so whats gonna get done about it?

^ i think liberated women are definetly liberated

Hamza is a mad man thats done little favours for people he claims to represent, any how, so can we agree that every one is their own worst enemy

^^ surely u mean wrt the way we've treated ourselves Actually the concept of what makes an capital or an economic hub is quite intersting, dont have much time now, but will write about it soon

^ Duke their position and prosperity is the only thing that can be expected on the back of the bleak despotism of somalia. After all you may take risks to bring in profit, but you keep your money where you have security. However wrt. They have also helped Somali's as places of refuge. I think 'help' is too strong as an intension for the way these people have treated us.

Originally posted by Curling Waterfall: It takes some ingenuity to get there dear. You wouldn't know, its not in your genes. sweet, thats first i've heard it being called ingenuity, xiin, but that axe/claws away

Feyrouz, sweet i've lived in london for longer than i care to remember, though i lve the city, i'm not sure i've eva seen it quite like those pictures show! MAybe you shoudl organise a tour for us

^ old man, so how do you suggest humpty be put back together? in the meantime, maybe we could put out an international tender for new 21st century colonials, powers could apply with their credentials and competense to take power. I mean look at the wonderfull job china has done for tibet, mongolia, i'm sure Somali- would be a great success. Let me know if you think this a more reasonable proposal than the presidents!

^^ yes i know, its funny how scum naturally floats to the top

^ luckily we now keep u in your rightfull place, qaxooti,

Jaylaani walaal, on the contrary its existence is in question, it doesn't take much to draw up a border, what matters how much you are willing to defend its boundaries, this however is dependant on your motives for creating it. Now it surprises me that you find it insulting to be asked to justify believes that you have vehemently and publicly voiced. And i think your wrong when you say there others more qualified than you, since this implies that you need others to justify your believes for you. And i don't think this is true. so what i am interested in? Honestly, I'd like to know what ordinary people that dint have a direct visible gain in the spoils of an ad mistration see as their interests being served, to what extent they are willing to defend it. So in another way what do the border and distinction mean to you? and how you see them protecting your personal interests? lander saaxiib, Yes you are right in that i am asking open ended questions and the reason that it doesnt have a unique answer is that there is no right or wrong answer. A state is effectively a line to distinguish one administration from another, nothing more. and it is exactly this reason that people can in my opinion best justify it using what it means for them and what they expect it will give them, and why they think this is so. These are all questions about motives and incentives since they are what trigger actions. i don't understand what you mean by: 'in practical terms you can also find an equally large if not greater amount of ways the role of the state is undermined in a given situation.' wrt to 'why not' for me the answer is simple, a smaller state is a weaker state, it has access to less resources with which to support its people and by the simple declaration of border they are enforcing a distinction. i.e. this line/feature/ ( fill clause here) makes us different from any one out side it. As things stand, I don't think that any part of Somalia should be expected to play the 'its my turn to be chief' game thats currently happening in the rest of the country, but what is important is an understanding that it will end some day and in the meantime, something needs to be there to preserve what people have in common rather than what is claimed as their differences. Now this is important because when you create a your boundary, there are those who will profit from its existence more than others, you create your elites and vise versa a boundry is created by th elites within it, typically to protect their monopoly. And as far as i an aware there exists no state whose survival is not tightly linked to the that of its economic elites. So the question is then as before, in whose interest? There is as much reason to assume that the creation of a Somali state is there solely as a mechanism to benefit its elite who can then mark out slightly larger territories between themselves . However, ask yourself the question 'what proportion of those in power and with influence were beneficiaries of the Bare regime?' In reality as always those that suffer and need most protection are the marginalised, those at the edges, if 1/2 a million died, chances are they were amongst the poorest in the society the ones that couldn't afford the tickets to get out. Now how does drawring up a new boundary help them? Any other pyscho can attack. A simple test of good faith is reliable generosity with your hard earned cash. Now ask yourself how much does it cost to run an election campaign and how many people can you feed/clothe/ or educate with that money? The payoffs are simple, i win power, i reinforce my position and gain a little extran or I give my money away and i gain little other than goodwill. I don't believe that state is there intrinsically to help its citizens. Its there to mark the territory between one group of elites from another, the role of the citizen of the state is that of the worker ant, cough up your tax, defend it when required, and in return the state will try to respect and enforce others respect what they allow you to claim as your own, be it land, business, money, limb or life. Now my personal opinion is that which you have already heard, we as prospective citizens are stronger united - there is no difference other than that which serves the interests of a few, and any state that we potentially create is better able to fulfil our needs if it is built upon a foundation of the greatest good for the most people. thanks for the replies and i hope i've answered your question, now answer mine

jaylaani , saxiib or anyone else that cares to answer, an opinion was presented, now this i may agree or diagree with, but it is one whose consequences are not limited to any one individual. And to be honest i am interested in how you came to your decision, heck you might convince me. Now by definition the politics is the process of resolving such opinions. because we dont share the same opinions my question is still has even more weight. What i'm asking is basically how do you justify the proposal to yourself? in your opinion how does the creation of a new state help you or any one else. And if you dont think its there for the people, then whose interst is it serving? saaxiib, when you say something 'the people of Somaliland suffer more under Somali administrations .. Half a million people died in Somaliland in the hands of the Somali government that “supposed†to protect them. For what? You make a very good point and the answer to your question of 'for what' is a harsh for nothing. However, this is still a fraction of the number of 'somalis' that have died as a whole, we've all pointlessly lost loved ones, and we cant bring them back. So are you saying that see the role of the state as the guardian and protector? If so who does it protect, how does it identify them since it cant protect anyone and in whose interest does it protect?

^my signature says it all

^^ eva seen the mating habits of bonobo chimps? Our closest genetic relative, talk about dirty ba$tards i tell you ...

Jaylaani, saaxiib, su'aashi maadan jawaabin! The question is: in whose interest? how and why. It's not about xidig iyo calan. I was speeking to a ugandan guy at work today and he told of how some ugandan tribes lokked like and though they speak local languages, they trace their roots to somali peninsula. now i'm not claiming that a new edge needs to be added to the star. Your reasoning so far is about as rigid as 'xarig baan tuurayaa, dhulkuu-gaarana anaa leh'. If your gonna site colonial past, then your making your boundaries around the spot we were raped. And if your gonna tell me that an instrinsic bond exists between people and land, then it's as much yours as mine. so a simple question again, what are the incentives, in whose interest, how and why?

Originally posted by Callypso-i-like-it-so: Like Caano Geel suggests, this may only be a coincidence. who says its just a coincidende, correlation baby! bread is dangerous! and other mens gonads get in the way of your future babies.

passion, sweet your being too kind on us. and boys dont be too ready to start confessing and admiting. remeber your most crutial get out clauses rely on you capacity not to understand the concept!

shehehehehhehehehe teh equal opportunities commition's project which the original research makes intersting reading though it falls short on plans for combatting the situation.

jb, dude i love statitics. when ever i read the word correlation my heart beat jumps. did you know for example that more than 90 percent of violent crimes are committed within 24 hours of eating bread! now that said, i'd rather bigger balls any day.

MMA your orinbal point (pg1) is nicely put. peepz. just one question i'd like your input to - that of incenstives. In re-kindeling The British Protectorate of Somaliland, whose interests are being protected and why?

i dont understand whats wrong with you people. In old days you just needed some that could grow a decent potato or make sure the animals wernt eaten by leapords when they went grazing. now its love this, love that, blah di blah... haldhaa again its simple just marry the boy before you both go mad and he hurts you, or just leave him be! ...

modesty, sweet thats a lot of hostility towards the cartoons. family guy and amrican dad are funny, but the simpsons well its just the simpsons, i diont think you can compare. Did anyone used to watch ren and stimpy?

hey bad man, how are you? i sw this earlier and would love to see the results, for def. the somalis will freeze before the camels.

fringin londoners ey! its the effing van/truck drivers that are a pain. especially if your cyling in the city. effers dont realise how effing big their effing machine is and dont effin look, effing effers. just this morning some effers cut me off. So in custodial local fashion i tell them were to effing stick their over sized effin truck and remind them to look where their effing going. There are two people in the truck an ickle ickle woman and a manly looking man. they say nothing untill we start moving when the trafic lights change and when we say the customary goodbye to each other with this womans very very ickle head poped out of the truck zooming past telling me where and how to stick my effin bike. aaah arent they sweet.

lol daanyeer, entertain us with your harrowing tail of survival against the odds me, moscow airport. fighting with people for a cardboard box to sleep on the cvold marble floors and everything including the toilets costing $10.