^Good God. Didn't see this one. Well, If I were Pland I wouldn't be laughing so hard today, Somaliland iyo Puntlad are side by side, and god forbid future clashes are possibility. So don't waste your eneryg on this for now.

Originally posted by Emperor: ^Mj bad cas, OK then may be its better to try Israel, who knows you may be lucky with a second attempt... I know you aren't capable of producing something cheweable saaxib. Soo again, with all due respect to your manly hood, nin iska dhig oo wax raganimo leh ku hadal, hadii kale waqtiga ha iga lumin. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by General Duke: ^^Genocide and massacre such easy words for you. You forget how much you wanted war in the south when the clan courts were on their warpath. So it's not genocide, everyone but a TFG supporters know it. Okay, I would love to hear from you then, what do you call it when 1000 people die in less than a week? wanted war in the south? looool :confused: who me or you. Maybe you are forgetting it's not my uncle who is making mess of things down there, it's your uncle and you support him. Don't blame me for your own uncle's doings.

mr. me, You are disapointing me to the minute. Those comments were made by one man, Faysal Cali warabe, so who is THEY? 2. What letter to Isreal? Yes it said the name of Cigal on it, but everyone who has the least amount of brains knows that was not authentic. Just by believing that, you are making folks like me question your intillegence. 3. What thousands of somalis deported? man you are getting desperate. There were some, however maybe you forget we are the same Somaliland that is recieving thousands into Somaliland today after Pland refused to recieve them. But as always a hater always looks at the bad side of the story. 4. Who said we are English orphans, who said the Queen is our mother? Wallahi these people have no shame, so you would utter anything in order to enlarge your hate and anomosity against Somaliland. Go ahead as you plz. Tell me or enlighten me those somali fathers you speak of? I hope it's not Siyad Barre. by the way do you still support Siyad Barre's autoricites against Somaliland.

No, we won't hopefully as far as bringing Ethiopian troops to commit genocide against other somalis. BTW...mr. Emperor that is the TFG I am talking about which you SUPPORT.

mr. me, you know I had the last word in that discussion. I gave you all the answers, you ran out of questions I think. As for oodweyne, as I understand he doesn't mingle with our kind, we aint on his level yet, so relax.I have seen him tear people apart, laakin adiga nac qoriile iyo diaper ayuu kuu xidhay remember that.lool Hunguri, Dahir Riyale Kahin, the President of Somaliland is former NSS, yet voted in by the people. Perhaps you might not know it, but he is not from the majority tribe. Now, name any other region that is capable of voting a man who is from aside the majority tribe into office even knowing that he has history of wrong doings against the very people. I would like to see if Puntland can instal Afqudhac. As I understand he was Vice President for even Abdullahi Yusuf in Pland, therefore he should have been the President by now since Abdullahi Yusuf left the post. Where did this Cadde Muse came from all of sudden? in Somaliland Cigal died, Riyale was installed, regardless of his qabiil, cuz the constituion said that. Aaliyah As you can see I am answering well at least trying to answr the questions asked here, so why don't you answer mind. 1. Do you support the TFG, since you are claiming to be proud somali sista masha Allah. This has nothing to do with qabiil, but I here to prove that folks such as you are nothing but what I refer as fake flag wavers. I am puting you on the spot. You love Somali so much, then what is your position regarding the TFG, which is supported by Ethiopia which in turn killed 1,000 somali people in less than a week. Over to you now sister.

Originally posted by Che-Guevara: Let's first be few issues to rest. You stated reer Sanaag and Sool support Somaliweyn simply of cuz the Qabiil connection. That's an assertion you made. I would like to know how you come to that conclusion. 1. Majority of them support the TFG. They give hiil iyo hooba because they associate clanwise with a man that spearheads the TFG, Abdullahi Yusuf. So, a one who supports the TFG doesn't really give thing about Somaliwayne. I could argue that Planders say they support Somaliwayne, yet they support their man, does that mean they have love for Somalinimo absulately not, once again qabiil is the factor. It's really out there, we can see it. I don't need to sugar coat it for you. It is my thinking even though Reer Sool and Sanaag want to be part of Somalia, their reasons for staying with union varies, but few important ones that comes to mind are: 1. Their ancestors fought along all other Somalis to attain this republic. Currently as we speak there is no republic, the republic that once existed was fought by all Somalis, how ill visioned are you che? Everyone fought for the Somali republic or even attempted to annexed Somali galbeed, all somalis shed blood for that bloody war, so you can't say that one particular side fought for the Somali republic, which doesn't exist as we speak offcourse. 2. Their communities have vested interest in terms of relationships and properties not in Pland, but all over the south. They are econimically, politically and culturally integrated into Somali proper. Very weak point mr. che. If we compared which side of the aisle they vested their interests as far economially, culturally, it would be Somaliland. As the folks in Sool and Sanaag have more integrated with Somaliland than the South. Yes there are some who lived down south or moved there since 60s, however for hundred of years, they have shared everything with Somalilanders, so that is not a good excuse. Let us even assume that was Today? Somaliland is the most prospering region, yet they oppose it though they know they could gain many things such economical development. A good example would be the difference between Awdal and Sool. Awdal has benefited and Sool is still lagging behind. Both regions is resided by non X tribes. I still fail to understand what it means to be proper Somali though....and note one thing, all Somalis have the same culture, that is not an excuse either. [quote3. The Somaliland administration has given a sufficient enough reason and explanation for reer Sanaag and Sool to break ties with the south. Actually Somaliland doesnt' rule nor have any say in most parts of Sool, it's absent. Their kinsmen from Puntland rule most parts of sool and Eastern Sanaag. Somaliland hasn't been given teh chance to even try to meet with elders or groups from the area. No Somaliland's politica figure can show up there, even if their was to build a school or hospital. The first things that would come to mind would be he is from Hargeysa, therefore he has no right to be here. I doubt it is only Qabiilism that motivates reer Sanaag and Sool, that's to say Qabiil doesn't play a part in their decisions. Offcourse not. Qabiil is not the only key factor but it's the biggest one that motivates them to not side with Somaliland. I think if Puntlad was the one the seceeding, you would be looking at sool and Eastern Sanaag right there with them. And Saaxib, could tell us what is Somaliland looking for that couldn't be addressed within the confines of proper Somali? Very simple. What do you have? what have you provided? Everything about Southern somalis or should I say 'proper' somalis has been a big failure. in addition,been there done that. Somaliland just emerged yesterday. They were the first ones to raise the flag or call for unity, I wonder what made them changed their mind? They risked it all for the sake of unity in 1960 when the deal was for Somaliland to have prime minister and the south the Presidency, did they get that? NO, still they were loyal citizens and were determined to make sure Somaliwayne suceeds. I think it has been long enough that somaliland and its people have seen that the case of Somaliwayne is unattainable dream and the people who until today claim to be pro Somaliwayne are unsure of how to attain that goal. Some people have their priorities mixed.

loool...I didnt' compelled you to come in here sister. but few questions for you, hope to make it clear. 1. Do you ms. Aaliyah support the TFG. I think you do, therefore you are not promoting Somalinimo, it's only claim. So that would mean, you oppose Somaliland, because of oen thing, qabiil.

Mr. me don't you think you ar giving yourself little too much credit. 'I dealt with that man' kulahaa. More than anything, the truth hurts, but Mr. me that man thinks you aint on his level yet, hence he assigned to 'kids corner'. So you are stock with us for a while, until further noticed. mr. me, anyone from that area that chooses or is in support of the Somaliland case is Somalilander. Though you are from there, you dont' support it, that would make you not a Somalilander.

Originally posted by Artful Dodger: Bada Cas You made the right point here and that is that sadly enough gabiil still dominates Somalia and it is the reason people in parts of Sool and Sanaaq wish to use to support puntland, but that is a a matter of their choice and should be left up to them. Saaxib, I have made clear to our brothers/sisters on the other side of th aisle, that we do indeed respect their wishes. Go on as they will. However what I seek from them is NOT to act as though they are free from qabiil, as though they on the right side of the fence when in reality they would anything for their qabiil in other times. It seems to me whenever Somaliland case is on tap, they come runing with Somali patriotism and fake and empty flag waving. That is pure hypocry.

The Point, Only you know what can satify you, howevever. In this world we live in today, you have to lead by example. People raise the blue flag sing 'somaliyey tosoo' yet in reality they owe more loyalty to qabiil than to country at large. That being said, Somaliland doesn't see anyone promoting good governance in Somalia. Every single member that is elected in Southern Somalia is former criminal or a foe to the Somaliland people. Let us assume that Abdullahi Yusuf and the TFG suceeded without ever bringing Ethiopia into Somalia. Do you think Somaliland would join that federal government? I think not, the reason being is because they know what kinda of individual Abdullahi Yusuf is. So let us seperat fantasies or what 'ifs' from the discussion. Somaliland is proving itself that they can manage their part of map pretty nicely without even much of foreign aid, at the same token the other Somalis are proving that they are unable to get their acts together given millions of dollars worth of aid and expense of many efforts to reconciliate their differences. These people for some reason don't want to get their acts together. 'waxaa layidhi tima jaraha, intaanad timaha ka jaran, kuwiisa fiiri marka hore'. Again, Somalilanders have chosen to remain seperate and have absulately nothing to do with Southern Somalia. This is permanant decision reached by the Somalilanders, therefore let us not waste time on 'why' however let us discuss 'how'. How can the trust between the people be restored and how can their be lasting peace between Somaliland and Somalia without another blood shed. To simply answer your question, it's the people's choice. They say no to fake unity, and nay to federal government which is another case of unity.

che, You are still failing to see big parts of my arguments. Instead of speaking for the sake of debate or to oppose you should dig deeper into my thoughts and what I have highlighted. Eastern Sanaag and Sool are mostly supporters of the TFG as we speak. There have been many troops that were recruited from the area. Offcourse they know that entity is in error, however do they serve it because it's 'proper' somali government, NO. They serve it because it's government which they feel connected as far as qabiil, with Abdullahi Yusuf being their kinsmen. That being said, they would rather not ever associate with Somaliland, not because Somaliland wants to seceede, however it has alot to do with the majority tribe there which they oppose. There is no such thing as somali proper, there is not a single group that is serving the interests of greater Somalis, the UIC were but they are no longer in power, therefore, each clan and each region will side with their kinsmen, which is the case with Sool and Eastern Sanaag. Most of the inhabitants from this area associate themselves with Puntland, though Puntland has done little or nothing for them, again qabiil loyalty is the key factor here. In addition, to take such stance is not about qabalism or necesarily wrong, however it's NOT about Somalinimo. Yesteryears proud patriots are the ones dragging Ethiopians into somali soil. Somalinimo or the need for Somali unity is a claim, small group of people believe it in their hearts, however the majority will do anything to protect their interests, I don't need to give you further example, take the TFG as an example. Seperate those two key issues. Xiinfaniin, Unity without the tools is meaningless. The tools I am speaking of are the people. The people which consider themselves as pro Somaliwayne, the majority of them do not really know how to attain it. Somaliland's quest whether it might be that of one clan or not is thus far working. With better leadership, I am sure Somaliland would have been alot heck better. The only thing that has worked properly ever since the civil wars has been the entity in Somaliland, whatever somaliland is doing has not been proven wrong, becuase it's the most developed region in the former somali republic, perhaps the most organized in all levels. The so called proud somalis have not been yet able to prove that they can govern even their side of the map, with that as evidence it gives Somaliland even more reasons to seperate. Aaliyah, I have already highlighted, though I doubt you read it. But I do respect the wishes of Sool and Eastern Sanaag follks, they can do as THEY WISH. Secondly, I am not accusing them of being qabalists. Their support for Pland or Abdullahi Yusuf who suprise suprise promote Somaliwayne though we know what they have done is about qabiil relations rather than somalinimo. They would do anything for their kinsmen even standing right beside them when they are doing the worst things, like bringing Ethiopians to somalia to kill people, and at the same time would oppose Somaliland, though they claim they are against Somaliland because Sland wants to seceede, however in reality terms, they are in fear of being plotically dominated. This is not about Somalinimo, qabiil is the factor in everything these days.

lol@all somali in bed with Ethiopia. nice one Khalaf. Ethiopia ayaa inagu niikinaysaa. Kadaa Melez dheh wow.! loool

Well, the brother might not be banned after all. How do any of you know this I am wondering? Anyways, man have no fear, say what you need to say but keep away for some things. Don't attack someone directly or indirectly while using profound languages. Duke has been getting away with something like refering me 'mujaahid SNM'....

You have got to be kidding me. I don't want to come across as though I am protesting, but what the hell is going down here now? He was the most respectable dude in here, he was very articulate. Darn it.lool Anyways, Dodger, how do you know? Duke: If SNM is apprioriate with Somaliland at times, what can we refer to Puntland (buuqland perhaps) and the TFG..oh I forgot, we have many names for it. Like the ********** movement. TFG=Tigray founded government...I don't mind as long as I can my jabs across.

Originally posted by Artful Dodger: Because it is a basic prinicple of the United Nations Charter of Human for everyone to have a right for Self-determination if he or she seeks. it was confirmed in the 2001 referendum that the Somaliland population unanimously wished for this to happen. Another good point there Dodgerow. Hadii aynaan indhaha iska ridin, we all know the consequence and the outcome it could have when that basic right isn't allowed. Simple as that.

Che, Brother, the wishes of the people is the most important thing here. Can you name anything more important than that? From what happened in the previous union, the people in Somaliland have chosen to this time try a different way of life. Thus far though not recognised they have reached incredible goals, not expected from anyone specially considering the obstacles they had to deal with and how quick they recovered from the damages done by the previous dicatator regime! If you respect the people' wishes, then they have chosen to remain seperate. Only thing that can turn them back might be a force, though I doubt that is possible either, and I don't think you would suggest that would you? Secondly, again the troubled areas of Sool and Sanaag as I said have their wishes, I don't know if you missed my point there. But they can go their own seperate ways as well. Only the willing in this case can remain with Somaliland. In addition, the state of Awdal have every reason to stay wiht Somaliland as Awdal is better than it has EVER been, offcourse there are even some folks from Hargeysa, burco and Berbera against seccesion but their numbers are relatively small the same goes to Awdal. The majority of them support the Somaliland independence. If they weren't then it would have been evident like it's from Sool residents. Contrary to Sool and E. Sanag, the people in Awdal wave and do celebrate the Somaliland UDI (declaration of independence in '91) and flag and are one big important piece in the case of Somaliland, even the Riyale Kahin dude is from there as well as you might be aware of already. Finally, I am not accusing them folks in Eastern Sanaag and Sool of clanism, but I am saying it has less to do with the love of Somalinimo that Sool and Eastern Sanaag folks want to have nothing to do with Somaliland. They fear mostly of being dominated politically by Clan X which is the majority in Somaliland. That hasn't been the case for Awdal as Borama the capital of Awdal is more developed than Berbera and even Burco perhaps. As far as Qabiil wise, yes the city of Caynabo and Oog are both in Sool, both are resided by clans related to Hargeysa. Also Western Sanaag is resided by clans related to hargeysa, so they do want to remain with Somaliland. As you know Ceerigabo is resided in some parts clans related to majority tribe in Somaliland, though even the non X tribe in that area mostly SEEM to support Somaliland' case.

GD, Okay I am waiting your take on....make it seem reasonable as well. Forget whether i am getting better or worse, that isnt' the concern of anyone,but try to convice anyone please. Maakhir, brother, okay 95 technicals. You said it earlier, so if you don't mind sir, could you repeat it to these folks. Where Somaliland troops forced out by the Pland troops, or where they pressured by the elders and towns' people to withdraw and not start a war in their city? 95 technicals? whoooh, I think not. But anyhow if that is the truth then how could they have been crushed? lool

SW, Well I am not hard headed creature like some to deny everything but hey I can't say that Pland lost 40. If that is coming from Somaliland's side, it could well be exaggeration. One thing I know though is that Pland didn't gain Dhahar by use of force. They were outmuscled in reality. The way this happened was. Somaliland sent some ministers headed by the minister of sports (he hails from the area qabiil wise) and few others. Along with him were some troops in order try to safe guard in case something comes along. As expected it did, Puntland attacked with 17 technicals, they weren't able to defeat the guards with the ministers however the ministers went back to Ceerigabo in fear that war would esclate which they didnt' have enough man power in place to continue on. On second time around, the minister of Defense and 19 other ministers including the previous ones headed towards dhahar along with more weaponary and troops. This was the day that Pland troops withdrew from the city without a fight, because they wanted to regrouped, since Somaliland brought more troosp as well. In this time, the city of dhahar fell into the hands of the SL troops and the ministers. The troops whatever number they were set up two bases in East and west of the city. The following day, the Pland troops regrouped assaulted the city and concentrated their attacks on the two bases in both sides of the city. Somaliland lost 1 soldier (though Puntland said 5) and another was saverly injured in the battle. The battle continued on until late afternoon. The Pland troops were unsuccesful, because clearly the ministers were still in the city, and didn't leave until the next day when the news came of the minister's firing? why was he fired then is the question? As he said he demanded more troops and weaponary in order to keep the fight going and press onward the fight, which was never the intention of Somaliland to start full scale war at this time, but where there to take advantage of the time and try to influence the locals into their fold. Riyale then called the minister of defense and ordered him to withdraw immediately, while the minister demaned he wouldn't and needed more troops in order to turn this into full scale war. He was fired right on the spot without a delay. The troops then were told to withdraw after facing pressure also from the locals later on. They did. So what did Planders say? We crushed somaliland army.loool That is story lines and closer to the truth if you want to buy or not. What is your side of it.

For resupply. Did you not know that SL troops only lost 2 soldiers and few were injured...that is basially it. Besides, ask the locals from Dhahar, they will tell you what happened exactly. The elders demanded that SL troops withdraw from the areas for the sake of peace. the colonel and mr. Waqar refused the orders that is when he was fired. Mr.Waqaf refused them orders from Riyale Kahin, although now Riyale is spining as though he was the one pushing the wagon forward. It's self defeat without even being defeated militarily.

Only thing missing out in the list are the corrupt ones, these names i never heard of, because mostly they might have been civilians to begin with. The list is missing the big stooges. The TFG is getting more and more stoogy every minute. It had no hope to begin with, but now it officially hit rock bottom bottom.

Khalaf, that is it...you got it saaxib. The biggest stooge of all is the TFG though, they have done what many others haven't done, bringing Ethios to the country, so they are biggest of them all. Sh. Cumar Faaruuq said it in audio long ago.

When the SL troops were there, the elderly were all silent and Puntland was blaming them for welcoming the SL ministers as result of their silence. They did welcome them, and today other residents there might be expressing their views, different views as always to everything. Buuhoodle welcome Somaliland ministers few days ago, and now Pland ministers, to every story there is two sides to it.

the Ethiopian troops can sieze all they want, they had high casualties, and were the ones crying for sieze fire. The TFG as always is the thing under the bottom of the Ethiopians, they dont' posses much power and would be dealt with in a week if Ethios aren't there to safe guard them.

^Do you have one of your own, the question was asked by Che, I will wait for his response of whether or not he thinks my answers are good enough or not. meanwhile, if you have some of your own, fire away. P.S get the name right, how long will you be let to refer some as a nick that isn't theirs. Is that how ill visionary you are. you have been told to not name call people, yet you continue to do so....hmmm.