Originally posted by me: quote:Originally posted by Qudhac: do you think you are scaring anyway by calling us "jews" of the Horn. Qudac I did not call anyone the jews of the Horn. The article that has been written by a pro-secessionist is titled The Israel in the Horn of Africa. Read is for yourself my friend. Wrong again this letter was written by anti-somaliland somalis.

That fake letter is ancient and who wrote it is obvious. The name of the group says it all liberty for the muslim world what a fake sounding name. and from the grammer and choice of words it is 100% gaurenteed that this was written by somalis, especially anti-somaliland somalis. but other than that we have no problems with I Isreal, isreal is not waging a political and economic war on us, our arab brothers are. so we welcome full diplomatic relations with isreal. an enemy of an enemy is a friend

Originally posted by me: Oda_Nobunaga The economic issues that I have raised are relevant. It has been 15 years since the dictator was ousted but Hargeysa hospital is still in the same state if not worse, I have seen that Geldorf documentary and it was nothing to be proud of after 15 years it is still in shambles. I know it is easy for you to blame others for the lack of development, but the situation will not get much better even when the life stock ban is lifted. The only sanction that the Arabs have on the enclave is the life stock ban and nothing else. All other economic activities are not banned and there is trade between the enclave and the Arab countries, the problem is this trade is not enough to support a viable state. So yes you should look at the economic reasons for unity. blaming outsiders is a valid point becuase t is well know that the carta government of Salad lobied the aabs to ban the livestock trade to presure somaliland, which was undergoing an economic boom due to the $200 million is anuall exports.. aside from that what i want to know is what are the benefits of union with the south? you have not explained them. and are you saying the rest of somalia is an economic powerhouse able to provide aide to the north lol.

Please refrain from ridiculous theories about the economic sustainability of an independant Somaliland. We are at rock bottom things cannot get any worse only better, and infact our economy will expand rapidly if this anti-somaliland arab economic sanctions are lifted. there are no economic reasons for a return to unity.

Originally posted by Xoogsade: Qudhac, The survival of Somaliland as a separate entity from Somalia proper depends on Puntland's stregnth to withstand pressure from its local population who can demand an islamic rule any time in the near future. If Puntland becomes islmically ruled state where Sharia is enforced, Next will be adjacent towns populated by clans independent from Somaliland coming under the sway of the mighty islam. And before you know it, an islamic court in Laascaanood and one in Cerigaabo. Surely, Somaliland adminstration can do little to interfer where they have no exclusive influence right? Boorame could be next although I doubt that. Hargeysa could be isolated. Some beardos in Hargeysa itself might get the idea of getting their own courts and finally, the whole country is linked by these courts headed by the local tribesmen. Do you think this scenario is plausible? Puntland is always under threat given the sheer religious population it has. With the exception of its leaders in that north eastern region, 99% percent of the locals would opt for islamic rule. there is no question about that. These southern courts don't even have to go beyond Baladweyn to influence the political landscape. It can be a domino effect with each somali clan or subclan sheltering themselves in an islamic court. ISLAM is surely a threat to these clan concieved fiefdoms that separate Somalis psychologically if not physically. Federalism could be dead soon. These mini states(Punt/Somland) have achieved tremendous success where other somali regions failed in the past. But, this islamic wind can upset the status quo don't you think? Islam transcends clan so while a loyal clanist sees the man behind the wind, the faithful always sees different. It is a threat lol. It will be difficult to maintain isolationist ideologies if the larger population of somalis link up and find brotherhood again. If the influence of the courts grows in strength, you will see every somali town demanding an islamic rule to get rid of the local head honcho they despise so much and will take matters into their own hands. Afterall, it seems somalis have discovered a way to outmanouver local clan politics and fight back with strength. Insults will get you nowhere.(to even suggest we have something to do with the courts in the south is an insult) anyone that physically threatens somaliland, will be massacred, both internal and external enemies.

Recognition or no recognition all i know is that there will be no Blue falg flying over hargiesa. and with that iam satisfied recognition is a bonus

Arabs = Anti somaliland Isreal= Anti arab enemy of enemey = friend

The US has always been on Ethiopia side, Eritreans had to live with it. Lets hope the Eritreans are carefull this time. The Western powers find a country that has no debts and is both politically and economically independant to be a dangerous idea and a threat. So Eritrea is basically screwed, The only thing keeping it alive is their millitary prowes

you mean at the end of the day you will take anyone who chants Somaliweyne slogans. Hey why dont you hire me,ill join in if the pay is good enough

Thats very sweet of you guys, so idealistic so full of hope. Sadly you must excuse our mistrust of this "Nationalism" . 45 year years ago we were infected with this nationalism to the determinate of our senses and judgment, this infectious "Nationalism" impaired our thinking capabilities as much as a bottle of vodka would. This is why we "NorthWesterners" showed the greatest expression of nationalism by overwhelmingly supporting union with our brothers in the south,without thinking about the consequences. I know you have all heard this before " Once Bitten Twice shy" I hope you understand that no sane person would willingly put himself in harm. You would have to create another situation in which "NorthWesterners" again lose thier senses and judgment, a new "Intoxicant" "Nationalism is too obvious, so "Islam" will be used as some of the more enterprising and intelligent enemies of SOMALILAND have caught on to. but your writings still warm my heart as i remember that i too once upon a time held the same beliefs, albiet i was a niave and ignorant 13 year old.

Wrong No government is better than Tyrany If the Ethiopian people remain docile than they will never change thier condition.

it is not even far fetched to envision that they finance many killings in Mogadishu through a network of spies and hardened criminals who can be hired for a couple of hundred dollars or less. Nayruus the sesesionists are getting to you. now you are getting delusional. Somalilands greatest weakness is that its government does not realise that its greater security policy depends on following closely the activities of its nieghbours, and even interfering directly in thier affairs. Isolating itself from somali politics is plain ****** . infact some may believe what nayruss was fantasising about is a good idea.

Ofcourse we will use the borders of British Somaliland to achieve international recognition that is all Not really, in this case we are not provoking violence by invading, if you dont like the developments so much that you foolishly get provoked and attack then thats cool with us. soldeirs in sool should be withdrawn as they serve no securiety purpose and unduly antagonize the population. Soomal good idea, dulmiga waa inay joojiyaan What dulmi?? the soldiers are in territory of clans allied to somaliland, mostly ones that share lineage with Lascanood Dulmi is if we occupy Lascanood. The local millitias belonging to loyal somalilanders in sool and sanaag are more than capable of defending them selves . You call it a myth?? Ok i concede we are weak submissive women that cannot lift a finger to defend ourselves against the Mighty Puntland army. Looool Seriously dude come off you high horse, If you can accept the will of the people of lascanood to defend them selves then te same can be said of Caynabo and others. This can explian in the situation in Somalia,Presently, Somalia does not control some areas in north somalia Well not really as somalia, does not exist except in the imaginations of some people, and its 'government' is really 2 differnt camps that are countingdown towards a showdown. From Jowhar to Moqadishu.

You have misunderstood me. I was refering to the comment by Nayruus about the seccesioinsts losing the chance of recieving billions of dallars in aid , to use it to impose unity by marching towards moqadishu. An interesting if not naive statement which you agreed with. Obviously this can only include violence. Do not worry i am not advocating violence against the people of SSC as you call it, on the contrary i advocate leaving them alone. It is not in our interest to antagonize a population that we want to be fellow citizens, beside its simply too troublesome to bother with. Ofcourse we will use the borders of British Somaliland to achieve international recognition that is all. This is why the Somaliland soldeirs in sool should be withdrawn as they serve no securiety purpose and unduly antagonize the population. The local millitias belonging to loyal somalilanders in sool and sanaag are more than capable of defending them selves . This does not mean that in future we can engage in more sabre rattling with Puntland. Most of todays developing countries do not have full control over thier territories, Pakistan a nuclear power does not control a large part of it border with Afghanistan and IRan, India does not control some of its tribal areas, Same with Indonesia, Saudi arabia has some areas close to the border with yemen. If you include africa then there are several countries with even les control over their terrotories than somaliland. Relax and dont take things too seriously, i was not accusing you of anything, just pointing out some of my observations. I have no hostility towards you at all, we just disagree on some points, one that is of great emotional attachment to you, and one that is viewed as an extinct entity like the Dodo. And Ramadaan Kareem.

Originally posted by SOO MAAL: quote: that is the best score you can get for the secessionists. i told you long time ago that we must march to mogadisho and bring the whole capital to the beerta xoriyadda...still that opportunity is existing and the donor communities will give us those billion dollars you were talking the other to restore the dignity of the somalis and bring the Somali Republic to the international scene again as a full participant in the world affairs.... Makes a complete sense if secessionists had enough I.Q., wadananimo, and walaaltinimo BUT its too late Thats hilarious lool !!! Ofcourse you must know that what you suggested and called complete sense will lead to the deaths of tens of thousend of people, as you impose your will on them by force. We are all somalis and are allergic to tyrrany. Besides the whole thing is unachieveable and too costly in many ways. That you would fully agree with the above statement shows the gulf between us, and exposes your hidden predatory nature.

Originally posted by Alpha-Geeljire: quote: Beledweyne, under the theory of elite reasoning, falls under the dadka degaanka category. How come Beledweyne-origin girls look more Arab than the others who claim to be of Arab origin? A lot of useless, boastful talk. Now we all know the inhabitants of Beledweyn are "originally" from Goldogob, and its undisputed that they are truely a lost clan of Ilmo jaberti. interesting debate, but id like to clarify one thing though. The ancestors of the 2 northern clans at least the one dominant in Berbera arrived in the mod 12th century not the 600's. making it the youngest, and more clearly idebtifiable If it's so identifiable then why is it that the fathers name has been forgotten, and engage in hoyoo-tirsi. :confused: They do not engage in hoyoo-tirsi and you know that.The names of all thier fathers can be clearly indentified, and are commonly used. The maternal names are common because of the alliances between sub-clans that form around the maternal sides. By identifiable i meant that as a young clan barley 800 years old the genoelogy should be more easily tracable.

interesting debate, but id like to clarify one thing though. The ancestors of the 2 northern clans at least the one dominant in Berbera arrived in the mod 12th century not the 600's. making it the youngest, and more clearly idebtifiable

Micheal mariano would probably be saying to Somalilanders from his grave " I told you so". If he wasnt too preoccupied with cadaab al qabr. Micheal marionao was the one who campaigned strongly against the rush towrds union with the south. Hw wanted to wait a least a year when the process could be done properly and that some sort of federal arangement could be worked out. Unfortunatley he was ignored and Egal won the debate. Mariano was not anti-union , infact he was active in the south and helped the SYL with legal advice in the 50's.(he was a lawyer)

I see allot of people still have an active imagination. Somaliland is gone deal with it. Even if every country refuses to recognise us, and somalia creates some sort of government, we will still be independant. To hell with the arabs, whoever places any importance to their recognition is deluded. a new generation of somalilanders who grew up without the yoke of somalia, and they consider unity a bad word.

Shaati Gudud becuase to be a Somali president you need the approval and support of Ethiopia,

allah yarxamahu a shaheed indeed

Originally posted by CHE': oo maxaa ku jaban haddii uu nin reer waqooyi uu wareysto A/y.miyaan su'aalo la is weydiin karin ? there are 24 parliament members oo reer waqooyi ah that would gladly sit and hold conversation with A/Y,how is this any different? or is obedience to Riyaale regime a prerequisite for being reer waqooyi ? Comrade Che those 24 parliamentarians or whatever you call them, have no political signifigance in somaliland, infact they have even less signifigance than the mps from eatern sanaag and sool in the somaliland parlaiment. At least they have some minor constitiuentcy and are able to go home unmolested. Those 24 men in nairobi will be arrested and face treason charges if they step inside Somaliland.

LOL good one nayruus a new phenomena indeed. I have come across many people with similiar views to from the Duriya but i still find your ideas extremly naive and childish. Tell me how do you see the safe gaurding of the interests of reer somaliland in a new union. bearing in mind that the 1960 parlaiment was much more democratic than todays. What is likely to happen is that we will again be second class citizens in our own land. sadly any deteriation of the situation is gaurenteed to much bloodshed, may god save us all. this is not 1960 its much different.

This is good finally there is self reflection and critizism. This however does not mean that Somaliland will just wither away and die, its the opposite. If we can come this far with an unbelievably corrupt and disfunctional governemnt, imagine what can be done with a half decent average government. the greater the challenge, the greater the glory

Originally posted by CHE': Oda, and what are we to make of this sick analogy, if it isnt reflection of hate,contempt and loathe. Stick to the point, and rebut with some sense. Leave Garowe out of this , or any other city the topic does not pertain to, for that matter. Che I was only emphasising the ridiculous notion that he maybe from hargiesa, given the fact that the very name which he alludes to is anathma. Yet he claims to support and admire him. there is no need for rebuttle this is just plain ludicrous