^ i think the technical name for it is the self-reinforcing argument, from what i hear, its very persuasive

it's not a politics section, its a cesspit

Ethiopia's 'own Darfur' as villagers flee government-backed violence By Steve Bloomfield in Bosasso Published: 17 October 2007 Early one June morning, in Kamuda, a village of 200 families in the remote 0gaden region in eastern Ethiopia, 180 soldiers announced their arrival by firing guns in the air. The village, they said, had been providing food and shelter for the 0gaden National Liberation Front (ONLF), a separatist rebel group . As the villagers froze in horror, the soldiers plucked out seven young women, all aged between 15 and 18, and left. The following morning the youngest girl was found. Her body, bloodied and beaten, was hanging from a tree. The next day a second girl was found hanging from the same tree. A third suffered the same fate. The others were never seen again. Shukri Abdullahi Mohammed, 48, a mother of seven children, lived in Kamuda. As she describes the fate of the seven girls – "the most beautiful girls in the village" – she tightens her headscarf around her neck to indicate the way they were killed. "I will not forget it," she says. Days later, a 12-year-old boy from the same village was kidnapped by soldiers and gang-raped. Every night, soldiers would knock on doors looking for women to rape. "I did not want to wait until it happened to my family," said Mrs Mohammed. They left Kamuda and made their way across the porous border with Somalia, before travelling a further 300 miles by foot to the hot and humid port town of Bosasso. About 100 Ethiopians are now arriving here every day. Their stories reveal the brutality of Ethiopia's hidden war, a brutal counter-insurgency that some aid officials believe has parallels with Darfur. Some estimates put the number of people displaced by the violence at 200,000 already. According to accounts from refugees, Ethiopian troops are burning villages, raping women and killing civilians as part of a systematic campaign to drive them from their homes. They reported dozens of villages destroyed and accused the Ethiopian government of forcibly starving its own people by preventing food convoys reaching villages and destroying crops and livestock. A former Ethiopian soldier who defected from the army said how he had been ordered to burn villages and kill all their inhabitants. He said the Ethiopian air force would bomb a village before a unit of ground troops followed, firing indiscriminately at civilians. "Men, women, children – we killed them all," he said. "We were told we were fighting guerrillas – the ONLF," he said. "But we were killing farmers – they were not ONLF." Those who managed to escape are living in a series of ramshackle refugee camps on the edge of Bosasso. Their shelters are made from pieces of cardboard and old rags, scraps of plastic sheeting and rusting corrugated iron. Sat outside the shelters, on the grey expanse of dust and stone, voices overlap as refugees list the villages that have been destroyed. Kor u Celista, Gallaalshe, Fooldeex, Yoocaalle – places that were all once home to hundreds of families, now abandoned and empty, the huts burnt to the ground. Abudllahi Shukri Mohammed, 30, a cattle herder from Dega Bur province tells how he was forced at gunpoint to work as a porter for a group of 300 soldiers. They took his 18 cows and made him and five other nomads carry heavy loads. After three long days marching through the 0gaden, Mr Mohammed tried to escape. "They caught me and started beating me. They kicked me in the head and hit me with the back of their guns." With his right arm he motions the steady, repetitive smack of the guns against his body. His left arm lies limp on his lap. He has been unable to move it since the attack, his fingers fixed in an ugly formation. "They beat me for two hours," he says, "then I fell unconscious. They thought I was dead so they left me." Ethiopia claims it is defending itself against an insurgency launched by the ONLF in a region that has long been marginalised. It claims villagers have been giving the fighters shelter and food. Analysts say Ethiopia has been attempting to reduce that support by emptying the countryside. Thousands have been moved to towns heavily controlled by the military. Anyone left in the villages is considered a possible ONLF supporter. The Ethiopian military is not the only destructive force in the region. The ONLF launched its most daring assault in April. The group attacked a Chinese oil installation in Abole, killing nine Chinese and 65 Ethiopians. It was that attack which sparked the fresh counter-insurgency – a fierce scorched-earth policy. In the 0gaden's main towns, Jijiga and Gode, the prisons are overflowing. "They are arresting anyone who they think might have a connection with the ONLF," says one human rights worker in Bosasso. "Some are being killed if the security forces don't believe they are telling the truth." Human rights investigators are gathering evidence of widespread use of rape, with women reporting gang-rapes by up to a dozen soldiers. In some villages, men have been abducted at night, their bodies dumped in the village the next morning. While in Darfur, aid agencies have been able to establish camps and provide humanitarian support, they have been blocked from setting up operations in the 0gaden. The International Committee of the Red Cross has been thrown out and Medicins Sans Frontieres has also been prevented from working. Journalists trying to enter have also been banned – those that have tried have been promptly arrested. A UN team was allowed into the 0gaden last month to investigate allegations of abuse by Ethiopian troops. Its report was not made public but the team called for an independent inquiry. But while Khartoum's counter-insurgency in Darfur has been described by the US as "genocide" and by the UN as "crimes against humanity", international condemnation of Ethiopia has, so far, been limited. Indeed, the US has given its backing to Ethiopia. America's top official on African affairs, assistant secretary of state, Jendayi Frazer, visited one town in the 0gaden last month. On her return to Ethiopia's capital, Addis Ababa, she criticised the rebels and said the reports of military abuses were merely allegations. "We urge any and every government to respect human rights and to try to avoid civilian casualties but that's difficult in dealing with an insurgency," she said. America sees Ethiopia as its principal Horn of Africa ally in the "war on terror". The US gave tacit approval for Ethiopia's Christmas invasion of Somalia which ousted the Union of Islamic Courts. It also provided logistical and technical support for the operation and continues to help co-ordinate a response to the insurgency in Somalia's capital, Mogadishu, which seeks to destabilise the transitional government, propped up by Ethiopia. The US provides some $283m (£140m) in military and humanitarian aid to Ethiopia and has trained its military – one of the largest and strongest in Africa. The 0gaden has become the latest flashpoint in a broader conflict in the Horn of Africa. On one side is Ethiopia and the weak transitional government of Somalia, on the other is Eritrea and two insurgent groups, the ONLF and the Alliance for the Re-liberation of Somalia (ARS). From West's favourite leader to grave-digger of democracy Sat between a beaming Tony Blair and Sir Bob Geldof, Ethiopia's Prime Minister, Meles Zenawi, could hardly have wished for a stronger endorsement. The launch of Mr Blair's Commission for Africa report in March 2005 in Ethiopia's capital, Addis Ababa, enhanced Mr Meles's position as the British Government's – and the West's – favourite African leader. Handpicked by Mr Blair to sit on the commission, Mr Meles was viewed as the man to lead the "African renaissance". He was seen as a leader committed to development and democracy. But within two months of the commission's report being published, Mr Meles's star began to fade. Huge street protests erupted in Addis Ababa in May 2005 following a general election which both the government and opposition claimed they had won. Security forces opened fire on protesters, killing 193 people, and thousands of opposition supporters and leaders were arrested. More than 100 opposition leaders were put on trial for treason while the police crackdown intensified. Text messages, which had been used to organise the demonstrations in 2005, were banned. The next time Mr Meles and Mr Blair found themselves sat next to each other, at a summit in South Africa, the stiff body language and the lack of eye contact between the pair underlined the deterioration in the relationship. Britain still gives Ethiopia £130m in humanitarian aid each year – more than any other African country. Like the US, Britain has tried to retain a relatively close relationship with Ethiopia – one of its few allies in a volatile Horn of Africa.

^lol, did touch upon a sore point? man just go bck relect, and think on what your actually boasting about before you gimme commentary on the notion of nationhood and identity

point, your too intelligent not to know pattern of aggression in the somali context is the body bags of innocent somalis, men and boys, not the aggressors. that the gains to be made or lost arn't for the people subject to their rule. without sounding sanctimonious, sometimes its good to have a reality check, parts of somalia are currently in the midst of the worst draughts for a generation. You know of the mass internal destitution, no aid coming in, no support, no saviour in the horizon. with all the this, the audacity of the warm and well fed to chant war cries behind their monitor glows is rich. now on the back of the month of ramadam, to call it barbarian wouldn't do it justice

OW wallaal, i will gladly take your title of the village buffoon, since even a village buffoon knows not attempt to insult another man with fish and chips when he's chosen to define himself with a cultural context drawn up for you by the said fish and chips walaalow, hadaadan wax fahmin, noo soo sheeg, daanyeer kuu micneeya baan heli karnaa

^ walaal, do you think you missed a few highlights

^ walaal, i have no hidden superiority complex, just an aversion to the festering disease of qabiil and the sinful calls for your brothers blood to be shed. By posting the chest beating boasts, the war cries of men save behind their four walls, while poor men and children shoot at each other on their behalf, you are a direct link in the chain that attempts to justify the brother kill brother stink of somali culture. Now tell me how does that sit with your conciousness? Your so called somali pride and nationhood, What justifies it for you? land? power? wealth? nationhood? The simple truth is that not a single drop is worth shedding over the power games between the hellhounds of soomaaliyaa somaliland puntland iyo shaydaanland. So regardless of any thing else, if no blood is tonight, if the starving is the abaar ridden lands eat, if fewer people are thrown off boats into red sea, we've had good night. in the words of ice-cube, `check yo self before you wreck yo self'. Istaaqfur-allah dheh, oo zakat miskiinta abaarka iyo dagaalka baa-bi'ye u d i r

Duke, what you mean like sit behind my monitor, the armchair general and call for the blood of other people to be shed? How brave and moral you must all be. Hadaadan hilmaamin isbuuci hore diin iyo nasab baad u wada soomaneedeen, not tele-inter-ethic cleansing.

DUKE, let us know if you need help with your ticket back home to fight the good war

Originally posted by Zafir: ^Prove it. ^ lol, mean

^ and north, if you also agree with the metaphysics argument, what's your problem with atheists

^^ Go on guys, how many do you think will die in the process .. oh what fun this is

As for Sophist and meta-physics, i've no problem with the great Sophist's position. I wouldn't call him s great, have you seen how small his head is so if you've got no problem with the metaphysics argument, what iss your problem with religion?

xiin: ---- Now I think NGONGE also has a point. Though Somaliland troops captured the city the thing is how long can they sustain it? What are the ramifications of this bold move? Is it a Riyaale move to distract other issues or is this a war agreed by all stakeholders in Somaliland politics? Who’s going to pay the prize of the insecurity created here? There are hard questions. ---- These are the easiest questions going, what has changed, the starving and destitute in berbera to mombasa will continue to laydown their pound of flesh. A friend just came back from east africa, having been conducting disaster relief planning with an aid agency. Her only comment has been that what somali's are willing to inflict on each other with impunity has killed any faith she's had in humanity. Giving idio-t-s the voice to spread the propaganda of the vampires in somalia left and right has turned this forum into the cesspit of sol.

JB, first, thanks for yahya, i'll remember to listen to him as soon as i throw myself out of the nearest window. second, logic as in formal systematic and mathematical form that we use is flawed not in terms of human make mistakes, but because it is in consistent with itself. This what Kurt Gödel proved in his incompleteness theorems. In short, they say that there can exist some things that are known to be true, but cannot be determined to be theoretically true. here, theoretical truth, is meant by following the rules of logical deduction and inference. anyhow, the point is as sophist said, its metaphysical. and i'll add to it by saying if it cant be expressed is nasty maths, then its metaphysical.

^ you didn't answer NG's question, do you really believe that crap you write?

Originally posted by Cara: quote:2) installed all the virus/ spam/ adware/ adblockers/ firewall/ backup/ restore/ autostart /autoshutdown You forgot a little nozzle that sprays her with water if she presses the wrong button. Now cara, first of all put those nails away, good. Its obvious that you weekends haven't been turned into a ' family and everyone they know' round-robin of fix my computer. These are necessary precautions woman!

serenity, i fully understand what you mean and i didnt think you were trashing. I found a solution to most of the teaching problem, i'll share it with you my qaudruple pronged attack against 'komputerka', may be you wanna try it 1) i bought her a laptop, (very very important) 2) installed all the virus/ spam/ adware/ adblockers/ firewall/ backup/ restore/ autostart /autoshutdown and u name it software i could find as well as all the software she'll ever need (luckily she treasures her laptop so i can be certain it will be the best treated object in her house - she's even named it!) 3) got rid of internet explorerd, and configured her an update process to scan everything twice at 8pm every night with the express instruction the laptop is on and online that time everynight (she follows it religiously) 4) taught her how to use the mouse button (now that was fun, lotts of 'weee' and 'ooooh i missed again' followed by a roar of laughter as it took her a full 5 mins to line up the arrow on her first go with the little mouse button - her machine has no touchpad) and gave a crash course on how to reset her computer back to a safe state if a disaster happens from a live cd. Then i told her to attempt to break it as i got out of there as fast as possible. And once there was no else to do it, mum was faaasst - luckily she's heard of Nigerian scammers from a friend of hers, doesn't need any body mods, and is too attached to her purse strings, so we're safe from her spammers. the problem comes when we try to explain something .. we should just stop doing that. I mean there NO somali worlds for why the youtube video is so slow when 10 other things are running and your on the other end of a skype call trying to find the right somali words for 'try the slider bar and maybe pausing it a bit to let video buffer.' it was as funny as it was frustrating. We gave up on the 'waryaa my camera is not working' session until my next flight! Luckily i haven't had to implement business plans (YET), but really people we need a somali vocab for this stuff -

A new definition of surreal, Trying to teach your mother to use youtube over a skype call while she's moaning at you for having made her loose the web-IQ test that she was in the middle of when you inconsiderately told her to click on the link you sent her! There has to be a word a phrase, something for how i'm feeling right now! btw apparently einstien *only* had an IQ of 170! Food for thought

kkTake advantage of the general good will of the month and give it a try, say 'ayaan i think your misguided, you've misrepresented the truth in order to serve your interests and have done more to damage the standing and prestige of muslims and especially muslim women (your chosen subject of interest) than enlighten them. but i no longer harbour ill will towards you, and wish you the best and hope to see back as one of us.'

seriously man, i'm with me on this, muslims should rise above her, the best way to devalue her words is to show their insignificance by having muslims embrace her and forgive her, really, mercey and forgiveness are the ultimate killers against her message. she have nothing to fight with in her propaganda war, saying 'ooh, well they've forgiven me and think i'm kinda misguided, but don't want any harm to come to me, in fact, they want me back! ' aint gonna get any headlines

Dude, you dont think all the habaar and cursing is kinda whack given the time of year?

^ dude, its flies around the no so proverbial $* and talk about yourself there , haven't read the essay before i found it very interesting, and seriously, no tongue and cheek, there is a lot to be said for "ilaaha ka cabso' (tho' personally i prefer messages of love as opposed to fear) - I just find it hard to digest absolutes, and a lack of acceptance for the uncertainty in reality - from all perspectives, the religious to the atheist. Hence the point of faith and investigation. And dude, rationality is way overrated

*but* (note the stars) its possibly the second most fun thing possible while hurting yourself