Originally posted by Mr. Red Sea: quote:Originally posted by Jimcaale: You base your argument on women and children? That's buddy. The video shows not a single man protesting, just women and children and it's trasparent to everyone what their protest is based on. Did you get to see the Reuters reporter called adeer a 'warlord'? I think Rahima hit the nail right on the head. Kismaayo was not invaded. Abuu Mansuur put it well when he said the locals who left the city come back for it's Ramadan month. Assalamu calaykum, Jim, what is the secret buddy as to why you suddenly have become a big supporter of the ICU? I respect it if it's any other reason other than as the old saying goes "the enemy of my enemy, is my friend" they chased away the warlord who chased away your warlord, they are the good guys now right? Is that it,if not welcome aboard newbie. Horn, Arintu kawayn meelaha aad wax ka eegayso, bal kafiirso shiekh intaanad budhka laboodin. Kismayo wax, wax u tara ayey ubaahnayd, markaa saxib, Kismayo sida Muqdisho loo dhaqayo ayuunbaa ayana loola dhaqmi doonaa, wax kale ha uqaadan. Sometimes, you have to risk something important to you (assuming Barre Hiraale was a hero) in order to discover something better in its place(Kismayo, where rule of Allah prevails). F.Y.I.I am not siding with the new folks who have found interest all of sudden when things moved away from their region, therefore, I will justify this time only the comments of my dear Lad Hornafrique. thanks all, Salamu calaykum and Ramadan Kariim. *****aykuma Salaam too brother and Ramadan Kariim. Sxb, I support the Islamic initiative wholeheartedly and I am for ruling our people n our beautiful diin. I applaud and supported what the Islamic Courts had done in Mogadishu against the warlords who declared war on Islam and I continue to support that even as I write. What happened in Kismaayo, however, is an inside story that will soon be corrected and I do not put any blame on the Islamic Courts themselves but entities who have influence in it who acted on more clannish reasons then religious reasons and who actually benefited from the Islamic Courts in that Kismaayo was invaded with its name. Wa salam brother and remember I am always for xaq. Wadaadadaya dhib uma arko, weligey uma arkin, haantane uma arko.

Originally posted by Sophist: Horn, you were cheering for the courts before you have realised that they were going to take over Kismayo. Doesn't this tell us a thing or two why you are so vahemently against the movevemnt of justice and equality. Hiiraale was invader himself and he has brought with him his peeps from Galgaduud; it is just logical that they protest against the uprrooting of their adeer. Aloow umadaad u gargaar. Adeer dad sidey u joogaanbo sharkey iska bixiyaan. Waxa kali aad sxbkaa Xiin uga duwantahay waxaa weeye fursad bey tani kusiisey. Maxay ahayd waxaa tidhi? Subag iyo waxii kale maxay ahayd ha siiyaan "dumarka qaadka u banaanbaxaya". Nin rag ah ii dheh. Marna ma qaadbay u banaanbaxayaan, marna ma adeerkood? Ninyaho hal mawqif yeelo, laba kaclaynta kuguma haboona.

Originally posted by Northerner: quote: It was a tribal invasion in every sense of the word. But it was that the tribe in particular has no claim to Kismaayo and can never dream of capturing the city as a clan but found a very convienent excuse in the new Islamic movement in our homeland and was able to a degree divide their opponents themselves into the "misled religious" vs. "the aware". Hiiraale himself peacefully and temporarily left the city to avoid spilling his own clan's blood for the objectives of another. Time was needed to clear the misunderstandings and that time is now. In short, it is not will Barre be back, but when HA Now why would i be offended? So you believe that it had a clannish agenda and not one of controlling the south from possible deployment of AU troops with the added notion of Kismaayo being ruled by someone who serves the interests of the TFG (the opposition)? What are the aims of the ICU with regard Kismaayo? Do they not emphasise ‘self rule’ by the clan(s) that reside there and other areas of Somalia? Sorry to burden with so many questions this early in the day I don't believe sxb, I know it had a clannish agenda that used the Islamic Court entity and the overall Islamic movement to hide their ambitions from those that are out of the loop who are majority of Somalis I would say. Barre was never pro-Foreign troops and they themselves acknowledge that and gave him their utmost respect and gratitude for what he had done early in Gedo when some were championing Ethiopia as well as during the past year and half when he was courted by the American government as well as the Anti-Terror alliance who tried to bribe him for large amounts of dollars to hand over Sheikh Hassan Turki who was then living in Ras Kambooni as well as join that said alliance. Listen here starting at 6:50 to see what the courts themselves believed of Barre as well as read what the traditional head of Barre's clan in Kismaayo had to say about Hassan Turki being used to wage an unholy war on Barre; Hogaamiyaha Dhaqanka Beesha **** ee J/hoose Oo Shir Dhexdiisa Ku Canaantay Xasan-Turki in uu Lumiyay Abaalkii Ay Beesha **** U Gashay 4 Sanadod Oo La Doon Doonayay.. Nabadoon Maxamed Bashiir Madoobe Yaroow Hogaamiyaha Dhaqanka Beesha **** ee gobolka J/hoose ee Kismaayo ayaa u sheegay Xasan-Turki oo asagu ciidamada maxkamadaha ay axadii hore kismaayo qab****en in uu si fudud ku ilaaway abaalkii ay Beesha **** u gashay mudooyinkii uu ku dhuumanayay Raasganbooni ee la doon doonanayay .. Isagoo hadalkiisa sii wata ayuu nabadoonku Farta ku fiiqay Xasan turki oo uu ku eedeeyay in uu Duulaan ugu badalay beesha **** abaablki ay u gashay ee kaga badbaadisay tiro badan oo Kooxaha la dirara argagixisada ay ka dalbadeen in la soo qabto ama ay ku duulaan . "Waad ogtahay barre 10 jeer iyo ka badan ayaa loo keenay lacag oo lagu yiri Xasan keen isna waa diiday oo ku yiri halkaan argagxiso ma joogto adaa markhaati ka ah, " ayuu yiri nabadoonka loo sheegay in Beesha **** aysan marnaba ku talin doonin in Culimada soomalaiyeed ay ajnabi waxyeleeyaan. Nothing of the excuses matter. Wa waxaan afka baarkiis dhaafin ee loogu qurxinayo ummada Soomaaliyeed. Barre, however, is a trained colonel who knows very well the art of war and the politics that comes with it. He is not and was not of the uneducated mindless warlords of Mogadishu. No matter how misled your kind are, the whip should be saved for those who would love for a collosion to occur between two brothers. For example, as soon as the Courts capture a city, the first thing they had always done is build a maamul for their area of control. If this had been a real Court objective, that would have happened. However, the people who were behind the invasion of Kismaayo through the Courts are the ones who will benefit from the current anarchy and power-vacuum in Kismaayo. The control of the port, the airport, are all in the hands of those entities. An Islaamic administration had not been built and the maqaarsaar Turki has been told to go cris-crossing across Jubooyinka building maamul Islaami for villages while the third biggest city in Somalia and the prize around there is without an administration. What does that tell you?

Originally posted by Mansa Munsa: quote:Originally posted by HornAfrique: I'm sure even in Hiiraale's they were better off then Morgan's, no? .. My memory can go that far but after I delve into my archives and analyze the sequencial administrations' effects on the city and its people then I will be able posting what I think about the two. However, my intuitive feeling is elevating Hiiraale over Morgan [/QB]Well atleast you're honest this time.

Originally posted by Northerner: quote: I would be insulting you if I gave my own interpretation. I would advise you to call that city and found out on your own terms. No relos in Kismaayo i'm affraid. so go ahead, 'enlighten' me. ps you seem to have changed your tone a little in the past week or so It was a tribal invasion in every sense of the word. But it was that the tribe in particular has no claim to Kismaayo and can never dream of capturing the city as a clan but found a very convienent excuse in the new Islamic movement in our homeland and was able to a degree divide their opponents themselves into the "misled religious" vs. "the aware". Hiiraale himself peacefully and temporarily left the city to avoid spilling his own clan's blood for the objectives of another. Time was needed to clear the misunderstandings and that time is now. In short, it is not will Barre be back, but when.

Originally posted by Mansa Munsa: HornAfrique, my mind tells me that the citizens of Kismayo is been silenced by the courts but my heart tells that they are better off than Hiirale's rule.. I'm sure even in Hiiraale's they were better off then Morgan's, no?

Rudy, no body gets you bro even though we can hint what you mean.

Me! That was an extremely nice read. One of the most informative I have yet to come across around here yet. A very nice read indeed.

Originally posted by Northerner: ^^Why are the people of Kimaayo against the ICU? I would be insulting you if I gave my own interpretation. I would advise you to call that city and found out on your own terms. Dear HornAfrique Why I don't see the continuation of the demonstrations in Kismayo City, could you shed light on the causes of its subsidence.. That's a question you're own sense of logic can answer. Can the people of Kismaayo demonstrate is a more fitting question, no?

Originally posted by erselam: Do they have a different flag? Why did they burn the flag? The stroy sounds like the one that is being used by the Ethiopian government against its oppositions in the diaspora. Is this fabrication made in Ethiopia? Is it fabrication? I like the ICUs. They are better that the flesh eating Somali war lords and idle (unemployed) TFG in Baidoa. No, both the Flag burning and Qaad were spread by Mogadishu based media to deflect away the real attention why people were not welcoming the Mogadishu entity. Dadka codkoodaa la diidayaa in la maqlo but alas this is the information age.

^That has been the story line of the Courts yes, but how do they explain the immediate and on-going protests that were going on as the Courts were just entering the city? If the protests had taken place after the Courts settled and were able to turn planes away, that is understandable but not when people were protesting as they were entering the city. Also the earlier excuse was a "flag had been burnt" but that has largely been abandoned for the Qaad excuse. I have family in the city, I know what's going on.

Originally posted by Jimcaale: You base your argument on women and children? That's buddy. The video shows not a single man protesting, just women and children and it's trasparent to everyone what their protest is based on. Did you get to see the Reuters reporter called adeer a 'warlord'? I think Rahima hit the nail right on the head. Kismaayo was not invaded. Abuu Mansuur put it well when he said the locals who left the city come back for it's Ramadan month. Women and children ku ye. Ragu miyey ka qiimo badan yihiin dumarka? Teeda kale it is always our sisters who realize the wanaag vs. shar of our people and it is always the men waxa dadku dhibaatada ku haya. If it was not an invasion, the women would be among the first ones to raise caleemo qoyan for the Maxaakiim as has been shown in Muqdisho. What else did Abu-Mansuur say? I am sure you won't tell us he shares your views on Barre Hiiraale, no? p.s. go find up the definition of the word warlord.

Rahima I honestly respect you and you know that. I also do not believe you are a hypocrit (matter of fact I know you are not) but I do believe you are taking a politically correct stance. One of the things you said were the wadaado from Hiiraale's clan supported the actions of the Indhacade/Dahir Aweys camp of the Courts which is not really the truth. The highest member of Hiiraale's clan in the Islamic Courts, and one of the voting members of Goolaha Shuurada, is Sheikh Maxamoud Macalin. The Sheikh warned against the "invasion" of Kismaayo and complicating the delicate tribal harmony that has surfaced the last half decade and that could also taint the name of the Courts of taking a peaceful city they should negotiate with/for instead of outright aggression especially while there is political conflict between Barre Hiiraale and the group that is most rumoured, by Somalis, to be the hand behind the Courts. Waa la iska dhega-nugley. That Kismaayo was invaded is not the topic. This video is a proof of what even Kismaayons thought about it. Interesting enough as soon as Dahir Aweys/Indhacade were shown the voice of the people and were embarassed infront of the world for their claim "we were called by the people", Sheikh Maxamoud Macalin became high demand and the advisor of all advisors. He was even sent to Kismaayo to convince the people to accept something he himself had been against. But of course the people needed no convincing as evident from the rukus made before the forceful control of the whole city and the Martial Law along with its curfews was imposed. If Hiiraale were to take the city tonight, wadaadu la dagaalayaa odhan mayo waayo wadaado waxay raganu sameeyeen ma sameeyaan.

^Adeer orad da'aadaadu la dood. Foodlow kastoo rabo inuu isa soo taago wakhti uma haya. If you do, however, want to know what the opinion of the real Islamic Courts members think about Barre Hiiraale, here it is though starting at the 6:50.

Salaam Rahima. Granted the tribal connection was understandable and even welcomed by those of us who supported the Courts in their early fights against the "anti-terror" alliance but why do you think that has not been respected in the invasion of Kismaayo.

^Sxb I honestly do not understand the reason you keep following me but I am not going to be the punching-bag for your cuqdad. So you don't like Hiiraale. Granted. So you believe reer Gedo should not at all be in Kismaayo because they are "Xabad-keento" rather then "doon-keento". Granted. So you have lingering anguish at the multiple defeats to Morgan. Granted. That's all fine and wonderful in adeer; they are your feelings and your opinions. You have spoken out about them before and you continue to. Wonderful. Sidaas ay tahayne Diinta Islaamka kumaan dhuuman lahayn if I were you, because nothing in Kismaayo, brother, is about religion much to your detremint and false hopes I would also add. Waxaan ka codsaneynaa maamulka Maxaakimta in ciidamadii Goobaanle ,Seeraar iyo Cabdi Cigaal laga saaro Magaalada kismaayo waayo? Caqli xumaa dadka. Goobaale and Seeraar are the Maxkamado. Hiiraale awalbo waxaad ku nacdeen Goobaale iyo Seeraar maantana la yaab ma leh hadaad rag shaar kale soo huwaday aad u dacwo-aadeen iyagu laftirkoodana aad ka dacwooneysaan.

^That should tell you then we are not against diin but against munaafaqnimo. Read this about those elders and intellectuals. Hogaamiyaha Dhaqanka Beesha **** ee J/hoose Oo Shir Dhexdiisa Ku Canaantay Xasan-Turki in uu Lumiyay Abaalkii Ay Beesha **** U Gashay 4 Sanadod Oo La Doon Doonayay Iyo Mid Ka Ah Maleeshiyadii Qabsatay Kismaayo Oo Xalay Qori Laga F Oct 01,2006 by Kismaayo-Gedo News Network Nabadoon Maxamed Bashiir Madoobe Yaroow Hogaamiyaha Dhaqanka Beesha **** ee gobolka J/hoose ee Kismaayo ayaa u sheegay Xasan-Turki oo asagu ciidamada maxkamadaha ay axadii hore kismaayo qab****en in uu si fudud ku ilaaway abaalkii ay Beesha **** u gashay mudooyinkii uu ku dhuumanayay Raasganbooni ee la doon doonanayay. Nabdoonka oo ka hadlayay shir maxaakiimta iyo dhaqanka beesha **** ku yeesheen Kismaayo ayaa shaaca ka qaaday in Beesha **** aysan marnaba xasuusteeda ka tirayn duulaankii Bareerka ahaa ee ay kismaayo ku soo qaadeen Maleeshiyooyinka maxkamadaha ayna ku burburiyeen nidaamkii Jiray ee Dooxada Jubba. Maxamed Bashiir Madoobe oo ah Ninka ugu da,da yar odayaasha dhaqanka ee J/hoose isla markaana Hogaamiyaha Beesha **** ******* ayaa intaas raaciyay in beeshiisu ay raali ku noqon karto oo kaliya in Maleeshiyada maxkaamiinta kala baxaan kismaayo islamarkaana ay Maaamul deegaanka ah talada ku wareejiyaaan. Isagoo hadalkiisa sii wata ayuu nabadoonku Farta ku fiiqay Xasan turki oo uu ku eedeeyay in uu Duulaan ugu badalay beesha **** abaablki ay u gashay ee kaga badbaadisay tiro badan oo Kooxaha la dirara argagixisada ay ka dalbadeen in la soo qabto ama ay ku duulaan. "Waad ogtahay barre 10 jeer iyo ka badan ayaa loo keenay lacag oo lagu yiri Xasan keen isna waa diiday oo ku yiri halkaan argagxiso ma joogto adaa markhaati ka ah," ayuu yiri nabadoonka loo sheegay in Beesha **** aysan marnaba ku talin doonin in Culimada soomalaiyeed ay ajnabi waxyeleeyaan. Waxuu kullan aan waxba la isku reebin oo odayaasha dhaqanku ay kala hadleen Maxaakiimtii ka soo talaabay Shabeelaha Hoose aysan gacan ka gaysan doonin Hakinta kacdoonka Bulshada **** ee xalay oo ugu dambaysay qorigii looga qaatay midka mid ah dagaalyahanka Maxaakimta oo laafyoonayay Farasmagaalaha Kismaayo. Kismaayo-Gedo News Network

Naxdin wallahi

Originally posted by Oodweyne: But when all said and done, I believe that their revolutionary momentum is only one set-back away to be completely check in it's track; and by that I mean, if the Kismayo's latest changed of hands, were to be temporary , in so far as the UICs is concern; and the defeated warlord of that city, namely the said Col. Hiiraale were to re-group and recaptures that city against the Islamists; I believe, their revolutionary momentum, will loose it's lustre and it's over-powering air of invisibility. And therefore, the issue will come back to the political station that things were prior of the captured of Kismayo ; and therefore, it's likely, the issue will lend itself towards another political stale-mate of TFG vs. UIC , in military terms , at least. Oodweynooow! It is my sincere believe Kismaayo was the turning point! Even reknowned religious personalities are defecting from the Mogadishu entity! Stay tuned!

^Personally I have already made up my mind about this. On ICU, either it is political immaturity to truly show where you are coming from or you just don't care. I honestly believe this hypocrisy will set back Islamic rule in Somalia for a long time to come.

Originally posted by Paragon: Loool@humba humba. Belo, war sxb anigu ma dhaanteeyo maalintuu nin aan maxkamadaha wada taageeri jirney qiireeysan yahay , ninyahow. Lol, humba humba-daa iga qoslisey...waxaasi ma dhaanto reer-waamo baa mise waa tii la yaqiin ee Iimeey iyo Qabri-daharre? Horn, oo hada waxaad leedahay 'cayaari waa gelin dambe'. Somehow my predictions for Kismayo were fierce battles - why Barre left it the way he did, anigu ka shakiyey. I think waa tii ay Soomaalida furuntiga markii lagu jiro sheegi jireen: waa dib u gurasho ey xaalad dagaal ku jirto. If I know Barre's kinsmen well, I know sahal kuma haran. Allow sahal umuuraha. LOL @ Humba, Humba too sxb. Reer Gedoodkaan maqli jiray markey reer RRA u taano-taaneynayaan iyagoo ku haya "Humbaale, Humbaale"..marka waxaan is leeyahay Humba, Humba waa shuqul waamood lagana aqoon cariga ragii cagaha dheeraa ee galbeed. Sida loo joogaba Barre ujeedadiisa wey cadaan sxb. Ilaahayna ha u gargaaro waxii umada Soomaaliyeed ee dhibaato haabsatay. p.s. Warku waa la xaqiiyey. Reer Ugaas bey gafeen; Baardheerena caawa Ugaasyada wey isku dhex yaacsanyiin.

Originally posted by Paragon: Loool@humba humba. Belo, war sxb anigu ma dhaanteeyo maalintuu nin aan maxkamadaha wada taageeri jirney qiireeysan yahay , ninyahow. Lol, humba humba-daa iga qoslisey...waxaasi ma dhaanto reer-waamo baa mise waa tii la yaqiin ee Iimeey iyo Qabri-daharre? Horn, oo hada waxaad leedahay 'cayaari waa gelin dambe'. Somehow my predictions for Kismayo were fierce battles - why Barre left it the way he did, anigu ka shakiyey. I think waa tii ay Soomaalida furuntiga markii lagu jiro sheegi jireen: waa dib u gurasho ey xaalad dagaal ku jirto. If I know Barre's kinsmen well, I know sahal kuma haran. Allow sahal umuuraha. LOL @ Humba, Humba too sxb. Reer Gedoodkaan maqli jiray markey reer RRA u taano-taaneynayaan iyagoo ku haya "Humbaale, Humbaale"..marka waxaan is leeyahay Humba, Humba waa shuqul waamood lagana aqoon cariga ragii cagaha dheeraa ee galbeed. Sida loo joogaba Barre ujeedadiisa wey cadaan sxb. Ilaahayna ha u gargaaro waxii umada Soomaaliyeed ee dhibaato haabsatay. p.s. Warku waa la xaqiiyey. Reer Ugaas bey gafeen; Baardheerena caawa Ugaasyada wey isku dhex yaacsanyiin.

Does this not reinforce the idea the Entity had on purpose ignored the Lower Shabelle, right next door to Mogadishu? What does it say about the Entity now that they will be taking the "isbaaro" away from the place they used to defend as the beginnings of the "Islamic Courts"? This reeks of dubiousness and comical idiocy that the Entity will proof right everything its critics said about them that checkpoints and forced servitude exists in the place Dahir Aweys and Sharif Ahmed used to swear was the home of the Courts. Lugtaa la iska toogtay yaan anigu leeyahay.

^Armaad ka mid ahayn kuwuu Sheikh Hassan Turki sheegey ee dhaantada tumaya ee ku haya (I quote) "Humba, humba magaaladaa la qabtay, waa naloo qabtay" I understand where you are coming from, however, but if I were to take that position it would be after defeat not during the rehearsel.

^Armaad ka mid ahayn kuwuu Sheikh Hassan Turki sheegey ee dhaantada tumaya ee ku haya (I quote) "Humba, humba magaaladaa la qabtay, waa naloo qabtay" I understand where you are coming from, however, but if I were to take that position it would be after defeat not during the rehearsel.