to elementary mathematics suffices to refute the fallacy that underlies their condemnation of the president and the prime minister. They are congenitally incapable of proposing solutions and are just adding fuel into a bruing fire. Their arguments are based on pure animus for Mr. Yusuf and Mr. Gedi and not on the full range of the readily accessible facts. I am astounded by the fact that these pseudo-intellectuals can make vitriolic speeches and fail the occasional need expected from highly esteemed intellectuals and politicians to step beyond emotional assertions and merely state the facts. Blinded by false views of the present political situation, these self-certified do-gooders worsen the problems they endeavor to ameliorate. Too often they twist the facts to fit their personal agenda. They use the clan-based websites to relay their subjective drivel that spawns hatred and divisions. Never mind that Somali folks have less faith in a Somali news media with no valid reasons to be hate-filled and shrill. The Problems of the President and the Prime Minister To their admirers the president and the prime minister showed evidence of conviction, courage and authenticity, of rising above compromise, calculation and mere politics. However, their critics argue that commitment to hold undeviatingly to a line of action, regardless of circumstance or consequences, is foolish and dangerous. They argue that Mr. Yusuf’s militaristic approach is controversial in Somalia’s topsy-turvy world. "It is much safer to be feared than loved," wrote the philosopher Niccolo Machiavelli nearly 500 years ago. But even Machiavelli believed that intimidation has its limits. Just a few sentences after the famous passage quoted above, he cautioned: "Nevertheless a prince ought to inspire fear in such a way that, if he does not win love, he avoids hatred." Sometimes it may actually be safer to be loved than feared. Someone that took risks for peace might find unexpected rewards. Largely through miscalculations and short-sightedness, the Somali government missed out on many opportunities to improve their image and articulate their policies. Moreover, unable or unwilling to acknowledge their weaknesses and shortcomings, the president and the prime minister bear a large share of the blame for the degree to which the movement to fail them metastasized. The litany of accusations against the government may be groundless, but even false perceptions can lead to awful consequences. When that much dirt is thrown, it doesn’t take much to muddy the waters, especially when the target fails to defend itself. At the least, the president and the prime minister could have dampened speculations about Ethiopia and could have clearly stated their political program for the country. For almost a year we are still waiting the president and the prime minister to address the nation and put forward a clear political agenda for the nation. It might seem ludicrous to address as large and intractable a problem as Somalia’s through speeches, but often a simple sermon can help chisel away at the biggest problems. Conclusion The reconciliation process that costed tens of millions of dollars, involved hundreds of people, will ultimately came to naught if the current situation prevails. The Somali people are so overwhelmed by the daily rituals of life that they can barely think for themselves. The warlords gave them the dilemma of one alternative; follow us or the enemy clan will take over. Embracing these faulty causes they created bona fide heroes from a dearth of villains. I am not expecting that the warlords will suddenly square their shoulders and straighten their backs. But I hope that the speaker retraces his steps and godwilling return to the high road. If not, just beyond the horizon, there lurks a cloud that the winds will soon bring over us with the prospect of indeterminable losses of blood and treasure. And what a tragedy that will be. Abdiweli M Ali, Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Economics Department of Commerce College of Business Administration 312 Perboyre Hall Niagara University, NY 14109 Tel: 716-286-8179 amali@niagara.edu

^^You sure have a method to your nonesense I'm glad you noticed the method to my "nonesense".