I liked the poet, Mr. Maki - and i hope it's him. I liked the pictures, the videos and their contents. We're in such an unfortunate stage where all we have is but a 'once upon a time'. My sincere humble thanks to you all. Jibreel.

Enjoy Dr. Parenti.

Few movies and documentaries produced by brave journalists and film makers, hardly stands out as an acceptable comparison- unless voluntary amnesia in regards to history is an acceptable doctrine in regards to this discussion. Hollywood, a predominant institution with in the mass media has been unraveled and ''serious scholarship'' , joined by prominent award winning journalists have published work on the subject i.e for those of you who suffer from intentional ignorance. I do agree that speculation is no substitute for serious scholarship but so are lazy remarks. And while we are in the subject of serious Scholarship, neither has the opposing block quoted nor produced any(prominent scholar) scholarly texts or anything that resembles serious, save for the empty rhetoric with the usual doze of hearsay. Since it is a simple truism that public opinion in democracies is manufactured, the notion of the mass media being used for propaganda is but a fact- but one i would want to see refuted. So enough with the nonsensical attempt but do refute and while at that, document your claims , if you can. I can't believe that i have missed that commentary and i can't believe the nasty attempt made to disregard the only backed up fact in this thread! P.s. The fellow was half right when he mentioned the Hollywood conspiracy. Hollywood is engaged in one of the biggest conspiracy of the century i.e. It is rewriting history. Unfortunately it is the Empire's sole version of history that is being written and hence the rape. Jibreel.

Ngonge, what sort of proof are you seeking? Jibreel.

Somalis and their counterparts else where are suffering - and their plight is a profit to the henchmen in power. Hopefully, some curse will someday befall upon all the henchmen for only then can salvation come to our people. The least we can do is to pray for them; and pray we must. Jibreel.

I don't see a conspiracy theory in here and i fail to understand why the gentlemen in the above discussion(those who refute North's stance) have not given one single source , a mere fact , to support their otherwise irrational notion. Jibreel.

Ameen to all the above Duas. May Allah ta'ala bless the brother's union,inshaAllah. Congratulations. Jibreel.

An interesting article. What's your take on it? Jibreel.

Lol, the thread does indeed amuse me. As for the topic in discussion, it is my believe that every Cali and Maryan knows what led to our demise. Unfortunately we have learnt less of almost everything that our failure should have taught us. Jibreel

Perhaps its about time that people stopped out-threading each other on the topic. Instead of starting a new thread you could have just voiced your concern in the other one. As for the reasons you stated why people shouldn't be banned, some are quite reasonable but there should be a ground when mocking the fundamental principles of Islam. There is nothing that i can think of that can make or force an individual to mock a religion in the basis of freedom of speech, or call it what you may. Mocking creates no environment for a reasonably intellectual debate nor does it create anything of substance. The end of it all is nothing but provoking the majority of the members(Muslims) and that beggs for some accountability. Jibreel.

While it is disgusting to see the suffering and the pain inflicted on our brethren back home, it is equally disgusting to point a finger at one of the factors of the problem and downplaying the ''whole'' InshaAllah time will come when all will be brought to justice. Jibreel.

This is but a futile attempt of a debate if the best of your efforts was the display of skills in your above post. Needless to say more, you ask for proof when infact the proof you so adamantly ask for is right before you(If you just read the article). Thirdly, one who objects must reasonably have a reason as to why. Backing up your tirade inregards to the article and my explanation is a responsibility towards one's stance. Having failed in all of that and yet claiming that you don't have to proof anything is indeed an educated adult's scope of understanding per your definition of it and in that regard, you will forever be waiting for Jibreel. End of discussion. Jibreel.

Good day trollers.Good day Ibti and Juxa

Originally posted by Norfsky: Then wondering why people disagree is called reasoning by an educated adult miya? Indeed it is a positive trait of a discourse to disagree and in disagreeing, many good things may come forth i.e more insight to a matter. Unfortunately in this regard, the Quran, the Sunnah of the prophet peace be upon him and the Scholars are clear about this and this warrants no objection whatsoever(subject matter of this discourse). You did ask questions and Jibreel replied you with answers but instead of being objective about the topic, you displayed traits that are not forthcoming of an educated adult: 1. The topic is about the apostate regime of South Somalia,the TFG and not Jibreel. 2.The topic is not about Al Shabab. 3.Jibreel gave you answers.If you disagree with the answers, challenge them if you can and instead of hiding behind ill banners, reason with the man and prove him wrong if you can (and i dare you) instead of attempting to corner him. 4.Assumptions too are a trait unbecoming of an educated adult.(Jibreel didn't declare his support for a group as you insinuate) 5.The proof you sought from Jibreel is in the article, if you disagree why don't you come with your proof on why you disagree.(In the light of the Quran and the Sunnah) 6.According to you, the TFG is not as the posted article portrays it or as the poster of the article juxtaposes the TFG and the description the article gives regarding the kaafir states and their leaders. Kindly negate it Objectively. As you can see, neither have you done what the educated adult does nor have you behaved yourself in a manner that befits one. So unless you decide to reason objectively like an educated adult, no dice mate. Jibreel won't indulge you since it would be but a waste of time. P.s. To point the truth about the Kaafir regime of the TFG doesn't really mean that one has to be with the other side as you tried to suggest in your above remarks. I hope your last post has been answered to your satisfaction. Jibreel

To Norf; When you decide to reason like an educated adult, perhaps then would Jibreel consider to indulge you. Otherwise it is but a waste of time since your post lacks both reason and tangibility. To Naden; The TFG is but a body of persons and the definition befits them in plural but when refering to it, we do refer to it as one and hence why i singularized them. I do however agree with you on some points but that is not what the discussion was. It was about apostasy and so long as it concerns that, the TFG has qualified inregards to the Quran and the Sunnah of the Prophet,sallalahu caleyhi wasalam. Jibreel.

Che, what do you propose? That Kenya's Somalis should dissociate themselves from the rest of the Muslim community and sit on the fence? How will this route that you are suggesting help them if on one hand they face repression from the authorities and on the other hand they totally isolate themselves from their whole Muslim community? I fail to understand the logic you so present before us. Perhaps your signature sums up what am saying. Jibreel.

According to the article; 1.The Muslim human rights groups of kenya organized the riots. 2.Ali kimathi, the head of Muslim human rights forum helped to organize the riots. 3.Muslim groups in kenya have been complaining about unfair treatments and police targeting. This leading to a later release due to lack of evidence. 4.Muslims unjustly being accused for terrorism. And then the article continues and talks about the detention of Somali MPs and the Kenyan officials blaming the Al shabab group for this incident. I do not know how the Kenyan government came to this conclusion. According to the article these people are rioting due to the injustices they face and the Jamaican sheikh(may Allah hasten his release) is nothing but one of the factors. Having said that, it wasn't Somalis alone that were rioting. All the Muslims who prayed at Nairobi's Jamia mosque demonstrated. The Masjid is not located at Eastleigh. It is located at downtown Nairobi. This has again resulted in raiding the Somalis. In short , what the article says is not something new. It is the same bigotry that we see irresponsible governments do, coupled with the usual Muslim repression. As stated, this was not about Somalis dying for any one. It isn't about a Sheikh. It is about Kenya's oppression of its Muslim citizens. Having said that, the Muslims of Kenya and the Muslim Somali community of Kenya have every right to demand the release of their brother. They also have every right to express their plight in any way that will make their voices heard. Jibreel.

Originally posted by Che -Guevara: How does education of recorded help Palestanians I wonder? Che, what are you insinuating? Jibreel.

A history lesson like all forms of education would have brought about an understanding. It is this realized insight(acquired from the understanding) that would bring about change in this particular human condition. Jibreel.

History has again and again recorded the moral deficits of the Europeans together with their American cousins. They should be the last to question other peoples(s) integrity inregards to their moral ethics. For the racists mentioned in the post, a history lesson is imperative. Jibreel.

Salaam Ibti we are all fine. I mean apart from no fishing, we are fine. How are you yourself? Jibreel.

To Norf. 1. By ruling with man made laws, ones that are legislated in parliament other than the already existing rules of Allah. 2.They obey the mandates of the united nations and other kafir international entities that go by their own legislated laws and rules, rules that have no basis in Islam . 3.True. They rule and judge not with the Quran and the Sunnah that Allah has revealed but again with their own kaafir laws. 4.The example of these is all over the Muslim world. Am surprised that this escaped you. If you want examples, consider the roles of every so called Muslim countries and their direct or indirect involvement with the west and how far they go by obeying them.(in the case of the Somalis,they brought Kaafir troops and allied themselves with Kaafirs and not only do they do that but they took Kaafirs as protectors and to some great extent, they even fight side by side with their kaafir protectors against whatever they deem as a threat) 5.A regime that sold parts of the country's natural resources will no doubt bring about Riba taking financial institutions.(I will try to look at this in relation to somalia,whether this apostate regime takes riba or some forms of it) 6.This has happened in other parts of the Muslim world already,countries that are much developed and peaceful than Somalia. Somalia being a corrupt country run by apostate politicians will no doubt follow the path. You demand that one must be specific and yet you fail to see the apparent and even though you understand and know the TFG and its history, you go far by making excuses for them. Since you already know or think that the excuses you give them are legible, what is the point in pointing out the obvious to you and what is going to stop you from further negating what is again the obvious? What happens in Somalia and the Muslim world in general is no secret. To Naden. An apostate is a person who forsakes his believes and that is to say a person who forsakes his religion. The TFG has exactly done that by breaking and directly going against the strong doctrines of Islam by simply breaking them. In short,those who seek protection other than Allah have no protection and they and from that which they seek the protection from are the same. Example. Sheikh Sharif. 1. He betrayed his covenant with his brothers and even though it was no time for disunity, he betrayed them so as to sell his soul for a seat. 2. He betrayed Islam by seeking protection from Kaafir african states with the backing of Kaafir so called international community whose only regard for the Somalis is none but to further destabilize them by employing every dissolute norm. 3.He betrayed the country and the general populace by selling the country's natural resources to the evil entities that he serves. Naden,the crimes of these apostates are not one or two. The best i can tell you is to launch your own Naden investigation and if and when you analyse your findings, maybe you won't hesitate to point out the hypocrites and above all, the apostates that they are. P.s. You forgot ''Patria o muerte'' to fully complete your phrase. Jibreel

Good day Trollers, hope every one is faring well. Jibreel.

Originally posted by Raamsade: My question to you still stands: are his words accurate reflection of Islam (Quran and Ahadith)? I doubt that a godless being such as yourself cares less for the sheikh's reflections whether accurate or not. A text book case of paranoid delusion sums up your diatribes against all things Islam and Muslims. As for the posted topic, it is indeed sad that Kenya which has millions of Muslims should decide to join the on going crusade against Islam. My condonlences to the Muslim Community and the family of the victims. May Allah Ta'ala accept them with his mercy and forgiveness. Jibreel.

ONLF is but a freedom fighting band of warriors whose only sole criteria is to free themselves from the oppression that they and their people(general somalis) are subjected to by the filthy Tigre regime of Ethiopia. Having said that,how does one label them as ''nabad diid'' or has the term become a coinage that is only associated to people who fight for their sovereignty? In time,perhaps the master and the slave shall be worn out and in time,perhaps the will of the people shall prevail. My condolences to the family of the victims,victory to ONLF and victory to any other oppressed people,any where in the world. Jibreel.