xiin walaal, in that case let me put it plainly. I'll assume we are talking of the governance of a nation. Without the "qualified rulers and educated masses", sharriica is still a notion of an ideal - however perfect. To become the law of governance it must be practiced by as you say "[un]qualified rulers and [un]educated masses". Therefore we cannot separate the ideal from practice. By all means take inspiration from it, refer to it for guidance, but since were not likely to see these perfect humans, up until the equally improbable of everyone agreeing on exactly the same interpretation of everything comes, a government should be run by laws of consensus that are constantly open to debate and scrutiny i.e. minus the trump card of its my interpretation of Allah's ruling.

Saaxiib, I wouldn't really call my self a liberal. I'm extreme in my opinion of anti-elitism. In all honesty i don't think these are ideas that we need to sell, each of us knows it - these guys are just more optimistic than me

Indeed.. Boys it looks like the secret/verdict is out.. you wanna be admired as the kaptan then you gotto act like the kaptan. points awarded for your prey's 1. Size - ideally its bigger than you 2. Teeth - a combination of number, sharpness and denstity 3. Fear factor - the more likely that there wont much of you left to walk back, the more kudos 4. Pose - having killed it, you must be able to fling it on and carry it like its nothing while being being hot off the catwalks of Milan 5. Finally, lets not forget the eyes - they must convey a cross between - trauma, passion and blood lust.. essentially she must constantly feel unsure of whether you want to carry on her shoulder or give your father 3 sons to be proud of.

Originally posted by Magool: The typical woman with stretchmarks, blemishes, buddha belly + hairy legs is no competition. Never heard of such a thing! I think you making it up.. JacB. She's awright, personally i'd rather a qalanjo bax, dhac iyo qac kaala daaleyn shehehehehe, they just make sure that i don't miss out

Khalaf, Xiin, just as Geeljire said, up until the perfect incorruptible all knowing, seeing people with the perfect understanding and knowledge of everything come around, i'll take the fallible and malleable man made law - defined and enforced by the peoples its there to govern.

Originally posted by Ms Dhucdhuc & Dheylo: I always wonder why the Somalis in Italy dont care much for their deen. I also wouldnt want a country being run on Sharia law .. shall we add london to the soulless too

Democracy is always bounded by the good it achieves. Hitler was elected democratically and somali's slay each other on the popular consensus of 'qabiil' today.. good riddance to such close mindedness

shehehe, to be honest my best spotters are female friends ... it just seems to came naturally to them

<- has a strange feeling that some people might be getting an endomorphin rush from the good kabtan kaluun

Originally posted by Peplow throb: Sharks are haram to eat. The poor ba$trd$ may be endangered but they are not xaram .. come to think it they'd be better off if that was the case... EVERY ONE, NEVER EAT A SHARK, THEY ARE XARAM AND YOU WILL GROW HAIR ON THE PALMS OF YOUR HANDS IF YOU EAT THEM... now how do we get the message to LBST here

Just for the record. Most TFG supporters, especially the ones here in SOL support the TFG because of its incumbent ability to result in the creation of a, perhaps mroe acceptable, national government. If this national government becomes installed, whatever that might entail what in the world does that sentence actually mean ?!

we are. if nothing else for encouraging and perpetuating systems of governance where the leaders and representatives are unaccountable to the peoples they claim to represent

^ you couldnt help at the dig could ya

grasping at those egalitarian straws i see ...

nuur walaal, surely if your gonna go to the trouble of asking which hand to drink Budweiser with, the least you could do is select a better brand of beer

Originally posted by Cara: ^Maths, man. 16 hours worth of income - 2 hours pay to the maid = more moolah than Faarax-and-Xaliimo will know what to do with. Everyone knows money makes you happy, ergo even more money will make you deliriously happy. My logic is unassailable. Simply the warped miscalculations of a yet to surrender wife. first, all th e evidence is that the happiness from money is not additive so 2x more money does not make you you 2x times happier, its even worse with the 16Hrs of work. Lets say your say you work a total of 14 hrs loosing 2Hrs of pay which is approximately 12.5% of the daily income. Now say that your daily icome for 16Hrs work is $100, working 14Hr instead would mean your take home $87.5 loosing only $12.5. Now how many maids do you know of that work for $6.25 p.h. or how many meals comparable to those made with loving hands can you get you for $12.5. And this is worse when you earn more, because the earnings of 10Hrs work are almost negligible compared to the 16hrs in your quality of life...

Norf, saaxiib i wont ask you to justify a reign that you are not responsible for, just your support (if any) for the ideology that drives it. The self preservation is interesting, we could get all Descarte about it and say since we're talking about human organisations they must serve human interests, so self preservation is at the heart of any human institution. It is interesting to look at it that way because the actions of an institution good or bad is then the result of how those action help the members of the institution. Be it the peace the ICU brought about, the political stability of the waqooyi administration, the relative economic prosperity of the bari, or the mayhem of the TGF. These are all the results of a set of self preservation interests being played out with a constant balancing act to find how much can you can skim off and still remain in power. The problem with the comparison to other peaceful entities is that though the aims of somali politics are no different to anywhere else in the world, our driving ideology is bloody and emphasises irreconcilable difference. Its not like you can change clan like you would political allegiance. That is why the end result in somali politics is truly flawed - i.e. it doesn't matter that clan X has built 100 hospitals because its driving interest are the members of clan X, so all other clans are now in competition for the resources to build 101 hospitals for their members, of course plus what ever can be skimmed of the top for the leaders. Therefore the interest for people to propagate the ideology. Even worse, these leaders are no longer accountable for their actions to anyone except to their members and somali culture tells you support them unquestionably since they are looking out for your interest so they get away with murder. So really we cant compare then to other peaceful entities because their core driving forces are so warped. Fundamentally, this is why support for all that define themselves along such likes is wrong - in our somali case the outputs like the relative political stability don't change the incentives that drive the ideology, in fact they strengthen it. The forces that may be are simply paying back for their position and prestige. Give us ideologies are inclusive and we can discuss difference in outcomes but with the current somali mentality, we will always be discussing who is being wronged and what dues they will play out when their time comes. To end my rant, i'd just like to appeal to you to see that support for any segregation based regime in somalia is simply support for the perpetuation of an ideology of segregation no more.

The term 'conventional wisdom' comes to mind .. and if used in such an *obvious* manner, belief is no different to conversational wisdom. The interesting thing about about conventional wisdom is that its a derogatory term used to imply no thought required, you just the pill of wisdom. As norf said is it convenient. my point is that regardless of what people belief or disbelief, maybe its not too much to ask for a bit of thought

A Somali man carries dead sharks to the market near Hamarweyn as Somali citizens take advantage of an uneasy lull in the fighting to resume normalcy. Photo: AFP/Getty Images --- I cant quite get over how surreal the image is (plus the barcelona t-shirt) and in the intensity on the guys eyes -

wrt can one talk peace and support the TFG? In fantasy or in somali politics? In as much as one can talk somalia and support the wayooqi administration as republic. Ask yourself will the administration accept an Ethio/US alliance to preserve it self - if you answer no then your saying that its not self interested, and then you have to find answers to why its there in the first place, why is it seeking recognition and all those mucky questions that we like to cover up with 'but Hargeysa is peaceful'. I'm sure you see the obvious contradiction - this doesn't result from inferring that some group equals good and another bad, but simply somali politics is nasty tournament of self interest. Support for one group based on the divided ideology is support for all since it perpetuates the spread and survival of that ideology. So is there much difference between the two .. at the core none, they both pursue power with the same ideology. So really the support that is given does not benefit one group over the other, so much as it only propagates and strengthens an ideology of division and exclusivity of power.

indeed its all inconvenient.. however, lets not hop and skip over the six small characters it takes to spell the big notion of belief as though it were the most convenient of daily tussles to run into.. sorry i'm going off on one, but these types of expressions of 'it should be obvious, your obviously too belligerent or ishtupid to see it' really get at me - inevitably the arguments for belief look silly, since if it were so easy, obvious and convenient everybody would be doing it and evidence wouldn't require the interpretation that prerequisites belief

yes its sunday, But whats the difference, i support the TFG, and i support the waqooyi administration, either way i'm supporting a group that defines themselves a political elite based on the clan. In effect how they can be made to be seen as separate from the rest The means by which they achieve the position are irrelevant, since in the interest of self preservation a group will do what ever it takes

unsurprisingly the same argument applies to How do they accept? Because its convenient, it gets 'out the way' etc

The hypocrisy in some peoples attempts at a put down is astounding. How do u attack someone for the TFG support when you yourself advertise and champion a clan based nation..

u mean u disagree! i'm sure there is a fatwa about disagreeing with fatwas