^Ah, the usual insincerity, I call it insincererrhagia (rrhagia is a suffix for a abnormal or excessive flow or discharge)! Originally posted by MKA: I will be fine inshallaah godwillingly as there's no problem with me going to the 'makhayaad' however I don't have any hope for the two of you, that you might be cured of the devasting and terrible disease that has befallen you! You will have to take it all the way to the grave! As there's no cure yet for 'I-hate-Puntland-and-its-people Syndrome' unfortunately you have passed that stage and progressed to a more advanced stage and now you suffer also from Advanced Acquired Incurable [D-clan hate] Syndrome or in short A.A.I.D.S ! In fact it is a incurable disease, that you have to take all the way to the grave! But there' are some antivirals named MKA, however it can only reduce/lessen the pain but unfortunately not cure it! So tonight remember to take your dose of MKA inshallah as it is important! Each night you should take two doses of MKA inshallah! If you finish all your MKA doses (from now on MKA's) give me a shout and your address, so I can mail some extra MKA's to you inshallah!

Eedeynsane yuusuf garaad oo ah ninka haysta bbcda qeybta afsomaliga ayaa jaaliyada somalida ee Engiriiska dacwad u gudbiyeen maxa sare ee bbcda!!! To: The Chairman of the Board of Governors 35 Marylebone High Street London W1U 4AA Dear Sirs, We are Somali-Britons who deeply care for the future of our country. We are very unhappy about the way the BBC Somali Service conducts the Somalia related programs: Such as the selection of News Topics to broadcast and the selection of the radical people interviewed. We feel that the people in charge of the Somali Service are neither being impartial, diverse in opinion or fair in reporting the reality in Somalia. On the contrary, they appear to be taking sides and acting as tools of propaganda for the Islamic Courts Union. In our opinion, a group of Islamic Courts Union Supporters within the BBC Somali Service are selectively choosing interviewees to express the opinion of the group that the Islamic Courts Union are the chosen liberators of the Somali people. Thereby using the good offices of the BBC to campaign for the newly emerged Taliban Style Forces. We know these Forces as the New Somali Warlords who have replaced the previous, now ousted Somali Warlords. The people in charge of the BBC Somali Service is giving the activists of the Islamic Courts Union a platform as a means of propaganda for the purpose of poisoning, brain-washing and recruiting young innocent Somali-Britons and other youth Muslims in Britain, Somalia, and The East African Region, and indeed World-wide. As you know, the ousted Somali Warlords killed hundreds of thousands of innocent civilian Somalis. Dismantled our country’s physical infrastructure and social fabric, and took Somalia back to the Stone Age. Their activities were then confined in the Somali Territory. But now these Islamic Courts, the New Warlords, are a global threat, fanatic madmen, extremists and fundamentalists who want and plan to wage war on everyone, every religion & faith, including Islam. They have declared JIHAD without understanding what JIHAD is. They are only using Religion as a means to achieve their goals through the implementation of far more deadly and dangerous hidden agenda. I enclose a DVD Video demonstrating the Islamic Courts Union’s ideology and actions since they seized power in Mogadishu and Southern Somalia Regions. What has happened to the Journalism Ethics of the BBC Somali Service? What has happened to the trusted and respected core values of News Broadcasting that has always distinguished the BBC from all the other Broadcasting Media? Are we to understand that the ethics of the BBC Somali Service are now the accepted ethics of the BBC. Yours sincerely, Somali–Britons United Kingdom

^Have you taken your MKA's yet as I can see you suffer from the same mishap as the two characters you find so funny! You need at least three doses of MKA's daily, I prescribe it to you for immidiate use inshallah! If they finish just follow the same instructions I mentioned above and you will be send a package full of MKA's, have fun inshallah! I know it's difficult with all the pain etc but at least with MKA's you can enjoy life a little bit!

^I will be fine inshallaah godwillingly as there's no problem with me going to the 'makhayaad' however I don't have any hope for the two of you, that you might be cured of the devasting and terrible disease that has befallen you! You will have to take it all the way to the grave! As there's no cure yet for 'I-hate-Puntland-and-its-people Syndrome' unfortunately you have passed that stage and progressed to a more advanced stage and now you suffer also from Advanced Acquired Incurable [D-clan hate] Syndrome or in short A.A.I.D.S! In fact it is a incurable disease, that you have to take all the way to the grave! But there' are some antivirals named MKA, however it can only reduce/lessen the pain but unfortunately not cure it! So tonight remember to take your dose of MKA inshallah as it is important! Each night you should take two doses of MKA inshallah! If you finish all your MKA doses (from now on MKA's) give me a shout and your address, so I can mail some extra MKA's to you inshallah!

^Adeer the simple matter of the fact is that I make more sense than you and I have proven without a doubt that the representation of the figure 560,000,00 is indeed a valid one! So now all I want from you is to say that the above mentioned representation of the figure/sum mentioned is indeed a invalid one! Back it up and say why it is a misrepresentation! It is easy and I told this to you earlier you're simply a hate-filled person that cannot and will not see his mistakes! You said 560,000,00 is a wrong representation so I kindly advice you and your friend to back it up! Remember our own Samurai W said it was a correct form of representation and a difference of a style as he has seen many greek, italian and other european students use it! The first argument with your friend Jeylani was about the value of the above represented sum/figure, then then the whole issue shifted although you were quite clearly told that it is a European way/form of representing numbers and thus valid without contention! Then the debate shifted and you two now are still insisting that the following sum/figure of $560,000,00 is a misinterpretation/represenation of that sum! Now I want you to back up your claims! Even though our friend the chartered accountant told you that it was a valid form of representing numbears/figures in many parts of the world and Europe! So now what I want from you is to back up your claims and tell us that 560,000,00 is indeed a misrepresentation of a figure/sum, is that too much to ask ? Apprently it is! You have no legs to stand on and soon inshallah you will realise it! You're simply hate-filled individual and the issue at hand is simple, the represented figures are not illegitimate nor invalid, get it? I doubt it you two do! Remember the burden is on you!

^The reason to why you cannot comprehend logic and what I'm telling you is that there's no spare capacity left in your brain, as it is all taken up/consumed by your hate for certain people! How can I make the hate-filled mind admitt that they couldn't be able to back up what they're asserting! Adeer you're a charlatan and thus have been found out! Now if you may, once again would you back up your false claims that the representation of the figures and sums displayed is 'a new rules that are not Legitimate? You bring nothing forth to the table other than childish talk, I might as well think that you're a five year old sitting behind a computer and typing random things that are not based on anykind of intellect! Adeer I brought you evidence and I can debate my stance coherently and logically, can you now back up the above mentioned quote of yours if not then are you man enought to admitt it that you were wrong! Or as usual are you going to try to escape and therefore type words that are not fit of a man of your age, in the limited hope that you can distort the issue here at hand! I hope that you let the gallery not down again as usual by chickening out again! Remember the Burden is on you!

^Ah, that is usually a sign of defeat! Why didn't you say it earlier that you cannot bring any evidence to the table or express original and valid thoughts without embarrassing yourself? I will leave you to it inshallaah as I will not get an admission out of you that the following '560,000,00 is a ‘new introduced rules that are not Legitimate’ as you put it and which is indeed wrong! As usual you couldn't handle it as it was too hot for you to deal with, that's why I've quite rightly prophesied before hand that you would as usual chicken out! Originally by MKA Yoonis: The burden is on you my friend and not me bring forth your counter-arguments and show us the ‘newly introduced rules that are not legitimate’, if you may do so! Remember 560,000,00 is a ‘new introduced rules that are not Legitimate’! Give me a break! Either you take that back and say you were wrong and mistaken or you as usually chicken out and try to distort the whole issue again! Remember the burden is on you my friend! Shame on you, you chickened out as usual! Why can't you back up your claims that the representation of the figures and sums displayed is indeed 'a new rules that are not Legitimate? I shall not ridicule you no longer inshallah! Remeber next time if you can't back up your claims don't assert them, understand? Much appreciated as it would save us alot of explaining!

^Distorting the issue again, are we? Adeer you couldn't deal with what I have written nor could you refute it and in fact you lied to yourself! Our brother Samurai W put the issue down as he has and we were not arguing about the issue you're trying to portray unsuccessfully right now without valid reason of course(that goes without saying} and your friend Northerner actually realised it himself that the system used is a European one! The majority acknowledge that it's a European style to represent numbers in that way and according to SI it was a legitimate way to do so and nothing wrong with it! Now come here again and refute what I've written and tell me that it is not something practised in Europe! 100,000,00 is a quite normal representation in many countries around the world not only Europe, so come here and tell me that it is a wrong representation and not used in the majority of the civilised world except few English speaking ones! Adeer if you cannot deal with it and bring evidence forth like I have done, please don't come here and blew your hot airs, understand? You don't express original thoughts nor can you be on my level as I've given you a perfectly reply that made you veer as usual and thus claim a false and wishful thinking that 'I have in some kind introduced new rules that are not 'legitimate' as you put it'! If that is the case I want you to back it up! Tell and quote to me where it is said that it is a misrepresentation? Unlike you I don't falsely follow my instincts and try to defend some kind of utopia! I eagerly await it from you but you will fail inshallah as you have done so may times previously because seeing from your last attempt one can see that you're not fit to neither discuss nor debate with me on this issue coherently! Mind you, I guess I have to show you what brother Samurai W actually wrote as you falsely and so shamelessly lied about him! Here it is for the rest to see what a shameless liar you're: Bal eega -- Meelo badan oo dunida ka mid ah oo Europe ugu horayso (UK aside) waxa loo qoraa sidan : 560,000,00 halka wadamadii Britain gumaysatay sida US/Canada, Australia, New Zealand iwm loo qoro sidan: 560,000.00. Labadubana waa sax; waxaana ay ku xidhan tahay hadba halka aad daafaha dunida ka joogto. Ardayda wax ku baratay, bil mathaal, Italy sida hore ayaa sax la ah, halka kuwa Britain wax ku bartayna ay sida dambe sax la tahay --hadda bal eeg labaduba waa sax e. MKA Yoonis - sida ay wax kuula muuqdaan waan arkaaye, waana sax e , boowe adigu maxaanad u arag sida ay aniga wax iigu muuqdaan. In case you don’t know any Somali judging from the way you write he’s saying that I’m correct and that the representation is correct as well as it is used in many European countries, so if I may ask you ‘Where is the newly introduced rules that are NOT legitimate’ you so much talked about? The burden is on you my friend and not me bring forth your counter-arguments and show us the ‘newly introduced rules that are not legitimate’, if you may do so! Remember 560,000,00 is a ‘new introduced rules that are not Legitimate’! Give me a break! Either you take that back and say you were wrong and mistaken or you as usually chicken out and try to distort the whole issue again! Remember the burden is on you my friend!

Sister in Islaam according to the holy Quraan monogamy is the norm and should be desired as prevalent/practised by so many muslim men around the world! On the other hand Polygamy should only be desired when there is actually a need for it but not as we practise it! However back to the topic I think that the 'Qat culture' and the transgressing of Allaahs's laws by committing undue and unlawful actions has undoubtedly got a great deal in the rise of such kind of epedemics! They're bound too get diseased because they drink from the same saliva filled cups and chew from the same ends of the Qat 'leaf' branches! The Ethiopinas (migrants) have also a great deal in the Epidemic as they roam the streets only to fall prey to sick and wicked men that do not shy away of committing unlawful acts! I actually fear for many sisters back home and I recommend the same as Sheikh Aadan has, who said that every girl and boy that is going to marry has to undergo a test of some sort otherwise they will not be married to one another! Both the girl and boy should insist of such a test because it is their right to do so! But I doubt it, that people will listen! With keeping ones religion intact, not desiring unlawful acts and marrying good and courteous partners, I'm sure the epidemic can be stopped inshallah! We all know it the biggest cause for that epidemic is the committing of unlawful and undue acts as you don't get it from briefing in the air but it is due to the local muslims together with their politicians and the ministry of health and ministry of religious affairs to come up with a successful strategy of combating that epidemic! Seminiars, constant reminding, work shops, weekly Khutbas urging people from abstaining from the Haraam and preventing the bad and ordering the good, imprisoning the wicked adulterers and fornicaters and bringing them to justice, banning the unnecessary mixing of genders in combined areas, shaming and naming, exiling, going to schools, colleges and universities and preaching abstinence, making it easy to marry for the young, helping them finding suitable partners, encouraging them to come to the masjid, encouraging them to make siyaam and instilling the fear of Allaah in their hearts is the best way I believe to combat the disease! If we do that then inshallaah the epidemic can be defeated. Remember if you don't commit unlawful acts you're less likely of capturing that wicked disease that is a punishment from Allaah the great to all the wicked and sick people out there that transgress the rules and laws of Allaah by going over the top of what Allaah has permitted them! There's a halal way and if you seek anything else than that halal way then you can only blame your stu!pidity and yourself when you get infected with some kind of a nasty disease, maybe you should have thought twice before going on a date with that harmless 'friend' of yours, that you met at work or is a 'fellow' project research partners of yours from college or uni! I dare say that the disease only befalls wicked people and unfortunately sometimes people that need a blood-transfusion or some poor women that sought the wrong marriage partner but nobody else! So the epidemic will increase and will not stop until this ummah makes tawbah and transforms itself and uphelds the rule of Allaah the exalted but not prior to that! The prophet peace be upon him alread told us that when the Qiyaam approaches the zinaa will increase and epidemic diseases will surface as a punishment from Allaah the great! So unless one returns to Allaah, the epidemic will not stop, simple there's no cure except the fear of Allaah the exalted and unless that is achieved the disease will never be defeated! Source from MKA's research center and paper of the prevention and containment of Public diseases and epidemics and devising of successful strategies to combat and fight those! The undersigned, x... MKA!

Madaxwaynaha Soomaaliya oo mamnuucay dhoofinta dhuxusha!!! 16.Feb. 2007 APL Madaxwaynaha dawladda federaalka Soomaaliya C/laahi Yuusuf ayaa soo saaray qoraal digreeto ah oo uu ku mamnuucayo dhoofinta dhuxusha iyo gubidda dhirta. Digreetada madaxwaynaha ayaa waxaa ku xusnaydd markii uu arkay qatarta ka imaan karta xaalufka deegaanka, markii uu tixgaliyay afkaarta waxgaradka Soomaaliyeed, aqoon yahannada , culimada iyo dhammaan shacabka, markii uu qiimeeyay talada maamullada gobollada, degmooyinka inuu ku dhaqaaqay go'aankan. Waxaa madaxwaynuhu in hawsha ciqaabta dadka go'aankan bar bar mara inay u taallo wasaaradda arimaha gudaha ee dawladda federaalka Soomaaliya. C/laahi Yuusuf wuxuu sidoo kale sdheegay in khatar ba'an ay kusoo fool leedahay deegaanka dalka Soomaaliya, dawladdana ay tallaabadan u aragto mid lagama maarmaan ah. Digreetada madaxwaynaha ayaa kusoo beegmatay xilli si dar dar leh dalka oo dhan ay uga socoto dhoofinta dhuxusaha iyo gubidda dhirta qoyan iyo midda qallalan, taasoo hay'adaha u dooda deegaanku ay ka dayriyeen. Qorshahan ayaa u muuqan kara mid guulaysanaya haddii ay dawladda federaalku dhaqan galiso digreetada heer madaxwayne ee markii ugu horaysay looga hadlo dhowrista deegaanka. CCC Farayaamo AllPuntland

A decree by H.E. Abdullahi Yusuf Ahmad today from the transitional headquarters of the interim goverment in Baidoa imposed a total ban on charchoal export as it is worried about the environmental damage it is doing to the countries landscape and tree life! I very much welcome it and I hope that the governmen forces enforce the decree very harshly and that the perpertraitors of the charchoal exporting business are brought fully to justice if they dare to still pursue their senseless, immoral profiteering and environment killing tree cutting and charcoal trade! They will be pursuit inshallaah and punished really hardly, at least I would hope so! BAYDHABO: Madaxweyne Yuusuf oo wareegto uu ku mamnuucayo dhoofinta Dhuxusha iyo jarida dhirka ka soo saaray Baydhabo!!! Posted to the Web Feb 16, 12:23 Baydhabo (PP) - Wareegto kasoo baxday xafiiska Madaxweynaha Soomaaliya C/llaahi Yuusuf Axmed ee Baydhabo ayaa lagu sheegay inaan dalka laga dhoofin karin wax dhuxul ah; isla markaana la joojiyo xaalufinta dhirta. Wareegtadaan ayaa waxaa lagu sheegay inay dowladda federaalka Soomaaliya si weyn uga walaacsan tahay xaalufinta lagu hayo dhirta Soomaaliya, waxaana dowladdu ay uga digta kuwa wada jaridda dhirta iyo dhoofinta dhuxusha inay ka digtoonaadaan howlahaas dhoofinta dhuxusha ah. Sidoo kale waxaa lagu sheegay in ciidammada dowladda ay si toos ah iyo si aan toos ahayn uga hortagaan dhoofinta dhuxusha isla markaana ay baaritaanno ku sameeyaan goobaha dhigta laga jaro, ayna tallaabo ka qaadaan kooxaha wada jaridda dhirta iyo dhoofinta dhuxusha. Wareegtadaan lagu mamnuucayo jaridda dhirta iyo dhoofinta Dhuxusha ayaa waxay noqonaysaa middii ugu horreysay oo ka soo baxda Dowladda Federaalka Soomaaliya, waxaana tani ay u muuqtaan inay dowladdu xoogga saarayso inay joojiso waxyaabaha sharci darrada ah oo dhan. Dhanka kale, Wareegtadaan ayaa waxay ku soo beegmaysaa iyadoo ay ka socdaan dekedaha macmalka ee Ceel-cadde iyo Dekedda Baraawe dhoofinta dhuxul aad u fara badan oo ay dhoofinayaan ganacsadto Soomaaliyeed. Maxamed Xuseen Jantiile Wakiilka Puntlandpost - Mogadishu

I'm not a fan of the muslim oppressors' of the regime of Muhammed Husni Mubarak but at the same time it has to be noted that the Ikhwaanul Muslimiin are classical khawaarij and trouble-makers! They're fitnah and wherever they go they take their fitnah with them I would advice them not to lie to the people and stop the mayhem and civil strife they're advocating! Come back to the teachings to orthodox Islaam and teach the people, give them dacwah, forbid the wrong and order the good and supplicate to Allaah and encourage the people to repent! Start with your own, families, neighbourhoods, districs, local states and from there take it to the whole nation! Then inshallah Allaah will help you and the people will be behind you because they're reformed, educated in the matters in our religion and purified! But the Ikhwanul Muslimiin themselves are not very knowledgable, they're ignorant and on top of their ignorance they're advocaters for innovations and people of innovations! In short the Ikhwaanul Muslimiin don't have any solution to the problems of this ummah other than encouring civil strife and further blood-shed! They're truly misguided and may Allaah guide them to the right path! Amiin.

***[Edited]^You're mistaken, you cannot wish someone to go to hell! Instead of cursing him, why don't you make a supplication for your fellow muslim brother? He's a muslim and one cannot take him out of the fold of Islaam unless ofcourse he fulfills the shuroods that take one out of thid deen! Nuraddin made a clear mistake and that stems from his lack of knowledge in some aspects of our deen! Majority of Somalis, who are 'educated' and in his age group have not been subjected to the real Islaam but to practises and traditions that sometimes are not compatible with Islaamic Shariicah law! The reason being the books of knowledge were scarce and ignorance was wide spread! It's like todays young muslim generation in the west who have been brought up as muslims but judging from their practises and actions, it could only be said that the only visible sign of them being muslims is their muslim names given to them by their parents! Islaam is a great religion and I don't see eye to eye with the extreme elements of it nor do I see eye to eye with the 'modern' so-called 'liberal Muslim' views! A muslims should be orthodox (note that it does not mean becoming an extremist but someone who follows the true traditions of this religion in its original form)! So all muslims should abstain from groups that advocate civil strife and chaos such as the suicide bombers, Al-Qeada, takfiir's or the modernisers the so-called reformers and innovaters and the people of bidcah and innovations such as the 'modern' and western liberal thinking new breed of so-called muslims! Back in the 60's and early 70's there was wide spread ignorance about the deen, but in the 70's a movement started to bring people back onto the right path by good learned man! And in the 80's there was a wave of people learning the deen and a comprehensive and dacwah that actually brought some fruition and results, which had is core in the Al-Ikhwaan movement (the so-called Muslim brotherhood from Egypt)! This people propagated some innovations and wrong ideas but to the people, nevertheless, however they stimulated the hunger for knowledge within the young Somali students (students of Lafoole university in Mogadishu being the prime adherers to the dacwah and at the same time propagaters aswell), large number of women and some men! However what the Muslim Brotherhood Movement (Al-Ikhwaan) did was that they brought many needed books into our country for the people to study (Somalis are independent minds that have a knowledge in Arabic language and some actually studied independently or with the Al-Ikhwaan, which is not recommened because one has to have a Shaikh and get his knowledge preferably from a trusted Muslim scholar who has a good caqaaid)! However you have to remember and keep in mind that the country had a regime that oppressed religious freedom (they advocated for a more traditional non-orthodox Islaam that had many innovations in it like not having proper hijaab and shaking hands with the opposite sex), congregation or propagation and as some believe that some of the heads of that regime were indeed staunch supporters of communism and some even adherers to atheism! However after the civil war there was an explosion of people studying and following orthodox Islaam (meaning traditional) and finding the right guidance which is Al-Huda which made them get their sources from the right and guided scholars of this religion and thus being on the siraat Al-Mustaqiim inshallah! People started practising their religion properly! I do not agree with the notion that it some kind of temporary civil war escapism or some kind of post-war trauma stress relief but a true renaissance or reform of peoples thinking and action and a alteration of people's traditions and actions that were not compatible with our religion! It could be truly said that the civil war was some sort of a blessing for the Somali people despite the many atrocities and grave human right abuses but it was something that we needed! It shook our faith and brought us out of our trance and self-indulging recreation only to be 'awaken rudely' from our 'amusement' and senseless enjoyments without giving the gratitude that was due to our creator and thus the trembling and our subsequent demise! Allaahu Akbar, certainly Allaah meant some wisdom with it as I believe and that he wanted to purify and reform the nation and its people by bringing up a newer reformed generation that loves him and he loves them! Without the civil war this would not happen the islamic reform and revolution that is! Somalis indeed are now much wiser, knowledgable and educted in their religion than before! But one thing has to be noted and that is that Somalis truly excell in aspiring and enquiring knowledge and subsequently becoming real experts in the aspects of the religion! I'm glad that we as Somalis have so many learned and knowledgable scholars that have been educated to the highest calibre possible![/] Al-Hamduillaah! Furthermore Somalis had amongst their midst quite very knowledgable people amongst them that were truly educated in our beaufitulf religion and who had a magnficient base of knowledge to share with the rest of the society they represented and came from! One such excellent Sheikh was the great knowledgable scholar of Sheikh Cali Cabdiraxmaan Fiqqikhayyre may Allaah the exalted have mercy with him! Amiin. Furthermore we ask for true guidance and that Allaah the exalted guides us to the right path and accpets our repentence by forgiving our many sins inshallaah! Amiin. Oh Allaah guardian of this universe and creator of all things in this world help us aquire true knowledge and protect us from the innovators and their unlawful innovations and protect us furthermore from the ignorant folks that advocate for something other than your religion and those that not follow the right sunnah and those extreme minded hearts that have no real knowledge and those that considr themselves true liberals and reformers {innovoters} of this religion of yours and make us those that follow the correct path and stay orthodox to the last prophet peace be upon him and his sunnah and make us those that follow the middle way and guide us to your guidence Al-Huda and the Siraat Al-Mustaqiim inshallaah! Amiin. We keep the trust in you our protector as we live between hope and fear give us your blessings, peace, guidance and Towfiiq! Amiin.

Sorry I don't want to bring anything apart from the current debate to the discussion here but I've to note that people like Abwaan who are supporters of the court movement are now advertising love films to us? Can you see something wrong with it? I certainly can do.

Al-Hamdulillaah! As-salaamu calaa man ittabacal hudaa inshallaah! It is a well known fact that it is haraam according to the Shariicah and sunnah of this deen to initiate and greet a kaafir with the words of ‘As-salaamu calaykum’ or Peace be upon you in English language! Seeing that Imaam Malik rahimahullaah saw no problems in greetins kaafirs and being the initiater of the greeting, although the prophet clearly outlined that we should not be first to greet the people of the book and to reply to their salaam with ‘Wa Alaikum’ meaning ‘And you too’! That’s what the holy prophet peace be upon him said: Abu Basra l-Ghifari reported that the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "I will ride to the Jews tomorrow. Do not give them the greeting first. If they greet you, then say, 'and on you.'" Abu Hurayra reported that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "Do not initiate the greeting to the Jews or the Christians. When you meet one of them in the road, force him to the narrowest part of it." [Muslim] Another Agreed upon hadiith says the following on the instructions of how to reply to a greet by a non-believer and I quote: Anas reported that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "When the People of the Book greet you, say, 'And on you.'" [Agreed upon] by the two Shakhayn The above hadiith has been verified and it is saxiix (correct or agreed upon with no doubts in its reporting it’s chain) Tafsiir ibni Jalalayn says the following: And when you are greeted with a greeting, as when it is said to you, 'Peace be upon you', greet, the one that greeted you, with better than it, by responding to him with, 'Peace be upon you, and God's mercy and blessings', or return it, by saying back to him what he said; in other words, it is a duty to greet in one of these two ways, the former being the preferred one. Surely God keeps count of, He holds [you] accountable for, all things, and requites accordingly, including things such as returning a greeting. The Sunna specifies that one should not return the greeting of an disbeliever, an innovator, a wicked person, and of the one that greets a person who is in the act of relieving himself, or one in the bath, or one eating - indeed it is actually disapproved with the exception of the last. To the disbeliever [who says 'peace be upon you'] one should simply say, 'And upon you'. Furthermore in Adaabul Mufraid by Shaikh Bukhari it says: 'Abdu'r-Rahman said, "Ibn 'Umar passed by a Christian who greeted him and Ibn 'Umar returned the greeting. He was told that the man was a Christian. When he learned that, he went back to him and said, 'Give me back my greeting.'" So how come that Imaam Maalik says it is ok and not a problem to greet a kaafir first although the sunnah states it very clearly? Furthermore Muhammed Salih Al-Uthaimeen says that it is not permissible to initiate the greet by saying ‘As-salaamu Alaikum’ whilst other scholars say it is ok such as ibn Qayyim say that one could initiate the greeting (salaam), when one has got a need or in the event of hoping some one reverting to Islaam or close non-believing (kaafir) family members! The sunnah however clearly states ‘No’! Furthermore when the prophet Muhammed peace be upon him was writing to the kings and rulers of this world he greeted them with the following As-Salaamu calaa man ittabacal Hudaaa which means ’And peace be upon those that follow the (correct and true) guidance Al-Hudaa! He didn’t greet them directly with the Salaam as to the same prohibition that one cannot initiate Salaam to the kaafirs as it is clearly against the shariicah and sunnah! Furthermore the instructions is only to reply with ‘Wa Alaikum’, which is agreed upon reply but not with the salaam, the reason being that it is a dua (salaam does not only have the simple linguisticp meaning of ‘peace’ in this context but ‘It is also one of the Exalted Names of Allah, the source of peace and protection. Salaam is a greeting from Him‘. The greeting ‘Assalamu Alaykum’ is commonly translated as ‘peace be upon you’ and it means: May you remain safe from every pain, sorrow and distress. Qadhi Abu Bakr ibn al-Arabi (Allah have mercy on him) states:] “The word Salam is one the good names of Allah Almighty and ‘Assalamu Alaykum’ means: Allah Almighty is your guardian and caretaker. (Ahkam al-Qur’an). Furthermore it says: Due to this aspect of Salam, it is generally impermissible to use this form of greeting for non-Muslims. Imam al-Haskafi (Allah have mercy on him) states: “A believer may greet a non-Muslim (with the greeting of salam) if he has a need from him otherwise it is prohibitively disliked (makruh)Therefore, one should abstain from saying Salam to the disbelievers, for the Hadith says: “Do not commence by greeting the Christians and Jews with Salam. If you meet one of them on a pathway, force them to walk on the side” recorded by al-Bukhari. If a Jew, Christian or fire-worshipper greets you, then there is nothing wrong in replying to them, but one should not say more than ‘Wa alaykum’. On the other hand it also says: Allama Ibn Abidin (Allah have mercy on him) states by commentating on the above: “It is stated in al-Shir’a (name of a book) that when one greets non-Muslims, one should say: Assalamu ala man ittaba’a al-huda (may peace be upon the guided ones). The reason for this impermissibility of saying Salam to non-Muslims is to not show them respect. When one greets them for a need, it is not out of respect, thus permissible. (See: Radd al-Muhtar ala al-Durr al-Mukhtar, 6/412). Furthermore Imaam Bukhari again, the Shaikh says: Imam al-Bukhari records a Hadith in his Sahih on the authority of Anas ibn Malik (Allah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: If the people of the book (ahl al-Kitab) greet you, say in reply: Wa alaykum (and also on you)”. (Sahih al-Bukhari). On the issue of the prophet greeting a combined assembly of muslims and other non-believers it says the following: The author of Tafsir al-Mazhari states: “If a group consists of Muslims, Idolaters and Jews, one should greet them (with Salam), as mentioned in the Hadith recorded by al-Bukhari and Muslim from Usama ibn Zaid. However, the intention should be to say Salam to the Muslims (of that group) so that it does not entail commencing to greet non-Muslims”! Furthermore in Suurah An-Noor it says: "When you enter the houses, greet one another with a greeting from Allah (i.e. say 'As-salaam Alaikum') blessed and good." Salaam is a distinctive aspect of a Muslims social conduct. Greeting someone with Salaams is a kind of invocation for his welfare and blessings. It instills brotherly love and strengthens the ties of brotherhood and closeness, and mutual relationships result in a strong and unwavering society. It is reported by Abu Dawood in his ahadiith collection the following: Abu Hurayrah reported the Messenger of Allah said: "By Him in Whose Hand is my soul, you will not enter Paradise until you believe, and you will not believe until you love one another. Should I not guide you to something which will install love amongst you: 'Spread salaams amongst you.'" It is regarded by most Islamic scholars to be forbidden for a Muslim to return the Salam greeting of a non-Muslim in full Furthermore Imaam An-Nawawi says in his commentary: Nawawi (may Allaah have mercy on him) said in his commentary (14/144-145): The scholars agree that the greeting of the People of the Book should be returned , if they greet us with salaam, but we should not say to them, “Wa ‘alaykum al-salaam (and upon you be peace).” We should say only “ ‘alaykum (upon you)” or “wa ‘alaykum (and upon you).” Furthermore in his commentary he says and notes the following and here it is: The scholars differed as to returning the greeting of salaam when a kaafir initiates it or initiating the greeting. Our opinion is that it is haraam to initiate the greeting , but we have to return their greeting by saying “Wa ‘alaykum” or just “ ‘alaykum.” Our evidence with regard to initiating the greeting is the hadeeth of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), “Do not initiate the greeting with the Jews and Christians” and his command to reply by saying, “Wa ‘alaykum.” What we have mentioned as our madhhab or point of view is also the opinion of most of the scholars and the majority of the salaf! It is permissible to initiate the greeting when addressed to a group composed of both Muslims and kaafirs, or one Muslim and a number of kaafirs, but he should intend the greeting to be directed towards the Muslim(s) among them, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) greeted an assembly that included a mixture of Muslims and mushrikeen. I will never greet a kaafir by saying the salaam to him first as according to the Shareecah, so furthermore I will only reply to them as ordained in the shariicah by only saying to them 'Wa Alaikum' but not going further and establishing the full salaam because I believe one has to distinguish muslims and non-muslims from one another! I believe that it is impermissible to greet non-Muslims with the Islamic greeting of Assalamu Alaykum and that if they want to be greeted with the exclusive Islamic greeting that they have to join the religion of ours, really simple! On the other hand most of the kaafirs today use the salaam only mockingly like the jews before them so it is not permissible to allow the mockery of the religion and jesting by the non-believers by accepting their 'salaam' and on top of that making Duca for them! It comes down to the simple fact that the salaam was ordained by Allaah to the muslims, which muslims started using the greeting whereby before they were using what the 'pagans' and kufaar were using! So the salaam is only for muslims and if a kaafir comes and jestingly (why would they otherwise greet you with it) their reply should be 'Wa Alaikum'! As ordered by the prophet peace be upon him in the sunnah and ahadiith! So I say: As-Salaamu calaa man ittabacal Hudaa! Peace be upon those that follow the right guidance! Certainly the kaafirs are not the followers of the right guidance, so no salaam for them!

These folks are undoubtedly haters! I set them a challenge below and they couldn't deal with it! I gave them an explanation that made them veer and even simplified it for them but I guess comprehension is not on their side! I also dared them to find any faults with quote below but they could not! I showed them evidence of how it is used and what International System (SI) requires and my friend Samurai W was actually saying that the representation used in the article was a valid one used not only in the majority of European countries but the majority of the World except for English-speaking ones! I further highlighted what International system says as can be affirmed below and still they couldn't deal with it! I dare them to say that the representation used is not used in Europe and the majority of the rest of the world and bring their evidence and that it is by International System a wrong represenatation! I dare them but they will flop as usual I guess! I dare you to refute it with hard evidence! Not even our charted accountant did do that as he was putting the whole issue down to a difference of style that was the crux of the sitution but not that it was a misinterpretation as the two haters would like to distort the whole issue to! Samurai W himself was alluding that nothing was wrong with the representation as it is a European style to represent figures like that but the distorters would like to give the whole debate a new meaning but they have failed in their pity attempts of misrepresenting the issue, simple and they couldn't deal with it! Now do they have the bravery of saying out loud that the representation used in the article is not something used in many European countries? I dare them to do that and I shall answer them inshallah! You can read aswell and with a bit of thinking you might aswell get it but I doubt that the ignroant folks will! The two haters at it again! It is really hard to enage a mind full of hate as no reasoning with them can help. However, I will not try to make them admitt their shortcomings as they will not be fast to do so, because other things are holding them back but anyway I shall never the less try. I represent original thoughts, whilst the two above bilan now have nothing to add to the issue other than their pityful attempts to distort the issue here at hand! Atleaste the former tried to make a little bit of sense but he did not add anything sufficient to the debate, I shall await my uncle Samurai W to address my latest statement inshallah as I refuse the assumption that it is a mere difference of style! My uncle Samurai W was in total agreement with me and he put the issue down to be a mere difference of style rather then anything else! But I outlined to him quite rightly that according to International System (SI), large numbers/figures have to be grouped together in groups of three digits to determine their real value. Samurai W didn't say 560,000,00 was a misrepresentation but that he didn't come across such a style of representing figures before and thus didn't know how to interpret them or as he said he would say it represents 5.6 million but that he eventually 'learned' that it is a wide practised form of represeting figures in many countries around the world minus/except a few English speaking ones! This is the crux of the argument, Samurai W reinstating that, in fact he acknowledges that fact and in Europe a different style is used and that he says that 560,000,00 indeed means five hundred and sixt thousand! Now I expanded the issue and reminded him that it wasn't a difference of style what we are trying to figure out but what actually those figures represent and their values and as he didn't come across the 'european-style' before and didn't know how to interpret those figures at first hand, that I reminded him of the importance of the places/position of the commas/dots in relation to International System (SI) and how to interpret the meaning and value of such large figures! Moving on I said that IS requires for any large number/figure from 1000 upwards to be represented as groups of three digits to determine their real value! And here is it again: The comma, period, space, and apostrophe are examples of valid separators for units of thousands as shown in the following examples: 1 234 567 1.234.567 1'234'567 1,234,567 So to say that 100,000,00 represents 10 million is not only illogical but wrong aswell! It's clear it is required by SI that large numbers from 1000 upwards in our case 100.000.00 are represented as groups of three digits to determine their real value! So here dots and commas have in fact the same use and weight as they're valid separators for units of thousands, so the truth of the matter is that I'm right as I'm in tune with the SI! Hence 560,000,00 as alluded by my brother Samurai W indeed means five hundred and sixy thousand and nothing else, if you disagree with me would I kindly urge you to go ahead and do that with your explanation as I eagerly await it but I will doubt it that you will r(a)ise to that level by accepting this challenge because thick minded and retarded people made of hard rock cannot comprehend or understand facts of logic that are based on good judgement or reality! Deal with it but I doubt it you will be able too! Deal with the above if you can and refute anything that I've outlined above with couterarguments that actually have weight to them and some logic but I will doubt it that you can even come close in giving some sort of rebuttal as you have nothing to add to the issue other than speaking out of your back-side!

Ibtisam, You missing the 'and' bit or 'wa', you see that by saying Allaah said without adding 'and then' someone else said, you're actually committing a sin! So Allaah said and then prophet Muhammed peace be upon him said, understand? Ngongne it is true that we as muslims should not initiate the greetings of kaafirs, which is haraam, but when they say 'As-Salaamu calaykum' one should reply with 'wa calaykum' only which means 'and upon you' but not the full salaam! That is a valid hadith in Sahih Al Bukhari and Sahih Al-Muslim! The Prophet peace be upon him said: "Do not greet the Jews and the Christians with salaam." However, if they salaam first, we may reply by saying "wa alaykum" (and upon you)." (Bukhari and Muslim) I know that some of the scholars use the aayah in suuratu an-Nisaa such as from the Tafsiir of Ibn Abbas but to say and finish the greeting by actually uttering the words of peace isn't desirable! In fact on cannot wish salaam on the kuffaar! Let alone going over it by adding 'May Allah's mercy be upon you'! Also another hadith says: “Do not commence by greeting the Christians and Jews with Salam. If you meet one of them on a pathway, force them to walk on the side” recorded by Imaam al-Bukhari! If a Jew, Christian or fire-worshipper greets you, then there is nothing wrong in replying to them, but one should not say more than ‘Wa alaykum’. Remember the word 'Salaam' itself is one of the names of Allaah the glorified! It also says: Imam al-Bukhari records a Hadith in his Sahih on the authority of Anas ibn Malik (Allah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: If the people of the book (ahl al-Kitab) greet you, say in reply: Wa alaykum (and also on you)”. (Sahih al-Bukhari). This is the sunnah of the prophet peace be upon him. However he also greeted a combined gathering/conference of Muslims and non-muslims by saying 'Peace be upon you' but one should keep it in his heart to do the salaam on muslims only, so the prophet was technically addressing the muslims amongst them but not the kaafirs/kuffaar! "If the people of the book give you the greeting of peace, then say, 'Wa Alaikum (and upon you)." [al-Bukhaaree] Suuratu an-Nisaa says: 'When you are greeted with a greeting, greet in return with what is better than it, Or (at least) return it equally.' The scholars such bin Abbas say that the 'return with what is better than it' refers to muslims and the other bit of 'or return it equally to kaafirs! The above aayah reaffirms that muslims as prescribed from the sunnah and from the shariicah to greet Muslims by actually exceeding and greeting them better than what one was greeted with! The prophet peace be upon him also said that we shold not greet kaafirs first and to push the reply the greeting to its narrowest part! "Do not intiate the greeting with the Jews and Christians and his command to reply by saying, Wa alaykum." So if a kaafir says to me 'As-salaamu calaykum wa rahmatullah', then I will simply reply with 'Wa alaikum' but that doesn't mean that I'm wishing any mercy from Allaah as he's currently in his kaafir state! So yes I agree that we should not be silent about the greeting and narrow it to its smallest nominator by actually saying 'Wa alaikum', which means 'And you too'! So if a muslims says 'As-salaamu calaykum'! One should reply 'Wa calaykumu salaam waraxmatullah'! And if one is greeted with 'As-salaamu calaykum waraxmatullah' one should answer 'Wa calaykumu salaam waraxmatullaahi wa barakatuh'! It say's when greeted then that we should greet in return by saying the words that are uttered by the kaafirs! So does it mean if a kaafir says to you 'As-Salaamu Alaikum Wa rahmatullah' that you reply the same? No I would guess. Because you cannot wish peace and and the mercy of Allaah upon the kaafirs on someone who doesn't belief in Allaah the exalted! The islamic greeting is only for muslims and if kaafirs greet us with it then we simply reply 'And you too'! That is the right way from the sunnah of the prophet peace be upon him but it is not recorded in the sunnah that the prophet peace be upon him, that when he was greeted by the salaam that he replied with the full salaam! In fact he encouraged to only reply 'and you too' but by not actually saying the salaam on the kaafirs! That's what actually the sunnah says and kaafirs should not be subjected on the name of Allaah upon their disbelieving souls! So whenever a kaafir person says to you the salaam then we should not promptly, "Wa alaykum al-salaam (and upon you be peace). We should say only "alaykum (upon you)" or "wa alaykum (and upon you)." I will not offer the salaam first to a kaafir inshallah, that is absolutely and totally prohibited although Imaam Maalik sees nothing wrong with it! I will only reply "wa alaikum" but not with the salaam!

First of all Mr. JB, I'm not a Taliban! Nor do I support Al-Qeada! The chap that calls himself Taliban I have disagreements with him and soon I will highlight the faults of the extremists that the chap called Taliban represents! Al-Qeada is misguided but they'r our muslim brothers and we have to reason with them as they lack knowledge, good judgement/intellect and knowledge of the Siirah/Ahadiith of the prophet peace be upon him but that wouldn't matter to you because you don't belief in Allaah nor do you believe in the last prophet peace be upon him! So you cannot discuss with us on such issues Mr. JB self-confessed kaafir! Secondly Nuraddin Farah is not a kaafir and he is a muslim and our brother 'BOB' (Burhaan from now on inshallah) said that he will be investigating the issue inshallaah and that he will get to the bottom of it, understand? We muslims do not commit Takfiir on anybody for commiting acts of sins and there are shuroods for it, so please don't put me in the brackets of the extreme ones, understand? I have a valid point and contention, which you will not be able to understand, get it? Now go on with it.

Originally by Ibtisam: Evidence in Islam is (Allah said, the prophet said, the Sahab said and finally the scholars said) Sorry sister, but you're mistaken again. That is a wrong statement! How can you equal Allaah the great with the prophet peace be upon him and the sahaaba and scholars? You see, it's simple you're not on my level! First it is Allaah said, then Prophet Muhammed peace be upon him said! But do not equal Allaah to his creation by not adding 'then' or 'after that'! You get it sister? You see with me knowledge comes free, stay with me as you're going to learn a lot today inshallaah!

^Al-Hamdulillaah calaa kulli Xaal! I had originally not in mind to even entertain such widely and accessible knowledge as the one I outlined but I guess ignorance is bliss! It is a islamic duty for everyone to seek knowledge to regards to his deen but the brother and sister above seem to get their sources/knowledge from hear-say or rather they take out some random hadith without knowing what it actually says! Are they blind or what? lol. As the issue comes down to personal attacks I for sure know that the folks I'm 'debating' with here are truly blind caamo (ignorant folks), I have had the pleasure to educate many times before in our beautiful religion! Wasn't it you Ibtisam who said that it was 'OK to display sometimes doubts in ones religion as ***[Edited]'Everybody has doubts sometimes in his religion' and that there's no harm in doing so'! Maybe you can't remember it but I put you right on that, but let's hope the whole matter doesn't become a personal vendetta thing as the one with brother Northerner who brought politics into such matters as the one currently on 'contention' and I don't even know why? But the hadiith shown by Northerner is right but does it deal with the matter at hand or does it say that Muslims should greet kaafirs with replying 'Wa calaykumu salaam' like they would do to muslims? Does it? No is the answer! The whole thing becomes a farce. Ignorance is really a bliss! Show me please where it says that ***[Edited]kaafirs should be made dua upon by replying 'Wa Calaykumu Salaam' like they would do to a muslim? Are you dumb on top of being ignorant aswell? Subhanallaah may you be guided! The hadith only says if Jews say to you 'May death be upon you' you should reply 'Wa calaykum or in the singular 'wa calayka'! Now tell me what you have proofed/achieved? That muslims should reply when they're wished death upon by the jews that they should reply with 'You too'! Lol Totally irrelevant hadiith to the matter that is being 'discussed'! Oh the headache, are people really that dumb. Yes, when Jews come up and wish you death you should say 'You too' to them but we're talking about a whole another issue! We're talking about the etiquette of greeting kaafirs! So, no, you cannot say 'Wa calaykumu Salaam' to a kaafir like you would do to a muslim. So next time you see George Galloway and he says to you 'As-Salaamu calaykum' don't wish dua for him by saying 'Wa calaykumu Salaam' like you would say to a muslim because it is not permissible/allowed to do so, understand? Lol, give me a break! I can't take this anymore. You're not on my level walaalayaal not even close! You cannot be stubborn when you have been shown the truth or it came out of the month from somebody you don't like understand? So calm down kids and let me educate you! Follow me and ask me relevant questions but no too many please because that is not allowed again! You have to strife and educate yourself and after all avenues are exhausted you come to me and ask me, deal? Good one, I knew you would eventully come to your senses one day. Al-Hamdulillaah Calaa kulli Xaal! I thank Allaah the exalted for my prestige upbrining and that he gave me a good education in Islaam and made me not one of the ignorant and blind ones! Al-hamdulillaah! I'm grateful to Allaah the exalted the small amount of knowledge he has blessed me with! I cannot thank him enough! Also for giving me the intellect and good judgement to deal with those basic issues at 'contention here'! Al-Hamdulillaah.

^True brother he could have been misquoted or lied upon or he didn't express himself adequately with he meant with that statement of his! But I'm sure if you ask him you will get to the bottom of this issue and it could be due to ignorance rather than something else! Brother Xalane Al-hamdulillaah you are a good muslim brother, the best of man are those that acknowledge Allaah the exalted, when they are remined about him and his decrees and subsequently submitt themselves to him! Maashallaah! May Allaah guide us to the right path and forgive all of us and our sins and those of our parents and forefathers! Amiin!

***[Edited]^I know brother, Nuraddin Farah lives in South Africa aswell but the truth of the matter is that is totally and utterly inadequate and unqualified to talk about matters of this deen as being prove the nonsense that he talked about! We shall not accuse anyone of things they're not I agree with you, so people let's turn down a bit the assumptions, shall we? But to say that what Allaah the great has ordained isn't our dhaqan is an absolute act of craziness and jaahilnimo, which is also widely viewable and evident in his books! He displays very bad knowledge in Islaam in his books and he doesn't come across someone that has been blessed with a great deal of knowledge in Al-Islaam! What comes next that the seclusion of men and women aren't dhaqan Somali when everybody knows that genders don't mix in Somalia! Yes they come and speak to each other and don't hide but in our dhaqan, women cannot intermix with men and that is quite and widely acknowledged! The Jilbaab has been ordained by Allaah and it came down from seven heavens to be practised! Now to say that it wasn't our dhaqan only reiterates that the people back then weren't very knowledgable in such matters as knowledge and books of knowlede were scarcely available so that doesn't it mean because people didn't used it to wear or practise that it is a wrong thing to do now! Everybody has to refute such thinking along such lines because it is very dangerous and it also brings out the hypocrites that hate Islaam in our midst and to put fire on the whole issue to bring about confusion! It is a sad reality that people like JB talk about such matters although he clearly told me one to one that he's a kaafir a non believer and not even a muslim! Now such people jump on the bandwagon to support their 'dhaqan' for their ulterior motives, can you see it? This whole issue is a farce and Nuraddin Farah should educate himself about Islaam because he's truly someone who is not even blessed with Islamic knowledge in fact I would go as far to call him a utter and true badow or Jaahil!

What proof? Are you that short-sighted/minded? I knew that Islaam wasn't your best subject but the truth of the matter is that it's a non-starter! Every muslim knows that and it is like asking proof for zakaat, fasting in the holy month of Ramadan or going to Hajj and Umra, can you see it? Total and absolute non-starters. Khalas! Finito! Understand? I doubt it.

***[Edited]^The brother is a revert and I really don't know why you're pursuing him! He's a white young male in his mid/late twenties living in Canada of Irish descent, understand? It could be that his parent's haven't yet accepted the beautiful faith of Al-Islaam but we will supplicate for them inshallah that they too will revert if they aren't reverts already! Anyhow back to the thread, saying inshallaah is a islamic virtue that is ordained by Allaah the great and a virtue, muslims should not forsake! Muslims shall say it everytime when looking forward to things in the future or to happen! If you want to play soccer on next saturday and you want to ask your friend, you don't say 'Let's meet on saturday' without adding inshallah or godwillingly to it because you don't know what is going to happen to you and only Allaah knows it, so given that Allaahs wills it for you then you going to meet on saturday but if not then not, understand? So on the other hand I said it many times and no one should be paranoid about it or ashamed about it, as saying so only reitrates not only ones faith and believe in the predestined decree but the fact of your own incapability to forsee what is going to happen in the future as you're a mere mortal that could die any minute on the other hand Allaah might had not willed it for you as eveything is predestined and ordained by Allaah the great in his decree and only he knows what will surface in future! Originally posted by Shucayb: In another case, if a non Muslim says 'salamu calaykum' to you, you should respond, just as you would respond to a Muslim. Some of us have gotten the wrong idea, that you only reply with 'calayka' in that situation, but you don't. You're wrong brother! You cannot reply or wish salaam on a kaafir or make duca on him as you would to your muslim brother! If a kaafir says to you 'As-Salaam calaykum', then you have to reply to him 'Wa calaykum' or only 'calaykum'! Sometiems it is really unbelievable what comes out of muslims! Now they're saying kaafirs should be supplicated upon! No, Salaamu Calaykum or its reply Wa calaykumu salaam wa raxmatuallah is only for muslims but not kaafirs! Educate yourself on such matters before misleading the gallery here brother Shucayb! I had you down as a brother who was a bit knowledgable at least in comparison to the rest of the young folks here, who don't have much knowledge in regards to our deen! I guess I was mistaken! Don't you read simple books such as Hisnul Muslim? Obviously not because if you would then you wouldn't be saying such invention/immagination such as the above which only highlights your lack of awareness/knowledge in such basic matters and largely accessible basic knowledge! 'Reply to a non-believer like you would reply to a muslim'! How confused you're brother! So using such weak judgement based on low intellect and knowledge do you assume we can love kaafirs just as we do muslims? Brother that is wrong, Muslims and kaafirs are to be distinguished in every aspect including the salaam/greeting then! You should treat your muslim brother preferably then a kaafir, that's why the duca, don't you understand! You cannot make duca for a kaafir like you do for a muslim! You can ask for their guidance and that they eventually see and come to the truth and the right path but you cannot wish them a good life or supplicate upon them by making dua and saying 'Peace be upon you' (after all they're kaafirs who drink, gamble, fornicate and commit adultery) nor can you make duca for them such as you do for your muslim brothers and wish them Peace! How can you wish them peace, when they're kaafirs and do not have peace installed upon them unless they revert back to Islaam and the fitra again? I hope you see the logic and eventually come to your senses and give an apology for misleading/misinforming the young crowd in here!!

^The two haters at it again! It is really hard to enage a mind full of hate as no reasoning with them can help. However, I will not try to make them admitt their shortcomings as they will not be fast to do so, because other things are holding them back but anyway I shall never the less try. I represent original thoughts, whilst the two above bilan now have nothing to add to the issue other than their pityful attempts to distort the issue here at hand! Atleaste the former tried to make a little bit of sense but he did not add anything sufficient to the debate, I shall await my uncle Samurai W to address my latest statement inshallah as I refuse the assumption that it is a mere difference of style! My uncle Samurai W was in total agreement with me and he put the issue down to be a mere difference of style rather then anything else! But I outlined to him quite rightly that according to International System (SI), large numbers/figures have to be grouped together in groups of three digits to determine their real value. Samurai W didn't say 560,000,00 was a misrepresentation but that he didn't come across such a style of representing figures before and thus didn't know how to interpret them or as he said he would say it represents 5.6 million but that he eventually 'learned' that it is a wide practised form of represeting figures in many countries around the world minus/except a few English speaking ones! This is the crux of the argument, Samurai W reinstating that, in fact he acknowledges that fact and in Europe a different style is used and that he says that 560,000,00 indeed means five hundred and sixt thousand! Now I expanded the issue and reminded him that it wasn't a difference of style what we are trying to figure out but what actually those figures represent and their values and as he didn't come across the 'european-style' before and didn't know how to interpret those figures at first hand, that I reminded him of the importance of the places/position of the commas/dots in relation to International System (SI) and how to interpret the meaning and value of such large figures! Moving on I said that IS requires for any large number/figure from 1000 upwards to be represented as groups of three digits to determine their real value! And here is it again: The comma, period, space, and apostrophe are examples of valid separators for units of thousands as shown in the following examples: 1 234 567 1.234.567 1'234'567 1,234,567 So to say that 100,000,00 represents 10 million is not only illogical but wrong aswell! It's clear it is required by SI that large numbers from 1000 upwards in our case 100.000.00 are represented as groups of three digits to determine their real value! So here dots and commas have in fact the same use and weight as they're valid separators for units of thousands, so the truth of the matter is that I'm right as I'm in tune with the SI! Hence 560,000,00 as alluded by my brother Samurai W indeed means five hundred and sixy thousand and nothing else, if you disagree with me would I kindly urge you to go ahead and do that with your explanation as I eagerly await it but I will doubt it that you will r(a)ise to that level by accepting this challenge because thick minded and retarded people made of hard rock cannot comprehend or understand facts of logic that are based on good judgement or reality! Deal with it but I doubt it you will be able too!