I watched him score that goal, it was not as impressive as some here would have us believe. At the same time, no one flopped during the game as much as he did. He looks to be out of shape and he does not have high endurance. He needs to hit the gym....and he looks small in person.( he has a very dirty look)........other than that, NINA is right, he doesn't have what it takes to make to the Canadian National Team.... PS: GHEELE T, just becuz we dont have the resources to invest in the top scouts and management needed to deliver doesn't mean that the American national team is more talented, they just bark louder than the Canadians.

^goodluck convincing a lander that his idol is not so idol like@the other poster. Your leaders are traitors, this much is a public knowledge. Your leaders are lucky to be alive, for Siad Barre spared their life by sending them to exile, which is the second biggest error Barre ever committed, the ethio war being the first. Aabo Siad's good deed caused us a country, hundreds of thousands of innocent lives if not in the millions and never ending sectarian violence but sure, we are suppose to acknowledge and maybe go far as an entertaining your charade of a democracy when you are employing the very people who made Somalia what it is today, divided and terrorist haven. The day you change your leadership is the very same day people of all walks of life will engage your politics, until then, we are just biting our time.

Faroole is a step up from his predecessor aka the former gas attendant aka calool weyne, ,which means Puntland is heading the right direction but lets discuss Riyaale and the soon to be President aka Aabe Secessionist.......Why are LANDERS dismissive of discussing the records of their leaders? Lately, every article you read from that hellhole is about how they held a "peaceful election", of-course you held a peaceful election but on whose expense? You claim to be beacon of hope for that part of the country, so yes, you are suppose to hold all of your public events in a peaceful way, nothing less is acceptable but seriously, this isn't something to be proud of when you have high inflation and over 50% unemployment, when you can not provide decent living standards and healthcare for the ordinary people of the northwest, instead, you are occupied with comparing yourself with part of the country that has been devastated by endless violence that your folks, yes, those leaders brought to the south. You were so grief stricken that you decided to play spoiler and in doing so, you manipulated coach-roaches into taking up arms and the rest is history. So, yes, you better hold peaceful elections, after all, its at the expense of southern Somalia, so you better hold it and you better make sure you keep up appearances, after all, that what your leaders are good at. (FAKE IT UNTIL YOU DROP) DISCLAIMER: I love everyone, especially folks from that part of the country. At the same time, my grievances are not with the ordinary landers but their less than despicable leaders, who manipulate the masses into thinking that they are the answer to their problems while causing havoc in other parts of the country.

lol@oodweyne, as always, you are not prepared nor will you prepared to engage the subject. Its true that I am dismissive of the silanyo supporters but not as much as I am dismissive of the man's critics for they are a bunch of demented, out of touch fools, who refuse to engage in real issues. I dont buy the hero argument, the aabo siyad ayuu ka fiican yahay argument, oo asaga ayaa noo roon becuz he is one of us, nor do I buy the argument that the man's age has caught up to him and he has nothing to offer but be content in in his position as a ceremonial figure who will be handicapped by the previous administration's long list of policy failures to do much less deliver tangible results, namely changing the system of the old boys club in so called 'villa morgan" long enough to bring change to the people of the northwest. I just dont buy it oodweyne

Ahmed Muhamud Silanyo a.k.a Al-Seytuni is a great depression baby. He was born in remote and far removed area in Burco, northwest Somalia while the world's economy was in great turmoil, which explains his resilience in dealing with adversaries, for there are many to choose. Silanyo, at a mature age entered high school and subsequently college, when he was accepted as a 'mature' student. Much of the hype surrounding the man comes from the fact that he is "educated" and granted thats the case, he is also calculating and master manipulator. Among other things, his admirers call him, "the single greatest living stateman in all of SOMALIA's territories", including but not limited to proponents of secession. Some go as far as calling him a 'seasoned politician', befitting of this title, he should have his home tuulo named after him, in which case he will be an immortal soul long after his burial, celebrated by the likes of north. As far as critics of Silanyo are concerned, they have failed in addressing real issues in real time. Instead of leading discussion of the man's record, they have discussed and engaged in petty insults about his age and his victim role as the "mugged one". Discussion about the man's record is not at the forefront, which it should be because thats how you win arguments not engaging in trivial things. No one engaged his supporters about the man's character, his loyalty and lack of for the Barre Regime during his time abroad. His organization's role in arming militia in order topple the Barre Regime. The ambiguity surrounding the question of secession, this should be an interest to both the Oadweyne's and Dukeys of this forum. Furthermore, critics and observers alike should be engaged vigorously in calling for Silanyo's whereabout and his activities in the period from november of 1990 to March of 1991, where was he and what was he doing? What was his motivation for creating the SNM?( I dont want to hear anyone taking the victim role with this question) Is he a trusted man or devious soul? (this should be especially interesting to Ngonge) You decide for yourself but one thing to keep in mind is that the first order of business of this man's administration should not be about promising open transparency with the west in topping terrorism and piracy, instead it should be about feeding his pple, creating jobs for the youth of the northwest enclave and more importantly improving the healthcare of the population and not just topping Islamists who he may have had a hand in creating. JUST LIKE HIS BELOVED SNM PUT GUNS IN THE HANDS OF AIDEED AND LIKES, THIS MAN MIGHT HAVE ENCOURAGED AND CONTINUES to ENGAGE THE GODANEs OF TODAY.... GOD BLESS MR SILANYO AKA AL-SEYTUNI, MAY YOUR FALL BE AS SUCCESSFUL AS YOUR RISE TO FAME IN THE SMALL ENCLAVE AND MAY YOU ROD IN HELL FROM WITHIN.... ....filed by LayZie G

^Bob, I asked you a question on another thread, bal orod oo general forumka aad and su'aasheyda ii jawaab. PS: lol@catholic men, this is news to me bob but I'm glad you keeping tabs on those fellaz. I just loved the vanity fair cover and I Thought I share it with you soccer enthusiasts. Yankee sports for me

Seeker, its easier said than done. Bob, stick to football brother. Your prediction is a little premature.

Brother Nur, I strongly advise you to go back on page 2 of this thread and re-read what I wrote. When it comes to the separation of state and religion, I answered it in two folds. On the one hand, I expressed my personal opinion of the subject, which is why I told you that I believed strongly that state and religion should be separated. On the other hand, I expressed to you the need to have compromise. I'm not looking some sort of constitution that explicitly states that we need to preserve the right of individuals over religion and for the state not to profess its preference of Islam nor advocate for plural state. I believe the compromise that the government should put on the table is one which they have already voted on, which is to recognize Islam as a state religion. At the same time I believe that its in the best of interest of all parties involved to recognize some version of Sharia Law and allow it to become one of the sources of legislation of the country and for local governments to be given local autonomy to choose the form of legislation that their tuulo should adopt. Ideally, what I want is different from what I'm advocating that the government officials should adopt. By bringing secularism into the discussion, you are in fact looking a way to get out and not be held accountable for what you support. I told you, you can not equate secularism with Islam, a religion over a concept. I'm not here telling you that we should put culture and language over everything, as quebec constitution dictates. I'm looking for a compromise. You want to legislate morality, which is what this topic was all about and I want the bloodshed of civilians to stop gushing on the streets of hamar. You want to blame melez for all your problems(along with the United States), I want your boys exterminated for what they have done to civilians and what they continue to do so. As for the picture of the little girl, by now you should know better than to start pointing fingers. Unlike you, I blamed both sides and when calls came from independence sources blaming one side for the destruction of civilians, its something worth looking into but you can't ask me to refrain from making outlandish charges only for you to turn around and do the same thing. You just blamed AU forces for this girl's injury and absolved your homeboys from any criminal wrong doing? (atleast be consistent ya nur) Remember at the beginning of this discussion I said I believed in you to be objective but only if you wanted to be? So what happened? Dont leave me hanging ya nuur... PS: Isn't it a good idea to establish security before you worry about gay soldiers that the UN may or may not send? How did we get to UN sending soldiers? This is why I'm laughing at your answers and line of questioning because of the absurdity thats at the centre of it.

a fact that the whole world knows about it but too SCARED to say it. What is this so called 'fact that everyone knows but can not discuss it in public'? Care to elaborate? Marka Kale, Helen thomas is very old and probably senile, there is no denying that. Her time has come and all good things must come to an end, even helen's career. For helen, she knew her outburst was inappropriate for someone in her position, a very distinguished journalist, writer, speaker who has thousands of followers. We should hold her in the same standard as we hold public officials and acclaimed journalists. Helen knows what she said was inconsistent and out of character and did not fit the general narrative of the middle east conflict. For this reason, the emotionally charged response was not only spontaneous but inappropriate. Above all, it does not make it 'a fact' when you dont have evidence in your side. But what is worse is that the white house and Obama threw her under the bus while reserving their condemnation for Israeli aggression privately.

@formula one and the feeling is mutual ya nur. Marka kale, I'm glad you brought up the question about the 'alternative lifestyle" as I can not call it anything else, waayo, I believe that a union should exist between a man and a woman, not woman and woman or man and man, therefore I will give you the long and short answer. The short answer is the case will not reach the high court because such voting on the local level will be considered unconstitutional. Waayo: The long answer to your first question will be as follows: The composition of the court will not just be limited to the appointment of career lawyers/judges with liberal views, instead it will be diversified and have Islamic Jurists appointed alongside. In turn, it will assure the Umma that a fair judgement is reached on cases that fall under the jurisdiction of the court. On the one hand, it will not fall under the jurisdiction of the high court as its a local issue and will not be problematic. On the other hand, we have the Qur'an on our-side, which forbids alternative lifestyle choices. In the Quran, it explicitly stated that relationship between men and women can only exist in marriage, therefore forbidding promiscuity, homosexuality, etc, etc In addition, we will make sure that the Somali constitution is consistent with the basic Islamic beliefs and concepts, making it illegal for such voting to take place on the local level and if it does reach the high court(through a loophole, in a civil or criminal manner), our court will not decide in favour of our local governments(tuulos) defining what marriage is, instead it will set precedent in such a way that the text will be explicit in detailing how a marriage is defined, which will be consistent with how the qur'an defines a marriage not the individual. ....and I cant help but laugh@the rest of your questions but answer me this one question: Who should take responsibility for firing the mortar shells that injured that little angel on the picture who is struggling with her breathing and have to be fed through a tube? WHo should I blame for the death of her family members and the thousands others that face the same predicament and the hundreds that already died from mortar injury? who? You tell me? give me names PS: I have no desire to seek public office now or in the future, especially in Somalia. The private sector suits me just fine. (one family member is enough)

If my homeboys Playmaker and Jay were here they will tell both fans, celtics and lakers to hold off the early celebrations as both teams have underperformed in this finals series. They will say both teams have flaws, so much so that its too early to pick a winner and for those that are wagering on either team are committing great error. For example, if you are a Celtic fan, you have a long way to go before you can clearly favour that sorry of an excuse team over the more despised lakers(and god only ones I detest Kobe). You can not be a basketball fan and favorably dismiss one or the other team this early for the following reasons: Celtics strength should be in the front court and they are not performing close to anything that has been predicted. Their big men are asleep and if they have a chance in this series, atleast KG or Wallace should get up from their induced coma long enough to grab some decent boards. They need to protect the paint and grab some boards or they will HAVE NO CHANCE. As for the Lakers fan, you should be ashamed of yourself for thinking that somehow you can overcome the celtics men, regardless of what you hear from suuqa ceelgaab about age and injury. You have to remember that if you are a laker fan, you can never dismiss KG, WALLACE, PIERCE, ALLEN or even RONDO(stretching it a little) at any point in this series because anyone of those 5 guys can take over the game and put up big numbers. If celtics dont protect their board they will kill you in the outside through transition and thats double deadly in my book. If you are a laker fan you want old timer fisher to be consistant, you want that lazy bynum on his heels and you want some sort of performance from Artest. Artest was slowed down on game 2 and you saw the difference it made and did not put up a good defensive game and offense was never his forte nor do I respect his offensive game enough to acknowledge his half decent performance from game 1.(let us leave it at that) With that said, celtic fans you cant except to not show up for the entire 48mins and win a series, much less a series against the Lakers with a determined Kobe, it wont happen. (this time you got lucky or else Kobe will have taken over in the 3rd as he did and he nearly did it) It was terrible watching the celtics lastnight and that miserable performance they put up on the 6 minute mark of the 2nd quarter, it was disgusting to watch. (You had kobe on foul trouble and you still managed to lose a 12 digit lead) In my opinion, if the celtics big men showed up and extended on their lead on 2nd quarter of game 2, we would have had a different final score on the boards.(this was all DOC's mistake for not utilizing his players) Its very simple, be consistent and atleast have one decent game out of either KG or Wallace and you might just win this final. PS: didnt know this was a basketball thread

World CUP FEVER: son muy clientes, aye, aye..... PS: This world cup is between GROUP B &G, the two dominant brackets with the exception of greece and North Korea, which are jokes. My money is on Brazil, followed by argentina and portugal.(The latter is only mentioned because of Cristiano's hot body)

Nur, let us start from the bottom and work our way up, shall we? You said the following: You are right yaa ghaaliya, but the order of getting the wealth is different. The Shabab are paying the price now and seeking their permanent wealth in the next life, while their adversaries are getting paid now by their paymasters, seeking this life's glitter and are oblivious of the permanent price they will pay in the next life for their evil. You do not know that nor can you prove any of it, so why don't we agree to disagree about the intent of these men? Marka kale, yaa Nur, you and I are not that far apart on most issues that concern the country and the people, especially my opinion of the current administration led by his honorable Sharif Sheikh Ahmed. It was not long ago(exactly 6 months ago) that I called for his resignation while the rest of his supporters were still deeply intoxicated by his charm and larger than life personality. Don't get me wrong, I adore Sharif, I still feel the same way I felt about him when he was with the ICU. I too believe he is a good muslim as others do, a very compassionate man. However, I feel that he is a very weak leader and not as decisive as I believed him to be. I was wrong to think Sharif can bring us closer to national reconciliation and deliver security. Above all, I'm disappointed with the entire TFG body. I do admit that corruption existed long before Sharif took his seat in Villa Somalia and I believe corruption will continue to exist long after he leaves. With that said, I hold utter contempt for both the enemy as much as I do for Sharif and his administration. At this point in the game, they are equally at fault and the loss of human life is blamed on both camps.(meaning those that are fighting the administration and the administration of Sharif) If asked today, Layzie, which of the two camps would you put your support behind, shabaab or the Brundi let TFG? I will always side with the federal system, in this case, semi-democratically led administration with the support of self-elected parliament, even if I feel its leader is incompetent when it comes to having a strategy in dealing with the opposition, whether it is leading a well planned surge to recapture areas previously held by the government or working tiresly to reach to the other parties involved in other to reach a peace agreement. Well now, you are probably scratching your head and saying, how can you criticize me for supporting shabaab with all their flaws when you are ready to cheer on Brundi let administration of Sharif? Simple, I don't want anarchy, I want my country back(sounding like a teabagger) and if it means getting help from Brundi forces or Ugandas or Nigerians tomorrow or whoever is willing to lend a hand to this deficient administration and if thats what I must do, so be it, I am ready. Matter of fact, I want Melez(now that he is elected for another term) to aid the administration and help them arm themselves again by sending troops to clean up Mogadishu. (when the axmaaro were present, we didnt have suicide bombers roaming the city freely) I want the crimes against civilians stopped, so much so that I'm willing to embrace and accept the help of our african brothers, after all, they are signing up for a job that could kill them, so why should I object? Why do you object to the presence of Brundis but not afghans and the pakis with their foul smell blowing themselves up, taking 10, 20, 30 of our own at a time? As for the debate over Islam and Secularism, my personal view on this is that religion should be separate from the state. At the same time, I believe that in the spirit of compromise, we could adopt some form of Islamic Law in order to stand as a legal authority, granted that the federal government will have the final authority. I believe that its the faith of the provinces to decide whether or not they should produce Islamic forum of governance and its respective governors should sign off on it, granted that lower house system of parliament in each province will decide the faith of such matters and should not be a federal jurisdiction, unless otherwise required to intervene in capital cases.. For this reason, its agreeable by some that compromise on this issue is something that can further be worked on once security is established. As far as your question about which is better, "secularism or Islam" is inconceivable, waayo, Islam is a religion and it can in no way be compared to a concept such as Secularism. I'm baffled by the uncertainty in your query yaa Nur. ...and as far as your analogy about the warsame's go, when you said Let us say, you are a big family, and you had family feud, you are on one side of the fight and you won the fight, the other side ran away and brought in the Warsames next door to be on their side, together they vow to make you a slave and they failed repeatedly after trying everything they know. Will you then negotiate with them while the Warsames who are there for their protection only, are still in your house? Surrah 4, verse 45 says it best: And Allah is most knowing of your enemies; and sufficient is Allah as an ally, and sufficient is Allah as a helper. Leave Allah to the so called 'enemy' and put your trust in Allah. Allah will punish the evil doers and reward the faithfuls, including the so called "slaves" that you are jittery about. In short, my response is that I would call for both the neighbours and the Warsames in one venue and give each party an opportunity to air his/her grievances. Either that or watch over your shoulder for some time to come, which is not wise choice, atleast its not a choice I will make. As for the guns and the refusal to put the arms down and agree to a cease fire in order to spare God's subjects is both Un-Islamic and abhorrent. When the shabaabs have maimed, killed innocent bystanders, robbed women and children of their dignity, left them homeless and with ailing children to look after, you have left nothing for these civilians, not one shred of dignity and if you dont think thats worth a cease fire then you and I are further apart than I can care to admit and for that, I was wrong about you or was I? I urge you brother Nur to reevaluate your position. Waa uun talo ya Nur. As for the wire news, you and I probably read the same news wire, the difference is you do not consider the evidence and you are driven by emotion, which is understandable. Religion wars have been fought time in and time out. They were always provoked by one event or another. Some wars were fierce, some ended in bloody massacres but the end did not justify the means. In short, a war waged by few anarchists in the name of religion always invokes religion sentiments, PR about holly war is not only persuasive but effective than a war waged in the name of democracy, nationalism etc, which is why in part your homeboys have been successful, economically speaking. There are still patrons out there who are willing to see this through to the bloody end and they dont care how much money they lose. Today we know that there is nothing more patriotic to Muslims than a holly war, its a testament to the tink tank Jihadi groups and their PR driven campaigns, which is why contempt is felt by some Muslims all over the globe over the materials that are written, drawn about the Prophet (PBUH). A cartoonist can cash in on the work of the tink tank jihadi groups and we wake up and wonder how long we were in an induced coma? In summary, you are saying, "we will not put our arms down and agree to a cease-fire" because the so called "ugandan mercenaries" will kill us. You are saying" we will not stop throwing rockets from populated areas because we are justified in our PR propaganda". Hadda meesha maxaa kale oo yaalo aan aniga ka hadlo majirto aan umalaeynaa? You dont want peace, dal and dawladnimo because you dont want cease fire on the basis that the violence against civilians is justified because shabaabs want to shed more innocent blood in the name of religion and defense, soo adiga iyo yahuuda have more in common because they too believe in raiding vessels on international waters in the name of defense. Are you then not saying I was right all along and you are living up to your campaign promise of total destruction? (or atleast your boys are?) All in all, I'm willing to look at this from an objective point of view if you are willing and able to do the same, waayo arms ma dhigeyno is not an answer nor is quoting verses to justify the bloodshed. Malagaa yeelin ya Nur. Inta kalena, just because you dont agree with certain news outlets who post opinion pieces, regardless of the ownership of the content does not mean that they are less reliable than say, Al jazeera or Al Arabiya or any of those middle east media outlets. For example, when the sunday raid of the flotilla occurred, the Al Jazeera correspondents that were inside the raided vessel reported to have not seen any weapons on board, nor did they acknowledge the premeditated actions of the hooligans inside the vessel waiting for the commandos on board the flotilla on sunday.(before you start accusing me of siding with the state of Israel, I will say what I said before, I think the raid was illegal and the force was excessive and Israel had no right to raid the aid vessel on international water and take the passengers on board on custody. I say this for the obvious reason, the brutal act occurred on international waters, however much the Israelis cry "defense") To sum up, the correspondents were biased and gave eye witness testimony that was one sided when they should have been held on the same standards as say, any of the journalists and mainstream media you complain about.

^ask the one above you, he was my former macalin.(MR verses aan kor ka aqaanaa)

^ you just described what the catholic theology calls, "indulgence"......

NUR: For once make me a promise that you will not discuss "main stream media", "United States of America", "puppet regime" or anything else but your m**ryaan boys aka Al shabaab long enough to get some answers from you. Lets take outsiders out of the discussion. For once, let us discuss this problem among ourselves and recognize this as a Somali problem. Let us call the shabaab bosses for who they really are, foreigners. My first question to you is, who is controlling the deadly militant organization? Who funds them? According to them, their orders are sent from Afghanistan, therefore they are not carrying Allah's commandments as you suggested earlier. If this is to be true and if someone like Abu Mansuur uu nin afghani uu caabudo, how can you call him a Muslim? Nin nin caabudaayo is worse than a gaal, soo maaha? Lets assume that all news is controlled by your friends from the United States and in fact they are filtering the news and poisioning our minds with filth, what about you? Do you have a satellite phone, which puts you in direct communication with the shabaabs? Unless ofcourse you are getting your news from the very same sources you accuse me of reading? I'm not selective with my news, I read various news wires from wide variety of sources. I do this because I know humans are the ones doing the reporting and naturally human beings are biased, which means I'm naturally a skeptic. For example, if five news wires all say shabaabs were responsible for this weekends death, close to 50 people dead, we have to atleast believe that there is some truth to that, whether shabaabs deny it or not. Truly, if they are carrying Allah's commandments, why do they lose more human life under their watch than the so called 'enemy'? Why do they provoke attacks from populated areas knowing full well the so called 'enemy' would retaliate? Some things are not adding up. If these shabaabs are under the assumption that secular state is evil and Islamic State is the way forward, why don't they put their guns down, agree to a treaty, which will follow up with elections and let us take a referendum vote on the constitution. In short, why can't they make their point clear without the violence and bloodshed? Why do I have to hear another 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 human lives are lost on a daily, weekly basis? Answer me as soon as you can as I'm forgetful and will not have a chance to ask the many more questions that I have for you now about the shabaabs. For now this will do. PS: You are naive if you think your boys are in this war out of the goodness of their heart. Besides wanting power, money is the second most driving force. Everyone wants something, even those that maim and kill in Allah's name, including the veiled ones.

Ngonge,you know what they say? EVERY PARTY HAS TO HAVE A POOPER....and you are our very own resident pooper aka SOL's arab insider, lol lol@siyaasada barta I have to say, most of the folks crying foul and beating on their chest about Israel must face consequence have properly read Davutoglu's sweet poetry on this month's foreign policy issue, talking about how Turkey has a foot in every door, how they have influence in the global stage and how they can make moves, so its no wonder that Dukey would repeat the empty talk, especially when you are discussing two different things, chest bumping while having a warm seat in committees on the international stage and actually taking action against Israeli aggression on the seas. On a side note: Turkey is so tough that after 9+hrs behind close doors, the UNSC did not denounce the aggression nor did they call for international body of investigation nor did Turkey hear the tough words from the United States, so Davutoglu's tough stand and his various posts as a puppet in committees amounted to nothing. As for the fat arabs, on tuesday, the biggest of them all announced how he has called member states (AL) for an emergency meeting in order to draft a letter of condemnation against the zionist regime.(amr Moussa's interview with Al Jazeera) This id*ot came on television and told the AJE reporter that this time it will be different, this time their talk talk will amount to something. THEY NEED TWO FULL DAYS TO TAKE ACTION OR CONDEMN ISRAEL?

^who is the "house negro"? Ma adiga mase Obama? Israeli can not and will not dance their way out of this bloodshed. For once, pictures are blasted everywhere, video feeds of the raid went viral on the internet and above all, Israeli's real masters are revealed. Notice I said masters and not "master" as in Netanyahu? He was sleeping peacefully in his cozy Canadian room when his Defense Minister and his Foreign Minister were collaborating on how best to stop the aid ship from reaching gaza shores before daylight and the solution was to open fire. In their defense, the surveillance videos from the navy does show that some of the so called "activists" were armed and did corner the commandos. In the video, you can see a mob of men lynching a commando while two others throw another commando off deck. This was something Al Jazeera failed to air and so did the Turkish TV as it happened, instead they played the bloody pictures of the injured over and over again. Even so, Israeli should never have went into the vessel with lethal weapon, no matter what. The raid was illegal, they did not deny raiding a vessel on international waters, that itself deserves a minister of two's resignation. There has to be a fall out and someone has to take one for the team. Again, this does not excuse the mob who are seen holding a weapon and beating the commandos with it. It doesn't look anything close to a non-violent protest. Dr. King would roll over his grave if he had seen the mob beating on that soldier but again, the Israelis should never have put themselves in this predicament. The organizers of the free gaza movement lied, their spokes people flat out lied on national television when they said their activists were unarmed and there should be consequences for that too.

It appears that I was wrong and there is a story here. Flotilla is under siege. Israeli commandos are inside the vessel, pointing their guns at the activists. No one can understand the turkish TV reporter or what happened between the time the captain of the flotilla reported to be turning away from the gaza and the time the vessel became under siege. Shots have been fired and still heard inside the vessel. The live stream shots show what appears to be medics attending to the injured and can be seen clearly, their lifejackets have stains of blood. Al Jazeera Arabic and english are running the same shots while turkish TV is showing the live shots with the commandos on board. Again, the Flotilla is under Israeli Siege. Less than an hour ago the reports were that the flotilla was turning back but now a helicopter is hovering over the vessel. Latest update, two are dead and over 30 others injured. According to the reports coming out now, the attack happened on international waters, Israel entered the vessel illegally and started shooting at passengers, reports an eye witness. Update#2: According to Jerusalem Post, the Army radio reports that the passengers in the vessel attempted to "wrestle the guns from the Israeli commandos", those big bad boys who came blazing with their guns inside the vessel and flex their muscle at unarmed passengers, who repeatedly said they were unarmed on atleast two previous radio reports now were reported to be playing wrestle mania with the commandos and that led the soldiers to open fire, which now is being reported at 10 for the death toll. 10 People are reported dead, says spokeswoman for the Free Gaza Movement on AJE, or atleast according to her lawyer in Israel. On other news, the Israeli consulate is under attack by protesters in Turkey. Reports say Turkish leaders have dispatched the Israeli Ambassador to Turkey in order to explain why commandos killed between 2-10 people in cold blood in the early morning hours while cameras were on their faces. (yes, talk should get it done)

No audio....and most of those people in the live shot are wearing lifejackets, prepared for the worse contingency, even a niqabi lady is running around the live shot. Not long ago al Jazeera reported that the flotilla changed course in order to avoid showdown with the Israeli Navy in the dark. Both the Israeli media and the associated press reported that the Israeli Navy made contact with the flotilla and warned them not to cross the blockage and gave them ultimatum: To either follow the navy on a near by port in order to examine the content in the ship and redistribute through the strip by way of following the blockage rules through Israeli Personnel or to face the consequence of not complying with the orders of the navy. When I read about them, they were preparing to sail but this showdown will not amount to nothing, which is why the mainstream media is uninterested, it doesnt generate enough hype for them to be worthy of the 24/7 cable news screens because the end result is known. These organizers talk smack and in the end they will comply with orders and return home and there will be no story to report.

Nur, you are in fact saying a group of M**ryaans, funded by foreign entities are "ordained by god" and are carrying the wishes of God by killing and maiming God's subjects? Did I leave anything else out based on the answers you provided abovE? You honestly believe Abu fake and Abu dooli attended Islamic school, long enough inay quraanka kasoo baxeen? Do you really believe these criminals, who hunt family members for not producing their 10 yr old son in order to fight 'jihad" through intimidation are ordained by God? These criminals drug children, rob children out of their innocence, subject them to violence and death and you call them "subjects of god", who are carrying god's commandments? Do you really believe what you write or you are just looking to get a rise out of people?

What are you on about? I haven't mocked any ET. Are you sure? I think you deserve to revisit your previous post and give yourself another try, won't you? What does it mean for you to mock something? When you make the almighty as unreal and an impossible thing, something that believers imagine, you are in fact mocking, thats a fact. When you call allah Nur's imagined friend, you are in fact insinuating that Allah is not real and those that believe Allah are crazies. Thats how I interpreted your post and quite frankly, I thought it was beneath you and unbecoming of you. You are right in that Nur inserted Allah into the discussion about conspiracy theories, which I asked him to directly speak of the issue and to share his position on the subject and I warned you not to fall for the bait, which is why I quoted John Donne but it doesn't mean that you have the right to mock Allah. To believe in Allah means recognizing good over evil, believing in judgement day, knowing that this life is not promised. Believing in Allah means that you are totally submitting to the authority of Allah in this life and the next. I believe that Allah is watching over me, I believe that he listens to my daily prayers and I make no excuse for my beliefs(never have and never will) and its insulting of you to think that I'm somehow 'atoning for my so called sins" over an observation I made on another thread long after I responded to you here. Lastly, I dont think I would have felt complete as a human being and at peace with myself if I did not have faith in Allah. I'm quite surprised about you. This is out of character behavior for you. Which leads me to suspect that you're atoning for your sins in the Holy Trinity thread. I'm strapped for time now so we'll respond to that thread another time. Out of character because I'm a believer and I asked you to be careful of the slippery slop you have entangled yourself in? In case you are wondering, I have never been out of character. I've always been consistent and spoken the truth. Yes, I have been a champion of the little guy but it doesn't mean the little guy can ridicule Allah's existence and get away with it. PS: I think you should retract your earlier statement and go on with the discussion and call it a day.

North, the truth is whenever I say East, you say West, thats just how you are and I've learned to stay clear of people like you who are only here to waste time and do not have nothing of value to add to the discussion. As for not posting in the Islamic Section, the answer is obvious. Nur is no longer considered ' a credible source', with his latest propaganda piece about Al Shabaab and government in the same sentence but I still adore him. As for dukey, I think what is insulting to people's intelligence is expecting a consensus on every single thread, you are in a word insinuating that people should not make personal observations without someone in this forum throwing a fit? Doesn't it get old? When did I call a debate about the qur'an? Or are you just like C^H, you didnt get passed the title? C&H, first take a deep breath. Marka kale, waxa ay dadka qoraan aqri. Read first, ask questions later.

^lol, Bob, thats why its best to lurk and not participate if you can not add more to this subject. Bob, what's wrong with asking questions? Do you think my probing for answers that have long been in contention will somehow diminish Islam in your eyes? C'mon, what are you afraid of? North,so the roman catholic church is not the single largest christian domination? When was the roman catholic church established ya North? And are you saying they are not a christian domination? On the subject of christianity, its expected that I would draw example from the catholic church as thats the church I'm most familiar with. Do you know the position ordothox christianity holds in regards to the holy trinity? Until you do, may I suggest you familiarize yourself with the examples you use. Getting back to the topic, if the answer is easy, please do point out the obvious answer to me because I seem to have difficulty grasping these different versions of translations when it comes to the holy trinity. Do not refer me to a tafsiir, bring the verses in question here and explain to me in your own words how you interpret that and then compare it to the established translations from various editions of the Kitaab. My problem is not with the authenticity of the quran but its post-translation version, the meaning appears distorted at times and very difficult to understand from its authentic saying. For example, one translation with this very same chapter I shared says of the verse that on judgement day, Jesus and mary will be judged based on the belief that they represented themselves as divine beings and that in fact, they did not represent themselves as mary and jesus, as son of Mary. Another one says that because of its representation of the many gods, do not believe for you will stray from that path, something to that like...again, this is just past reading I have done on this subject.. If you can do a better job in translating ya north, you are welcome to do so, if not, please do not waste your time or mine. With that said, I should have spend more time learning Arabic instead of just memorizing the qur'an for the sake of memorization as a child.

^no little lady. I'm questioning the arabic translation and how the question of trinity is interpreted in different versions of the Kitaab.