Originally posted by Faynuus: quote:Originally posted by Aduun iyo aakhiro: Ofcourse from fellow somalis who have grievances with him or who simply disagree with whatever it is that he stands for or for what he failed to stand for ,i cannot defend. I did not loose any of my closest family members during the 17 years of civil war. Alxamdulilaah. Now, does that mean i do not have any grievances with Abdullahi yusuf and his likes who becouse of them, many perished, raped, maimed and made homeless? the answer is NO, I DO HAVE grievances, I disagree completly with him and words can not describe how much I detest him and all the warlords including the ones closest to me. The only thing i can do to support my fellow somalis who have fallen victims of this war is to grieve with them, denounce the unjustice done to them and hate their enemies as much as the mother who lost her sons, her daughters raped by ethiopians, her belongings looted and her grandkids starve to death infront of her very eyes. If that dear Aduun iyo Aakhiro makes me be without any ounce of dignity, so be it. The only person selling my flag to my enemies can not represent it at the same time. [/QB]You are right dear Faynuus. When a brother/sister is down ours is to side with them at all times. All i was protesting against was the cheering of a humiliation to all somalis while others think it will only be humiliting the warload president. I have a lot of respect for your position GOD BLESS.

Originally posted by Northerner: ^^ I have no problem in seeing this baffoon get a good old slap! All this nonesense about it effects Somalis etc is just that, nonesense! quote: Originally posted by AYOUB: quote: Originally posted by HornAfrique: Maxuu dhiigu la karaa dadka qaarkood marka la yiraa Yaay dharbaaxaa loogu mahad naqay? Don't know what's funnier; the reported "incident" or the nephews' reactions. I've never seen LST work so hard to extinguish a story. Xiin wants to "philosophise" what happen. Che cinjirkii baa ka boodday...fudhug!! Damn it's just a slap! His residence is bombed on a nightly basis and no one raises an eyebrow. He gets slapped and we all become agitated. Gotta love Somalis I honestly did not understand what you just said and how you think it is nonsense. What does "effects somalis" mean. Incase you failed to understand what i said maybe you need to read again before calling it nonsense. I dont mind my words being called nonsense for i do speak alot of nonsense but please tell us how you came to that conclusion ,if only to show us that you know what you are talking about.

Say it was true and he was slapped by a general ,what is so hilarious or good about it ? Wether we accept him as our president or not the world sees him as our head of our state and any shame from this action is not only on him but on all of us. Pathetic isnt it ? the unruly folks who will always stumble over their fallen brothers and are so devided that they actually cheer the degradation of their representative on the international stage. Is there a symbol that can unite a people who have fallen this low ? Human nature is such that even the most dysfunctional family who abuse their own members on a regular basis will be overpowered by emotions of love of empathy etc and will be jolted into action ready to defend by rebuffing or even agressing in order to protect the very ones they prey on all the time. Any individual with an ounce of dignity left in him would have been angered or hurt by such an action were it to have been true. On animal documentaries i watch, it never ceeses to amaze me how 100kg lionesses could kill 600 to 700 kg buffalos and in the midst of hundreds of other buffolos who simply run off to start grazing not a few metres away after one of them is GANGED upon, captured and is being fed on right before their eyes. Notice the stress on GANGED UPON. The buffalos could not only have defended themselves with ease ,if they were agressive and could organise themselves (like the lions)and form a hierachy, they would probably have wiped out the lions off the face of the planet . The same buffalo is so aggressive against other buffalos while competing for mates or pastures and may injure themselves or infect lethal wounds. What do you think is the answer to this riddle ? The family of lions is usually only a few adults and the herd of buffalos are too many to count yet the lions feed on them at will despite being less in numbers and weaker in strenght. In my opinion all that is going for the lions is the power to organise themselves. They litterally delegate tasks and work together to achieve their goal. Not by words like we do but still the fact is they manage to do it. People think that the lion is brave. Yes it is but it is not foolhardy and when they know that they cant do it individualy they work together otherwise they RUN just like every other wise being would have I have. Cabdullahi yussuf i dont like and if i could i would dethrone him today but i would defend him from any such acts from foreigners any time any where just like i would any other representative of our flag. Ofcourse from fellow somalis who have grievances with him or who simply disagree with whatever it is that he stands for or for what he failed to stand for ,i cannot defend. It is said if i can remmember rightly that when the ignorant and the weak of will lead then shall the end of man be near.(or something to that effect) That is now, for democracy is the rule of the ignorant and the weak of will.

Eventually there will be peace ,if not by compromise and cooperation then by total annihilation of each other. Ours is of course to choose which way to peace. Is it peace and life albeit the discomforts of compromise and the natural struggles that all living things must in order to survive ? or is it total peace of all somalia as in resting in their graves ? We have been hijacked by the insecure and the incompetent who are affraid of life and who believe not in discipline and hard work as the formula to a better life coupled by a system that will protect civil and property rights. What is brilliant is that we can all work towards the creation of a society that will truly be harmonic. That will allow each to become who they wish to be without any preconceptions, prejudice or harm to their self or property. To get there all we need to do is act on the maxim that wish for others as you wish for yourself. I think if we all refrained from letting the tribe be the judge and jury we should all be fine. I like many individuals on these somali websites non of whose tribes i know. In fact i would rather be friends with a different tribe somali who is bent on furthering their lives than my own tribesmen and family members who are lazy and whose intentions are dubious and whose actions are counterproductive. A significant number of somalis who choose justice and fairness is ,in my opinion, enough to change the course of our entire nation. Of course they must first find their voice, learn to speak freely for their stance and be targeted in their approach to solution. Congratulations to you for your you tube videos and to all those bloggers, article writers and to all those who actively debate ideas. You are already that force for change whether you all know it or not and posterity will be indebted to you and not to the Politian’s and warlords. Most somalis think that tribalism is cosy-it is warm, loving and life enhancing. Well it may have been once when nature was almost entirely unknown and unpredictable, but all it is now is a source for great evils and structural weaknesses in our national organisation that can not and will not stand the pressures of modern living and the new geopolitical climate of the world. The sooner we outgrow tribalism and restructure the better we shall become. Outgrowing tribalism is not the only solution for our problems but it is first and the most important step forward. Take a look at the work today , in general the most tribalistic ones are also the least progressive or the most backward. India would have been far ahead of china ,in my opinion ,if not for their cast system (tribalism). Corruption is of course rampant in tribalistic societies than it is in those societies that don’t practice tribalism. Tribalism is of course the fertile grounds on which corruption breeds and we all know that corruption and related problems are the cancer that eat away on most of the third world countries. Somalia belongs more to the young than it does to us the old and you must then learn to claim back what is yours and be vocal about it not violent.

Brothers i agree with both of you. Anybody in here a fun of bbc radio 4 ? I am anyway and they have some very good and informative programmes. They had one on intuition not too long ago and i got the idea that intuition is really from knowledge accumulated through experience. What do you think ? I think that this idea is probably not right since it wont explain some of the examples such as the elephant and the turtles which could have had no prior experiences on which to base their new knowledge.

Adam zayla Maasha ALLAH this is certainly one the most interesting topics and i shall make time in order to read it all insha ALLAH.

Positive I couldnt agree with you more saxiib . You are fighting the right war and for the right reason. May GOD bless your efforts aamiin. Our brothers and sisters are by and large unaware of the root causes of our problems and their wriggles in ana attemp to free themselves from the cluchtes of chaos and consequences only thightens the knots and disables them and all the rest of us even more. I will set time aside and insha ALLAH read all of the story. THANK YOU FRIEND

Appologies to nephthys Caf iyo masaamax wa aduunyo, anaguna binu aadan baan nahay. Waan khaldamay. Wanaag RABI hortaada hadigo aamiin. macasalaamo

odey saxiib thank you and safar salaama. I posted a short comment on that very interesting topic and meant to post a more detailed one insha ALLAH but going into it revealed to me that that i needed alot more data than i had. I also got carried away and thought that i could even do better by producing three dimentional images of realistic projections of what can be achieved but it all got too large and data is not very easy to come by especially to me (am not computer literate as most of these youngsters than can digup all sorts of imformation) Anyway i thought if i could get my hands on data about the landscape ,rainfal parterns ,tupes of soil and types of crops that can be grown in the different parts of somalia and groundwater supplies and so forth ,that i could actually produce a likely scenario in a 3d short film (i believe there are softwares that can do that and i am still looking into it, there are good videos on youtube as well that show how GIS planning workd ) that will lead to efficient use of our resourses. In short it will probably take me a very long time but i think i'll try .

Somalinimo MY VIEW Who can be said to be Somali and why ? As far as I know there are three ways in which one can be classified to be Somali or not. LINEAGE We Somalis trace our lineage down and up our men. This is called patrilineal decent system. This means that up the line, we are or we know ourselves by who our fathers are or were and we also give our children a group identify accordingly down the same line. So a Somali is then he/she whose father is or was a Somali. What happens to children born of Somali women then ? Well if they happen to be of Somali men at the same time then there is no quarrel but if they happen to be of a foreign father we are then forced to find a different qualification. SPATIAL ORIGIN We also have a designated space or land in the form of country and so anybody who can trace their origins to this land is also a Somali. The criteria then shifts to the next deciding factor -namely where they were born. As regards culture or the norms ,anybody who can trace their origins back to Somalia should then be seen and accepted as Somali. However ,we also have conflicting interests and legal procedures so in order for one to legally be able to claim his/her somalinimo more qualifications are necessary. OUR COMMON LANGUAGE Somali language is another deciding factor as concerns culture in deciding whether one can be said to be Somali or not regardless of land but in part dependant of lineage, I think. So those that speak Somali and find themselves on the other side of our boundary line can claim to be Somalis and that those boundaries set by the colonialists can deny them not of this claim. This argument is highly dependant on the fact that we were one and that those lands were unjustly given away and kept away from us by the colonialists. So what if another were to learn Somali from a far away country with no shared culture and/or diin ? It seems that however good or fluent they become in Somali if they do not supplement that with, say a common culture with us or can trace their lineage back to us, we will not grant them somalinimo and accept them as one of us. So the somali language is one of the deciding factors but a supplementary one and cannot be the sole criteria on which one can base their claim and win . In short, language will help but it wont make you a Somali by itself. THROUGH LEGAL PROCEDURES Since a nation entails the land and those that populate it , it can then be said to be alive and kicking . In other words ever changing . The people replace each other all the time. Some die others are born to replace them. Generations, which can be said to be roughly a period of 30 years each, also replace each other thereby bringing new ideas and new ways of doing things which in turn change culture over time. The land boundaries can also change ,some parts may seek autonomy and part to form a new nation. Others may be brought together by necessity or choice to form a larger nation and so on. The nation must then have procedure whereby people may either join our nation or depart from it if they should wish so. The laws that will enable this process must then be agreed upon and set before hand in order that it may be clear to all as to what they will either gain or lose by their choice. We know that all human beings are born somewhere and in most cases that is also where they grow up and call home. This is even more so(home) when ones parents were also born and bred there and no one can then refute as to their just legal claim in identifying themselves to be from that land. In our case ethnicity and the land or country happen to carry the same name I.e. Somali for the people and Somalia for the land so anybody who was born and bred in Somalia reserves the right to call themselves Somali, even when their lineage or roots have not been firmly grounded in our soil. However we shall still try and trace the proper boundaries for the sake of justice and harmony among ourselves and for our beloved nation. THROUGH BIRTH Those that were or will be born in Somalia and are of foreign parents but removed and grew up elsewhere can naturally not lay any legitimate claim to Somalia. However, those that were born and bred in Somalia and are of foreign parents but intend to live in Somalia for the foreseeable future, reserve the right to call themselves Somalis should they choose to do so and must then be accepted and granted equal access and say. Those who were born in Somalia and one of their parents is Somali -regardless of which one -but grew up abroad can obtain their nationality upon request without further ado. If they hold a different nationality ,they must however check if that nation allows dual nationality in case they should also need to keep their former nationality. If the parent through which he/she claims linkage is the father then the claim is also in harmony with culture and our diin is also appeased (assuming that he did not leave Islam) If the link is through the mother , I’ll have to reminder you here that matrilineal decent disqualifies one from any claims of belonging as far as culture is concerned and maybe diin as well, if her husband is not a muslim. However when it comes to legality its different and many a times the law and culture or diin divert in order that all may be accommodated. Those that have no known links to Somalia ( be it spatial ,cultural or through lineage) and still wish to be part of us should also be allowed to do so. The processes and procedures which must be followed to this end are for the government of Somalia to decide but be assured that it is of every Somalis responsibility to read ,understand and either voice their objections or affirm their consent. Please correct me or point out any omissions. Anyone can also add anything they deem necessary. MAHADSANIDIN KULIGIIN.

Odey waan kusalaamay and thanks for the comment How so true, we are not mature enough and we are in transition, however saxiib the direction and/or the destination of is not certain yet. We do know that our mores have greatly contributed to our downfall and that we must change in order that we may even survive but for the change to be favourable to us (for it to be for the good of all) we have to actively participate in the shaping of the future somalia. ps saxiib what is kudos We fail this and the transition may be from very bad to worse. We succeed and it may go the other way; from very bad to better. There are of course plenty of ways to affect change either in oneself or in others around him/her. Before any action can be taken we must first come to a general consensus(in other words incorporate it into our culture) as to what the good is for us and what the bad. By good i simply mean that which supports life and makes it worth living and by bad i mean that which destroys it. Unfortunately if we dont try to steer our culture its derection and destination can never be guaranteed. Like i said what we each do as individuals and as a society can be changed. Two ways to affect change that i like are preaching and playing the role model. To preach ,i simply mean that we actively seek to furthur our ideas by word of mouth ,blogging ,in forum discussions and at our local neighbourhoods. Playing the role model is in my opinion more effective for you will also carry with you the aura and it will speak for you louder than you can imagine. When one is playing the role model one is commanding respect and when one is just telling one is in fact wasting their time for their must be a unity of action and intention for any message to carry any weight and thus pull others by the force of gravity. You have probably witnessed either on tv or in real life how those dysfunctional families live like. Say the parents smoke drink and may even be on drugs and they wish their children not to venture into that territory. Since they have themselves lost all will power to change their course they then resort to merely yelling at their children to make them comply with their wishes. But the child not only will not get the intended message i.e. that drugs etc are bad ,but the wrong message i.e. that it is ok to be devided within. Its ok to have a disunity of action and intension. They are here not bringing up a human being but breeding a beast because the child will have to heads. In short saxiib odey we can change the direction of this juggernout. To do that all we have to do is stand up for what we believe is right for us as somalis. We shun tribalism ,lazziness ,we encourage our younsters to get educated and skilled ,we tell them that they must hold the institution of marriage as sacred and be responsible parents ,we ask them to identify themselves with decency and abide by the law and we have to somehow drive the message home that we have everything in common and almost no difference and we thus must see each other as brothers and sisters. Finally we have to get them to appreciate diversity for it was ALLAH that made us all different and besides imagine if all was the same ....its so scary that one will kiss the wild beast just get away from such a world. It will will mean no women ,no children ,no plants ,no anything to be precise for there will only be one thing. I'll personally take differences any day as compared to everything being similar.

Originally posted by MyOwnBoss: God it is too long ... And it is crazy as well saxiib. Radical .You are doing yourself a favor by not reading it but if you do you can do me a favor and correct me where i go wrong ?

Positive you have a good point there walaal. Those that we support with all our spare income or even sometimes borrow for them will not only ask us as to what we have been upto all these yeas and why we are broke but i have no doubt that most will not recirocate the favours should you find yourself needy. Other cultures would probably not have done anywhere near what we have for our loved ones back home and most of those back home have taken this for granted and are not appreciative anymore. Some of them use our money to chew of caad or qaad while we dare not do the same. I once told some of my own family when i was back at home for a holiday that i will start using qaad and guess what they said "Noooo you cant do that ,please dont ever think of that again" The reason is quite clear ,they know if i start chewing qaad i wouldnt be able to work and they would then not get any money from me. I will be probably be the one needing money for no income and an addiction to maintain is not a good combination. I do think that we should lessen if not stop altogether and start taking care of number one. Anyway freind you havent been active for a while i hope all is good with you aamiin.

My thoughts on the developement of somalia. I recommend skipping the first three paragraphs. They are only meant to draw a picture of the reality of the word in order to strenghten the need to work together as opossed to defending the boundaries of personal spaces etc Since time immemorial ,man has had to struggle to survive. Everywhere man turns ,dangers awaited him. Man has not only had to defend himself from nature, other animals, ignorance and his own base instincts but also his fellow citizens -HIS brothers and sisters. It is truly amazing and miraculous, if you ask me, that man has even managed to come this far. Like all other living things man has had to change, as it were , to survive in his ever changing environment. What is even sad now is that ,in my opinion ,the changing circumstances are changing so fast that those like us who have not been keeping pace with change will have a bumpy road a head and a very steep hill to climb. Furthermore, those that keep pace with change have emerged superior in many ways than one and sadly they have chosen to use this as an advantage to command ever-increasing share of the necessities of life. Whether this is just or not ,fair or not ,right or not is here not the question but the failure to see that things could be different for everyone and that access to is more important than acquisition and that most of the wealth that the world has to offer is getting buried even deeper by our ways rather than it being liberated. Among the different ways Somalis live are. First those that were lucky enough to have come to the west. One , those that have given up on it and chosen to leave responsibility for their upkeep to the state. Two ,those that have not accepted defeat and have decided to do something about it ,only to find out to their shock that they are at disadvantage . This is because most of us have joined into a highway ill-equipped and badly designed (not by ALLAH ,I mean by environment) We neither have the knowledge or skills nor the discipline for this high speed life. We are like old cars on this highway ;we cannot keep up with the speeds and our drivers don’t have the skills or knowledge to manoeuvre safely ,so we get crushed either way. Among those that were unfortunate enough to get stuck in the war zone. Well the children have neither had schooling not good parenting ,so most of them know only one way and that is to act on base instincts in order to survive. Their elders are no different. Whatever they learnt from their scanty knowledge of diin and of dunya has probably by now been eroded by constantly being tense and on defence and by having to repeatedly act against their conscience. The instinct to survive is more powerful than you would imagine. What of those youngsters who were brought up abroad ? Are our youngsters going to follow our lead ? So far they seem to have done just that and not only them but also those that are still coming have got to have superman qualities in order to break off from the grooves or trenches that we (the earlier generations) have created for them. I am here on about mental grooves that are constantly being created or deepened every time we continue or choose not to counter the very mores (accepted customs-social conventions) that have probably single headedly devised our demise . How to get over our problems 1 WORK We have not yet realised or come to accept the virtues of work. We of course refers to the majority in case one should choose to jump up and refute me. Working for a living is in accordance with justice; in order to live justly one has to exchange something (a product or a service) for what one needs and out of this arrangement everybody is truly better of. Specialisation takes hold thereby multiplying the range of goods that are available to us and their quality and quantity as well. Naturally a reduction in prices follows and the buying power shops up thus lifting the majority of Somalis our of poverty. This will then create a society that is on the move up up and up. Their morale is lifted ,their health is better, their wealth is better ;they might as well grow wings and fly for growth will then be almost perpendicular. No more growth rate graphs that are either steep slopes or zigzags or at best show a gradual increase over a millennium. Work is also a great builder of character. So an entire nation can move forward rather than stagnate and deteriorate because rather than each acting as an anchor that holds his brothers and sisters down and the entire nation as well in due time, each is contributing his worth and accruing any just claims gotten there from. We must not only cultivate this ethic in us but also work to instil it into our offsprings so it will be as natural to them as is walking. Walking is only natural because the will has learnt to overcome our natural tendency to rest and seek the easy way out. Every step forward is the result of labour ours is to turn that labour into effort I.e. a consciously exerted labour. For our sake the subconscious mind has taken over the task of propulsion and we thus come to believe that we walk without effortlessly. Likewise by instilling a work ethic ,the subconscious mind will take over this task in time and all will get done effortlessly insha ALLAH. 2 RULE OF LAW Rule of law is then the next in line on our road to prosperity. No nation can be governed arbitrarily by whims. In nature we learn the value of regularity and constancy. These lead to predictability and thus the freedom to plan ahead, to organise your resources (including your time and effort ) in such a way that they may serve you better in the betterment of your life ,lifestyle and living conditions as well as your opportunities. Laws then must not favour any particular individual or individuals, be they organisations , tribes or even religions. You have to accept that here on earth we are all free as long as we wont infringe on the equal freedoms of the others. It is not an accident that that those lands that practice political and economic freedoms also enjoy better health ,have more choices in products and services and at a lower price as well as at a lower cost to the society as a whole and thus find themselves at the top of the food chain. So in short to all of you cry out for liberty, fraternity and equality of opportunity and look to prosperity with an admiring eye and at the same time shout death to people like Ayan hirsi ,this is probably an opportunity for you to think things through and I am certain that as you dig deep into your souls you shall find that you were wrong. Being wrong is human ,being stubborn is inhumane. In case some of us failed to put 2 and 2 together, rule of law necessarily means the surrender of our self defence to an organisation and this we call a government. We have to either put our faith in our ability to govern ourselves and delegate tasks and responsibilities to our own institutions and trust them to do it properly or we choose chaos and the resulting deaths and destructions. Ultimately it will boil down to faith and our word. Faith in the ability of GOD swt to guide and rescuer us and in the ability that HE has already granted us to better our lives. Our word means our agency. This simply means our freedom to choose in combination with our will to act on our choices. We promise to do things and we therefore have the obligation to fulfil that promise. We have to focus and direct our energy in order to do that. In this case we choose to live by the law and we direct our energy only after consultation with the requirements of the law so that each may get the necessary space to grow in which ever direction he/she chooses. And that is more brotherly than empty hugs and rhetoric. Who is my brother or sister ? It is he/she who upholds justice and seeks to trade with me fairly and squarely, it is he/she who boggles their minds and strains their muscles in order to produce things that may be of interest to me and I the same in order that we may be both better off, and finally it he/she that understands the boundaries of competition and compassion and embarks on either according in a spirit that is life affirming rather than life destroying. The words of our national anthem come to mind here and this is how it goes, “somaliyay toosa oo isku tiirsada hadba kiinii taag daran taageera waligiin.” I mean competition in health and cooperation against weakness. 3 GIVING WAY TO EFFICIENCY Between life and death lies efficiency. The more efficient anything is the less wear and tear ,the less the waste and thus the longer the lifespan and so is the opposite also true. The best way to efficiency in the provision of the lifesaving necessities that I know of, is standardisation. If we all agree that the most necessary things to life are shelter, water and food followed closely by healthcare and education( you may choose a different order of precedence if should so prefer) then in order that we may all benefit from these things at an affordable cost to us as individuals and as a society as a whole ,we have then no choice but to sit and discuss ,debate and deliberate on the best way to do this. Before you get aroused and suspicious that I have a communistic agenda up my sleeve, I shall remind you nothing good can come out of absolute chaos and that everywhere you look especially in the developed world the thing that will strike you most is that almost everything here in the west has in fact been planed. Look at the streets ,the parks , the motorways ,the railway lines ,the airports etc etc. In planning, one has to take away freedoms in order that greater freedoms or more important freedoms may be attained. Take for instance the motorways. In order that all may get the opportunity to transport either their selves or their goods at significantly faster speeds , they must also give up the freedom to use that allocated land for other purposes e.g. walking , grazing, building houses on or even recreational purposes. Life is all about giving and taking after all and how better to live than to give up the small or insignificant for the big or the profoundly significant. Remember in most cases one is not really giving up anything for whatever could be done with that piece of land could also be done with a different piece of land . Its just a matter of exchanging one for another and as a bonus getting a lot more. So in short ,in order to organise ourselves in such a way that we may live well and in a sustainable manner ,we must then build our houses ,our streets and our highways ,our water supplies and our farms in such a way that will simplify the processes and cut down the costs. Streets should be as straight as possible and as wide as possible. This is in order to facilitate an easy and fast installation of services such as cables and pipes that will bring us necessities and take away from us waste. Houses must be build only upon receipt of a planning permission. The government should have the permission to plan farms and work on a plan to empower the citizens by enabling the acquisition of skills and it must also accumulate and seek to provide them with the necessary knowledge. Because of the dire need of capital and the fact that the west have nothing to offer other than deception, rip-off loans and outright exploitation ,we ought to turn to china for capital as in loans and machinery as far as is possible. To supplement that we ought to give up on external defence and if and when possible we ought to sign treaties and declare unconditional peace to all and place ourselves under the un if that is even possible. Since capital is not as usually thought money but the ability to execute tasks efficiently, empowerment of the people should be the goal rather than favourable exchanges or the acquisition of foreign currencies. Before anybody reminds me that capital is also land and everything from the land ,let me remind you that many of the richest nations have either not been blessed with any such or have long depleted their’s so should they then not have been severely handicapped by poverty. If all capital does for somebody is to enable them ,this is to mean that they have accumulated enough energy and skills that they may be able to execute with efficiency any task at hand, capital then need not be money. Money is only capital when the real capital is lacking-the ability to do execute with efficiency. In order to get that ability firstly as I explained above we shall seek to trade with china for the bare necessities and secondly we shall create soldiers not to defend from foreign powers but from our internal weaknesses resulting from nature be it ours or our environment. They will be the enablers-our capital-for now. Our capital will then grow to full empowerment of the citizens to get them to maturity I.e. educated, skilled ,civilised, brotherly towards each other, to have mastered the delicate balance of competition and cooperation and finally to the formation of institutions. Our soldiers will then be the hero’s that will defend us and broaden our opportunities. They will be the ones that will build our nation from the bottom up. They will build our roads ,our railways ,our Power Stations, they will forest our land by planning and planting trees , they will build our schools and universities and our public houses ,they will come to the aid of any farmer who is ailing and help put him/her back on track to efficiency and profitability and much more insha ALLAH. They ,like the soldiers of today will receive maintenance for as long as they are in this service but their rewards will be honour and we shall honour them and Where are we then leading ? With the above formula I believe we shall all be heading for prosperity . This is not all that can be done and I am sure some of you can come up with better plans to not only be a nation again but a great nation. All criticisms are very welcome except name calling and cursing I know we can all do better than that. Before I go I have to confess that I have not the backing of an orderly formal education although I read as many books as I can. So this is just simply my opinions guided by the need to find lasting solutions to our problems.

Thanks for the reply xiin. I have just realised that i may have put words in your mouth and that you did not say what i had concluded to be your position. Sorry for the mistake if that was so. In order to get out of this mess i believe that the citizens ought to choose to do things only by peaceful means. They must first accept that violence will only breed more violence and that the government has the only authority to use force and that can only be against those that break the law and even then with limited agreed upon ways. We must rest our faith with our government in order that it may learn to honour its responsibility and be held accountable to them. That set aside ,if the government then oversteps its boundaries and is blatantly evil and destructive against inocent people ,i am sure somalis will all unite and with the help of the international community we will then triumph. Everybody including the international community can now not discern wrongs from rights and credit either goes to the wrong party or is left undecided and we continue to suffer. Although my knowledge of somali politics is very limited-i avoid it on purpose- i personally do not think that revenge played a part in any of what has been happening. We can all differ in opinions and still be brothers. If we all had the same ideas we wouldnt be of any use to one another. I will leave you all to continue. My limited knowledge in this field allows me no further than my opinions and i have expressed them. Like it has been said "hadii aan lakala roonaan roob ma da'o" and we can only pray for now. ILLAHOW FARAJ NOO FUR AAMIIN.

Welcome back. I am AA. Male. Hope you can fit right in to our welcoming community.By the way i am new. Wali bacdaydii baan qabaa.lool

Originally posted by Nephthys: dude, ^^ is the biggest croc of shidh ever spoken since languages were developed. I really hope I misunderstood your post..I really do. :rolleyes: Had we not all agreed on the terms and conditions to deal with each other as civilized individuals, had the admins here not formulated those boundaries of which we must not cross in order that we may avoid chaos similar to what our brothers-in somalia - have forced us all either to live in and perish or flee and seek refuge with strangers. Need you still to be convinced that insults and name calling lead to people talking past each other if not worse. If you should have any counter arguements and a viable plan for deliverance from our self imposed misery lets all hear them. If not then quit sending fellow somalis to their death and spare the rest of us the agony of seeing our loved ones perish day in day out and beloved country destroyed,poluted and pillaged. We are loosing more than you can ever contemplate and you fire from a position of total self imposed blindness. Letting yourself be led is not a dishoner ,however leading yourself to one pitfall after another is undignified and unbecoming of any human being. Let yourself be led and live to see tommorrow or keep on walking blinded by emotions and tribal allegiances and tumble one over another into your graves. You choose while you still have the choise for the gateway is about to close. Aaah look its daylight outside ,isnt it time to wake up and stand up and go after your interest laying aside any inherited preconceptions and prejudices. When cities like liondon and many others can accomodate the equivalent of more than the entire population of somalis and still consume much more than we would or can and their porest is probably wealthier than our average citizen back home in terms of both what is available to them and how much they can buy, is it not then a disgrace to squabble over what can be gotten by begging. If they all had iimaan in their ability to provide for themselves i bet not of this would have gotten out of hand.

GJ goeate Saxiib i see that we differ in opinion but since the land is governed more by the rebels, to your liking, we have no choise but to keep on this track. My views cannot be put to practice anyway but had they been given a chance we would not only have saved many lives but also improved our living conditions a lot.

I have to side with brother xiin that in order to win the war you must sometimes GIVE UP the fight or fighting in our case. And again he has also rightly diagonised the problem correctly in saying that our weakness and all the evils it has inflickted upon all of us is entirely due to our disunity. Were we unified we would neither have had the ethiopians in nor would we have had the war in the first place. What has prolonged this war this far is again unfortunately due to our lack of unity. Everybody knows that you cant have a nation without being unified. In my opinion, although the best unity is benevolence towards each other. But that is not easily achived and the next best option is then self interest limited by law. The law must ofcourse then be an embondiment of justice or justice mapped, agreed upon and enforced. Dictatorships erode the very bonds of unity in order that they may stay in power so also did our last kaligi taliye. Again from our standpoint now ,if our goal be survial, we have very limited choises and the best one is , in my opinion ,for the shacab (citizens)to give up violence as a means of pursuation. In fact i would say the only thing perpetuating this horror as is the violent rebelion. Somalidu waxay kumaah maahdaa dantaada maqaar ay xataa waa loogu jiiftaa. So we must put our pride aside and our head or even better, our heads together and do the right thing; choose to do things in a radically different way. We must choose for peaceful means. Alot of very seriuos violations in the history of mankind have been overcome by this means and it does work. It freed India and it won the american blacks their civil rights if i remmember correctly. To do things differently has many advantages over winning wars by violent evictions. Firstly ,it strenghtens determination and the will, it also grounds man firmly into reality and thus opens up new windows of opprotunity and finally it halts any future repetions of wars for who will ever risk the expenses involved in terms of loss of lives ,of property and of opportunities when determination and peaceful demonstration can deliver the same results much much more efficiently. Anyone that can see this will never ever dare risk the lives of somalis anymore. It is simply wrong and sinful to do otherwise. You will not only have let down your own brother by not looking for better ways to solve this problem but you will also share personally in any evil that comes out of any continued war had you not supported peace when it was a viable option. The dynamics of a society are directed by those that choose to interact. Those that do so consciously -i mean with a purpose in mind -will be the shepherds and the rest the sheep. He that knows or is wise, is like a shepherd that surrender his sheep to the wolf. Those that guide the sheep to the slaughter houses are not only the warloads who preach of love for their respective tribes and vow to protect them if they can promise commitement as slaves to themselves but also those, and even worse maybe, that beat the drums for them and be their loudspeakers by echoeing after them. I am also not blind, deaf and dumb to the atrocities commited by our government but that is again partly to blame for the rebelion, for without it the government would not have been fighting so desperately and indiscrimately to stay in power or keep the order as they would like to tell us and the world. We all know that this government is just as bad as the war loads or the rebels but accepting it and working with it will undoubtedly be more to our favor than working against it. Finally my own fear is such that should we fail to support this government we are at a great risk of loosing our sovereignty for good and i meant it. We stand to be occupied and ruled by a foreign power forever simply because we will not accept to be ruled by one of us but of a different tribe. You think that i am just a fearmonger ? think again for history tells of many occupeid lands whose natives have either been wiped out or caged in to live in reservations. Others are still fighting even after some sixty years.

If the voice of posterity could slip back through time and whisper into our ears as we persecute ,i have no doubt as to what it would say.

If this is not madness and those that threaten her life are not criminals i am truly at a loss .....i just dont understand. In the ancient times when GOD swt sent us messengers to warn us or those before us that they were on the wrong path ,they bowed down to idols. Idols are not GOD and so could neither defend themselves nor those that put their faith in them. We are now supposedly much cleverer than them for we believe in GOD and only bow down to HIM. But GOD swt sent us scripts in order that they may guide us. They tell us how to obey HIM and live as HE wishes us to. If the scripts cant protect themselves by providing us with truths that are clear and valid for all times to the intended purpose then ought we also not to protect it by means that in all honesty will invalidate the whole purpose for it all. Idols needed defending for they were not the true GOD ,does GOD ALLMIGHTY need defending ? Not if you are going to claim that GOD is allmighty ,the creator of all that is ,the sustainer of the universe ,all seeing and all hearing. We dont defend GOD for those that we are defending HIM from are also creatures of HIM and we can only defend islam by proving that whatever evil or wrongs is claimed of it is in deed false and that is how far it all goes. We can only defend our own persons by the same methods and our bodies we defend by avoiding physical harm . In conclusion she is wrong to claim falsehood of islam but ours is to prove her claims false and not to violate her. Those that threaten her are in fact more wrong than she is. peace

Brother nur Thank you for your da'wa may ALLAH swt reward you aamiin. May he give you a qalbi nuur ah.

Waryaaya ilayn meesha waxaa ubadan dhalinyaro. Fb ayaan hada iska soo dhiwaangaliyay laakiin waxaa iga su'aal ah maxaa dhacay websiteyada somaliyeed inta fb laga helo waa laga helaaye kama fududayno in aan inta iskubarano inta meelahaas kale laisla aadayo. Gabdho saas u qurxan inay sol kujiraan uma malaynine seewaye walaidhuuntay. Goosha odayaasha ayaan anigu uhaystay meeshaan. Mardhow wa in aan kacaraabo oo odayaasha aan isku facanahay raadsado.

If anyone has missed the interesting debate on WHO IS IN CHARGE on the cnbc channel ,you can still watch it on thier website. It is very interesting and i think you can here some of the opinions of influential people in our world today. http://www.cnbc.com/id/22669049 On the economic developement of somalia i think that freemarket is or globalisation is a scam deviced by the west to further enslave the poor nations and should not be allowed to operate in somalia or any other developing nation. My world view is of nations as entities and as such ,they must first develope themselves before they can trade with other nations. There is supposed to be a domestic market and an international market. The domestic market must be free in the sense that people and companies be allowed to compete within the national boundary for the domestic market only with regulations based on justice for all concerned and only after that is fully served can they then export and compete for the international market with their surplus produce. The idea that capitalist from developed nations should be allowed to compete on an equals basis for the only resources that these poor nations have while lacking the maturity and stamina that ought to make them formidable competitors is the biggest injustice perpetrated by the world bank and the imf and those that benefit from treachery on such a gross scale. In order for a people to live within their means and at the same time to live within the ability of the ecosystem that sustains them to keep on sustaining them ,they must grow to maturity not from being pumped up with growth hormones and steroids but naturaly drawing on their experiences as well as from the experiences of others before them and apply that to the problems that are unique to them. But they must nevertheless be the ones doing the growing up. The west has mesmerised the entire world by unprecedented growth that is almost a fairy tale, powered they claim by capitgalism and free market. But is that then really the case ? I dont think so ! It is true that since the industrial revolution the western world has achieved unprecedented levels of growth in almost all fields except justice and this has resulted in a world that is top heavy (that is if the top is to be the west). The world is terribly misshaped and that is by itself causing alot of misery by their ability to pull by force of gravity as well as physical alot of goods and services of which in my opinion they are not entitled to. Going back to the idea that capitalism and free markets are the engines that have propelled the west to their prominence and prosperity and this can then be replicated for the rest of the world should they only but open up their resourses to the same forces is not only wrong but also misleading. The only thing that can be attributed to this madness they call capitalism and free market can be equally said to be caused by the underlying current of religious vallues of justice ,industry ,frugality and thrift and of abiding by contracts stemming from the virtues of keeping promises. Capitalism and free market have indeed then not advanced humanity but in reallity held it back. What would the world have looked like then were the forces of capitalism not predominet ? They would like to scare us to even contemplate such questions but i am of a strong belief that the world would in fact have been a beautiful place to live in. The mercantile system tha preceded capitalism can arguably be said to be the cause of most of the evils of the world as we now know. The idea that money was the precious metals which settled on gold and silver as the mediums of exchange resulted in the european powers sailing around the world conquring poor unsuspecting people and subjecting them to slavery and colonization thereby killing and driving many to extinction. We are told now that the world has moved on to capitalism which did away with those evils of the mercantile system only to create slavery and colonization of a different kind. Money as preciuos metals has been followed by inflationary paper money whose vallue rest on nothing more than a general consensus (a trust) in the ability of a governemnt to pay up the demanded vallue, regardless of amount as was shown by the northan rock affair ,from the future collections of tax from their citizens. You would be amazed to know how many nations have got their currencies pegged to the dollar or the euro etc .This shows how this trust in ,say ,the dollar or should i say the the american government is playing to the very intentions of the game that ends up in unbalances which give advantage again to the west. If mercantilism was horrible ,capitalism and free market are going to cause horrors that will dwarf any that preceeded it. Unless the evolution of money moves to the next stage and fast ,we will all be in deep trouble in my opinion. Free market is as fake as the idea that one people are batter than any other.

Thanks bros xiin and positive Your readiness to ask for forgiveness is a testament to a great personality maasha ALLAH. Anyway i think most somalis are not good muslims unless of course saying the shahada is enough to qualify one to be a good muslim. So all that most of us had to fall back to was our culture ,in my opinion, and that is why we never tire of killing each other. We fail to notice that it is the very thing that makes us who we are that is our worst enemy. I for one condenm trangressions justice at every opportunity if i am strong enough ,and when i am too weak to engage i leave it for another day insha ALLAH.