Wadani;946932 wrote: Like i've said before Somalis, and blacks in general, will give everything a European or Middle Eastern origin whether historically warranted or not. It's as if we don't believe in our ability to create and sustain anything worthy of being mentioned. So now paganism is something worthy of upholding? The idiocy of some people is amazing.

Europeans have symbols because they have pagan tendencies. Somalis are inclined toward Islam, and we don't need pretentious symbols. If you want to lower yourself to the primitive tendencies of Europeans, that's fine. But don't bring that garbage to other Somalis. We are content with the truth.

Homunculus;946138 wrote: The post is ignorant but overall Nubians are related genetically to Somalis and East Africans in general, it shouldn't be an insult since Nubians are actually doing much better than Somalis or Somalilanders. Modern Nubians may be genetically related to East Africans, but they are not the true Nubians. I posted pictures above from the actual Nubian era artworks. The true descendants of the Nubians are the people of central Sudan and South Sudan.

brainblaster456;945966 wrote: Well, if the first theory was true that Islam came to Somalia through 13th century Persian trading then we would have all been Shia. but there is not an exact date of when this trading occured, and it could have well been Pre-Islamic. Personally, i am convinced that the 2nd theory is closest to the truth. Persia was historically part of Ahl As-Sunnah, as Mad_Mullah said above. During the early years of the 16th century, the Turkic tribes of Azerbaijan invaded Persia and they began a long process of converting the people to Shiism so that they could control them and separate them from their Muslim brethren of the Ottoman Caliphate. The strange thing is that the Azeri invaders were not even Shia themselves, they were Sunnis of the Shafi'i school; they merely chose the Shia religion for the Persians because of pragmatic reasons. Since we know that Saylac was a prominent Islamic city during the time of Imam Bukhari (RH), we can easily assume that Somalis were already a well-known Islamic society long before the Abbasid Caliphate sorted out its local affairs in Baghdad. The Abbasids were not even a militaristic caliphate, they just inherited the lands of the Ummayad Caliphate. Most importantly, Somalia's economic importance came after Islam - so there was never a justifiable reason to waste resources to invade this desolate country of ours. The most logical theory is that Islam began a modest entrance into Somali, Afar, and Oromo communities under Muslim Habesha who met the Sahaba (RA) during the 7th century. Since the ummah was small at the time, the new Somali Muslims probably gained the attraction of the larger Muslim states, which led to the quick rise of Saylac, Berbera, and Mogadishu to world prominence. You should remember that during this period, the Muslims were like a tight fraternity in terms of support for each other and recognition of each other. I believe that Islam spread so fast in Somalia because Allah SWT willed that we would have many new visitors and thankfully our ancestors were open to these new friends. The most important point to stress is that Somalia did not become a prominently Muslim nation in the later centuries like other countries. We were already a prominent Muslim nation during the first three centuries of Islam, the blessed centuries of the Hadith collectors and the Fiqh pioneers. The only history that Somalis should study is their Islamic history, because that's the only time we ever shined.

Tillamook;945885 wrote: ^ Lol...Now that is a scolding if ever there was one Timur, I wanna know what is the significance of this topic per se? I mean, after the coming of the Holy Prophet(pbuh), Islam spread from it's epicenter of Mecca through trade, conquest and migration, Somalia included. So basically let's not over think this. Bro, I'm very aware that the subject of this topic is one that is famous with kafirs who hate Islam and wish to defame it by bringing up silly straw man arguments to attack the religion. Our friend Burahadeer has clearly bit onto a part of their bate. Personally, even if I knew that Somalia was conquered by brute force (which is not even close to the truth), I would still thank our conquerors. To this day, Bosnians and Albanians give thanks to the Ottoman Turks for conquering them and making them Muslim, and I'd do the same if we were in a similar boat. My purpose for this topic is to discuss history, that is all. If we discuss the topic of Islam and its history in Somalia, we will find that Somalia has a very rich history. I believe that Somalis, like all Muslims, should return to their rigid and once prestigious Islamic scholarship and governance if they want to get out of this miserable condition. During the time of Islamic scholarship, Mogadishu was among the world's greatest cities and Somalis were treated with respect by all. Without Islam, we are nothing. The closer we resemble our primary Islamic identity means the closer we get to regaining our pride and humanity. I don't mean that Somalis should embrace Islam because Islam will bring them wealth, but because Islam will lift them from every kind of darkness and weakness. We are weak today because we flirted with a century of non-Islamic systems like socialism, secularism, liberalism, democracy, and other gutter ideologies that were forced on us by some kafir whose real intention was to remove us from our diin so they can have their way with us. Most people do not know this, but European kafirs have a severe inferiority complex toward one particular culture - Islam. If you identify as a secular Somali, the European will feel as if he's above you, but if you identify as a Muslim Somali, the European approaches you like a slave naturally approaches his owner. This is the way Europeans interacted with Muslims for a thousand years, and they have still not shaken off this inferior self-image caused by centuries of Muslim dominance and belittlement.

burahadeer;945881 wrote: They gave in & threw their old religion outa window the minute they saw white guy just like the Egyptian civilization surrendered once they met the first few guys from Europe.White Skin rules by sight..admit it. yeee and now we slaughtering each otha on sharia blaaa.......................... This is one of the dumbest things I've ever read in my entire life, and the structure and grammar of the post demonstrates a gutter level of education. It shuns the fact that the lighter-skinned people of the Levant were converted to Islam by Arabians and Africans who formed the majority of the Sahaba (RA); many of the leading figures of the early Islamic community were described as being very dark, one of them was Usama Ibn Zayd (RA) who led the first Muslim army to defeat the Romans and then conquer Syria. Please learn to read because it will help you understand history a lot better than what your English masters have taught you.

The people who call themselves Nubians today are probably descended from Cushitic nomads and exiled Egyptians who flocked to the regions that the true Nubians left behind. The modern Nubians mostly look like Somalis, and some look like Fallaheen (darker rural Egyptians). Modern Nubians also speak a dialect today that has little in common with ancient Nubian. Their claim is mostly fake and only based on the land they inhabit. The modern Nubians of Egypt and Sudan are much culturally closer to ancient Egyptians than to Nubians anyway. The true Nubians were very dark people who looked like the Dinka and other southern and central Sudanese tribes. They fled mostly to central Sudan a long time ago. The Nubian language is part of the Nilo-Saharan linguistic classification, and almost all Nilo-Saharan ethnic groups look similar; the modern Nubians look the least like their ethno-linguistic kinsmen. Today, the people of central Sudan and South Sudan like the Dinka, the Fur, the Zaghawa, the Nuba, and the Nuer are the true descendents of the old Nubian civilization. Below are some ancient artworks from Nubia and Egypt that depict the pure historic Nubians of Sudan and southern Egypt:

Blackflash;945855 wrote: I'm sure some will attempt to romanticize it, but I suspect that like the rest of East Africa in general, being able to strengthen business ties with neighbouring traders was a significant factor. That's a very good statement that I was going to add to the Persian trade and conversion theory, which as I said is the most commonly-held belief. Money would be a big motivating factor for people to convert, and many nations converted entirely so they could get the benefits that Muslim traders had. Some places like Egypt and Palestine did not even become predominately Muslim for many centuries after they were conquered by the Muslims; as the trade networks developed between Muslim societies, more people living under dhimmi status began to convert to Islam because they did not want to pay jizya tax on their large revenues. We know for sure that West Africans became Muslim so they could get more access to Muslim trade routes in the north. Islam thrived in West Africa because of business alone, and Islam became synonymous with wealth in that region. Within one century of the arrival of Tuareg caravans, practically all of Mali and the surrounding area became a major Islamic world power, so it is a very likely scenario that Somalia's quick route to becoming an Islamic society may have been promoted by a lot of new incoming wealth. EDIT: I just found a big flaw in the trade theory. Somalis were known by Arab geographers to embrace Islam at least 400 years before the famous East Africa trade routes emerged. Somalis were practicing Islam in Saylac during the time of Imam Bukhari (RH), and this is written in Arab sources from the 9th century. I think that we often underestimate the historic position of prestige that Somalis once held - in secular Western revisionist history we are irrelevant, but in Islamic history and in the records of famous Muslim scholars we stand tall.

This is probably the biggest mystery in all of Islamic history. We know the way that every country was converted and also the period that these people were converted, but there is no serious explanation about Somalia's conversion to Islam. I will list three common theories, and I will discuss their strong points and weak points. 1. Some say that Persian traders converted Somalis during the time between the 10th and 13th centuries. This makes some sense because Persian culture heavily influences Somali culture; we celebrate Neyrus which is a Persian cultural holiday, and our historic seat of power Mogadishu is named after a Persian phrase. But the theory is flawed because Somalia was already a very Islamic society throughout that period. It took 600 years of peaceful dacwa to establish Islam as the dominant religion in Indonesia, but Somali people were recognized as one of the most prominent Islamic societies during the early part of the second millennium. Also, Somalis are very xenophobic nomads, so I don't believe that they were likely to peacefully accept Islam like the way the Egyptians or Syrians or Iraqis accepted Islam after their Roman and Persian tyrants were defeated. This theory is the most widely propagated story of Somalia's conversion to Islam, but it has very little direct evidence. 2. Some say that the Abbassid Caliphate conquered Somalia in the 12th to 13th centuries. This theory makes some sense because the Abbasid Caliphate was restoring its military prestige during the 12th and also early 13th century, and they were also taking slaves from the Zanj (Bantu) coastal regions below Somalia, which may have been acquired by making deals with Somali clans like the Omanis used to do. But this theory is flawed because as I said earlier, Somalis were already a prominent Islamic nation during the 12th and 13th centuries, and the Abbasid Caliphate also had a strong relationship with the Somalis of Saylac and Mogadishu, and these cities were prestigious Islamic societies - it takes multiple centuries to build prestige, which means that Somalis were Islamic for a long period before the 12th and 13th centuries. Most importantly, there is no recorded history of foreign invasion of Somalia until the colonial era, and if Somalia had been invaded by the Abbasids, it would be part of the Abbasid history but it is not. For the record, this theory is not popular and it is only mentioned in one book to my knowledge. 3. Some say that the Sahaba (RA) converted the Somali people to Islam during the migration to Axum. Some Somalis say that the Sahaba (RA) converted some tribes in the Horn to Islam, and that Islam began in Somalia during that time. This theory is flawed because the Muslims had an agreement with the Axumite leaders that they would not convert anyone during their period in Abyssinia, and also because the Sahaba (RA) reached Abyssinia through the coast of modern-day Eritrea not Somalia or Djibouti. The Sahaba (RA) took refuge deep in Tigrayan and Amhara territory, so they were far away from any Somalis or Afar. But the theory does have some strong points because according to the the Sunnah, the Axumite leader al-Najashi (RA) became a Muslim. The Sunnah only says that the prophet Muhammad (SAW) prayed janazah for Al-Najashi (RA), which is basically proof that he certainly converted to Islam. Since the Sunnah does not add more details about Al-Najashi's (RA) life, we don't know the full story after the event after the prophet (SAW) made janazah. Since Axum remained a Christian city until now, we can say for sure that Al-Najashi's (RA) new religion was not accepted by his people, which means that he and perhaps some other early Abyssinian converts were exiled by the Christians, and this creates the possibility that the early Abyssinian Muslims made their own hijra until they encountered the pagan Somalis and Afar. If we look at this theory, it sounds like a far-fetched and arrogant Somali assertion by some of us who claim that Somalis were among the earliest Muslims, but in reality it is also the most likely scenario since the other theories have far bigger flaws. As I said earlier, it's unlikely that the Somalis and Afar would peacefully accept Islam from normal Muslims like the 10th to 13th century Persians, but the early Abyssinian Muslims were blessed by their interactions with the noble Sahaba (RA), and we know that the early generations of Muslims had a lot of charisma and superior qualities over the later generations that enabled the Sahaba (RA) to overcome difficult obstacles like the ignorance of pagans. What do you guys think? Originally I believed the first theory and I used to think that the third theory was the least plausible, but now I am beginning to believe that the third theory may in fact have a lot of truth in it. We know for sure that Islam had a very early and blessed presence in the Horn, so it is also very possible that some strong elements of Islam were exchanged with our Abyssinian neighbors who might have embraced Islam and later proselytized to the Somali, Oromo, Afar pagans at the edge of their borders.

Are we talking about the same USA that backed communist Ethiopia against Somalia in the '77 war? Somalis must have amnesia, because Washington doesn't give a crap about you.

malistar2012;942752 wrote: They should imprisoned them in Puntland , Torture them little bit give them taste of how Somali Prisoner are dealt with in Yemen They are Iranian, not Yemeni. Most trawlers in Somali waters are from Iran.

Mario B;934593 wrote: It's citizen are aware, that they are elements inside/outside the country who don't want a central authority to form in the Republic because......[ you fill in the details] Somalis are often paranoid about some boogeyman coming to steal their make-believe nationalism. Even the strongest countries in Africa are full-fledged colonies, so I fail to see what threat Somalia poses to anyone.

http://dissidentnation.com/meet-somalias-resilient-jewish-pioneers/ Do somalis need to come up with a solution?

Silanyo is going too far, he is no better than the last dictator.

The only thing getting higher in Somaliland is its people. http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/africa/090715/somalias-addict-economy Such is the love of khat that to outlaw it would be political suicide.

Che -Guevara;892657 wrote: Is it really the people of Qardho that's demonstrating? I think the Farmaajo scandal involving the coerced glue-sniffing boy proved that popular 'demonstrations' in Somalia are more likely to be paid labor rather than activism.

He is only making a case to call for the arms embargo to be lifted. Do you want the embargo to be lifted?

Somaliland officials are nowhere near Las Qoray - no one in town has yet to report the inflation of khat prices.

This is Bosaso.

Beautiful pics, Blondy. The growth rate is impressive, and the efficiency of their government when it comes to construction is praiseworthy.

Everyone got the "injection," you silly khatlander. I hope you aren't delusional enough to think that some aid money from Europeans is an indication of ictiraaf. You are better off inviting more German tourists in that case. GAROWE ONLINE Xarunta madaxtoyada Puntland ee Garowe ayaa maanta 04 October,2012 waxa madaxweynaha Puntland Dr.Cabdiraxman Shiikh Maxamed Farole kulan kula qaatey safiirka Midowga Yurub u qaabilsan Somalia Michael Cevone. Waxa wehelinayey safiirka madaxa barnaamijka Midowga Yurub u qaabilsan Nabadgelyada iyo amaanka Somalia Valentino Auricchio,waxan kulanka qayb ka ahaa madaxweyne ku xigeenka Gen.Cabdisamad Cali Shire ,wasiirada Maaliyada ,,Deegaanka ,Beeraha ,Hawlaha Guud ku xigeenka arrimaha gudaha iyo saraakiisha madaxtoyada. ka dib markii kulankoodu soo dhamaadey ayay saxaafada kula hadleen labada masuul madaxtoyada iyagoona ka waramay waxyaabaha ay ka wada hadleen. Ambassador Michael Cervone ayaa bilowgii ka waramay wajiga cusub ee Midowga Yurub ula shaqeynayo Somalia iyo taageeradii dhaqaale ee ugu badneyd oo Somalia ugu deeqaan. Dhinacyada Amaanka ,waxbarashada ,dimoqraadiyada ,cuntada iyo deegaanka ayaa uu sheegey inay ka taageeri doonaan Somalia kuna baxayso dhaqaale dhan 158 Malyan oo Doolar. Safiirka ayaa sheegey in lacagahani ka duwan yihiin kuwii hore oo hayadaha caalamiga ah loo soo marsiin jirey Somalia islamarkaasina ku jiraa kuwo si toos Puntland loogu wareejinayo si ay u maamulaan. Madaxweyne Dr.Cabdraxman Shiikh Maxamed oo hadalka qaatey ayaa sheegey in dhaqaalaha la bixinayo in ka badan 50 Malyan Puntland la siinayo maadama ay qaybaha Soomaliyeed ugu weyntahay,isagoona raaciyey $25 kamida inay ku bixi doonto amaanka cunto oo loo marayo maareynta dhulka daaqsinka ee Puntland. Booqashadan ayuu ka mahadceliyey ,waxana uu tilmaamay madaxweynuhu in waaxyaha dowladiisu ay awoodeeda leeyihiin maareynta deeqahan waaweyn. Waa booqashadii saddexaad uu safiirku ku yimaado Puntland tan iyo markii la magacaabey dhamaadkii October ,2012.

I love this city.

Reminds me of what Riyaale did to the Habro.

The figure you posted is in GEARY-KHAMIS dollars, which is a hypothetical unit of currency used to measure standard of living. Life in Somalia was cheaper than life in Burundi or Kenya, obviously, and that's why it ranks well for the Geary-Khamis ranking. However, in actual production, Somalia was worse off than Burundi and far worse off than Kenya. We produced nothing, but we also imported very little, which made things balance out. It STILL doesn't excuse the fact that Somalia produced less than Burundi per capita. It's pathetic that you brush off the World Bank stats in favor of your own imagination. You are either a troll, or you refuse to believe anything other than your own myths. The fact that you went this far into the topic running on your own assumptions and beliefs tells me you are not serious at all. If you can bring facts relating to direct production per capita, do so. Otherwise, none of what you say has merit without a credible source, unless of course you want to make up conspiracies for why you don't trust them.

Chimera, what is your source? There is no detailed source that has ever recorded Somalia's per capita GDP being that high. The World Bank has a very nice tool via Google which lets you look at Somalia's GDP per capita from 1960 to 1990. It's the most detailed data bank out there and it has plenty of other information besides just that. Below is a World Bank chart chronicling Somalia's per capita GDP, which for the vast majority of the 1970s and 80s was the lowest on earth. http://i.imgur.com/uheNh.jpg According to the World Bank chart above, if we look back to 1985, as you suggested in your title, Somalia's per capita GDP was only $137 as I've pinpointed for you; it was the lowest in Africa, and the world. For two consecutive decades (most of the 70s and 80s), Somalia competed with Burundi in the bottom of Africa's per capita GDP rankings, and unfortunately Burundi still came out stronger almost every year. In fact, the highest per capita GDP ever recorded for Somalia was a mere $178, which would be roughly $500-600 in today's terms. It's fascinating to me that many Somalis have a rosy view of their country prewar, as if it was perfect, though in reality it was equivalent to today's Burundi or Burkina Faso, just another minor and forgettable banana republic. I just came here to post the facts since no one was providing sources for their wild guesstimates. I'm not here to argue if this information is the most accurate, but it is the only information that is recorded soundly (unless someone provides another data bank). And according to this information, Somalia was destined to go nowhere. I'm also a bit shocked at the lack of professionalism by Chimera, making up numbers with absolutely zero sources, and basing an entire essay on those fictional numbers. In fact, if you google "Somalia $836" with or without the quotations, Chimera's topic is literally the only thing on the entire world wide web that accurately matches that description.