these things are way over priced.... they should cost no more then $20. and apples service sux, when my shuffle wouldn't recharge, it took 2 months to replace it!

Hi NGONGE, I assume you live in the UK. I think things maybe different in the UK then they are here in the US as far as the influence of groups that claim to represent Muslims. Here in the US the there are between 5 to 10 million Muslims. A large percentage of them are African Americans. The immigrant Muslims are mostly not born in the US but moved here. The immigrant Muslims also identify more with their race or nationality of origin then with the greater Muslim community, and since most immigrants from the same country tend to live in the same neighborhood and cities, many masjids are ‘ethnic’ in nature. Because these communities are thus divided, most ‘Muslim’ organizations are in fact very local and ethnic in nature. The ‘big’ Islamic organizations that cut across ethnic lines tend to be political in nature and are mostly dominated by Palestinian politics or are legal/civil rights organizations run by American (African American or white) Muslims. Spiritually the Muslims are either Muslims that practice Islam or that don’t. The Islam bashers like Rushdie and Manji never address Muslim audiences because 1. They never address ethic communities (can you imagin Rushdie at one of those Somali conventions) 2. They never address masjids audiences. People like Rushdie and Manji get airtime on the news, talk shows, and get books and articles published but that does not mean they have a Muslim audience. A very small minority among the Muslims may read their work but the wider Muslim community in the US is not an audience to them because: 1. They don’t access English language media 2. They do not attend venues where people such as Rushdie or Manji present their works or 3. Do not watch or read the media, such as talk shows or major English language newspapers where the views of these people are presented. Most Muslims here access primarily ethnic media. And people like Rushdie are not featured on ethnic media. People like Rushdie address audiences that already agree with their ideas. Basically they preach to their quire. Rushdie and his ‘Muslim’ supporters are so far outside the views of the vast majority of Muslims (and other mainstream religious groups), for examples from the Rushdie article you posted I quote “reformed Islam would reject conservative dogmatism and accept … that differences in sexual orientation are not to be condemned, but accepted as aspects of human natureâ€, I think you will agree that this is such a radical idea and so fundamentally at odds with Muslim thought that it’s not even an issue for discussion among the majority of Muslims. But acceptance of homosexuality and such issues are in discussion in some Christian churches and among gay activists. I believe when Rushdie makes such suggestion; he is looking to get the attention of these churches and gay activists and is not addressing the Muslims. Another time that he addresses his audience of antimuslim conservatives or gay activists while pretending to be addressing Muslims is when he talks of Muslims being in “intellectual ghetto of literalism and subservience†with regards to their religious believes or suffering from “defensive paranoiaâ€. Anyone who does the most basic of research will learn that Muslims are richly diverse in their understanding of religion (regardless of whether or not this is a good thing or a bad thing, it’s a fact). Rushdie and his like insult Muslims and aid antimuslim groups by holding Muslims accountable for political developments or actions that do not involve them. Because Rushdie and Manji do not have THE (not some) muslims as their audience, their ideas do not reach the muslims. But Rushdie and Manji and their like are featured on some western sources and when they are they address the groups that access those news sources, which do not include a significant numbers of muslims. The muslims who do access these sources, if they are at all literate, know not to take any pundits statements at face value and to carefully observe the motives of any writer that suggests ‘reform’ of anything. I am not worried about anyone who might fall for Rushdie and Manji’s ideas because of ignorance about Islam. There is no excuse for ignorance when one has access to sources of knowledge. With regards to the well known, factual, and serious problems of illiteracy, civil strife, injustice and economic misdistribution that many muslim communities and nations around the world suffer from, Mr. Rushdie and Miss Manji can not be considered serious or honest enough to be worthy of partaking in a discussion of those issues; because their motives and interests would be considered antagonistic to the interests of Muslims. Those problems of illiteracy, civil strife, injustice and economic misdistribution don't affect all Muslims and they don’t affect only Muslims. These problems are human problems which humanity has to constantly keep fighting. These problems are a component of the human condition because their causes are rooted in the nature of man. As such these problems are NOT going to go away regardless of what religion, if any, people express. These problems are not caused by the tenets of Islam; in fact there is strong argument and reason to believe the tenets of Islam hold the solutions to these problems. The VAST MAJORITY of people on earth are affected by these problems. Look at Africa and south America... central Asia and south Asia, south east Asia. Even in north America and western Europe large numbers, tens of millions of people of various religious persuasion; counted among minorities (non white); live with the problems of poverty, illiteracy, injustice and economic exploitation. Observe the plight of Hispanic emigrants in the US and that of African Americans; and events like the recent fires in Paris. The fact is the vast majority of humanity is suffering from poverty, illiteracy, civil strife, injustice and economic oppression. And until the true causes and true victims of these ills are correctly identified there will be no viable and sustainable solutions to them.

OK, let’s then over look the semantics and the personalities. We’ll just talk of the issues. The issue are as I’ve understood them to be: 1. Groups that claim to represent muslims and are covered extensively by the media as ‘representatives’. 2. approaching them or countering their ideas, when they are objectionable 3. what the impact of these groups is on the lives of muslim. This is a huge problem. These people are all over the place. I personally FLEE from them all on sight. I think those of them that are truly a danger to Muslims should be countered at all levels. I don’t think Manji, Rushdie and their type are a spiritual danger, a danger to the religion of the muslim. This is because they do not address a muslim audience. They mostly address non-muslims and that is their audience. I think they are a danger to the political, social, and physical well-being of the muslims in that they misguide non-muslims about islam and encourage non-muslims to fear and become hostile toward muslims; and that is a real problem.

NGONGE, thanks your reply. You said, "What you propose in your thread here is that one should not start sentences with the words “ the trouble with Islam...â€! That, my dear brother, whilst caring and would keep the peace does us no favours at all. Do not be taken in by the familiar wave of indignation, saaxib." What I propose is that people should not say "the trouble with Islam is" unless they actually have a problem with Islam . As a reader I want writers to mean what they say! There is no reason for me to assume they don't. Just advising them to say what they mean. But I understand your point and it’s well made. Still, I don’t think it takes away from the important position of what words people use and how issues are stated.

Seven, You said, "With all due respect brother QL, the subject is not the woman, her morals or lack of. It’s the issue she raised. Are we willing to accept that we are disorganized? We are hypocrites who support the govt and regimes that punter to the whims of the west? The ones so ever ready to dissect people of the same faith based on minor differences? " These issues are issues raised by people better qualified and with more right to discuss them then she. So if you want us to discuss those issues, then bring up the issues and don't make Manji out to be the source or initiator the discussion. Manji’s point in mentioning these issues, as NGONGE so nicely pointed out, is not to actually discuss the issues in an attempt to resolve them, but to merely use them as a cover for her treacherous plot to mislead people away from the mercy of God.

I want to just make a quick point about the terms that we use and how we say things. First, let me just thank all of you that contribute to this Islam section of this forum. There is a great amount of information and healthy discussion here. I don’t really contribute but I am sure I am one of the many that benefit from the contributions all of you make. To make these discussions even more productive, more attention should be paid to semantics. I am sure all of you intend for your readers to understand exactly what you mean to say and more careful attention to the words that are used and how points are stated can help in achieving that. Sometimes terms statements like “the problem with Islam is†are used; then you get 50 posts pointing out “there is no problem with Islam†and before you know it the original point of the discussion is lost. These types of situation can be avoided by just using the right words. So, in a criticism of some Muslims, don’t say “the problem with Islam isâ€, say “the problem with those particular Muslims isâ€. Again, my thanks to all the contributors.

NGONGE, you said “Those that read the article were probably shocked, disgusted and puzzled as to the reasons that led me to post such an amazing piece of trash on this site! From the few replies that I read, I was astonished to find most people dismissing the author and her sexual orientation instead of tackling the good (yes good) points she raised in that article!†I ask you this, why should you expect someone to over look the grave wrongs that Miss Manji commits to focus on miner statements she makes, statements I should point out that don’t even need to be made because they are so basic, obvious, and excepted. The fact is Miss Manji cannot be taken seriously to speak on behave of Muslims or about Islam because she does not keep the most fundamental of Islamic conduct. There is no reason to even debate her and people such as her. They are tools for the patrons of Satan.

I don't take my medical advice from my mechanic. Mr. Rushdie should stop calling himself a muslim if he hates islam so much. The door to apostate is wide open. But I guess he can sell more books and make more money by doing what he’s been doing. People like Rushie and Irshad Manji aren’t targeting a muslim audience with their message (thank God), and they only pretend to speak for a Muslim constituency. Islam if found in the Quran and the Sunna; Rushie and Irshad Manji don’t read the Quran and the Sunna, so how can they be expected to write about islam? These people just want to sell books, their words and idea’s are shallow, naïve, and worthless. Rushie and Irshad Manji's advice for how muslims should practice Islam is like my advice on how Mormons should conduct a church service; absolutely worthless.

Well, it's nice to think that it's all true. But I hope we get there.

NEW ORLEANS—Throughout the Gulf Coast, Caucasian suburbanites attempting to gather food and drink in the shattered wreckage of shopping districts have reported seeing African­Americans "looting snacks and beer from damaged businesses." "I was in the abandoned Wal-Mart gathering an air mattress so I could float out the potato chips, beef jerky, and Budweiser I'd managed to find," said white survivor Lars Wrightson, who had carefully selected foodstuffs whose salt and alcohol content provide protection against contamination. "Then I look up, and I see a whole family of [African-Americans] going straight for the booze. Hell, you could see they had already looted a fortune in diapers." Radio stations still in operation are advising store owners and white people in the affected areas to locate firearms in sporting-goods stores in order to protect themselves against marauding blacks looting gun shops. Also in the news today, former first lady Barbara Bush said the camps for the NEW ORLEANS refugees are "good enough for the Poor". Commenting on the facilities that have been set up for the evacuees -- cots crammed side-by-side in a huge stadium where the lights never go out and the sound of sobbing children never completely ceases -- former First Lady Barbara Bush concluded that the poor people of New Orleans had lucked out. "Everyone is so overwhelmed by the hospitality. And so many of the people in the arena here, you know, were underprivileged anyway, so this, this is working very well for them," Mrs. Bush told American Public Media's "Marketplace" program, before returning to her multi-million dollar Houston home. On the tape of the interview, Mrs. Bush chuckles audibly as she observes just how great things are going for families that are separated from loved ones, people who have been forced to abandon their homes and the only community where they have ever lived, and parents who are explaining to children that their pets, their toys and in some cases their friends may be lost forever. The former first lady was discussing with officials the idea that evacuees without bread could eat cake.

In the last week those of us in the US have seen the price of gas rise to unprecedented heights. Is this an indication the world is running out of oil? If so, what will that mean for our modern life style? Will it this lifestyle be sustainable? Until this year ‘peak oil’ and ‘end of oil’ were terms used by those on the fringe of public discourse, but now you see corporations like Chevron (http://willyoujoinus.com/) and BP (now Beyond Petroleum) discussing it in public and even making commercials encouraging the public to “do their partâ€. With out cheap oil, is there hope for undeveloped counties like Somali to ever industrialize?

real nice.

I don’t think of myself as ...a ‘scaredycat’, but statements like “[invite only] smart, outwardly-thinking and progressive individuals only†and “meetings behind closed doors†remind me of that movie “The Last Supperâ€..... those members of SOL who don’t share the same political views as the organizers of these meetups should probably think twice before coming to them... unless they don’t mind ending up as fertilizer for some “progressive†nutcase's tomato garden.

You have to distinguish between ethnic group and what STATE one has legal citizenship from. For example to be called African-American means you are of African decent and have United States citizenship. So there is no such a thing as a “Anglo-Somali†or “Somali-Arab†since there is no Somali State or a State called "Arab".

What’s with the secrecy?

Oooh so beautiful!

hey Tertiary Adjunct of Unimatrix Zero One, do you play DDR ... shuuuuuuuush, don't tell anyone but am adicted to it! Xu, the radio stations are awsome... they're true to the type of crap on real American talk radio, just listen to C-SPAN’s Washington Journal, the things people say, I don't whether to laugh or .......

Pucca, you can't hate on it. It’s just beautiful. I would love to move there once I get sick of civilization.

....am really getting board with shooters and SocomII is no different. Fact is there only so many ways to shot a guy and playing. but the voice rec. is really fun to play, I think the single player is a bit too realistic to be much fun.

With all these wonderful people its hard to choose who to leave behind... I would have us pick lots

Take this test to see how ghetto you are. I think it’s really accurate, even though it geared to measure how ghettoness in an African American, I think it does a good job of measuring general ghettoness with questions such as: 6. Use a hanger as a TV antenna? 20. Been beaten with an hanger? 43. Eat Kool-Aid out of the package? 17. Had a stuffed animal or carpeting in your vehicle? And of course the international test of gettoness 66. Ate cereal out of a cup? Ok, here it is: The following is a questionnaire to determine the quality of ghetto that you possess. For every question you answer with a YES, give yourself two (2) points. At the end of the questionnaire, add you score and find out what category of ghetto are you. Send this quiz to everybody you Do you now/Have you ever: 1. Reside in government housing (projects)? 2. Use a jelly jar as a drinking glass? 3. Have reusable grease on your stove in a tin can? 4. Living room furniture covered in plastic? 5. Use duct tape to hold the batteries in place on the remote control? 6. Use a hanger as a TV antenna? 7. Use the burners on the stove as heat? 8. Refer to the refrigerator! r as an icebox? 9. Wore hair rollers in a public place? 10. Had a nickname such as "Boo Boo", "Pooh", "Stank", "June bug"? 11. Dropped food and kissed it up to God? 12. Refer to the wind as "the hawk"? 13. Used the following terms: what-chu-ma-call-it, thing-a-ma-jig, what's-her-face, and what's-her-name? 14. Wear colored contacts? 15. Eat cough drops for the Hell of it? 16. Eat chitterlings? 17. Had a stuffed animal or carpeting in your vehicle? 18. Played Punchinella, Red Light Green Light, or Mother May I? 19. Played Hide & Go Freak? 20. Been beaten with an hanger? 21. Used a milk crate as a basketball goal? 22. Drive around with your music blasting to draw attention? 23. Know the dance to "Tootsie Roll" or "The Butt"? 24. Used food stamps? 25. Know the lyrics to "Doo Doo Brown"? 26. Have a name ends ! in the suffix -isha, -qua, or -tra? 27. Use dishwashing liquid as bubble bath? 28. Had a pool party using the water from the fire hydrant? 29. Wore Rugged Outback or XJ 900 shoes? 30. Pronounce ambulance as "ambalamps"? 31. Pronounce library as "lieberry"? 32. Pronounce street as "skreet"? 33. Pronounce wait a minute as "wayment"? 34. Pronounce that sure is as "showliz"? 35. Refer to the police as "Five-O", "Po-Po", or "One-Time"? 36. Use pots to control roof leaks? 37. Clean your ears with bobby pins or ink pen caps? 38. Called your parents by their first names? 39. Add -ed or -t to words already in past tense (tooked, light-skinneded, kilt)? 40. Pronounce specific as "pacific"? 41. Eat Moon Pies, Sugarbabies, Chick-O-Stix, or Now 'N' Later? 42. Drink malt liquor 43. Eat Kool-Aid out of the package? 44. Drove a car with bullet holes in it? 45. Sing in the window fan? 46. Had to pick out the switch for your own whipping? 47. Played Throw Up Tackle? 48. Set the alarm on your pager so when it went off, everybody would think you got a page? 49. Chew ice? 50. Wrap presents in newspaper? 51. Wore a shower cap and house shoes to the grocery store? 52. Record over previously recorded cassette tapes? 53. Gotten a whipping from your friend's parents? 54. Had words or shapes cut in your hair? 55. Threw old sneakers on the power lines? 56. Had an Easter outfit? 57. Said "Talk to the hand". 58. Get smart with figures of authority (school principal, police, parents) when you know you're wrong? 59. Bought clothes for a party and returned them the next day? 60. Have a name that begins with the prefix Ta'-, Sha', or La'? 61. Wore tube socks with dress shoes? 62. Drove around with a donut on your car more than 14 days? 63. Took a picture in front of somebody else's car and fronted like it was yours? 64. Sanitized a dropped pacifier by sucking on it? 65. Used the word 'nem in reference to a group of people? 66. Ate cereal out of a cup? 67. Used paper as a dustpan? 68. Ran a race in the street barefooted? 69. Have a candy lady in your neighborhood? 70. Refer to Now 'N' Later as "Nighladers"? 71. Used Tussy? 72. Dialed *69 and asked "Did you just call here"? 73. Used "z" at the end of words (wayz, dayz)? 74. Have or know anybody who has a nickname of one word said twice (Ray-Ray, Nee-Nee)? 75. Went outside in your night clothes every time the fire truck came through your neighborhood? *0-20 points - You live in the suburbs and have never made a trip to the ghetto *22-60 points - You live in the suburbs but previously lived in the ghetto> *62-100 points - You live in the ghetto but tried to be proper *102 + points - You are GHETTO FABULOUS I scored in the *22-60 points - You live in the suburbs but previously lived in the ghetto>

Hey Nur, you said to be continued, am still waiting dude....

Fidel, whats the beef? SomericaN, get your head our of the gutter. I feel sorry for him not being able to feed his family.... Obviously this man did not plan or think.

Originally posted by -Conspiracy-: The Somali government, as a part of its plan to boost its secutiry and streamline its immigration process ROFL... that should be in the funny news of the day post! Somali government? What somali government?

Making sleep exciting again! -------------------- Adamantium Rage