MMA, i got to say tho' people like Harun Yahya are beyond me, how are you supposed to take such conclusive remarks seriously from some one that doesn't do and has never done the actual science.

Originally posted by Roobleh: Can identical twins be distinguished from each other using DNA fingerprinting? DNA fingerprinting allows forensic scientists to determine whether the DNA found at a crime scene came from a particular individual. Do you think this has to do with evolution? What kind of crime are you planning on committing .. anyhow that doesn't really ave much to do with evolution.. Identical twice come from the the egg splitting after it has been fertilised, so atthe point of the split, the developing embryos contains the same genetic material .. that doesn't mean that while the embyro keeps on developing changes may not happen - i.e. errors may be introduced in the process for example one twin may be born with a physical defect that the doesn't have .. these are called somatic mutations and are very rare

theological or otherwise -- and honestly there are other brothers and sisters much better versed in theology than me

Roobleh, there are many many levels of discussion. And yes or no is the simplistic answer. Actually the metaphysical debate is pointless, people believe what the believe, so no point going there. On mechanical side, evolution gives an explanation of adaptation under selective pressure. Where the selection is not external to the environment, that's all.

welcome to the nut house, please try NOT to stay neutral, it makes it all the more interesting

It should be the state that apologises not Blair. and a state apology is very different to an individual -- regardless of this individuals prominence .

Bob, walaal my deepest condolences for yours and your families loss, allaah na ha u naxriisto, kulina xooga aad hore u wada socotaan ha idin siiyo.

ubaahne wallee you have a way with words, and your comment still has me in stitches, Zu, Walaal it depends on whether you see being gay as life style choice or not .. xiin, umm just no, point: when you say "Aren't they interfering in my life by trying to influence my kid" i think your right - however know that your child is also a product of their biology and their wider environment, and in many ways its as wrong to ignore these also-- since their effect comes out anyway NG, saaxiib i think your right, it'd be better to give a year or two

Che, a divine darwinian fatalistic rehash of the entropy argument then.. .. you may be on to something .. So, how accepting are of all the injustices that have befallen you in life so far - or you dont have have to accept them? With this ideology would you at least be allowed to attempt to consciously change them or would that taint the natural exploration for new evolutionary paths?

JOhny walaal, i'm one of those instilled children and i havent yet seen the harm - in fact on the contrary. Had you said the *same as* - then it would depend on what you believe. In its conclusive stand i'm afraid that comment is kinda orbiting the same distant star as one of khalaf's outbursts. xiin, So the vulnerability and danger are " a degree fondness and affection of this defective life style".. forgive if I don't take you seriously. Your talking about people, real humans with lives fears, joys and hopes, whom you reduce to a *defective choice *

Aphex twin's, 'come to daddy' is particularly conducive on a treadmill, not the mention the added bonus of paranoia filled brisk walk back home that it induces

xiin, yes, it seems i missed it. I see it now, vulnerability that was it. Would you be so kind as to point out for me how this filth would corrupt their minds making them *vulnerable* to leading to lives of sin again, please....

Originally posted by xiinfaniin: CG, as always, Xiin intends no pun. It’s becoming quite apparent that it’s difficult for you to concede! Xiin, walaal its a shame that you didn't mean it as a pun, because it was funny. No i'm afraid it doesnt parallel the showing of violence. I dont often hear people dying of gayness, but i have seen the victims of teenage mobs and of the cool gunknife culture. I think your notion of *explicit* is a result of your understanding of deviance - I have never heard of any one choosing, it is completely irrational to place your self in the way of harm, social castigation and outright hostility simply because you fancy it - it wouldn't last. If you would like to discuss the notion of normal - biological, mathematical and social - all of which are every different to each other and vary in themselves, then we can start a different discussion and i'd be happy to participate ... Any how as you said earlier this is beside the point though it seems the discussion has returned here. Point: First its alright doesn't mean just do it, its more like if others do it, your ok with it -- and this is why a theological problem may exists here. I say may, because interpretation is as varied as there are opinions .. but this is point of reasoning. wrt. 7 year olds knowing gay exists, the 7 year old i've seen use the term "its so gay" to describe something as being lame, and throw it left and right at their arch 7 year old enemies.. I don't entertain the idea that they understand what this means, nor do i think that a fairy tale will tell them any more than changing the names of the protagonist/antagonist(s) -- so they will probably still call each other gay when they wanna throw a verbal jab. Anyhow, if we take this as an experiment, with the hypothesis that providing information about being gay increases the chances of people becoming gay... I know you can see my point .. It wouldnt hold, for societies where such practices are dutifully suppressed we still see gay women and men - and if we had the capacity to collect real data on it, i dont think the rates would be different to society which are open about it, only the peoples life experiences would differ.. in fact as another digression a friend of mine lived in latin america for a year, a catholic archetype macho culture were the taboo as xiin would put it is strongly maintained. She was shocked that men would knife each other for being called gay, but were happy to keep a lover along side their wife.... i guess it takes all sorts to make the world go around.. Also i dont think the point of taboo here extends to the other relationship types you have mentioned. These relationship types are nurtured - with this point, i think we (I) get woolly, there is not as far i understand a brain function that says you will be attracted to woman A and not B (not the form of type but in person), so the actions that lead to incest are nurtured - i.e. a person involved in such action will not be exclusive to their partner, but would also be ok with a choice involving anyone of the same gender as their partner. This is not the case form homosexuality, i.e. there is a strong gender exclusivity, as implied in the title btw where i grew up it was cool to beat up the gay person not be their friend.. so any change is a good change for the lives of the people that suffer. anyhow i think indoctrination is too vague a concept, as i said such an action can at best make it ultimately acceptable for people to be gay, not make people gay. Whether this is a problem depends on how you see your role in determining how other people live their lives, since ultimately you or i will not judge ... Che, saxiib you are right, from next week i'll be all hang them high .. for every thing

go to world see u tomorrow

point: I have an issue with the indoctrination part. If being gay was something that people were led to, it would of died out long ago and certain wouldn't exist in most of the world. So i dont see what an affirmative character is meant indoctrinate a child to. simply because of the age, i think this is not aimed at people outside of that community..

khalaf, wallaal, do you honestly define islam by what you hate?

point: i remember the row when the school my sister went to tried to introduce the teaching of islam (early 2k) to the curriculum with catholics going ape on their culture and believes. what is the difference .. muslim people want their kids to learn about islam they choose, some one else chooses what is right for them, you dont have to follow it/

point: I'm sorry what was i thinking, there is absolutely no connection what so ever. Do you honestly believe that?

Kimiya: sister, i'm glad that your vocal chords are well equipped also, --- it its simple: 1 point : at the point a society has the rights to discriminate between people based on really pointless and inconsequentially facets like this every one is marginalised. If you cant get it, think of how many adjectives you could use to describe your self, and why they should determine what rights and protections the society u live in affords them

xiin saaxiib, please tell me how saying i've closed my eyes and its not there makes a difference or even better where its made a difference. Its a story book, where jack has two mothers.. my child knows jacks has two mothers, so i'm meant to infer that my child will want to be in same sex relationship? xiin " you happen to be on the wrong side of the fence" I'm sure you meant it as a pun

Khalaf: have you ever actually met a jew? and how come you typing at that invention of the gays again .. doesn't it make you feel dirty .. i think you should go and cleanse your self right away

kimiya Alxamdulilah They did well. i'm proud of them, and they are of me and I will also defend your rights. Its sad that you see your rights as human being to be a special case

khalaf, wlaahi you made me crack up laughing .. yep, you hang them first, and let us know when you create the 'disease free land' so i can avoid it btw working in IT i see, did you know that Alan Turing the father of the machine whose 60hz glow your starring at was gay? lordy how can you touch the keyboard now!

Originally posted by xiinfaniin: so you think exposing young children to homosexuality would instill tolerance in them? I think it's inappropriate--to say the least! Dude, we're not talking about a visit to your local gays-r-us for a tutorial.. so i hardly see how reading a story is damaging. Further when has hiding it actually made a difference. And what exactly is inappropriate about some one else living their life in isolation of yours? .. And don't come back with quotes, you or I don't create people nor judge them in the end

^^ i will NOT infer that Taliban is out from his absence p.s. princey is upset he said you promised like when you were 8... Sister that is just mean... keep the poor boy hanging for like how many years and then when he's about to arrive you're otherwise occupied ..