Salaams sister ameenah, First I have not called you ignorant, and if you were to read my post you would see that I have not said you supported the U,N Convention, I was atempting to make clear to you that what YOU hold as human rights and what is held to be HUMAN RIGHTS by the lawyers , jurists , politicians and public of the countries we live in are two very diffrent things. There is a saying that goes, one cannot hold down something with out holding down the adjoining, conversley one cannot speak about human rights with out clarifying what it means. That is only reason why I brought up the issue of the U.N document which is the final document of human rights law in the west , therefore to understand this document and the various applications it has had on muslim counties and peoples scince its inception I think was called for. I personaly see this Hijaab case separately to what is happening in the Muslim world and the UN convention. There is a differnce between a Muslim living in the west and one that lives in a Muslim country...the laws are different - obviously!! There fore again i think it was called for to clarify your position. The laws are diffrent(which incidentally has been my point all along)...indeed they are, they legislated by representatives of the american public, a public which if it does not subscribe to MORAL MAJIORITY antics or the rhetoric of RUSH LIMBAUGH are supporters of liberal human rights, rights which unfortunately mean both nothing to the cumulative leadership of the unitedstates and are directly opposite to what muslims consider to be fundamental human rights. What I am saying is, that since we are living in their countries and are bound under their laws. See, if you got burgaled you'd use their judical system right? If a member of your family was murdered you also use their judical system. Now, why shouldn't we use their laws when our rights are being hampered with? What makes harrasing a sister (beacuse being refused to wear hijab is a form of harrasment) any lesser crime? Yes we are living in THEIR countries and we have to use their JUDICIAL system, again you come up with the idea of using their law's, laws which however way you view them are a detriment to muslims way of life in THEIR country. What I am saying is, that since we are living in their countries and are bound under their laws. See, if you got burgaled you'd use their judical system right? If a member of your family was murdered you also use their judical system. Now, why shouldn't we use their laws when our rights are being hampered with? What makes harrasing a sister (beacuse being refused to wear hijab is a form of harrasment) any lesser crime? So in the first part you agree and in the second part you are implying (to be kind) that I do not view it as an act of harrasment! Again you use the word crime a legal terminology one that i can easily leagislate if the social enviroment is tense enoigh and joe public willing enough to cover "THAT LITTLE DISH CLOTH ALL THOSE AYRABS PUT ON THEIR HEADS". Liqaye, it is so easy for you to sit there and condemn people for standing up to gaaloda by beating them with their own laws BUT you fail to provide a solution for the problem I did not codemn anybody and as a short term solution it is slightly effective. But again are muslims really expecting to entrust their religious and cultural wellbeing to Western laws???(feel free to answer this oft reapeted question) America and the west are only making the most of a situation created by the Muslim world. This reminds me of that hadiith of the Prophet (saw) nations will attack you like a dish.. when asked if it was because of our small number, He said it was due to us loving the world and hating death.... I find it gratifying that you have quoted this hadith because it logically leads to two questions....Is allowing once self to be misled by misinterpretated and tainted western notions such as Human rihts the same as loving life. And the most important one to my mind why really did the chicken cross the road.

Asaalam aleiykum sijui-1 I thank you for clearing that up for me. And i appologize having read most of your posts I should have known better than to have thought the only reason you posted this was because of the fellows involved being white. But you must admit you would not have found this on the net, if they were not white, it would not have been printed in the papers if they were not white. So i hope that you share my revulsion with the double standards. Again my appologies.

Salaams bro, that was a very intreasting aritcle, i mean it is straight up no mincing of words or nothing. Maybe now some people will wake up who talk about their counties like they have a stake in it. Maybe PEOPLE should understand the diffrence between INSTITUTIONAL RASICM and you run of the mill cross burning. let them see those who are looking.

Oct 21 at the time was reated wth delirium and elation. Although it was never a popular revolution and can never claim to be more than a military coup, it was a very popular coup. People thougt it marked the end of a corrupt, weak and shallow democracy typiefied by but not limited to the Sharmarke-egal administration. But unfortunately in our case it just ushered in an era worse than anything expected by a somali. So in my opinion it should not be looked upon as an inherently good or bad day but rather as a day of lost oppurtunities and misplaced hope. ON oct 21 i say Let it never happen again.! it is my personal vow.

Rahima your posts are ALWAYS very intreasting and informative but i feel i have to clarify something. Islam is a very democratic system, indeed the shariah is fixed but also men have been given considerble leeway under the SHURA system (consultation) to govern them selves under the sovreignty of the almighty. Indeed if democracy is truth, how more thruthfull would an islamic democracy be?

Islamic republic of somalia I am 100% against the idea of a federal republic in somalia especially as it has been formulated by the rent seekers and warlords of the past 13 failed confrences. I belive that although the desicion making process will have to be quite decentralised in any future republic, a federation would be a fundamental mistake in our political discourse one that we will pay for very severly in open wounds left unattended and institutionalised hypocrisy (for to justify fedralism you must presuppose that the protection of diffrent cultures and ethniticies is paramount, in our case WHICH diffrent culture and ethnicity?)and clannism embroiderd with the legitamcy of the term FEDERAL REPUBLIC. Secondly federalism is not a home grown idea, it has been adopted by the warlords and their supporters as a way of continuing their now legitimate feifdoms under the guise of federalism. It has been adopted by ethiopia as a way of keeping somalia permenantly weakened. And last but not least it does not adress the primary issue to come out of the civil-war namely CLANNISM, indeed as it is envisioned now, all it proposes is the duplication at lower levels of goverment all the ills and problems arising from unresolved political and tribalist issues. More fundamentally one must ask ones self who will pay for this very expensive system that duplicates states functions in all provinces of somalia. What about the fine print will their be a right of succession in the constitution....sorry for my lapse into naivete ... ..... of course their will be , picture jubba "state" seceding with Morgan as provisional president, picture all other states refusing, picture you, me and the nation plunging into another inferno. It has to be an islamic country because we are all muslims and besides ........ that is the only goverment i will accept. say it loud and proud I am a fundamentalist !

Bee i understand what you mean and you have made their argument much clearer, but in the final analysis what matters is what the west calls spirit of the times or zeitgeist, and i hope that all muslims not only somalis understand that we are out side of the spirit of the times ....for a the lack of a better word ..our belifs and religious observances are becoming more and more redundant..and to Joe Public we are becoming more and more sinister. As an example the last i heard in U.K the traditional way of slautering halal meat was an affront to animal DIGNITY!!!! A commision of inquiry has even ruled that halal foods as well as kosher foods should be banned. Were are all the rights of millions of muslim britons? to eat what they want to eat and prepare according to their custom and religious practices? In the paraphrased words of a socialist I HAVE SEEN THE FUTURE, AND IT DOES NOT WORK FOR MUSLIMS. (in the west) again can people stop talking about laws and constitutions , as men have made them so can they be unmade to handle new threats to civilisation.....uhhm if you havent yet got it that is you and me.

Salaams sue. This article just proves what many somali fishermen have been whispering about. African coastlines are the prefered dumping groung for this lucrative bussiness because they cannot patrol and police their own boders let alone their territorial waters. I watched a program a while back talking about the fishing industry in the senegal, this country earns 25% of its G.D.P from fishing but yet it has only 2 patrol ships to protect 200 miles of E.E.Z (exclusive economic Zone) just two ships you could bury atlantis west of maputo, mombasa or mogadishu and we would not know anything about it :eek: . Recently there was a phenomena streching from Lamu in kenya all the way to Kismayu were millions of tonnes of fish just floated up to the surface of the sea, dead and yellowish, they say itsbecause of change of climate. I say pull the other leg sonny jim its got bells on it.

Salams shijui-1 I think you have missed my point , I do not belive in murder or in violence. But i maybe i will clarify my position by asking you a question. Would it have been in the newspaper or on the net if it was merely two somali teachers who were killed. I think not and deep down you do too.

hey ameenah and Lucky, ameenah first of all as intreasting as it is sometimes to argue about the U.S.A really being the whites man country, and watching the red necks get all flustered , if you are even 1% doubtfull of that please stop reading the thread. you said that the United states is bound by human rights, again i wonder if you have not being paying attention to the course of history for the past 50 years, human rights ala the U.N and liberalism is used to promote sexual perversion, it is a front for the attack on the family unit the building blocks of any society, it actively protects and promotes deviations and abominations. If you think me hysterical, then consider the greatest human rights document, the united nations human rights resolution of 1965, this document has been used to accuse muslim countries such as iran and saudi arabia, of human rights violations. why? > because of polygamy (which has to be stamped out) > freedom of worship (muslim countrys are not welcoming enough to evangelical riff-raff and free masons) > sexual deviants( we as muslims do not actively protect and promote homoseuality) As a muslim how could you support such "HUMAN RIGHTS" how could you live in a country that ascribes to such human rights, but you see ameenah you do so as i do and like i said let go of the righteous indignation and talk of non-existent human rights. Finaly i would like to know what you would do if this case went to the supreme court and it was declared by some abtuse legal reasoning and according to fundamental human rights that the young girl's wearing of hijab in school is an attack on the others student rights. what would you do? to lucky: I agree with you that galoos are sickos, but again i state it is their country to do with as they see fit. You talk of a womans fundamental rights, in the U.S as in the west a womans rights is as it has been legislated to be so. picture this the year 2004 dirty nuclear bomb explodes in miami killing and maiming 3,000,000. it is proven to have been set off by an al-qaeda cell. beards are cut off and legislation is enacted to remove the terrorist threat once and for all. Tell me where your human rights and lol islamic commision will be then? It maybe far fetched but people are a little too confident with an american dream that has been built on their gullibilty. concerning the dirty bomb it has been ascertained by a U.N commision that the russians have lost 43 suitcase seized bombsscince the fall of the U.S.S.R. HAVE A NICE DAY

Salaams modesty, I thought that people better placed than me would have responded by now, but scince they have not i will tell you what the deal is. The present talks going on in kenya, is just the same as a case of a snake trying to swallow its own tail, either way it still loses, with out the proper participation of all sections of the somali community, and using the same discredited equation that peace between somali warlords equals peace between somalis, the peace talks in kenya are bound to FAIL. I say this as a somali nationalist. As for your plans about building a hospital in somalia, an easy first step would be to register at www.takingITGLOBAL.com were you will be able to liase with many dedicated somalis in the diaspora and in somalia as well. All i can say is somalia is need of people like you that are thinking beyound their own selfish intreasts, hey the road may be hard but the view from the summit is worth it.

Ameenah i agree with you 100%, i thought it was just me who feels a sense revulsion when ever i hear about 1,2 or 3 westerners being killed in countries such as liberia, somalia, angola or palestine as if the millions of deaths that have preceded them, and in most cases will follow them, do not rate the column inches. :mad: This is a brother who doesnt remotely give a damn about brits being killed.

www.politicalcompass.org This site was recommended to me as part of a project that I am doing, all I can say is that I am supposed to be an authoritarian leftist, in the same league with Yasser arafat and can you believe it Jacques chirac!!!! GO to the take the test page and lets see if you have an affinity with hitler or chairman mao, are you a right winger like thatcher or a piddly democrat like clinton. It also gives you information about political books in a reading list of authors that espouse your views. In my case Fidel castro and J.K Galbraith :eek:

First of all were is beledweyne!!! I undeerstand peoples need for changes but really. I agree with hornafriques idea , the capital in mogadishu as a sign of continuity with the past and as gesture to the importance of its central role in somali history (lets face it although some post after never ending post that mogadishu is not important to somalia and how it has become a fiefdom, it still is as it always be the crucible of the somali character and the prestige of the somali people), and the legislature and judicariy in other cities, this will be a reflection of a new nation based on checks and balances and a more decentralized form of governance and therefore in the african context economic growth. Here in southafrica the system works very well, with the capital in pretoria, the judiciary in bloemfontein and the parliament in capetown.

It is not funny it is idiotic, and it is also true.

AW isint it lovely how people are giving these girls the ebenefit of the doubt "only allah knows if their muslim or not". Yea but by their fruits you shall know them. They dress like kafiirs, are in a kaffir industry, were you have to act and ergo be a kafiir to succed. Or maybe they structure their concerts around prayer time......oops i did it again....now will have a 30 min break for salaatul isha...then we are gonna play our rendition of that classic...i just want you body to go bump bump bump. Hahaha what a liberal people we have become.

Allah ya rahimu. Now our ********* has been exported into foreign lands. "what is shame it is a fizzy drink that one drinks until ones teeth disentigrate and one pukes" -shame 1983 Salman Rushdie. I wonder when shame will over flow in me. but to be a somali in this day and age.....

hehehe this is umitigated nonsense , for several reasons foremost being that horn afriks coverage of the TNG has been neutral bordering on ambivalent. Secondly as much as would like to accept the twisted cross ownership economic argument (borrowed lock,stock and barell form a U.S congressional report) and al-ittihad ownership of these companies I know that no somali company particularly in the hawala and telecomunications bussiness would ever survive in somalia, if it was seen to even be marginally under the influence of ANY faction, let alone invest in the politics of the nation. Secondly if any one is remotely aware of what the somali "fundamentalists" have been doing over the past few years, they would not ascribe armed conflict to them. Lastly when the TNG was created in Arta every clan, and political intreast attempted to varying degrees of sucsess to influence the newly formed goverment, some were better at it as in all political processes than others, al-islah and al-ittihad being some of the few who have. I think that this article is another example of Cabdilahi yusufs hatred for all islamic forces, forces that very nearly cost him the control of his little fiefdom. By raking up and regurgitating the old bugaboos he is trying as so many have done so before to cast and paint all opposition to his elevation to president in somalia, as fundamentalist or supported by them. Will it work ...i dunno. But it wont work with me.

I repeat it is their country, i mean islamic commission, supreme court DO YOU REALLY THINK THAT THE GIVE A REMOTE DAMN ABOUT A MUSLIMS WOMANS RIGHT TO WEAR HIJAB. PULEEZE. :rolleyes:

Hi dawaco, The religion as OG_moti said is explicit on how to marry a second wife and under what circumstances .

Aslaam aleykum, I have asked GOD's forgivenes, I will use the ramadan period to get the habit of praying one that unfortunatly I had allowed to slip from my life. I intend as well to become a little more indulgent to people I consider f0ols . Consequnetly I will not comment on the people who have changed an intreasting topic into a pissing match. :cool:

Ladies and gentlemen the situation is simple, the lady is wearing a hijab in kafiir country, it offends the sensibilites of the people she schools with, and so they tell her to chose....it has happened in france, germany and so many other countries. The only place were a muslim can pratice his/her faith with out interference is in the muslim ummah. She is and WE are in the wrong country so please can we cut out the righteous indignation, the quran and history both prove that THEY will never be satisfied until and unless we become exactly like them.

Who ever believes that somaliland has seperated has an amazing ability to decieve and delude them selves, but having read your previous posts Ibtilo, i see that comes particularly easily for you

It's a full lifestyle make-over — a make better show where straight guys turn in their pleats for flat fronts, learn about wines that don’t come in a jug and come to understand why hand soap is not a good shampoo (and vice versa). When the journey is done, a freshly scrubbed, newly enlightened, ultra hip man emerges. This is the quote from the programs opening sequences. Some Homosexuals, feminize a straight man into all sorts of ********* .... some scenes, A man is taught how to wear silk pygamas and underwear. Another is taught how to swing his hips and behind, as this shows his coolness and confidence to the :rolleyes: opposite sex Have you watched it and what do you think about it? :confused: But what ever you say i am sticking to poultry news arkansas

themselves along with the Jews, the Chinese and the Indians, when they talk about "intelligence". In general, intelligence is a very general mental capability that, among other things, involves the ability to reason, plan, solve problems, think abstractly, comprehend complex ideas, learn quickly and learn from experience. It is not merely book learning, a narrow academic skill, or test-taking smarts. Rather, it reflects a broader and deeper capability for comprehending our surroundings--"catching on," "making sense" of things, or "figuring out" what to do Hehehe . First of all i wonder how an average I.Q of an entire population is given. More so in the case of somalis were there are no standardiesd national examinations as in the other countries you named. If these tests were taken in the somali diaspora then that would already make it inadmissible as a gauge of peoples average intelligence, due to diffrent educational, language levels, indeed a major bedrock of the I.Q test is the ability to empathise with diffrent situations, a skill you must admit which is easier to come by from a westernised somali than a badiyow. Also i must ask about the appropriateness of the questions asked, a black american researcher once wrote an I.Q test that was felt would be more revelant to an inner city child. A case in point Q. When is mothers day? A. when the welfare check arrives you may find that funny but that is about as relevant as I.Q tests in general and Western I.Q tests structered for westerners are as a gauge of intelligence. Also there is a new breed of I.Q tests that try to find not how intelligent you are, but what intelligence you have. Lastly and i must admit a bit proudly i must state that somalis are very intelligent but only have a very short attention span like I do. Typical comment on report card of somali youth: He/she is innately intelligent ut should pay more attention, I recomend ritalin for your son/doughter