^adiga ayaan bal afkaaga uraacayaaye, ee laakin meesha ma cadaw baa,mise dadku waa dad muslim ah. Saxib, Hiiraale waa qabqableh dagaal,inaad ka xumaantana laga yaabee, markaa hope the best for everyone, and be careful what you wish for intaa aad leeday halkanuu hada soo socdaayo iyo halkanuu labadiisa jeep ee old ka haa iyo laba iyo labadii siikawega ahaa, waayo dagaal fooxun ayaa dhici kara, dadka masaakinta ee meesha daga ayaa ku dhimanaya badi ahaan.I dont' think you want that Horn. How bout posting pictures of the beautiful beaches of Kismayo instead and the peaceful current state in which Kismayo is in, we would appriaciate that, than tired old man in comouflage. thanks.

Degmada Bu'aale iyo uu uule iyo balaayo ayuunbay sheegayaaneh, ninku Kismayo ma intaasoo dhan ayuu ka cararay waa ba yaabe, boontin dheeraa duqu.Waar biyo iska cab dheh, dagaal intaa ayuu kusoo leekaadey eh, miyuu iska nasto, beesha uu dagaalamayna kadaayo qaxa iyo dhibta ku iman kartaa haduu dagaal dhaco, waa haduu nin caqli saliim uu inaba kujiro in uu yey.

Duke, you still at it? let me ask you man, how was your new born? Sorry to take that long to congraduate you but take a break man,give your mind a rest of having gone through so much bogus reports estimated around 5k posts. Paragon, lol.Anytime Awoow, anytime, glad to care for you.

Originally posted by Che-Guevara: LooL...Well they all happen to be from Somalia. Maybe you will find more receptive ears in Somaliland sites.. Awow, tana anuubaa usareeyee, suunka iska dabci, iina baashaal nooh. Meeshan, walaa Somalia lahayn walaa Somaliland,hadaanan anagu members ka ahayn meeshan sidan ba may ahaateen, hadaalkaasi makuu dhaadhacay yaa duqaa. Maxaan kawadaa taa(aan yara caytamee), dee reeriheenan koonfureed hadalku wuu idinku yaryey,markaa waa la'iska kiin jiid jiidi lahaa, amaba meeshu may lahaanteen laba dhinac oo hadal is way daarsada oo balanced ah,markaa be thankful in uu Ilaahay aniga iyo ME idiinsoo kiin diray si aad entertainment uga heshaan hadal "qaldanka".

^waar dee meesha waxaad lahadlaysaa ragii aad istaqateen, ee maaha ragaad bahaa bahaada loola yimaado.Farsamadan markaan yaraa ee layga xoog bato ayaan isticmaali jiray, oo qofkii meesha soo maraba waan iskala qabsan jiray si aan isku dhaafiyo xaalad xeesha xun ee aan ku jiro, waxaan u malayn tii oo maanta shabakada internet ku moolgaraysan ayeynu arkaynaa waana ta ku haysata yaa awoow ilka yare

^lol. taa ma lahubaa awoow, mise waay kaa dhamaatay, keep it coming, love to hear more. Che, why stop the man, mise waa meel aan rabay roob ma igu eryey.ME marka horeba wax yidhaa ka daa ayuu la'aa oo wuu awood darnaa, ee bal hada soo daa waxaad haysid yaa awoow macanow, ilko bariisle. Meesha lama dagaalamayn,markaa ma fahim waxaad uga booday laba sawir ee yar, guryaha ah.Waxaasi wax ninwayn uu sharafta iskaga qaado ma aha runtii,wax uu ka bac bac leeyo sida ay gubayaan sidii dhanbiil dabana ma aha,markaa awoow ilka yare, put back your artificial teeth, and utter some more baroor diiq, I love to hear it once again--- Jazakallahu Khayran.

^oh lord,it looks like we are back to square one again.Listen,in your own mindset, those SNM members were the real criminals while the SNA which later consisted of war refugess who commited inhumane acts were the real heroes, I say nice going buddy, bravo, you have proved a point there. Secondly,I am still unable to understand what exactly you mean by your three supposed that you have crippled above,but let me see if I can repeat myself. According to you: 1.The SNM betrayed the somali nation and people by collabrating with the enemy of Somalia? The real enemy of the Somalis was the cold blooded killer and his regime dhiigyacabkii Siyad Barre.But the most important point you are missing time and again, is who were the SNM? accordign to you they were their form of body which opperated itself and were out to take over any sort of government that was existing. But in reality, the SNM was the people who rose up against the oppression of the Barre regime.Get that point straight.If there was an enemy, it's Siyad Barre and his geeljire SNA soldiers that later come to be, after the real SNA defacted into the SNM and other factional movements. You seem to be overlooking the real problem which is the act of brutality by the barre regime against its own people, it wasn't the SNM but rather the fascist regime that betrayed the Somali people by letting them down in every aspect of their lives including politically,economically,and socially. 2.The SNM sacrificed and made the people of Hargeysa and Burco suffer for their own selfish gains: once again, what people of Hargeysa and Burco are you talking about? the people of Hargeysa and Burco of which I am a member of mostly hold the same view which was that the Barre regime had to go,regardless of what the SNM has to do to accomplish such feat, it wouldn't never had prevented the geeljire/refugees turned SNA from killing people,thus not in Hargeysa,Burco,but also it happened in the South,namely the example which I have given to you.Does that also has link to the SNM? if it wasn't mass excutions of certain qabiils.I still await a clear answer from you on this points,dont' ignore the facts.As well, as other killings including the ones that took place in Mudug,Muqdisho Stadium etc.YOUR INSIGHT IS NEEDED ON THIS. 3.The SNM was Beaten? if you were to ask anyone who has any sort of military background of what tactics they would use when vastly outnumbered,outgunned,they would tell you the gorilla war tactics.However, there are noticeably two different phases of Gorrila war,one being hit and run,the other simply attack,gather any weaponary and leave the scene before reinforcements come. The SNM used the first tactic of hit and run within Hargeysa and thus assisinated alot of high ranking SNA members.Later however, the SNM used the tactics of attack,strike hard and gather all weapons,fuel, possible, which they suceed in both phases.From 1988-1990, the SNM was very successful in making sure they had killed and dealt heavy loses in both economically and in severing the man power of the SNA,which was continuously was getting reinforcements from Xamar via innocent sheep herders being drafted, given quick hair cut with broken bottles then shipped to the North, present day Somaliland to fight the ever growing strength of the SNM. Some of these forced soldiers, simply gave in,since they had no idea of what they were up against and for what they were fighting for.It wasn't because of their country,it wasn't because of national pride and in defensive of the nation that Barre was doing all these, it was for him to maintain his throne. The SNM couldn't match in no way of the continous support that geeljire/refugee composed later SNA were getting from teh south, nor could they match them economically, so it was the best tactical move to make sure they didnt' engage the SNA in a battle without making sure they would have the upper hand in that particular battle.They had no fix location, hence they weren't that ****** to stay in one place vurnuable of airial bombardment.Many planes were left on the airport, unmanned, due to shortage of flyers who would fly the jets,however some airial threat did exist. The tactic which was to be on the offensive and to keep the SNA on its heels proved to be very successful, they were able to weaken the SNA's previous strenghth,and only thing that was missing was iskaba raacin which was accomplished by the USC forces in Xamar.The SNA still after the capture of Xamar by the USC in early 1991 try to put some last fight for Hargeysa, Berbera and Burco,but they were swiftly defeated with relative ease. Lastly, as I said, I have no bussiness in seeing or commenting what Oodweyne had said to you other than say Adkayso sida raga, oo hanaqon sidii hashii intay geela hor qaniinto hadana cabaada hadhow iyadu.Markaa aniga ha'igu soo duwin hadii meel hadalkii oodweyne kaa taabtay, adaa afka lagalay oo copy yey habkii uu wax uqori jiraye.Igadaa calalka dee inadeer, meelaha ku baroor tiiqso fadlan, hypocritic iyo waxan ahay ka bax, topic ayaan ka hadlaynaa ee ka hadal topic kaad bilowday adigu fadlan.Simple as that.

^lol.I doubt it, for what reason, he must have given them some cash,but then again the man himself is broke as(should I say)---lol.Anyways, he went to Galkcayo earlier si uu usoo baadho jeebadaha ciyaalka,laakin I doubt some sane guy would go back and go down with this low creature.

I dont' know about his report, but who cares what the BBC says, who even listens to this piece of garbage. P.S. Awoowe Paragon, Kix kixda ma kix ayaad qabtaa, waa maxay qosalka saasi, arami ayaa ku maqan ee halagu shay baadho.

Originally posted by me: Mr. Red Sea, Thank you for raising the issue of taxpayer’s money. The tax money that was collected from all cities in the country was used to finance these projects. So it’s not the people of Garbahaarey that got an Airport but the people of Hargeysa. It was not the people of Hobyo that got a Seaport but the people of Berbera. So yes it is the SOMALI PEOPLE from all regions of the country that financed these projects. Yes there was foreign aid money, but that foreign aid money was intended for the WHOLE country not just a certain area of the country. The secessionist entity has only 20% of the total population of the Somali republic, keep that in mind. Secondly the unfairness of the investment allocation to certain areas of the country can be seen by the per capita investment per region that the former regime made. The North West is as populous as Bari region yet it got far bigger share in government investment then Bari. So when we argue about Siyaad Barre's regime we should take these matters into consideration. Saaxib, go look around in any of my post and find anywhere where I have stated that Barre didn't do ANYTHING,offcourse, offcouse he did some good work early on though,I have to note that and I am sure everyone is aware of that,however, the killings and erasing the cities to the ground erases all that, that is where I stand. Secondly, let me say, I have no full knowledge of the tax payers and where most taxes were collected,but let just point out that,Hargeysa is more developed than in other city in the former Somali republic, why is that,they had peace for as long as Puntland had peace,why can't Galkcayo,Gorowe,Bosaso, be in the same level as far developments, coincidence? I think so. Even Hargeysa,Burco, experience far more devastating war then all cities in puntland, so what is your explanation as to why Hargeysa is ahead of these cities as far developments and bilicsane.If its' not the people, then who is it? we know there is no much outside help other than those in the diapora,but again they are the people. Jaylaani, that is cool,mind sharing at least the good word to us all specially to I and Mr.ME who seems to only hear negative and bias news coming out of his town which he has some tremendous passion to bash.

Originally posted by me: So you are saying the SNM was fighting Siyaad Barre and therefore they were allowed to use any means possible including collaborating with the Somali enemy in a time of war. Before, you ask, ask yourself,since you have demanded us to think critically, and please spare us all, the ill excuse of the Somali people this and Somali people that.At that point in time, the real enemy of the Somali people were Barre and his fascist regime.So as long as you are denying this, then I will keep on saying YES, the SNM had every bit of right to go every way to get rid of teh fascist and kaliskii taliskii Siyad Barre.But the day you admit that Barre despite his glorious first few years in which he succeed while accompanied by the strenghth of all Somali people, the day you admit that he anytime after that was the root cause of the miseries and suffering that still exist today in some parts, when you do that,I will be happy to engage wtih you on whether SNM was right or wrong in acquiring base and weaponary from Ethiopia. However this line of thinking highlights the SNM’s low regard for the Somali people’s interest. It was not Siyaad Barre that was at war with Ethiopia, but SOMALIA. So by collaborating with an external enemy whose aim was to keep the occupied Somali territories and even annex additional Somali territories shows us the SNM didn’t respect the wishes of the Somali people. Yet another weak point, which I can dismantle with ease. First, if you don't mind looking at the heroes of Goday, Harer,Jigjiga, the pilots that were never seen again which were shot down right out of the sky above the territories you just mentioned, significant numbers of them happened to be from Hargeysa and Burco during the struggle to liberate the terrirotries in which you have mentioned.Did they not fight with loyalty and pride? weren't their interest lying to free the Zone five region, I think you will agree, well then consider this,most of those officers that participated in that war, were later the leaders of the SNM which felt neglected by their own government and betrayed by the people whom they shed their blood in freeing them so they defacted into army struggle in order to free the people from oppression. As I had pointed out previously, the refugees that fled the '77 war were armed and told to kill the people who had them as guests, doesn't that qualify a very low regard and rather terrible way to thank the people who sheltered you in time when their homes weren't safe? I think it's only a fair to give that a thought. You talk about an external enemy, the fascist regime of Barre were the enemy of the state, they were responsible in distroying and creating the rift, clan against against clan, and amonsity that still exists today,the SNM didn't even have that much influence over all regions,it was indeed the fascist government of Siyad Barre that destroyed and watered the blooming flower with a toxic splash of acid. It is very much understandable how the men and woman of Kismayo, Gaalkacyo, Barawe reacted to the collaboration of the SNM with the enemy of Somalia in a time of war. People all over Somalia saw the actions of SNM as subversive and treasonous . I don't think I heard about this,but how did they react to the ruthless killings, in the Jaziira Beach, how did they react to inhumane acts commited by Barre forces in Mudug plains, how did they react to any of the continous pursuit of human suffering caused by the regime.Oh I forgot, they couldn't have reacted,because it was Aabo Siyad staring at them, no finger for justice could have risen up, as the Muqdisho studium crowd found out the hard way later on, when the large crowd didn't applaud for "aabihii" kacaanka, gues what they got in return, blazing fire of lead into their lungs, will you also justify this Mr.ME, or you will say,hmm, the USC was messing things around in Xamar as well, will you my friend? The SNM did not make any friends with its collaborationist agenda. Siyaad Barre was right in his countering of SNM aggression . He was the head of the state and it was his job to protect the nation against all enemies internal as well as external . Any leader in his position will make the same decision he made, maybe a different tactic but the same principle. So, by means of destroying,raping, and killing innocent people, it was the right way to counter those who were threating "the people".What people? the people you are claiming Barre was defending considered him a cold blooded killer, so that has to tell you where that much energy of "defending" the state from internal enemy,offccourse the people themselves were seen as enemy. Furthermore, let me just get out of my shoes and step into yours for second.Let us just say, the SNM did make wrongful calculations in Hargeysa and Burco.But then wait, how bout when people fled to Naaso Hablood mountains outside of Hargeysa, they, the SNA or the facist leaders knew the civilians camps were relocated there, so did they say, well civilians are based there so let us make sure they face no harm, absulately not, they went after them and kept killing more and more, well that was their aim to begin with and again 'reer aan rabay roob ma igu eryay' ayaa ka dhacday meesha. Originally posted by Mr. Red Sea: The fact that you have stated history in North starts in 1988 war is a proof that you have alot of catching up to do. I don’t think you expect us to discuss the full history of the region. I made a conscious decision to focus on the events of May 1988, the reason for this is because the moment the SNM moved into the cities with just 1500 men they crossed the final line and there was no turning back for North Western Somalia. You are right to certain degree here, and sure I will debate with you upon the date you have selected, but I am sure it makes no difference, the truth is the truth, it has no flip side to it. Originally posted by Mr. Red Sea: To oodweyen, sxb.if Mr. Me asked for it, why not,I must go ahead and give the kid an early birthday present, just in time to say Ciid Mubarak. Of course in a true ‘Islamic’ way Mr. Red Sea . So I asked for al the name-calling and death treats by raising issues that concern us all? That shows us allot Mr. Red Sea, your Jackyl & Hyde, your double facedness tells us enough. Saaxib,that was direct statement, maybe you got over heated a bit, so read what I said again one more time.I don't think I justified or I had anything to add to what happened between you and Oodweyne,simply mr.Oodweyne suggested that you deserve no reply,so my answer was why not I make you earn your way up, if you have to post such idiotic topic, which quite honestly considering your points,deserves none.That was all, whether I am two faced and what not isn't of your concern at the moment,but your main concern should be how you would dig your way out of this pot hole, which seems to be deepening. You seem to be losing any key points, if there were hardly any to begin with. You accused the SNM of miscalculations,you have also made some bad miscalculations in this thread by forgetting that this took place only 17 years ago.Sure maybe both you and I were kids back then,but diffinately not long enough to not have eye witness, vidoe documantaries in full color which captured things in first hand. All this name-calling and death treats show the dear SOL public one thing and that’s what all ya’ll folks is claiming is built on lies . Re-writing history will not save certain sections of the Somali Nation. We are all present here today and we are all taking notes. The declassified documents of the British Government will be a goldmine for Somali historians that want to know more about the subject. History will certainly be a cruel judge. History doenst need to be rewritten,and definately not so recent one, this one hardly requires to be penned down,it's right in front of us it's plain clear and simple.But I dont' know why you are crying certain group of people,anyone has the right to choose their destiny, pick and choose yours, and know that everyone has the same right as you wish to have. As pointed out to you today, what was under SNA military is no longer there,Barre is no longer there(died, will be judged by the Lord,let us leave it at that).So the present is what counts, although you don't have any key points proofing your claim,however,teh present is the most important thing.What the present is something I won't waste my time on,hence you migth already know how things are going.

^man, you had your work cut out today, thank Mr. Me for the precious time.

Originally posted by Sharif_seylaci: [/QB] AAAah, Hargeysa,very nice----thanks once again Saylici.

Originally posted by me: No ungreatfulness resulted in a war. Lets see what 16 years brought you, except a lick of paint, you are still looking at a mirage. So we can argue that the Somali people own Berbera port, Hargeysa Airport and the roads in the North West. It was the Somali peoples tax money that paid for it. How about some compensation? Who should we be greatful to? to you or to ourselves.The source of investments were merely as Qudhac stated. I am still failing to understand what Somali people you are speaking of? those in Hargeysa,Berbera,Burco,Borame, etc. or those from other regions.Offcourse, if there was any tax paid to make investments into these areas, there surely came from the pockets of the inhabitants, so no need to thank anyone but ourselves, since we paid it from our own pockets,aside from what was donated by the outside world. The city of Hargeysa become the second largest city in the former Somali republic, because of its inhabitants,Burco become provisional capital,because its energtic residents made it to be so. The Berbera port was built by Russians ,the large airport of Berbera was later built by the Americans.Any other money besides that was contributed to them by people which reside in these areas, not others from other areas, therefore they should be thankful to themselves for cleaning their backyard,it's not like they invited others to sweep their qolqol. you said it's unfair? what is unfair? the investment was once again due to development and the eager to move forward and build up their homeland by the people in these respective cities. The city of Hargeysa,Burco,Borame today, are prime example of that.It would have been evident through Hargeysa,Burco, Borame if they once stood up in thanks to Somali government,but then all those mentioned cities are far better and more developed then they have ever been,which should tell you that is the people who made the difference not Barre or the current Riyale adminstration. So, it seems you are runing out of things to say or you are simply just hating for the wrong reasons, it's almost Ciid, so just congradualate,don't hate, and move on buddy without making yourself look like "toddler" in diapers. Whom do these areas belong,the same people that built it before, and are still building it today.

Originally posted by me: So you do agree with me, the towns needed to be recaptured no matter what the cost. I am very much justifying the army’s goals in recapturing the towns. I am also supporting the army’s goals in eradicating the rebels. The army was operating within the boundaries of the law. The rebels attacked the cities, they were the aggressors, and they put the civilians in harms way. Imagine if a bank robber enters a bank with a gun and takes hostages, the police come and surround the building. The police want to end this situation as soon as possible. They want to either arrest of kill the bank robber. The public expect the police to do its job. The public expect to be protected from the bank robbers. If while trying to arrest the bank robber the police kill a hostage then it is the bank robber that is responsible. It is the bank robber that put the hostage in harms way not the police. What you are arguing about is the tactic that the SNA used not the principle. The SNA was right in recapturing the cities. You disagree with the tactics though. By whom my soul is in his hand, I would and will never in billion years agree with such statement.I was basically highlighting the point you made about the SNM commiting treason, in which my response was,the SNM already had an enemy,the fascist regime of Barre, therefore treason or otherwise, the Barre regime wouldn't have done them a favor neither,because they were in conflict.So what would you expect, the SNM would use and would climb any ladder in order to bring down the facist regime of Siyad Barre, whether it had to be Historical enemy of Ethiopia or the immediate enemy in Siyad Barre. Furthermore, you had previously claimed that your arguments were sound,I am still eager to note where in this draft you have made one good point,but rather time after time, you have proven to us all, that you have no knowledge thus your examples are proof of that.The fact that you have stated history in North starts in 1988 war is a proof that you have alot of catching up to do. Let me first shed some light on some examples that you have brought to the table, although they are hardly examples in which I personally wouldn't have my arguments to be based on them.You have stated some funky example which you have stressed how state securtiy would deal with any threat posed to the civilians,you have later mentioned and told us an example in which you applied to the situation back then, as bank robbery, which you have attempted to mislead the audience in telling them that this was something to that effect. So let me drop two cents into the drawer if you don't mind.I think I have few minutes to spare before I leave work(it's boring tonight), so it wouldn't hurt to say few things here and there I hope. Let me first start with an example of its kind contrary to the one that you have provided. But then I won't,because I would only do that, if I ran out of facts to state.So let me state the obvious while you are at it with your cat and mouse game. It's proven fact, as soon as Somaliland gained independence from Britain,they have chosen to unite with the rest of their brethrens in South only few days after their independence .Thus the first place on Somali soil that the Somali flag which some of you still look up to was raised in the liberty park in Hargeysa,hence the city of Hargeysa earned the nicknamed Hoyga Xoriyada or simply home of liberty.It was Hargeysa where, the songs of national pride, lyrics of national anthem were composed for what once was a simple peice of cloth.It was here, Hargeysa that national pride,unity, and love was first made to exist, not Xamar or anywhere else, if that is what some might think,there is only one Hoyga Xoriyada and that is Hargeysa.For old and for new, Hargeysa had always stood up high even after it was made to be 'little Hiroshima' it still stands today,better and stronger than ever. To come to my point,I am here to say, the residents and the people of Northwest, present day Somaliland welcomed their government,they welcomed the Somali leadership, they were the front runners of national pride.The kindness and love was a trully evidence when in 1977 Somali-ethio war, when massive refugees fled from the disputed area into the major cities namely Hargeysa, they were welcomed with open hands, they were given a place to stay, they were simply made to feel home.They simply were given first class treatment by the people inhabiting the cities they went into,even present day, they still live peacefully. Moreover, Mr.Me you have said much about the SNA? so let me just break it down of who the SNA were and who they later come to be. The SNA previously was the Somali national army, which every clan respectably was part and parcell of as far as defending the nation from external threat, which is the assignment of every army in the world.That was then,but later the SNA become and was composed of few loyal kinsmen to Siyad Barre from within Somalia,the rest of the SNA were the people that fled from the 77 wars in which later were conviced that they actually owned Hargeysa the city in which just few years before they were visitors to. The people that were once refugees were roaming the streets of Hargeysa telling people Hadhagdhagaagin sort of order.They had no discipline, lacked training,therefore where subject to commiting ruthless acts propatrated towards certain group of people whom happened to welcome them into their homes earlier at time. If that is the case, then were where the real SNA? well, let me answer by saying, the real Somali national army were the kinds of Col.Ahmed Mohamed Xasan, who refused to bombard Hargeysa, they were the ones that left the later "SNA" after told to fight their own people.Some went to join the SNM,SSDF, and later USC,which they contributed in dismantling the cold and ruthless man of Siyad Barre. So that is that as far as of so called Somali national army. What was the SNM? the SNM was a faction that didn't exist of its own to begin with, nor did they come to exist in order to gain power,but rather they were born from oppression, the people were the SNM. So one who claims that the SNM was misleading the population should have it mind, when Adan shiine, Ibrahim Koosaar,Jen.Maxamed Xashi Lixle, col.Ibrahim Koodbuur all died in the battle field, the ones who carried their torture were the people who were so determined to overthrow the brutal dictator of Siyad Barre, it's absurd to say the least that the SNM existed as body of its own apart from the people of the Northwest,present day Somaliland, The people were the SNM. To further point out and for you to chew on for the rest of the night, I would say to you Mr.Me or others who would offer to answer, why did Siyad Barre feel so urgent as to call Omar Carti Ghalib to form a party of his own and run for the office,since that would come to shock anyone who knew Barre as a man who loved the throne,the only reason he might have thought about such, was to safe his throne in desperation caused by the SNM which was beaten right? I think waa su'all afka ka wayn. Af far other things are concerned, I think I can safely say Siyad Barre' agenda was 'reer aan rabay roob ma igu eryay'.There wouldn't have been military sectors named just to cleanse some tribes,even as reported some military division's main responsibility was terminate and cleanse members of Clan X, thus they were given such name. To oodweyen, sxb.if Mr. Me asked for it, why not,I must go ahead and give the kid an early birthday present, just in time to say Ciid Mubarak. To Nayruus, baroorta naga aadyar sxb.Hargeysa hadaad ku dhalatay, imikaba cidi kaama haysato, xoog meesha majiro, waxna xoog laguma kala qaado,Hargeysa cidii awal lahayd ayuunbaa imikana leh,markaa waxba haka calaacalin halkan ee tag meesha ama baroortu calooshay uxuntaye naga aamus.

^So you are justifying the ruthless acts commited by Barre.Weren't they brave enough to engage the SNM in hand to hand, street to street, or urban warfare with SNM,instaed of sheling the whole city, if the SNM were to be contained by the SNA in hand to hand combat,then I don't think there would have been an ariel bombardment.But only after they SNA proof to be ineffective,they chose the other alternative way, and a bad one it was. killing each and every rebel was certainly the goal of everyone and definately Barre' forces would have only if they were able to, which they werent'. As for your other point,no brother, things don't go as you have said,if rebels attacked New York,first an extreme planing would have to be taken to look how to minimise the civilian casualties while maximizing the rebel casualty, the Barre forces looked at neither, they simply look the city as a rebel city, which needed to be erased.How many killed,and how much damage didn't matter,the city wasn't Garbaharay ya know. My dear brother I don't mean to disrepect you in any way,but time of war with Ethiopia? you should be able to know at least by that much, that the SNM was fighting a war with the Somali government,thus would use any way shape or form in order to try to defeat them.The SNM was alerady considered the "enemy" of the state by Barre and a threat to his ruthless and bloody hand grip of the Somali people.So I don't really quiet get what cooperating with the enemy thing you are talking about,things simply don't work like that.If I don't like you, I will go by everyway I can in order to try to bring you down, that also includes droping a nuclear bomb on you if I have to, that is the reality. Secondly, you should know, that Siyad Barre himself was considered an enemy in Hargeysa and throughout Waqooyi galbeed,so what difference would it have made, if the SNM cooperated with his rival.During the 1977 war with Ethiopia, the Ethiopians bombarded Hargeysa,but not nearly to the same extent as "our government" did, so so much for state,I say that was a fascist government,it needed to go, and end result was the exact. in 1989, one of SNM's base was located right near Hargeysa Airport, I have full vidoe evidence of that, which shows the Masalah, the outskirt or Hargeysa, the SNA were on the defensive,so they had gathered all their strengh in the main area of the city and were on the alert night and day, this much was caused by the weak SNM right?At the start, the SNM was no where to be seen,but by late 80,namely 89, the SNM was sitting on the outskirt of Hargeysa, well the SNA knew they were there,but couldn't dare,because by this time, the SNM itself had alot of firepower as well,source of donation>the SNA. Thinking critically is something expected of you at this moment.The SNM did attack Hargeysa as you said with not more than few thousand men, however,does that mean, the SNA had the right to bombard the whole city? I don't think so, they could have gone after them whatever they were hiding.But in reality, the SNA' noting from its leader at the tim in hargeysa Gen.Morgan, run as far as five miles to the airport, earning the nick Abdil Bile Abdi,thereafter, they took their frustrations onto the whole city, I don't think this needs much critically thinking.Whether the SNM should have waited longer to enter Hargeysa, is certainly something we can entertain for a while,but to use that in order to justify the continuous mass killings of people by the Barre regime almost sounds like you are saying that Barre would have never been so bad.How would you then explain the Jaziirah killing of intellects, the killing and raping of innocent men and women and countless herds in Mudug regions? the problems of the Siyad Barre regime were larger than then this narrow anaylaze of yours.

^wow,thanks Saylici,I was more impressed by the beautiful coastline of Seylac. P.S.Northerner, ma ila aragtay, ninkii Jaylaani,muxuu iskaga qadhmuunanayaa sawirada yar.

Originally posted by WIIL_SHAYDAANKA: "The original mission of the Somali National Army was to protect the nation from external aggression. I was trained to fight against an enemy force not my own people; my decision was firm to risk dying rather than bombarding civilians and their property." -Lieutenant-Colonel Ahmed Mohamed Hassan Interview with Omar Alasow link patriot! I heard about him,and few people like this REAL patriot had the guts to let their true loyalty, the loyalty to defend their nation from external enemy not bombard their own people, only few like him existed,but the rest were killers yesterday, and today, they are praising Barre for being Somali hero and what not, and out calling themselves patriotic. If you want true defination of a patriot,it's he Col.Ahmed M. Hassan who was brave enough to refuse orders, and intentionally failing the mission aimed to destroy his own people,many went with it and few like him didn't, for that he should be praised.

Originally posted by General Duke: If the SNM won the war why did they not rule Somaliland? Egaal was not a member, and neither was Dahir Riyaale Kahin. So much for the warriors. Isn't it good idea,to maybe ask before you speak and write as though you are right on the point? CabdiRaxman Tuur was a member of the SNM, he was the chairman before Silanyo was,so after the Somali dictator was ousted, and Somaliland declared UNI (unilateral declaration), he was elected to lead it,thus SNM did rule Somaliland from the begining,but unlike the South,they later chose someone who knew more about politics with previous experience, so they chose Igal(aabihii Siyaasada),Tuur had different expertise,Igal was more suitable in leading Somaliland later on.Simple as that. Dahir Riyale Kahin came later,much later on. Mr.Me, you are claiming your arguments are sound and solid,eh? well I think if we were to put all kidding aside and deal with facts. First of all, you must understand the root what causes an uprising by the people? does it happened,because one wants to gain power and overthrow an existing ruling government, no? that is called coup, and it happens rather distinct way,but as far an mass uprising by the people,it comes to an effect when there is disatisfacation, misery, oppression.Which one can argue was the reason that brought upon the existance of various soup of letters,begining with the SSDF, follow by the SNM and so forth. The real reasons that brought upon the ousting of the dictator Barre is much more complex then simply say the SNM is to blame for the failture of the Somali government and killings of thousands of innocent people, which is rather absure and superficial thoughts if you ask me. If that was the case,and it was indeed the SNM that caused the remaining regular army to bombard Hargeysa and Burco,then how could you explain, the ruthless acts commited by many SNA officers and their military personal in the country side including rapes(don't ask me for proof,because eye witness is the way to go)secret excussions of intellects,good political minds of certain clan, and many many more ruthless acts in the hands by the government of which you are making an excuses for. Another point which you have raised,is who fought the government more the SNM or USC and which had more effect.To explain to new comer of politics, the base and heartland of the former fascist regime was in xamar, thus all its key areas and blocks were located within Xamar,including the Siyad Barre himself and his close kins in which he instlaed although they lacked the qualifications. In the North, present day Somaliland, the SNA(somali national army) had 26th army division(qabta 26 aad),joined by 54th army division in Gorowe,21st army division from Dhuusomareeb,the 77th army division from Xamar itself,and 64th division from Kismayo, as well as masive draft from minority tribes in the South were all brought to the North to fight their own bretherens, although many refused and surrendered themsleves and their weaponary to the SNM.In this period there were nasty fights begining from 1984-throughout 1990.It's well documented who suffered the most in the battlefield,when we put the figures of the civilian casualties aside,the SNA was inflicted severe damage of its capabilities despite outnumbering the SNM and having more and far more fire power,Simply the SNM was using the weapons they had captured from the SNA with the exception of few provided to them by Ethiopia.Which brings me to point out that the SNM was in Ethiopia under its own interest and EThiopia was also benefiting from them,it was we both win type of scenerio, to say SNM invited or was invited by our enemy Ethiopia,you have overlooked the fact that the Somali govermnent would them no favor,therefore it's understandible why one will even become a friend of its foe, in order to rid another foe,the somali fascist regime.As it turns out,Siyad Barre was teh one who has signed that treaty with Ethiopia,so you could also be blamed for having any peace relations with your enemy,since that is the way you put it on the flip side. Another point that you have missed completely was,the fact that the SNM was operating within the Northwest,with the exception of major cities such as Hargeysa, Burco, berbera, Cerigabo.So the question that should linger to one's mind should be,since the SNM was unable to operate within the country at the begining,then how did it become possible that they engage the somali fascist regime within the country,that can have one answer,the weaking of the government,weakened by the SNM themselves. Way before the USC existed,the SNM was engaged in battle with the SNA,defeated them and they were defeated in their turn,but not eridicated within the few months that Barre predicted. the majority of the Somali army, with the exception of the elite Red Berets were fighting in the north,losing battle after battle,so they had gathered all their strenghth into major cities such as Hargeysa, to which the SNM had no economical and man power to engage them considering the failure of the previous attempt to do such, in which the SNM succeeded in capturing Hargeysa and Burco momentarily,but later withdrew after they couldn't withstand the fire power of the SNA. From this point on, the SNM regrouped and series of gorrilla war in the country side took effect, the losing hand that suffered the most was the SNA which weakened signifantly and later made it able for any arm groups to deal with the government at ease.A prime example of that was the USC which entered Xamar without much resistance and only faced minimum resistance from elite guard of Barre himself,the RED Berets.The fight between the USC and Red Berets took only few weeks,after which the REd berets withdrew Barre from the city into Gedo region,his tribal territory.Anyone would know this wouldn't have been possible if once one of Africa's strong nations wasn't unable to defend itself unless weakened previously.We know it couldn't have been the SSDF,because they were paid to surrender,and there were no other faction movements that existed before the USC other the mentioned SSDF and offcourse the SNM. So only remaining option is that it was no other than the SNM that dealt a heavy and one that couldn't be recovered from by the fascist government which lead to the USC to capture Xamar without extensive battles. Finally, as you might know, a government doesn't simply callapse unless its headquarters,managements,and operations from their base is disrupted.The USC's takeover in Xamar sped the process which almost would have been and already there been accomplished single handly by the SNM in my believe. What came later,including the ethnic cleansing by the USC is unfortunate,however although there were reported killing by the SNM in far west near Jabuti, and far east in Sanaag and some areas in Sool,they were never the same act of violence,with the USC's being quiet ruthless and noticeable. I am speaking of facts,so unless you show you the slightest idea of what you are trying to say,it's wise to just remain silent,since silence is golden, considering what you have just crippled. -------------------------------------------------- The situation in northern Somalia was even more serious for the provisional government. The dominant SNM, whose fighters had evicted Siad Barre's forces from almost all of Woqooyi Galbeed, Togdheer, and Sanaag regions as early as October 1990, had also captured the besieged garrisons at Berbera, Burao, and Hargeysa at the end of January; they were not prepared to hand over control to the new government in Mogadishu. Like its counterparts in the south, the SNM criticized the USC's unilateral takeover of the central government, and the SNM leadership refused to participate in USC-proposed unity talks. The SNM moved to consolidate its own position by assuming responsibility for all aspects of local administration in the north. Lacking the cooperation of the SNM, the provisional government was powerless to assert its own authority in the region. The SNM's political objectives began to clarify by the end of February 1991, when the organization held a conference at which the feasibility of revoking the 1960 act of union was seriously debated. In the weeks following Siad Barre's overthrow, the SNM considered its relations with the non- clans of the north to be more problematic than its relations with the provisional government. The SDA, supported primarily by the Gadabursi clan, and the relatively new United Somali Front (USF), formed by members of the Iise clan, felt apprehension at the prospect of SNM control of their areas. During February there were clashes between SNM and USF fighters in Saylac and its environs. The militarily dominant SNM, although making clear that it would not tolerate armed opposition to its rule, demonstrated flexibility in working out local power-sharing arrangements with the various clans. SNM leaders sponsored public meetings throughout the north, using the common northern resentment against the southern-based central government to help defuse interclan animosities. The SNM administration persuaded the leaders of all the north's major clans to attend a conference at Burao in April 1991, at which the region's political future was debated. Delegates to the Burao conference passed several resolutions pertaining to the future independence of the north from the south and created a standing committee, carefully balanced in terms of clan representation, to draft a constitution. The delegates also called for the formation of an interim government to rule the north until multiparty elections could be held. The Central Committee of the SNM adopted most of the resolutions of the Burao conference as party policy. Although some SNM leaders opposed secession, the Central Committee moved forward with plans for an independent state, and on May 17, 1991, announced the formation of the Republic of Somaliland. The new state's border roughly paralleled those of the former colony, British Somaliland. SNM Secretary General Abdirahmaan Ahmad Ali "Tour" was named president and Hasan Iise Jaama vice president. Ali "Tour" appointed a seventeen-member cabinet to administer the state. The SNM termed the new regime an interim government having a mandate to rule pending elections scheduled for 1993. During 1991 and 1992, the interim government established the sharia as the principal law of the new republic and chose a national flag. It promised to protect an array of liberties, including freedom of the press, free elections, and the right to form political parties, and tried, albeit unsuccessfully, to win international recognition for the Republic of Somaliland as a separate country. From: Ben.Parker@unep.no Subject: US Department of the Army analysis of Somalia December 1993 Date: Mon, 14 Nov 94 09:26: 1 GMT Message-Id: Somalia(a country study) Relations with Other African States For ten years after the ****** War, the Siad Barre government refused to renounce its public support of the Ethiopian guerrilla organization, the Western Somali Liberation Front, and provided it with clandestine military assistance to carry out raids inside Ethiopia. The Mengistu government responded in kind by providing bases, sanctuary, and military assistance to the SSDF and the SNM. Siad Barre's fear of Ethiopian military power induced him in the early 1980s to begin a process of rapprochement with Somalia's other neighbors, Kenya and the former French territory of Djibouti. Kenya had long suspected Somalia of encouraging separatist activities among the predominantly ethnic Somali population in its Northern Frontier District. Following a 1981 summit meeting with Kenyan president Daniel arap Moi in Nairobi, Siad Barre's public renunciation of any Somali territorial claims on Kenya helped dissipate mistrust. Beginning in 1982, both Kenya and Djibouti, apparently encouraged by Siad Barre's stated willingness to hold direct talks with Mengistu, made diplomatic efforts to mediate between Somalia and Ethiopia. It was not until 1986, however, that Siad Barre and Mengistu finally agreed to meet. This first meeting since before the ****** War took place in the city of Djibouti and marked the beginning of a gradual rapprochement. Siad Barre's willingness to defuse the situation along the Somali-Ethiopian border stemmed from the combined pressures of escalating guerrilla activity, overt Ethiopian military threats, drought, and the destabilizing presence of hundreds of thousands of Ethiopian refugees. Siad Barre and Mengistu held a second meeting in April 1988, at which they signed a peace agreement and formally reestablished diplomatic relations. Both leaders agreed to withdraw their troops from their mutual borders and to cease support for armed dissident groups trying to overthrow the respective governments in Addis Ababa and Mogadishu. The peace accord failed to provide Siad Barre respite from guerrilla activity and probably contributed to his eventual demise. Anticipating the possibility of being expelled from Ethiopia, the SNM decided to relocate within Somalia itself, a decision that drastically changed the nature of the conflict in the north. Despite the termination of Ethiopian assistance, SNM guerrillas continued to defeat Siad Barre's forces with relative ease; by August 1988 they had captured Hargeysa and other northern towns. Siad Barre responded by ordering massive aerial bombing, carried out by foreign mercenary pilots, that damaged or destroyed virtually every building in Hargeysa (see Sources of Opposition , ch. 5). The brutal attack, which resulted in thousands of civilian casualties and brought both domestic and international opprobrium upon the Siad Barre regime, failed to crush the SNM. Fighting not only intensified in the north over the next eighteen months, but also spread throughout the country, forcing an estimated 800,000 Somalis to seek refuge in Ethiopia. In March 1990, Siad Barre accused Ethiopia of having violated the 1988 peace agreement by providing continued military support to the SNM. However, by this time the Mengistu government was as beleaguered as the Siad Barre regime by armed opposition movements and was not in a position to assist any Somali rebels. Soon after Siad Barre fled Mogadishu in January 1991, Mengistu followed his example by fleeing Addis Ababa as guerrilla armies closed upon the Ethiopian capital. Throughout 1991 the new provisional governments in Somalia and Ethiopia regarded each other cautiously. Both were threatened by separatist movements and both had an interest in maintaining the integrity of internationally recognized borders. As conditions in Somalia worsened on account of civil strife, the collapse of central authority, and the disruption of food production and distribution, tens of thousands of Somalis fled to Ethiopia, creating a massive refugee situation in that country by early 1992. Sharing land borders with both Somalia and Ethiopia, Djibouti believed it was in the long-term interests of the Horn of Africa region if both countries remained intact. Djibouti's president, Hassan Gouled Aptidon, attempted to mediate between the provisional government and the SNM and offered his capital as a neutral meeting place. In June 1991, Djibouti served as the venue for a national reconciliation conference between the USC and several other groups. With most of Djibouti's diverse population consisting of ethnic Somalis, Aptidon's concern about Somalia's future was not entirely altruistic. The Somalis of Djibouti belonged overwhelmingly to the Iise clan, traditional rival of the Isaaqs who dominated the SNM. The Djibouti Iise tended to be suspicious of the *****, believing that they discriminated against their Iise kinsmen in northern Somalia. This concern had prompted Djibouti in 1990 to assist in the formation and training of a separate Iise movement that challenged the SNM before and after the overthrow of Siad Barre. From Djibouti's perspective, a united Somalia composed of many clans afforded more protection to the Iise than a northern republic controlled by *****. Kenya was concerned about the situation in southern Somalia, which continued to be unstable throughout 1991. Somali refugees, both civilian and military, had crossed the border into northern Kenya to escape the fighting. The refugees included more than fifty close associates of Siad Barre who were granted political asylum. Since the provisional government had announced its intention to try these officials, this action had the potential to provoke political problems between Kenya and Somalia. By early 1992, tens of thousands of Somalis were being sheltered in makeshift refugee camps in northern Kenya.

This is not considered 'takeover' of any sort, but simply the UIC is trying to bring some law and order into the lawless south,so far they have done oustanding job including bringing what use to be the world's most dangerous city,Xamar under law and order(wax wada qabsi iyo kaladanbayne). I think each and every city and town in Southern Somalia needs that considering the status quo or the previous status of every region in the South.But let us not refer it as a take over of any kind,thus people might be Qabiil motivated and will start to think and see the Islamic courts union as another way of Qabiil X to extend any power it might have had in the region,which isn't true, and that is clear to those who have open mindset.It's not a take over,they are only doing the job that has been left and failed to do by everyone else in the past 16 or so years, including the current mess in Baidhabo. collecting the weapons which are in possession of the civilians is timely, they are neither aiming on winning people's minds this way, that takes care of itself when one observes their good will ,but this is more like doing the right thing .

dadkani ciyaalsanaa horta uff.

^exactly bro.You got it, that was my only intention, which is anyone can publicize the wrong doing of one,in which I have always stayed away from,but the purpose of this thread is nothing more than to shove on the face of those who think arrests only take place in Hargeysa nothing more. I know we are Muslims, but sometimes, getting down and getting dirty is the only way to go.But I have to except your advice Khalaf, a bright individual you are, you are right it does no good.I hope the ears of others are open as well to let your good advice sink in. thanks.

^and How might you explain the man in which you give full support to,warlord Abdullahi Yusuf Ahmed.Isn't he a one to befit in there as well, or your only seem to think of green grass only when he is not present in any image?

^Ask Duke why Puntland expelled and denied Southern Somalis from entering their regoin.I bet he will deny that as well. Mr.ME Waar ninkaagan dadka ugu sheekaynaya Hargeysa iskaga yaaca, waxba kama dhagaysanayo, inta aad waxaa aaminsantay.Waxaan ku dhihi lahaa, ku noqo Hargeysa soo arag, una sheeg cidaad tahay, bal then will see if anyone gives a darn of what you are.Do an expirement.

Maxkamada Magaalada Bosaaso Oo Shan Sano Oo Xukun Aar-gudasho Ah Ku Riday Muwaadinad Reer Hargeysa Ah.. Somaliland.Org — Boosaaso, Soomaliya — 13 October, 2006 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Xaawa Xusen Xandule oo ah haweeney dhalinyaro ah oo reer Somaliland ah oo mudo haatan laga joogo sadex bilood booqasho ku tagtay magaalada Bosaaso oo ay degan tahay walaasheed ayaa lagu eedeyay in ay waday howlo shirqool ah oo ka dhan ah dadka ku nool magaalada Bosaaso. Waxana lagu eedeeyay in ay Somaliland soo dirtay. Xaawa Xusen waxa loo taxaabay xabsiga magaalada Bosaaso ka dib markii ay ciidanka magaaladu xabsiga u taxaabeen kuna soo eedeeyan in ay howlahaasi waday waxana la soo taagay maxkmad ku taalada magaalada Bosaaso ka dibna bishan bilowgeedii ayaa maxkamada magaalada Bosaaso waxa ay ku xukuntay shan sano oo xadhiga. Waxa kale oo Xaawa loo gaystay intii ay ku jirtay xabsiga magaalada Bosaaso jidh dil aad u xun kaasi oo dadkii arkay ay sheegeen in ay ka muuqdaan jidhkeeda dusheeda. Xaawa Xusen oo aan waxba galabsan waxa ay dadka ku nool magaalada Bosaaso sheegeen in ay aad ugu faraxsan yihiin xukunka lagu riday maadama ayay yidhaahdeen ZamZam loogu aargudaayo. Waxana ay sheegeen in Xaawa la marsiiyo ayay yidhaahdeen wadadii la mariyay ZamZam. Ehelada Muwaadinad Xaawa Xusen ayaa sheegay in ay aad uga warwarsan yihiin xaalka ay ku sugan tahay inantoodu. Iyo waliba sida ay u tahay qof aan dambi galin, waxanay sheegeen in ay dhowr jeer arrintaasi kala hadleen masuuliyiinta sare ee Puntland xaalkooda balse ay u sheegeen in ay ugu aarayaan ZamZam sidaasi daraadeedna ay nin walba markii tahay. Sidoo kale ururada Xuquuqal Insaanka ee magalada Bosaaso ayaan war cad ka soo saarin sababta loo xidhay Xaawa Xusen Xandule iyo waliba jidh dila loo gaystay, Tan iyo markii ay soo baxday sheekada ah in Xaawa Xusen Xandule lagu xidhay xabsiga magaalada Bosaaso waxa ay dadka ku nool magaalada Hargeysa aad isha ugu hayeen bal halka uu maro xaalkeedu. Hasa yeeshe waxa ay rajadu luntay markii lagu jidh dilay xabsiga dhexdiisa iyo waliba xukunkaasi lagu riday. wixii warara ee ku soo kordha xaalka muwaadinad Xaawa Xusen waxa aad kala socon doontaan halkan, oo aanu si toosa idiinku soo gudbin doono kolba wixii ku soo kordha Xigasho: Golisnews.com