I agree with what you have just said, but i thin that another very important factor is that we somalians have almost nothing to be proud of, other immigrant populations have the pride of the acheivements of their motherlands whilst we have almost absolutely nothing

ogun is an african expression of male exeptionality as a an idea it is a shaper of the myths of annunaki and dogon mysteries, and my english lit teacher thought it appropriate. I have read sophists writing here and in other forums and i can only say..well it has been said better " he is inebriated with the luster of his own verbosity", some where along the way you picked up the idea that the more antic and inacssesible yor phrasing and enunciation of an argument, the more convincing you are, i hope that is not the case, low self-esteem and intellectual pretensions show through in that way. secondly your input is not the end all of any discussion, and give the sister a break we have all started some where, and i dare say she is ahead of a lot of us by genuinley reaching out for a disscusion, and not some phraseological prancing that you obviously think is neccesary.

a centralised republic did not fail in somalia but a centralised attempt to impose clannism failed, there is a diffrence. Do you really think that we can afford hundreds of deputies in every state legislature, thousands of civil servants be duplicated at every level, can we even maintain it, do we even have the capacity after 12 yrs of war did we have the capacity before the war, and i can assure you that the reason why there is such clamouring for succesion is selfich self promotion , so i gots to agree with annunaki

I respect sophist's views but i must admit i am a little wary of him after all he chose to name him self after a school that believes in the art of convincing on supercilious and spurious grounds that on later analysis proves to be totally un-convincing, lool nuff said. On neitzche's philosophy this illustrates the pitfalls of philosophy, his main contention is that the more humanity learns about it's condition both in the feild of science and in the politico-moral realm the less there is this respect awe and appreciation of the higher entity that use to govern all these things. As such if god was a logicaly constructed by humanity to fill a logical void then he can be logically deconstructed by the ubermensch i.e superman or the highest level that humanity can inspire "itself to". Then logically God is dead. logically. I dindt get what the lady said but utopia originally was not so much a creation but a vision of a rational and logical (notice the logical)put into eloquent word by sir thomas more, so just reapet the question, i am paying attention.

Yea, this will get intreasting as we go along.... I dis-agree with bro mahadi that the idea of universal morality is based on how the enviroment moulds the individuals conception of morality, but i must add that as in everything that faces a human this must remain an equivocal statement, using mahadi's idea we can continue to argue that there is no such thing as universal morality, indeed in the idea he has given the only morality that one must practice is that of survival, excuse me but i think that this leaves us on the same plain as animals. the very idea of humanity is based on self-improvement that is the idea that i look for in every philosophy or action i take into account. so universal morality must be the definition by wich humanity quantifys it own progression. I can claim that in that sense philosophy is failing, philosophy is a human atempt and it innately flawed. we cannot formulate positions outside of our own view, if i belive a slave is sub-human i shall try to formulate an idea as to how correct iam an not HOW WRONG. I would like to know fellow nomads idea on determinism. this as plainy put is the idea that freadom of choice is non existent. taking the example of me coming up and slapping a total stranger for no reason he has only the following reactions open to him 1- he might slap back 2- he might do nothing or he might appeal to higher authority i.e the 50. so strictly spaeking he does not have any freedom of choice because i have already limited his options! Do you agree with this Holla!!

I thought that people would jump at this topic.... Plato was a precursor to the fascistic coception of universal morality i mean with his definition of humanity in to those that having greater abilities and therefore must be seperated from others that are not so well endowed, a tiered socity that would create and maintain and ideal republic plse. the more i need philosophy the more i think that at best it is an attempt to understand his plan or at worst an attempt to quantify and then put him outside the equation. God might is dead, that is what a philosopher had to say on the subject(nietzche)

The man is an arrogant little cowboy, disregard for every and anything that does not follow the parochial and limited views of his supporters........blah...blah......! I have heard this argument many times but i keep on wondering on the brink of an at least debatable military action, an economy just waiting to go bust, and this new afirmative action in universitys action the man is still popular! What i want to know is how this monkey will affect somalis going to colledge with his godamn ideas!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:

:mad: That is the world we live in god forgive muslims for our weakness, but things change aint no doubt about that!

We all have experienced a conversation with some one who seems to be just a little more knowledgable about somalia and are always involved in some way or another in somali youth issues and peace confrences. Thats great and must be supported, but the funniest thing is to watch them squirm when you ask them what they are going to do with all their leadership skills,,,,watching them hemming and hawing, really it is to much fun. But any way i figured maybe we are in the company of or know a future somali leader. May be we should create our own role of fame. with that in mind check out this guy: http//pirate.shu.edu/~samataya/ this guy is one of the most advanced in self promotion as you can see

This is still an unfinished thesis but when you look at the history of the world, you see that every development, mental, political, or technological was superseded and marked by intense violence, as an example take any religious or socio-political reformation. Also when you look at the "mordern" history you see how it is all nothing but an attempt by some to remove the present elite, if you look at any revolution the true beneficiaries were the middle class( the lawyers such as robbespierre and lenin as against true for the lack of the word proliterians) but inspite of this when you look at human development i mean even as homosapiens we had to battle against a previous breed and ..well...exterminate them. History is violence and it kills what cannot prosper. if this is true were are we as somalis and muslims heading to?

Amina lawal according to some interpretations of islam is not to be stoned to death, simply because she is not married. According to islam she must have been found in FRAGLANTE DELICTO to be convicted was she? lastly according to islam both must be punished, the man and the woman, is it justice if it is only the woman? As i have said before sharia is a sensible system, but when it is used as a political bargaining chip to intimidate others, and used more over by one of the most corrupt elite in the world, then it ceases to be shariah, and becomes something abhorrent. I dont care what the west and their mental stooges say, but i cannot support a false case. neither can you if you tink a bout it.

Just to show what we think of divorce look at this: a mans wife leaves to England( jolly, and oh glory), she then writes a letter saying she wants a divorce. The man instead of railing at such iniquities and cursing her very, proceeds to inform her that he will only do it if she seends him enough money to support his khat habit! and you talk of divorce like it is a new phenomenon?

when one talks about being stateless, one must also take in to account how he became thus. a state however rudimentary, unjust or, corrupt is preferable to what is now known as somalia. Violence is what we can not live under, not the infinite possibilities of...yes even corruption.

Perhaps i was to negative, and maybe i should not forget that i am a member of the most reselient people on earth but all the same i was not trying to draw attention to the present situation, but rather the end result of the present. Do you think that we are really going to develop a culture stronger, when all the forces of change are negative, from foriegn ideas imbibed haphazardly, to this sub-existence that so many of us felt at one time or another. Is this what will be used to rebuild our country? by the way when a post states that we should return to religion, all i can say is that is a done deal theoreticaly, and impossible practicaly.

Bfore i start i would like to make clear that i am speaking only of my generational set. I only qoute this guy because my knowledge is limited, but Plato said that an ideal human is one trained in gymnastics as trainig for the body, and the love of all things beutifull i.e justice, humanity and such like. using this flawed suppostion( as ny thing thought by a human as ideal is always flawed as set against the quran) my geeration broken down in to two parts are not going along well , and to use this tired cliche, it follows that our future gets darker every day this bussines, for profit called the civil war goes on in our homeland. 1) somalis raised out side somalia have lost their language a generelization sure but it must be admitted that our grasp of our mother tongue even when spoken by thebet of us is flawed. we therefore cannot comprehend the uances of our culture hence that culture is bound to collapse under the weight of it's own incomprehension by those who are supposed t be it's standrd bearers. we live in a dual world at once fulminating against the hypocrisy and aridity of western pop culture fr there is no longer any other. whilst all these idiots are representin L.a or whatever wearing, talking and thinking shit even as they perform ablutions, to pray in language they dont preceive in a practise they would rather do with out. At once calling new comer somalis backward as they hope against hope or peace in somalia. watchingm there parents do things foreign to them, such as prostitution and they themselve if not agreeing with it, thinking of it atleast as normal progression of modernity. here we stand with one foot in here another in there consequently, looking fools to the druggie they imitate and their parents who cannot understand them. here is where we stand it would be funny if it does not cause be to lose breath. 2) soamlis in somalia have only seen violece as the acceptable form of conflict resolution as the SHIR is forgotten and ridiculed. Forms of violence such as rape are considerd acceptable ways of control. Disscusion is anethma, and dangerous and anybody who opposes,..well who opposes now, not them not the children of the diaspora. there shall be no future, we keep denying our past talking tribalistic shit and loving it. the future of somalia is that we will lose all, we may survive, but the land will say to those who listen i am no longer somalia forget me.