mr. me, Nice attempt but that is the case of Somaliland which you are using to your advantage. That is where we Somalilanders stand. I am not convince nor do we want anything to do with Somaliwayne and another union, so what will you do? That is where we stand at the moment. So as I stated to another lad here while ago. 1. beg me to join you. 2. Wish me luck and third option which is good for neither of us.. 3. War, to settle everything. Somaliland has already made its' case, it's striving towards recogntion, the only side missing is your side of the fense....so think about that for a moment. yes chew on it. Xiinfaniin, Yes the people from Awdal all the way Western Sanaag. The people I can say who are clearly against Somaliland case are Sool and Eastern Sanaag folks. That means if referundum was held, they would lose out to the majority from Awdal, Hargeysa, Togdheer, Saaxil, western Sanaag. Tactics and other hidden agendas I am not aware, however one thing I know the more failures in the south and the more they show they arent capable of governing themselves let alone forming greater somalia, the possibility that internation community will grant nationhood to Somaliland which waited and worked on for years now.

loool....sure enough. Looking forward. it's not sillyness it's called sense of humour mate, try it. It does your mind a fine rest.

mr. me.. Hey sweatheart join the discusion or stay on the side lines. I am still waiting your little usual calalcal of we are Somalis who share the same culture, race crap.

Che, Let us not blind ourselves here. Because quite honestly, I can go on and on all day, and give the same answer everytime. I have done it at least twice now. One more time here it goes. The question you are repeating over and over again is the same,which i provided with plainly simple, crystal clear answer. Your question is something like why wouldn't somaliland become an automous state part of federal of Somlia? correct? Now, being part of automous state of federal of Somalia or simply being another state doesnt' make any difference to Somalilanders. It's still the same deal. They WISH to be their own COMPLETELYL seperate entity that have their own passport, army, flag all due to the wishes of Somalilanders. Sool and Eastern Sanaag can make their wishes, whether it will be respected by Somaliland, I don't know, because currently Somalilanders arent getting respect for their chosen path, so it goes both ways I gues. However, if you expect the entity in Hargeysa to respect the wishes of Sool and Eastern Sanaag then I expect the same from POSSIBLE entities in Muqdisho simple as that. And to borrow your statementwill not create a mayhem in Somaliland in its futile quest to force union down the people throats.

Xiin, looooool....saaxib no one is dancing around anything. The anwer is PEOPLE' CHOICE. What do you have to say about that?

Originally posted by Elysian: lol... just getting started you say. You really think you'll convince Centurion, xiin and the others? Why not just be honest and say their arguments are legitimate, but not convincing enough for a united Somalia? I do not expect to convince anyone. However one doesnt have the choice but to be convice when a whole population decide they want to try their own seperate life style. Convincing enough or otherwise, that is hard reality that one should except. BTW.....I do respect their political stance.

Che-Guevara, First, Pland is considered parts of Southern Somalia. The day Xamar becomes peaceful state is the day that negotitionas can start. Second, the wishes of the people come into play here. The Somalilanders have said no to unity and yes to Secession. It's really meaningless to argue, however I do respect your opinion. The Point, Nothing to debate here sir. The people's wishes are on the table. If the people in Somaliland have decided to go down that path, what exactly is there to create big fuzz about? Somalilanders have made up their mind, I dont think electing TFG like so called government will convince anyone. As for economical liability. Did you not know that Somaliland is sitting on natural gas, the only thing that Southern Somlia has that we don't is Galay (corn) and banana. but then again we can import that as well, not a problem. Soo maal, Though, you showed up bit late, but nonethless that is fine. I am NOT labeling Sool and Eestern Sanag folks as qabalist, but I have made the assertion that simply they support the TFG which we all know doesn't represent all somalis nor is working for the interests of anyone. therefore I believe the claim that those individuals case that they aren't on Somaliland banwagon isn't about nationlistic, but rather in fear of being politically dominated by tribe X, so they would rather side with Abdullahi Yusuf who is their closest kinsmen. Not to say they whole population is just as I pointed out, however majority of such tribe side with Abdullahi Yusuf regardless of the TFG is about as long as they feel 'safe' in an entity led by their clansmen. Again, reer sool and Sanag can go their own way if they choose to. Aaliyah, No I don't support Faysal Cali Warabe, Riyale Kahin. However I support the wishes of the people of Somaliland, they want to secede, that is what I respect you should as well. Besides, I always thought you supported the TFG. The reason I brought that up is I believe one who supports the TFG shall not have say in this debate. There are no majority of Somalis anymore. The ones in Xamar don't consider the ones in Planders as true somalis, however they consider them as pro Xabashis who dragged Ethiopians into the country to slaughter them. Secondly, sure enough IN yey and Riyale are individuals. However, majority of one tribe supports him and his cause. And suprise suprise they wave the blue flag....ring a bell, yes fake flag wavers. That is where I got that idea from. Now: Some of us are hiding in the smoke. But I have to ask, who is who here? I am supporting Xabashi invasion into my land, yet I am claiming to be for Somaliwayne and I am arguing against the case of Somaliland becasue they are dividing brotherly people isn't a good case saaxibayaal. So let us seperate the pretenders from the real somaliwayn supporters. I know some here are arguing in order to get the chance to critize an entity like Somaliland while arguing for Somaliwayne and yet they support the TFG. So who is who?

lool...what. nearly 3000 posts in less than two years, plus I work and go to school full time.lool I am not as easy nut to crack inader, find another way in. lool

looool@ 'we didn't expect this'!, maxay kale hadaa tolow ma in la casuumo. Hoo bariiska.

Okay Centurion. Elysian, As far as xiiq, I am only getting started loool.

Originally posted by Maakhir: The point I was making is that recently people in Sanaag have been controled by stooges who do not manifest actions that constitute socially responsible behavior. They, for instance, disrupt the flow of our allocated aid for political reasons. Local sources tell me that the man named Cashuur have disrupted and prevented international aid from the secessionist entity mainly he was instructed to behave this way to enrich himself and remain at the helm of security affairs and label anyone from Hargeisa "somaliland" which in technicality means "terrorists". His authority supersedes all even to the detriment of the community. I have only shown analytical proof of the two entities, as to which entity poses more danger to the region in terms of meddling and intervention. With my heart as crystal clear and looking at both sides of the issue, I think Maakhir has great point here. Our dear friend our Caamir on the other hand is looking at the situation 'reer hebel bay way isa sooraceen' inaga maxaa inaga maqnaysiiyey? that is sad really. My point would be: okay let us say that poeple in Sanaag aren't on the same boat with Somaliland, however what possibly would litttle aid brought to some areas in Sanaag do that is causing Puntland to gather up arms and resist it regardless?

Emperor, looooooooool....yaakhii ilaaq badanidaa. Waa kusidee sowdiga indhaga nagaga riday bahal been ah oo malaasan. So once again, ''anything you can do I can do betterrrrr'', are the two 'top' posts you are speaking more soundenly important than Riyale' post of being the biggest head in Somaliand? lool..I think not. As for anything else, you should have seen the anger on reer Awdal's faces when Geedi Fanax claimed he was their PM? looool

^^^ you keep editing eh to throw me off. Have confidence in what you write saaxib. Because you deleted your reply and edited, I shall mind as well to be fair. Awdal, Hargeysa, Saaxil, Togdheer, parts of Sanaag and few cities of Sool such as Oog and Caynabo are all on the bandwagon of Somaliland' quest for indepenence. In additon, if its' non sensical to claim other people lands and force an idealogy which they don't want to except down their throat, then to all fairness, Southern Somalia cannot force my 'lil' area to join them on mythology like Somaliwayne. Fair enough!

Originally posted by Emperor: oohw is it? So now we have Riyaale as the leader of SL and his cousin represnting SL people(Clans) in the TFG, this shows how awdal plays a mojore role in tha making of Somali society. ....so which one plays 'better role' or more noticeable role. The President or foreing minister? Violet, I thought you supported the TFG based on nationlistic view and not adeero adeero kinda of deal?!

The ball is in your court, soft words are the only options you have, what other options do you have in pursuading me to join you in this 'Somali saving project'? I am the property owner that is Somaliland, I can rule it as I want to. I can even decide to annex it to Yemen and share a country with them if I feel like my interests are rested there, therefore, you on the other hand have only two option, the third one is up in the air. 1. Kneel down and beg me to join you. 2. To wish me luck. and the third is up in the air. 3. Forcefull annexation. Morever, you made the assertion, 'Hargeysa was never' solely populated by 1 clan. My prove has to be simply because I am from there, lived there from generations to generations, is that good enough for you? During the Siyad Barre bombing compaign, he used the slogans of 'elemination of X' clan from the area they inhabited MOSTLY, that include Hargeysa, Burco and Berbera,which were leveled in order to kill as many members of the dominant tribe there. If clan X wasnt dominant, I don't think Barre would have been stup1d enough to kill his kinsmen would he? Secondly, let me flip this on the other side, what prove doYOU have that it was not populated by 1 dominant tribe, hence you made the claim?

Originally posted by Sophist: At the same time the secessionists spared no effort in adding fuel to the fire raging in our national capital by trying to forge an alliance, albeit false, with the ****** – a clan which is unswervingly committed to the unity and territorial integrity of our country. If my memory serves correctly, Somaliland IS the one helping innocent civilians from Muqdisho who have found home in Somaliland whom plane was turned back by Puntland authorities. Meanwhile Puntland is the one who is rounding them up and sending them back. On the highlighted statement, the author comes across as though he is 1. in Support of the TFG (if not, have they written to voice against the massacre in Muqdisho). 2. A qabalist, who believes that 1 clan is promoting unity and territorial integrity. We, the Northern Somalis for Peace & unity (NSPU) condemn in the strongest terms these nefarious acts on the part of the secessionists and we pray that our people throughout Somalia will surmount their difficulties and unite for peace and prosperity with a view of securing a more stable future for posterity. Again, have these Somali lovers, I don't want to jump to conclusion, but have tehy condemn the killing spree in Xamar? Therefore, consistent with NSPU advocacy and commitment to peace and unity among all the citizens of the Somali Republic, we strongly urge and appeal to: The international community, specially the International NGOs, the UN, the EU, IGAD, and aid Donor countries/organizations to condemn the naked aggression of the secessionists entity, Somaliland, against the peaceful population of the Sool and Sanag Region and use their influence and leverage over the Hargeisa secessionists to refrain from undermining the current international efforts to stabilize the country. I was telling mr. Che yesterday, that there is no such thing as Somalis who love their country, always qabiil loyalty comes over loyalty owed to nationhood. A great example this is. The author actually thinks that there is an 'effort' to stablize the country when in reality the world turned against those who would stabalize the country, UIC. If my understanding is correct, they believe that the TFG is legit and are making the effort to stablize somalia, if that is case, then shred this piece and recycle it. Call on the remnants of the Somali National Movement (SNM), an ***** militia which in the confusion that followed the collapse of the central government in 1991, orchestrated the creation of ‘Somaliland’, to shed their banner of hate and refrain from actions and words that will once again lead to a conflict among the brotherly northern clans; and The steps taken by the SNM was a positive step to bring all tribes from the North under the shades of a trea in Buroa and reconciliate. The author is very short sighted and once again doesnt recognise the value that the SNM orchatrated conference in Burco holds and being the result of the peace throughout the North today (somaliland). May peace prevail among the long-suffering people of Somalia and may a new horizon of unity prosperity and prosperity dawns on our country. And may wisdom dawn on the bearers of hate. Jamal Hassan, only Allah knows what is in your heart, if this is sincere sympathy which you felt for your nation and my nation, then I say Amiin.

Warancadeh, They exist,but their favorite game is to bash Somaliland, that is not going to help their case. Keynan, Start with yourself, give up the support you have for TFG, it doesn't advocate unity, it's only creating a distance between somalis, and you know it.

Nin ayaa maalin iga qosliyey oo yidhi. Maadamo ay Somalida mid kasta oo kamid ah uu rabo in uu Madaxwayne noqto, waa in aan jago kasta madaxwayne usamayno. Macnihii xagii wasiirka la odhan lahaa, waa in layidhaa 'madaxwaynaha reer miyiga' ka beeraha, ka diyaaradaha, ka ciidanaka loool... Good solution wouldn't you say, since Somalis aren't complex thinkers to begin with?

Xiinfaniin With more of your kind, I think we could work many things out. Don't get me wrong, because I think everyone value unity. The only unity I can value is unity based on the Sharica law, not only I, but if we were to examine of the possibility of 'another' unity, then it would be through trustworthy leadership, perhaps like Sh. Shariif Axmed of UIC. However looking at the picture today, I don't see it happening. We can certainly sit here and talk about the idea, however when you have all sorts of problems and you can't tell who is advocating what and who is who....then it doesn't really give me any hope. You have Abdullahi Yusuf Axmed and many Planders with the exception of you saying they are proud Pats however then rallying behind a corrupt man like he who is by far the biggest enemy and rival to such believe. When you have warlords thugs claiming to be advocating for Somaliwayne at the same token stealing people' properties. Even at times threaten Somaliland's self governance. Those kinda of being and their acts only motivate Somaliland to further think that Somaliwayne is a myth, so far it appears to be. So without going in circles, let us say. South must bring their acts together. They need to come together and find a way Insha Allah to install a leader like Sh. Shariif Axmed. I think a man like he with clean record would appeal to many. Having a man like Abdullahi Yusuf Axmed, or any other formers of dark somali era politicians in power doesn't help anyone nor will any Somalilander hinder to fall for them again. Secondly, stay positive, recognise Somalilands' good doings, congradulate them for whatever they are doing. Because of all somali race perhaps with the exception of Djabuti, Somalialnd has been teh most helpful to the somali people. You don't see bloody wars that take teh lives of innocent people. There has been unright gain in Somaliland since the civil wars, with minimum loses of human life. Once again, everyone should give big thumbs up to that. With that kinda of attitude, not only will the case of Somaliwayne come across well and apeal to others, but would bring people closer. However, if Somaliland bashing becomes our favorite subject, without nothing good or postive to say, then by all means that motivates I and other Somalilanders to even wonder why even entertain the idea to consider a unity with such God forsaken beings. Thanks, OUT.

Originally posted by xiinfaniin: ^^^Whose majority are you talking about yaa Redka? If you talking about the clans of SNM rebels who fought against the regime of Barre, I say yes. And that’s why I said some want to secede. Adeer you could repeat these mantras about people decided this and people decided that, but at the end of the day Somaliland’s grievances are political in nature and could be addressed without full dismemberment of Somalia. To separate from a country in the midst of civil war is a dream gone bad, I say. Xiinfaniin, Puting myself in your shoes for a moment. It's really hard for me to imagine this somaliwayne thing and hwo it's even possible. Yes with determined people it would be however, with a population that cannot even set up the smallest, peacefull and functioning entity even with the help of foreigners doesn't give me all that hope. BTw...teh majority of Awdalites are as well.

Originally posted by Centurion: Somalilanders never purposefully seperated themselves from the rest of Somalia in the first instant. It was a consequence of the machinations of the Colonialism which resulted in the formation of 'Somaliland'. And neither was it a sovereign nation during colonisation (before 1960), merely a British protectorate. It was never in any way or form a nation on its own back in the days of British Colonial rule. There was no somali nation under the colonial powers, however when they left they did grant Somaliland a nationhood status which was recognised by more than 30 countries. Now like Xiin said, it is quite ethnically amoral(and in my opinion fantastically presumptious) for one clan to claim borders drawn up by some Lawyer in London to manifest British 'territory' as their natural borders and seek permanent secession. The whole world functions based on colonial border. If the country that claims to be strongest nation of the world has been colonized, almost every nations experienced some period of colonial dominations. If that was the case the Arab countries have no right to to be seperate entities and the fact that they are seperate thought they share same values is immoral, No? 'Somaliland' was never the sole habitat of 'Somalilanders'. Virtually all tribes were represented significantly in Hargeisa before the civil war; another reason why Somalilanders have no right to permanently secede. Somaliland was always resided by the majority of one tribe. However as a result of '77 war displacement the city of Hargeysa saw many somali migrants from Somali galbeed who settled there. Other than the city had always been a city dominated by one tribe, though even today there are large group of people from all areas of Somaliland who reside there, yet they are with the cause of Somaliland. BTW...never use the term 'never' specially without being sure of being right, you aren't. In 1960, 'Somalilanders' were amongst the loudest voices calling for the realisation of the dream; Somaliweyn. Somaliland did not join Italian Somaliland reluctantly, in fact the reason why the British protectorate sought Independence was to re unite with the rest of the country, for all clans understood (and i believe continue to understand) the importance of unity yes we were and today here we are for differnce case of Somalilandnimo, in fact the first to put the flag on the pole in teh heart of Hargeysa's liberty park with the beautiful peom of Abdullahi S. Timacadeh on the background. That being said, here is the area,that pro 'unity' are the weakest. So by all means, has unity worked? have we experience the importance of unity. Other than few years of goodness, the rest was something to forget about. Hopefully sometime i can get around to starting a thread in the Debate section on Somaliland, where we can properly scrutinise the 'justifications' of Somalilanders for an independant sovereign nation. Once again, it's human right and Somaliland does have enough case to satify or meet the requirment of internation community. However as the current law says, the south must first get a governant then nogiatiate with somaliland of whether they are for the seccesion of Somaliland, however whazzup with the South? I hope the world doesn't come to an end with Southern Somalia in choas and Somalialnd still looking to expand to its full potential.

Originally posted by me: Ladies and gentlemen, the last couple of days here on SOL have proven that the secessionist have no case, other then because 'we' want to. What reasons do you that I joined with the South? Other than the usual we have the same culture, faith, color...etc... How many distinct Arab countries are there. Maybe you don't want to grasp the effectiveness of when someone says, they don't want to go down that path, but would want to go down that path. THe somaliland case is very clear and out there, its' all about the people and their God given right to decide, to choose their own self governance. Offcourse one who believes that Dictator Siyad Barre was hero is vailed from that. For example: if I say to you mr. me. That we do share in everything as far religion, language, same race, however I feel like you dont' have what it takes to form good brotherly relationship since we have had previous experience, then I shall decide to go on with my own way. What would your reply be? As for your last ill comment. Just to remind you Somaliland has been considered the best story to happen in Africa, I don't see any loses there saaxib. The only bright spot shining in the former somali republic is Somaliland. So if you weren't filled with hate, you would infest in Somaliland and buy a house there long ago. NOw the housing prices are hiting the roof, speaking of losing an oppurtunity. :rolleyes:

^Xiin the majority do want to secede. Centurion, What is immoral about the decision reached by millions in Somaliland? Everywhere in the world has borderline drawn by the colonizers, no one is safe from such markings anywhere. The reality is Somalilanders simply WISH to not join or get involved in another disasterous union. What more and better reason is there? They want to go down their own way, therefore it's the right of every human being to decide what they want to do and how they want to do it. Somaliland is resided by people, the people there want to rule Somaliland based on their own system of governance, stand under thier own cloth of colors (flag). The only two choices you have is to 1. Beg them to join you. or simply 2. To wish them good luck. You cannot in any way shape or form insist that someone is wrong by doing what they think is the best of their interest. I know you wouldn't understand and would rather loose your time and mind over Somaliwayne myth which is unattainable by the current standards. Ther is nothing wrong in dreaming about Somaliwayne and how it would be like for all somalis to join hands and sing 'AAbo whatever' however that dreame has already been dreamed, that dreame has already turned out to be a nightmarish, therefore, to insist that we go on voyage for the revival of such dream would only bring back distant memories which other wise have been forgotten about. Somaliland is doing very well Masha Allah, the only two options you have are listed above. Thanks for your time. Out.

Originally posted by Emperor: ^YOu are trying to refute all those incidents, aren't you? feeling shameful? LOL Mr Warabe is the leader of a SL opposition party, isn't he? Better come up with something else I have the right to refute them, and if anyone here should be shameful I think it's the person making the accusation and those believing it. Do you actually that Cigal sent a letter to Isreal while signing 'sharon, I shall remain your servent' or something to the effect. As for Faysal Cali Warabe, you said yourself? He is the leader UCID party one of three parties. Therefore, can the comment of one man be blamed on whole region by saying 'they said it'? That is like What democratic party chair man would say as oppose to Republic, I don't think the whole of United States would be quoted as though the whole region believes in such.... Speaking of coming up with something else, ehem yes do us favor plz.

Violet....he was refering to 'rich white kidz'. The dude's parents owned dry cleaning bussiness, when they got the news that they their son killed over 30 people, they fainted. I feel sorry for the family's victims as well as teh parents of this maniac.