I dont like both democracy and capitalism. They colude with our base instincts and by driving us ever apart ever faster, they tear the very fabric of our societies asunder. It was only time before they could overcome the boombustic nature only to our detriment. The bust was as much a blessing as the boom was. Only my opinions. Probably not worth taking account of.

A good read. May GOD swt bring us peace aamiin. I wish we all come to love one another and come to agree on our common interests aamiin.

We obviously all differ on what the best way forward for somalia is and how to achieve that . We all want for the war to cease and for peace to return to our homeland insha ALLAH and we all want self rule and an end to the ethiopian occupation. We are all hurt by the terrible happenings in our land and we would obviously all do all in our power to help alleviate the pain that our loved ones suffer and we feel for those we cant help. We come together to share our views with each other and try and put as much weight as we possibly can behind our arguements to convince others that our perspective is closer to reality , is in compliance with the requirements of justice and can actually deliver the desired results. Further more we all insist that dignity dictates and compels us to act as required by us and that no other option is open for us and thus must not be put forward by any one. We brand those that help shed light, albeit a different kind of ligh,as traitors.Maybe we fear that they will nullify our cause or reduce or even divert our focus for that is how serious we take our selves, i think. That is all good but we are on the same side and the beauty is in the diversity. Beauty is always in diversity. All things the same become dull ,boring, loose mommentum before they finally die out and are extint. I have sought to make see that there is a differnent way and that you as the future inheritors of somalia learn to not only be able to zero in but also zero out, to see the trees as well as the forest, to understand rather than to memorise things ,to be dynamic instead of conservative, to learn how to tacke and engage nature and ideas with a purpose instead of cowing, being defensive and easily manipulated. The spirit is not one of agression but of confidence ,allertness ,determination and a drive to succeed. All that will not stand the scrutiny of our or should i say your intense gaze must then be treated as suspicious. You can ask me why i feel how i feel and if i cant justify my actions, intension or assertions and seek to only back them up by emotions and a demand of allegiance you ought not to support me ,atleast not until everything is a little clearer ,in my opinion. As i have said before i still believe that non violence is the best way forward for it preserves lives and can get us more support from somalis and the international community. This will bring alot more somalis to the cause and the occuping ethipians i believe will not be able to jsutify their stay anymore. How can they help restore peace if their is no violence ? If you think that i am wrong you are ofcourse entitled to your opinion just as i am mine. I hope no one was offended ,for none was intended. I enjoyed talking to you all. CAF IYO MASAAMAX.

Originally posted by Suldaanka: ^ Two questions: 1. Is the TFG a government or is it a warlord faction installed by a foreign occupational force? 2. Why do you think the freedom fighters should lay down their arms and surrender? The TGF is as its name says a TRASITIONAL FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. It is not a government but a means to get us to a proper government and as regards the second question maybe if you defined warlordism first. This TGF whatever it may mean to you was agreed upon at the time of its inception by everybody and we even agreed on how best to share power and equitable representation that mimicked our natural disposition to order and so we intalled a system called 4.5 .Not only did we all agree the whole world witnessed it and cheered us on. You can help correct me if i am mistaken. Now why dont you answer my question first before posing yours. This the question repeated for you. So as to stop ourselves moving in circles would you agree that the use of violence has to stop from all entities whether individuals or organisations regardless of wether it is actions to an end or reactions as in revenge or something. I have to go for now sxb but i will try and answer as honestly as i can your questions next time i log on and i am hoping we can agree on some things atleast.

suldaanka sxb I propose a way forward and in doing so i take you on a tour around the world so you may witness how things are done elsewhere in order that we may learn and emulate that which is of benefit to us. If you have not already you will soon find that things have a certain way that they can get done. was it francis bacon that said nature in order to be commanded must first be obeyed. You can throw stones and sticks for over sixty years in return for bullets that will kill us and our children and be emotional about it, like it is in the middle east or you can set emotions aside and come to the table in order that we may all put our points across and from that concoction a new mixture come out that is agreeable to all. We are all tired freind and some of us cant stand this madness anymore we want to go back home educate our children, rebuild our nation and live among those we call family, freind and country men and women. The choise is yours. If you expected me to side with you simply because like a magitian you draw from a hat causes and everybody is supposed to follow like zombies without why's and how's you are reckoning blindly. You ought to look around sxb, things arent what they used to be and you wont get allegiance by simply waving this magic wand anymore.

Geel jire I have not said we need ethiopian troops and i was saddened when they had to come in for everybody was against them including me. I am however not accepting that their withdrawal must be a prerequisite for an initiation of peace talks. And i opose vehemently all the atrocities commited in somalia by the TGF and their ethiopian masters just as vigorously as i am oposing any violent rebelion. At the end of the day they are all doing a disservice to us somalis. But unless you are willing to accept that order means doing things in an agreed upon way and that tried and tested all around the world and over time is the formula that any citizen who uses force is tresspassing and that the government is the only entity that has authority to do that you will be the dictator and not the government. You can argue as much as you like bro and you may even base you arguments on emotions but unless the rebels stop using violence the naked truth is that the entire world is going to side with the government and they will lose popular support if not immediately then over time. I base my arguements on the premise that greater good for the greater number of people is the target and that planning and willingness to change position to meet others is not only a somali tradition it is also most times the only way forward in solving disputes of this magnitude and complication. And i repeat that i believe that unity is the way forward and reconciliation and compromise is a viable way to unity and the best way to proceed on our way back to being a nation again. So as to stop ourselves moving in circles would you agree that the use of violence has to stop from all entities whether individuals or organisations regardless of wether it is actions to an end or reactions as in revenge or something. From such a ceasefire may dawn a new order and finally we may then break away from this childish never ending tit for tat that has reduced us all to beasts and our country to ruins.

GJ Goete I am disappointed freind that firstly you say no to compromise and then go on to say that is rational. May be you want to take us along the path that led to this conclusion. How you can say no to compromise for peace and a chance to return to a normal life for all of us somalis is truly mind boggling. Do you not compromise wherever you are now ? You do. In fact you may even be compromising on some values that you may strongly believe in. Every transaction is a compromise and every relationship is another compromise. You let go of something in order to gain another probably more valuable to you at that time for whatever the reason. And that is a compromise. If you are willing to live in a foreign land and compromise on your beliefs and way of life to mension just a few, wouldnt it be more profitable for you to compromise for issues that will determine life or death for many fellow somalis. Northan ireland is peaceful now they would not have been had they not agreed to sit and talk would they now. I dont know how any one can live among others in any society and not coompromise let alone a civilised one. Geel jire Isnt it nice. I mean to be able to actually plan towards a goal rather than merely shouting in oposition and getting worked up for nothing. You have a proposal for unity. "A union building exersise" If we unite simply to get rid of the ethiopain ,what will then become of us, say, after we have achieved our goal. Remmember we were killing each other even before then and no government could be accepted. Are we then to go back to each killing the other and warlords reigning suppreme kindof situation. what plan have you got in place to avoid a repetition of such state. I am afraid ME was right and so is lois lane ,we need to go soul serching first. We need to find our lost souls before resisting or accepting any kind of rule. We need to forgive each other and move on and first and foremost we need to STOP USING VIOLENCE as in now. We need to agree and accept that governments are instituted among men for a reason and one of those reasons is to arbitrate disputes and punish the law breakers. Governments have inbuilt systems where by people on whose mandate they operate can get the chance to either do away with them and put others in their place or change the way it functions as and when they see fit. Since we have already a government and it took along time to make it is in our advantage not t o seek to topple it by force and start all over again but to use it and work through it for our common good. By oposing this government violently rebels are not only perpetrating illegal acts ,they are also disabbling it and the rest of us. Since you wanted excersise try this for an excersise. A though experiment. A quick look at some of the factors that stand between us and peace and prosperity will reveal the rebels to be one of them. Now as a thought experiment, take them out of the equation altogether and notice how there wouldnt have been ethiopian in the first place , how we would have had peace now for several years ,how many of those lives lost senselessly would not have been so ,how the government would not have been wasting money, effort and time on constantly defending itself. In all honestly wouldnt we all have been better off without this rebellion. In my opinion they are to blame for most of our problems because the government had its mandate through an agreed upon proceedure and was thus legitimacy to govern. Maybe its time to go back to the drawing board and this time include all the factors at play in this dangerous dance of life and death, for a lasting peace. But first let us all agree that he who cannot come to the table and insists on using violence is the odd one out.

spadez I have no idea what you are on about freind but you fib as well as having bad arguements. I have never praised TGF and i am certainly not for occupation. If you misunderstood me i was all about unity and i oppose violence. I makes no difference to me from who violence comes from , it has got to stop. You can let yourself be swept up by selfserving individuals who promise heaven and can end up producing hell. You may have been swayed by their appeals and by their ability to instil fears and play on peoples insecurities but the fact is you and them are creating boundaries arbitralily to separate a people when all over the world even those that share the least coalesce as is natural and form stronger bonds beneficial to all. You may devide somalis and think that it is in your interest but you are in reality what stands between them and their interest and yours as well. Those that free mens abilities to create, to trade and to form relationships as they see fit are the true champions of their interests. However those like you and those you maybe happily echoing ,who seek to devide them and restrict and order their activities have been won over in other countries that have prospered and so i hope we shall overcome insha ALLAH. You may fool some people some times but not all the people all the times. Seek to earn a decent living like everybody else and stop preying on others. You are mine and i will protect you from the big bad wolf is not gona elevate you or others to positions of prominence where you can order others around. Yeah come with me i give you a boundary and a passport with which i will control your movements is not gona do it anymore. Wake up to the reality of the world ! to survive in this world you need to free people to be creative and more productive not to put chains on them.

lois lane You are doing a great job here :cool:

JB Saxiib a very enjoyable read, interesting and moving at the same time. Life is hard in most places on earth, only in somalia is it really easy in my opinion. People hardly do anything for a living and what is worse being iddle saves them not time for other purposes but for xan ,xin and xumaan. Its a comfort to me to see another man who sees things differently and believes in hard work maasha ALLAH. like you i used to walk at four in the morning out looking for work. I knew not the language. With only a few words taught to me by a freind i also used to knock every companys door repeating the three words which translate to "im looking for work" Ever since i have worked and most of my jobs were cleaning and loading and unloading. I was much younger then and my mum is still telling how i sent her my first ever salary. Like most somalis i had never worked before and my first day's work was unloading fifty kg sacks from a ship and the first two hours of constantly unloading made me think that i would never get out alive but i finished and lined up for work the next morning at the same time again. I cant understand how people can do nothing day in day out except chat. Your story about somaliland and what that man told you is similar for everywhere else in somalia. Hopelessness is like fog that wont leave them alone.

AYOUB I thought we all have a joke...comic relief. Nice to meet you too sxb And louise lane nice to meet you.

KASHAFA silly conditions are those that say we wont sit and talk without first the ethiopians leaving the country.

GJ Goate Astaqfurulah why must you say such things. I am pro life not an extinguisher of life and that is exactly what i thought i was doing. I am protesting people being careless with life and jumping into war as if is not the last resort. You do agree i hope that firstly any somali life or any life must be enshrined and saved if possible And secondly that a government is everywhere in the world the only authority allowed to use force any other use of force apart from self defense ofcourse is prohibited and for a good reason. I do not agree with the government having been forced to seek ethiopia help in controlling its own citizens. Most are oposed to ethiopia's involvement because of our history and that is understandable. But now that that is the case dont we need to move on and who must then compromise more in your opinion. I personally think the rebels ought to try other methords and wherever else they would certainly have been dealth with as criminals. I wouldnt call them criminals but their methords i.e. violence is not to your benefit or anyone elses however symphatetic we may be or even share their view. It is their action rather than their cause that makes them wrong and if you believe in governments as able to do alot of good and the evils of lack of gov are amply evident then procedure must come before love. Love is good but it is nothing without justice and justice is served better for all under the law

Water is i believe one of our problems and may even be a future source of conflict between us and our neighbour or should i say occupier. Interesting video.

War ITHOBIANKAAN yaanaga qabta toloow. Hadii anan anagu is jabin lahayn ma aanu jabneen. Haseahaate hada aanu jabanahay naloosoo gurman waayana soo in aan anagu meesha kakacno ma aha oo dhexda dhuuqsano. War dadow islaamahaan maalinwalba laga oohisiinayo oo caruurtoodi meesha kudhamaadeen maan unaxariisanoo hadal kaliya waxeena ku dhamaysano hada kadib. Diig aan daadinaa xal manoqonayso

Originally posted by AYOUB: ^^ Fair enough. The question still stands; What Is The Right Way Forward For Awdal /Somaliland? I think the likes of Ikraan X Daaud should be given the chance to govern. What say you? I think we should ask louise lane to shout help and let clark kent run to our aid. Let superman do the job for us. Maybe he can even even spin the world the oposite direction and turn back time to before Siad bare came to poweer. We can then all start afresh...

I think ME is right in most of what he/she said. This is my strategy for peace and withdrawal of the ethiopian troops. First the people -the rebels- must denounce violence and agree to join in on any peaceful resolution talks without silly conditions that cannot be met for whatever reasons. If they need more time to organise themselves into a properly organised and effective force to be reckoned with-one that can demand resonable conditions be met, they ought to ask for it and i believe most somalis will back them up on this. They ought to come up with a clear plan that will not favour any and that will help unify us and give us all direction and a sense of belonging. And liKe me said transparency is very important in order to win the trust of all somalis. If it is a nation they want build they ought to know that governments can not be oposed by the use of violence and that many a times people compromise on everything including power in so that oder may not be compromised. Order is the greater good in many cases and chaos the worst evil and how best to a set a people on the right path than to agree that no one may use violence as a means of pursuation. The oposition is loosing valuable support simply because they are not trained and not displined. No one must waste lifes of somalis including the government but remmember the government has legitimate authority to use force and the rebels not. If we are to be bounded by rules then the the rebels must devise a different strategy to achieve their goals and we are tired of all of this deaths and destructions. Let us for once learn to do things the right way. Sending kids to war ill equiped and barely trained and without proper leadership and faced with oponents that are stronger than them and enjoy alot more support, is equal to killing them In all honesty me said it all.

Ina lilaahi wa inaa ilahay raajicuun. ILAHOW naxariis baan kaaga tuugnay aamiin. ILAHOW dagaalka nagajooji aamiin.

Most democratic elections of today are infact nothing but manipulation but that is besides the point. Results depend alot on the existing conditions and the general mood of the people and if they are constantly bombarded with "us" verses "them" and a choice between "look they did this to us yesterday" and "hey we are your tribe we will never harm you choose us" at this point in time will only yield one vote. Every self serving future dictator knows what to say and when to get the best results. Only in times of peace can the best conditions favourable to all where control can be put in place for an orderly secession be met ,if that should then be desired. And disappointed that you needed alot more convincing that unity is truly better for everybody than i can offer for now. If our brothers in somaliland insist on secession i believe no one has the right to stop them by force, but only after making sure that a boundary dispute will not result in another war. You may have the right to self govern but not the right to do so at the cost of a war and the possible deaths of many somalis on both sides. Unfortunately we are both handicupped; i can not reveal to you the almost boundless possibilities of unity and your vission extends not beyond the tribe. Keep the mother alive my brother but somalia was evident enough for all with eyes to see that a tribal society has no legs to stand on and the bigger it grows the more painful the fall so best think now before you leap. First it was the tribes at war. When one emerged victorious, then the fight over the spoils of victory descended down to the clans and so on until the chaos was all encompassing. The only safe boundary to draw is the national boundary in my opinion. You may choose to differ. T

Originally posted by NGONGE: ^^ Don't bother. It's a long rant about Somalis sharing the same blood, traditions and history. The same dreamy stuff that has been argued for the past seventeen years! It also follows the same pattern. They start with an emotional appeal about being brothers then move to veiled ridicule and finally end it with a bit of fortune-telling! If this article was written on the 17th of May 1991, one would have been moved a bit, tempted a little and maybe swayed a touch! But it was not written back then. Amazingly for someone so articulate and reasonable, this nonsense was written THIS month! You would have thought the brother would know a dead horse when he's seen one. But Ngonge you are the one who is wrong. If you ridicule and dismiss these ideas as DREAMS let me remind you that dreams are infact the stuff that makes stars. Not the stars in the sky of course but the people who break off all the chains that society and pessimists put on them. Man couldnt fly for a very long time and thought that only birds could do that ..thanks to dreamers you can now also enjoy flight that are cheaper than train rides. We couldnt speak over distances and not instantaneously in any case but again thanks to those that dared dream you can now speak to your relatives anywhere anytime and sometimes even more clearly than you could hear the one right next to you. America is the land of dreamers and now not only somaliland but the rest of the world checks with them before they can eat their diner. You dont dream freind but rest assured that those that dare dream and put to use that powerful software called imagination will find ways to achieve their goals and like those that were left behind you may be forced to invent stories and blame nature or others for the inevitabe poor state that non dreamers often find themselves in. Now that that is out of the way let me share my views as to why unity rather than division at this stage. Firstly for the record i do wish all somalis the very best and i mean it and if the best option for somaliland is secesion then so be it. Rather than we all perish i would have that some survive and do well. The old ways of doing things have obviously led us all to a cliff and we are pushing each other off of it. So we all fall. No one must ,in my opinion, demand that somaliland must not seceed. Ours is an appeal for them not to seek secession, especially not at this time. We appeal that they stay within the union for wether they have love for us now or not we are all the same people and those that have harmed them over the years have in reality not favoured any of us. A glimpse at our state is proove enough that whatever it was it can never be called favour. I have also doubts regarding how popular this idea is even among the somalilanders and how that can be ascertained now beats me. After that is settled we then need to find out wether our brothers and sisters are being manipulated by a few self serving individuals or not. Having settled all that then comes the biggest hurdle of all. The boundaries of the new state. Is your secession worth another war over boundaries and a new bloodshed ? How many poor souls must we loose over and over again over greed ? All of the above require an orderly retreat with as little loss of lives and property as possible and that cannot be achieved because of the current state of affairs. If somaliland needs to seceed it must do so not as an opportunist with little regard to either principles or consequences for all involed but by genuinely pursuing their goal with determination and no ill intent or action. I know some are pushing through secessionist ideas forcefully now, thinking that this is the only opportunity and that if peace reigns and the government is strong, there will have no chance. That however is lack of iiman, foresigh and willpower. You see i strongly believe that we have all changed over the years and people will start doing things differently. We have the advantage of actually experiencing different systems of governments and ways of life all over the world and we shall incorporate this new found knowledge into our worldview and we shall learn to stand up for principles and not stand with the tribe anymore. The awful ways and fake love that people shower on others when they want something done for them will not have a grip on the future generation and so it wont sway their judgement. I can go on forever brother painting a bright picture of the future that you can inherit but dont stand oposed to it if you are not willing to expend effort bringing it to realisation. Just imagine a land vast, in which you and your loved ones share the fruits of your efforts in peace and tranquility. Imagine having the opportunity of knowing and keeping in contact with your childhood freind ,neighbours and family even sixty or more years down the line. Imagine being able to travel for work ,for pleasure or even move altogether to any part of the vast country that you fancy, without fear of need or aggression. Imagine the ability to bequeath the same to your posterity for generations to come. Imagine being able to not only fall in love but also to marry any somalian lady without having to worry for of her decent or what the othes are going to either think of it, say of it or act because of it and her the same of you. The list of "IMAGINES" is too long and i am sure if you look into your heart you will find a confirmation and if you are brave enough maybe you will even come forward with a list of yours without fear of embarrassment. Yes i wil not hide my face and i will not swallow my words. So i will come out and say "brother i am a dreamer ,there you go i've said it. I live in the clouds and if GOD grants my wishes i will build a bridge so you can come up here with me and enjoy the sight. It is amazing ....and oh it will take your breath away. WELCOME TO THE SITGHTS AND SOUNDS OF SOMALIA"

Interesting ,i am currently reading THE COMMON LAW By Oliver Wendell Holmes. Some writers believe that it is the backbone of western prosperity. One of them, William Bernstein, says in his book The birth of plenty that where ever the common law flourishes ,so does the wealth of nations. I think we ought to debate and maybe forge the laws that will govern us all in the future and we dont have to be law graduates to do this. Laws ought to come out of a people and it wont help us alot were we to copy and paste other peoples laws. I think for instance that the common law practiced by all the anglo saxan countries has its origins in cristianity, the old roman laws and whatever justice has come to mean depending on the direction and maturity of their civilization. Our civilization is prfoundly different. Where as theirs is almost entirely out of extraversion (the saying that property is nine tenths of the law is not misplaced) ours is almost entirely from introversion. We derive meaning in life from what we can do for others and how best we can control ourselves . They derive meaning in life from what they can gain from others and the environment and how best they can control others and the environment. It is therefore of vital importance that we know ourselves better before we can institute laws. To know ourselves as a people we can look into our shared history ,culture and beliefs in my opinion. I personally dont know anything about law and know just as much about diin and cultue but still willing to engage in this most important discussions. What do you all think ,i mean who wants to let chance decide their fate, i dont. That and the fact that to jump right in and start interacting, is probably the best way to learn stuff quickly in order to avoid future "QAB as in qabtii somalia iyo wadamo badan oo kale kadactay". I have never thought to express my views to be embarassing and i thank GOD for that. It really does pay to ask things and seek clarity. Am saying this to encourage all those that have views but are afraid to voice them. If you dont speak out, you wont have a voice and very soon even the tiny voice within you (the guiding nuur-conscience-qalbi) will be overwhelmed and wither away like the flower that it is). It is your country and your life so ask why, ask how and present your views if you dont want to live by other peoples commands. Raali ahaada afkaan iska furtay sidii doqomadiiyee.

Ethiopia is not abusing them because it thinks them as "its own people" but precisely because it knows that they are not its own people. For the same reason the NFD was underfunded and thus under developed as compared to the rest of kenya because they were not really seen as belonging to them. I have to say though that NFD was still much better than the ****** region.

How fleeting are our memories. We forget too quickly. Constant reminders such as this of the atrocities commited against our brothers and sisters must act to strenghen our commitement to one another. As a token of love, our hearts goes out to our brothers and sisters. We understand and we share their sorrows and pains and although we cant really help ,not even ourselves, we keep you where you belong (in our hearts)so that in times of health we may extend a helping hand aamiin. May we all get freed from occupation, corruption and bad governance aamiin

Brilliant brother well done. This is one of the most interesting articles that i have read for a while. Here i was thinking that we were doomed now since most are corrupted and rotten to the core. Am glad you spoke out dear freind, the more the voices like yours the sooner the stench will disperse and clear...uuuuuffff tribalism. To those that are pushed to tribalism by insecurity ALLAH swt has asked us to have iimaan in his ability and trust ourselves You have a big heart dear friend may it never tire -it seems to be pumping not only for you but also for all those that have lost faith and the courage to push on, along the way... aamiin. Those that write hate mail to you for your ideas and love of somalia let them write to me too for i share your passion for our nation and for justice. Somalia hanoolaato aamiin.

This was a good read indeed. Where does the fault then lie ? It is evident that to everybody self interest comes first and it would be very naive of us to expect any help from the international community or anyone else for that matter. When their interest conflicts with your interest you cant expect them in all honesty to leave theirs aside and come to your aid. It is in the interest of ethiopia and many others to make and keep somalia weak and even maybe to do away with it altogether and assimilate the people but only among the lower ranks and appropriate their land. Somalia is being taken away from the somalis like one takes a candy from a baby. Is it then not those who must have worked towards cohesion ,whose overriding interest would have been to this purpose, who are the babies. Not only are they painfully naive bordering on ********* that they cannot see beyond their noses, they also lack the will to change their ways . The only viable soution to this problem that i honesty can think of is for a change of tacktics. Having been given two options .. 1, Support the TGF and have a real chance of ethiopians rethreat back to ethiopaia and eventually complete autonomy and rule by more favourable leaders or 2, Rebel without a strategy and unity against a government that is a puppet- backed and used by foreign forces that are really not accountable to anybody as to what they can do or how much funds they can allocate to whatever captures their fancy. If those were the options ,i would choose the former without hesitation. Those stationed in asmara cannot unite the citizens , they will not even lead a proper oposition and will not partake in any armed struggle and yet order for one. They are deluded by the tastes of forbiden fruits that they think is theirs for the grabbing and that that comes with an african idea of a government office and they therefore reason that they have nothing to lose and everything to gain. Only they are mistaken for that is the very same reasons why we suffer so much already and i dont think that any future leader will ever be able to get away with it anymore. The younger generations have also been bitten and poisoned by the deadly snake we call tribalism and will all stagger to their graves because of it ,those that will follow will all be home free and they will learn to shut the door on tribalism when they reason.. We are all sleeping dogs here and we need to wake up from this trance and support according to strategy and not purely on emotions. The TGF is bad but it is not all to blame and it can work for us for now. All we need to do is learn to affect change by conventional methords if and when merely saying no, protesting or using force force wont work. How many times must we bang our heads on the wall in the hope that it may give way next time and let us through, when using the door would do the trick just fine and with our heads intact.