....and am suprised that nobody mentioned this horrendous practice that happens in our OWN country....opps...Word mentioned it and was ignored... I didn't ignore it. I was gonna originally write something abut FGM---but when I looked through the earlier threads---there were countless articles on it. I thought it would be better if there was a universal twist to it---all the ****** traditions that exist to harm women and endanger their mental and physical well-being. Stoic + Besbaaso: Thnx for the contribution guys.

Shyhem + Wiilo: Good for you both. :rolleyes: I'm only concerned about me and if the rest of the world want to twist,bend and cut their body,i say do it baby....it's all yours. You make it sound as if it was a choice. I wonder if you would be feeling the same if it was YOU it was happening to. -------- I learned about this disgusting cultural practice in my anthropology of religion class--->Still in my mind. The Dagum Dani are people of New Zealand: One practice of the Dani, however, was kind of barbaric. If someone died, after the funeral some girls from the compound would have the first joint of a finger removed as a kind of sacrifice. As a result, most adult women were missing a joint on most of their fingers. They were still able to do things like weaving with their mutilated fingers, but heavy work was out of the question. It is said that men do most of the work---some weaving, cooking, hunting, cutting firewood..etc. I thought it was so sweet--->an equal society in which men and women both participate in household chores and general upkeep of the family. Then I found out that the reason for this was because the women couldnt do it...on account of having multiple fingers chopped off. :mad: However: So, in come the Dutch missionaries and put a stop to this practice. Of course they do. The idea of mutilating little girl's fingers is pretty creepy to me. A generation later, almost no women have their fingers mutilated. The unintentional result of all of this is that now women do all of the work. They till the fields, build houses, tend the pigs, gather salt, do the cooking, everything. When a man needs more help with a major task, he used to gather all of the men from his neighborhood to help. Now he gets another wife. So, ending funerary finger mutilation did not end gender inequality in the society. It seems to have made it worse. Source

^^^Neither is it about me. I was talking in general terms, laakin the argument still applies. So what you're saying is that you should be allowed to do what ever you please whenever you please? and also that knowing the Muslim way is enough and living by it is optional and everyone should mind thier own business? No. I think we misunderstood each other. Constructive critism is OK. Fine. Have no problems with that whatsoever--might be annoying to people but they basically know its good adive whether they take it or not. Do not twist my words dear brother...One should tell another muslim if they percieve that they are doing something wrong. After that it is out of their hands---its up to the person to take it or ignore it. Well I guess that gives me the right (yes I said the freedom of opinion and speech) to look down on you and belittle you when you demean yourself by doing things outside your faith I hope by that "you" you are being general and not refering to me. I have nothing to be ashamed of nor should my faith be put into question because I said I get irritated by know-it-alls who feels its their right to dish out their opinions whenever they feel like, and whether or not the situation is appropriate. You do what you want and I'll say what I want. Thats where we differ..."looking down and people, belittling them, and telling them what I WANT" isn't the right way to go, and you know it. IF you truly want to advice someone, you have to be kind and gentle. How are you suppose to change someone's habits/actions with your kind of hateful and disgusting attitude? Do really think anyone would listen to that? More likely, a person would be turned off by it or even get angry. Brother, when someone is drowning and you want to help them...that is not the time to lecture them about not learning how to swim or going out in the sea at that time, not wearing a lifesaver etc. You save them first, then lecture them later.

^^Yes. Makes you glad that you are born in this religion, culture, family, age. Alhamdulliah. Elongating the Neck with Rings: Traditionally the Padaung women wear brass neck-rings which give the appearance of elongating the wearer’s neck (in fact they depress the collarbone). The neck-rings can be removed, but the weakened neck muscles are unable to support the weight of the head – to do so without help would result in the windpipe being crushed. Inside Burma the tradition has been dying. Women would even cross into Thailand to have the rings removed in hospital, where they would need to wait months for their necks to recover. In Burma a girl child wears her first rings, weighing one kilo, at the age of five. Two more rings are added at 10 and 15 and another two before the age of 20, to make a total of five. Neck Rings -------- HONOUR KILLINGS: Honour killings are acts of violence committed against women by family members, generally for what is considered "immoral behaviour". An average of 25-30 women are killed in Jordan each year in the name of honour. In most cases, a girl or woman is murdered by a family member for alleged violations of family honour. Human rights and women's activists have called for amendments to Article 340 of the penal code which exempts from punishment or reduces the penalty against those who kill female relatives for acts they consider improper. Many honour killings go unreported or may be recorded as accidental deaths or suicides. Lawyer Muna Zoughbaba of the Jordanian Women's Union stated: "The family would kill and bury their daughters and then report them missing." It is believed that the actual number of honour killings is four times as high as the reported figures. The whole concept of the way honour crimes are carried out is un-Islamic. If an immoral act has been committed between an unmarried man and woman, there must be four witnesses who can testify to this act. Then if four witnesses can be produced, there will be a court hearing and a sentence will be handed down to both parties, male and female. In Islam, immoral acts and behaviour are considered the same for both sexes. However, in most Middle Eastern countries, males are not punished for adultery or fornication while females will most likely be killed. Sheikh Izzedin Al Khatib Al Tamimi, who advises [Jordan's] King Abdullah on Islamic affairs, said Islam forbids individuals from committing "vigilante" acts to punish adulterers. Male members of a family believe they can only regain their family honour by murdering females for alleged sexual transgressions. Nevertheless, autopsies performed on the victims of honour killings show that 95 per cent of the females killed had no sexual relations at all. At least 50 women are involuntarily detained in protective custody each year so they will not be killed for alleged sexual transgressions

I'm sorry you feel so angry at anyone who would say anything to you BUT everyone's not out to get you or put you down or make you look bad. Is the thought that someone might actually care so foriegn to you? I don't know what negative life experiences you've had but they seem to have successfully turned you into a paranoid skeptic. You should take a chance and try something new like trust, forgiveness and compassion, you might be shocked at how good they feel. LOL! This is too funny. I don't even know where to start...but here goes nothing. 1. Negative experience? Paranoid skeptic? You are right, you DONT KNOW. Now, where did you get that from? I would rather classify it as an annoyance rather than a negative experience. You are reading too much into the graemlin rather than the post itself, me thinks. 2. Your assuming too much from one little paragraph. How did you conclude that compassion, forgiveness, and trust are foreign to me? Or are you a person who takes everything literally and therefore, bringing my earlier posts and judgement you had about me into this? 3. From the last statement I made, I was not talking about personal experience, but what I see countless times happen to my friends or family. Jumping, Jumping, Jumping. Lets just say for arguments sake--that it did happen to me and I freakin pissed off enough to want to smack them-->don't you think that they are the ones in wrong if they are bringing out so much anger in me? Isn't my life my own to live? If one has nothing good to say---they should keep their mouths shut--unless they are really advicing you. But as muslims here---we already know what they are telling us. Are they really adding anything new to what we already know? No. 4. Who made you the psychaitrist of the house? Because your fake little lisence should be taken away...and burned. Besides---you are taking this LETS ALL LOVE EACH OTHER AND TELL EACH OTHER OUR FAULTS WHETHER WE ARE IN THE RIGHT OR NOT---too far. Are you perhaps one of those people who constantly comment on others lives...because they have no lives of their own?

CHINESE FOOT BINDING: The process of foot binding started for the young girls anywhere from the age of four to six. It was done so early in her life so that the arch did not have much time to develop. The mother who was the one to bind the feet, and usually started the process late in the fall or winter, so the foot would be numb and the pain would not be as severe. The daughters' feet would first be soaked in warm water or animal blood and herbs (Jackson 39). The special potion that was used for this caused any dead flesh to fall off (Levy 12).She would have her toe nails cut as short as possible therefore not allowing them to grow into the foot. After she received a foot massage, the four smallest toes on each foot were broken (Chinese Foot Binding 2) This was not even the worst of the pain. The mother soaked silk or cotton bandages in the same liquid the girl's feet were soaked in. The bandages, which were ten feet long and two inches wide, were wrapped around the smallest toes and pulled tightly to the heel. Every two days, the binding was removed and rebound. This part of the process went on for two years. By this time her feet were three to four inches long. To assure the feet staying small, the ritual continued for at least ten more years (Hwang 1). The process was very painful; every time the feet were rebound the bandages were pulled tighter. But besides just the pain of the process, there were many after affects that were detrimental to the young girls' health. The pain of the bound feet never stopped. The most common consequence was infection (Hwang 1). There were many ways a girl could get an infection. One was the ball of the foot would folding directly into the heel. A second was that the toenails continued to grow, eventually curling into the skin. This led to flesh rotting off, and sometimes even a toe. The worst part of the process was that the feet would practically die after three years. The feet being dead caused a terrible smell the girl carried with her everywhere (Chinese Footwear 1). Diseases followed infections, and death could even result from foot binding (Hwang 1). There were many reasons mothers made the decision to bind their daughters' feet. Men in China in that era would not marry a woman who did not have bound feet. The man's mother was always responsible for making sure the woman he was to` marry had bound feet. If the mother of the man lifted up the woman's dress and discovered "clown feet," she would not allow her son to speak to that woman again. The mother of the man that she loved finding out she does not have bound feet was the most embarrassing thing that could happen to you (Jackson 62). Feet binding also divided men and women and upheld old Chinese beliefs. Foot binding kept women weak, out of power, and dominated by her husband. When women bound their feet, men could dominate more easily and not worry about women taking their power. The process took place so early, the young girl had no choice but to follow her family's order and have her feet bound. She was uneducated and considered foot binding necessary. Also, she was seen as an object to the men, to be observed and look pretty, therefore appealing to men mattered more to the girls than their health. The girl's life went on without having much control over it (Levy 42-46). Foot Binding ----------------- Sati---Indian widows (women) thrown into fire (voluntarily or force) upon husbands death: I. What is Sati? Hindu custom in India in which the widow was burnt to death on her husband’s pyre. Can be a voluntary choice or force upon a woman by her in-laws. Reasons for Sati A widow's status was looked upon as an unwanted burden that prevented her from participating in the household work. Her touch, her voice, her very appearance was considered unholy, impure and something that was to be shunned and abhorred. A woman was considered pure if she committed Sati. III. The History Behind Sati Sati, the wife of Daksha, was so overcome at the demise of her husband that she immolated herself on his funeral pyre. Sati was the consort of Lord Shiva. She burnt herself in fire as protest against her father, Daksha did not give her consort Shiva the respect she thought he deserved. IV. Theories of Origin Even though Sati is considered an Indian custom or a Hindu custom it was not practiced all over India by all Hindus but only among certain communities of India. Sacrificing the widow in her dead husband's funeral or pyre was not unique only to India. This custom was prevalent among Egyptians, Greek, Goths, and others. Ramayana- Sita walks through fire to prove her purity. Mahabharata- Madri throws herself on her husband, Pandu’s fire. In general, before this custom was outlawed in 1829, there were a few hundred officially recorded incidences each year. Even in the year 2000, you hear about Sati occurring in rural villages. Sati

I think most of you are clever enough to steer the conversation in another direction. Children is always a good topic--particularily theirs. I've always been adviced to become a doctor rather than a nurse---actually lectures. :rolleyes: The only reason I stayed and listen with a smile is because, hooyadii baan ka xishoonayey and I didn't to disrespect them. It's the thought that counts afterall. However, its those people who say their little advice looking down on your with a smirk, like your a complete ***** , that get my goat. :mad: They are not saying it out of kindess but to put you down and compare you to others in a negative light. They almost have some kind of high from it.

They must have survived throughout generations. To some it brings heartache, to others elations. These words can be said at any chosen time. They can be told gently or at the drop of a dime. When told to a person who feels the same, Into their arms you go and forever remain. But told to a person who doesn't quite agree The pain they can bring is awful to see. These words will steal your heart like a crook. Its victims aren't chosen by age or by looks; And no matter how your life is arranged, Once they are spoken it will always be changed. If the words I shed are still a mystery, Think back along the lines of history. What words are immune to death or by lies? What words can comfort the sound of our cries? When thinking of you these words come to mind. These bittersweet words that have power to bind. If you don't know yet and I think that you do These special sweet words are "I Love You". Anonymous. *Sigh*

^^"Breakdown" Mariah Carey. It's pretty good..go listen to it with a bunch of chocolates and some kleenex.

you called yesterday to basically say that you care for me but that you're just not in love immediately i pretended to be feeling similarily and led you to believe i was o.k to just walk away from the one thing that's unyielding and sacred to me well i guess i'm trying not to be nonchalant about it and i'm going to extremes to prove i'm fine without you but in reality i'm slowly losing my mind Underneath the guise of smile gradually i'm dying inside friends ask me how i feel and i lie convincingly cuz i don't want to reveal the fact that i'm suffering so i wear my disguise til i go home at night and i turn down all the lights and then i break down and cry Verse 2 so what do you do when somebody so devoted to suddenly just stops loving you and it seems they haven't got a clue of the pain that rejection is putting you through do you cling to your pride and sing "i will survive" (gotta get control, roll, roll, roll on) 4X do you hold on in vain as they as they just slip away How about V-day for those without someone or brokenhearted? :rolleyes:

To those that gave their opinions on the topic but still got accused of bias and tribal hatred. If you’re the emotional type and feel that an apology or acknowledgment from me will help you withstand such indictments, I hereby extend you my warmest apologies and total respect (though I doubt either would mean anything to you - Particularly FF). How incredibly arrogant of you, Ngonge. :rolleyes:

Taas waa iga su'aal, marka hore. Waxaa intaas ii raacda horta waxaan kala garan la'ahay in Femme Fatale iga heshay iyo inay rabto hada ka dib iney i jeclaato. Koley wixii jiraa marbey soo bixi, laakiin u maleyn maayo anoo u jeeda Ina-Dhagax-Tuur inaan Femme Fatale dooranayo. Alle-Ubaahe, pat yourself on the back dear. You have mixed the lethal combination of arrogance with stupididty, quite successfully I should add. And not only have you drank every drop of it, but licked the bottle clean. I am too surprised to add anything else...and this ends here because we are ruining the Brothers wonderful and informative thread. If you have anything to say to me...pm from now on. I'm getting tired of these little spats. Baashi: Laakiin waxaan ku oran lahaa waxba ha la garamin haweenka e addigu dulqaado xitaa hadii lagaa gardaran yahay :rolleyes: And here I was thinking you were being nice and all. Your implying that anaa bilaawey soma'aha? Whatever. Kiwich: JZK darling. That was nice of you to say.

I pray to Allah that you find what you are searching for, and I hope that you are happy when you do. Ameen.

[i APOLOGISE FF] Me too. Assalamu Alaikum!

ALLE-UBAAHNE: Femme Fatalena hadaad wadaad ku sheegtay, anigana waxaan leeyahay NGONGE waa shiiq kale! Femme fatale koley aniga kheyr ayaan u rajeynayaa, mana is dhihi laheyn meel aan duco ku leeyahay ayaad uga yeeran laheyd si ey faataxada ama Quraan noogu aqriso, Hey, where is Femme Fatale, that girl knows everything about S and L. You're very smart. You have brains you never used. The next time you shave, could you stand a little closer to the razor? ------ Salaam

Remember I’m a nomad...a nomad who just don’t get it Dont be modest now Baashi. I happen to think your one of the few smartest here.

Assalamu Alaikum Chill out people. ---------- Does anyone else see the irony in the thread "I have the right to offend"! :rolleyes:

Jokes abt people trapped in a war not of their making=bad, very very veeery bad. This conversation is a waste of time...because I see that neither of you have even read what he said. You are just assuming and jumping to conclusions. I fail to see why any of you should really care that much. What is it to you? How do you know that he hasn't any family that suffered there? Qeelada naga dhaaya yaqeey. P.S. Dont patronize me. I thought we were talking adult to adult...but it seems that some people are reverting back to high school days. And I, for one, am not interested in going that route. maxaa ku gubaayo aa la yiri A better question is what is bothering you? You are getting too worked up and emotional over this. Its not normal. Really.

From one side of your mouth: keep your condelances and patronising words, i am sure you will need it for the next nomad you offend with your callous, unthoughful, unwitty, shameful indulgences. then the other: however we just did not agree. surely differences in opinions are allowed Make up your mind, wont you? :rolleyes: ------ ps: should i expect more supporters or like-wise thinkers giving their take? i wonder, how many more are blessed with the sense of humour that we are lacking. Why are you making it about you?

^^^Of course NGONGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :eek: Allah, Islam, Prophets, angels, dead people, somebody's mother ( :mad: )...sex?--etc. shouldn't be joked about. On a sidenote: I heard jokes were haram because it was based on lies! :confused: Edited: oops.......havent read your earlier post! Well depends if humour is used to humiliate, hurt another person/people or if its used in a carefree/joking/fun manner. Ex. I read this joke yesterday...my brother laughed hysterically over it and I didnt consider it funny. A black woman has an abortion. The next day, she recieves a check in the mail for $500 from crimestoppers.

Reading Ngonge's post (I might be wrong) but I gathered that he was poking fun at his ignorance of the situation rather than the situation itself. So many of us were too young to remember what happened or can even make sense of it...and most of our "experience" that we are relating, is what we heard from family and relatives. The war was indeed horrible--but I myself thought it was an exciting adventure (I was 7). Looking back it now, do I realize the extent of brutality and hatred that went into it. Don't be jumping to conclusions people.

There are rules you little boy. One of them is that we will not tolerate ********* , ignorance, and kibir.

Oh VR honey, you surely must realize I was only kidding? I got sick of the complaining and moaning of the men. Crying every which way...blah blah blah Cry me a river, and kindly drown yourselves in it. P.S. You are getting too emotional VR .

^^^ You made me soo guilty shankaroon shukri-rabi. To Baashi and all the darling Faraaxs! Me loves you and is vewy vewy sowie for being such a meanie. supposedly meant to be intelligent adults making sweeping generalisations about men. LOOOOOOOOOOOOL. *looks at velvet*

Its ironic how the only way women can revolt is if they're led by a man.... I don't know about that. What I do know though is the other way around "behind every successful man is a woman". The brains of the project. Cant beat that. Besides..yaa ku yirey meesha soo gal? I specifically said exclusively woman! On the otherhand if you identify yourself as ..... Nuune iyo therapist-ubaahne: Niikada & qeelada naga dhaah oo naga tag. ---------- Registered Members: -Femme Fatale -Guardian & Protector -Runaway Virgin