Dr.Hersi Qasim the webmaster of 2garre.com (so his views are well known). But to those who dont know visit and read his manifesto at www.2garre.com Do you think that such a man could succed in the present polarised politics of somalia, or is it just wishfull thinking?

The islamic republic of iran has been accused several times of aiming to develop a nuclear weapon, but this is just part of the countries armed forces drive towards self sufficiency in arms. Not for iran a glorious airforce that they cannot acquire the spare parts needed in times of war. Nor sub-standard machinery that they are forced to purchase hook-line and sinker. Self reliance, autarchy what ever, all MUSLIM and third world countries should follow their lead. These are examples of WHOLLY INDEGENOUS military materiel of iran Takavar all terrain jeeps Zolfaqir 3 tanks . Zelzal 1 tatical missile 1500 km range(yea baby never know when telaviv will wake up to a bowl of sunshine) This light truck is carrying an unknown battlefield-surveillance radar, apparently based on the French-made Rasit, several of which are known to have been captured from Iraq... Fully indegenous T-72 tank complete with reactive armour. Boraq IFV (infantry fighting vehichle) Another "star" of the parade was the Shahab 3 IRBM, which entered service with the IRIAF only recently (Iranian missile forces are controlled by two services: the IRIAF (official air force), and the IRGC (Revolutionary Guards): the IRIAF is known to have a swiftly developing force of ten squadrons equipped with tactical- and intermediate-range ballistic missiles). The Fajr 3 Multiple launch rocket system.

Thank you brother northener for that very informative article. Although we must all ask ourselves why this article is tring to paint Gaddafi as the MOTHER and FATHER of this illigeal and immoral trade? When the immoral and illigel demand for non-welfare and minimum pay demanding labour in europe is the main cause of this trade. And i really doubt the articles assertion that Gaddafi can single handedly stop this trade, when inspite of years of legislation and high tech coastal surveillance and crimnal prosecutions the gangs that "import" these workers are still as efficient in getting them to work and extorting their pay packages. The police are corrupt in libya, really, i would have been shocked if they were not as they are a third world country despite all the oil that flows in to the libyan state exchequer. Imagine any policeman (including european) refusing an average payment of $4000/= per shipload of illigels. I think not. As usual, with every thing in the western press this article must be taken with a healthy dose of skepticism, especialy when they are trying to blame it all on their old Bogey man Gaddafi.

Precisely why we should know in advance what him and his Ilk think about somalia.

Oh why oh why do you roll your eyes sijui-1, is it because buckingham university is not impressive enough? This is someother things Terence Kealy is into: .Member of commonwealth group (cross party foreign policy lobby group) .Member of Institute of strategic studies, in the U.K AND Canada .Ex-oficio member of daily telegraph board of directors and so on and so forth. This is a man who is listend to very carefully by foreign policy gurus in the U.K and is to the conservatives what Richard pearle is to the republicans. You never know what might happen down the road he might be the man who writes the master plan for a play in somalia. http://www.dailytelegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=%2Fopinion%2F2001%2F12%2F20%2Fdo2003.xml

Lt. Gen. Mohammed Said Hersi Morgan, That in my opinion is were things start messing up, we can not expect any peace to be negotiated in somalia, how ever experienced and supportive the mediator if mass murderers such as Morgan are with in spitting distance of the confrence, let alone heading a PEACE delegtion. As for museveni I agree with wind talker, he has been promising to crush an insurgency in the north of uganda, led by the most demonic man the world has ever known for the past 18 years. Also i think he is a bit of an adventurer as shown by the way his country was used to disrupt the unity of a fellow african state the D.R.C so as to povide the west with cheap coltan , diamonds , and timber, for this almot 4,000,000 have died. Admitedly Mr. Musevenis regime has been most helpfull to somali refugees in uganda, even his tribe the ankoles and their cousins the tutsi's believe that they are some how a lost tribe of somalia, and if the do not believe they can be easily convinced so. But as wind talker said in the final analysis as long as somalis are misrepresented, at every meeting by these Kadadif warlords of the likes of the butcher of hargeisa, not even the most patient man in the world will save anything.

Lander what is your point, djibouti took a political descion not to support another mass-array of warlords horse trading and call it a peace confrence, it chose not to support a process that is frustrating the claims of somali civil society. And its withdrawal is a blow to a process that was drawing some legitimacy from djibouti's continued participation, at least now it is obvious to all that care to see that any constiution and settlement drawn up under the aegis of either kenya or ethiopia (and in this case both) will never succeed. And they did it in french.so what. Hey but it is good to know some french speakers on the forum OG_Girl will you ever cease to suprise

Soory sijui-1 that article was written by Terence Kealy vice-chancellor of university of buckingham In the daily telegraph By Ken menkhaus (foreign policy in focus think tank.) Somalia and the U.S. are apparently doomed by fate to collide at critical moments in global politics. The collision has never brought anything but trouble to both parties. We are about to crash into one another again, this time in an expanded war on terrorism. It was Somalia that attacked Ethiopia in 1977, triggering a series of Soviet moves that led to the end of détente between the superpowers and the rise of "Cold War II." Détente, it was said, was buried in the sands of the Ogaden Desert. Somalia was also the graveyard of the new world order. In December 1992, hoping to set a precedent for more robust principles of humanitarian interventionism, the United States chose Somalia as the site of a major peace operation to put a halt to its famine, warlordism, and anarchy. Instead of setting a precedent for humanitarian intervention and post-cold war peace enforcement, events in Somalia nearly destroyed the credibility of UN peacekeeping and ruined the American appetite for international humanitarian operations and nation-building exercises. In the years that followed, the U.S. grew cautious about peace operations, cynical toward multilateralism and the UN, and indifferent toward failed states in the Third World. As for Somalia, our punishment for its impertinence was to pretend it didn't exist. But a decade later, the seemingly inconsequential country of Somalia appears destined yet again to play a major role in American foreign policy. This time, Somalia, which is near the top of the list of our next targets for military action, may become the litmus test for how we define and execute an expanded war on terrorism. What could go wrong in Somalia? Plenty, particularly if we intervene without adequate knowledge of the country's complex politics. One of the costs of ignoring Somalia since 1994 is that we are now caught trying to formulate policy about a country we know virtually nothing about. When information is bad, analysis and policy are likely to be flawed as well. American policymakers need a few important correctives that can prevent our policy on Somalia from descending into a repeat of the debacle of the early nineties. First, Somalia's Islamist movement, Al-Ittihad, is not synonymous with Al-Qaeda, and media insinuations to the contrary are wildly wrong. Al-Ittihad is a small, relatively weak organization, with a mainly domestic agenda. Some individual members have had links to Al-Qaeda that merit close scrutiny, but the group as a whole is in no way a subsidiary of Al-Qaeda. Second, Somalia's Transitional National Government (TNG) is not a front for al-Ittihad, and is not the Somali equivalent of the Taliban government. It is extremely weak, controlling only half of the city of Mogadishu, and while it has some Al-Ittihad members in its parliament, it is by no means a front for violent Islamists. Third, Somalia does not currently harbor active terrorist bases and camps. Somalia's Al-Ittihad movement abandoned the few towns and rural outposts it once controlled, and has since integrated into local communities as teachers, health workers, and businessmen. Bombing abandoned outposts would be a pointless exercise in rearranging rocks. Finally, Somalia is not a likely safe haven for fleeing Al-Qaeda members. Concern about Somalia as a terrorist refuge is understandable. It is a collapsed state with no functional central government; global outlaws there could presumably escape the reach of law. In reality, however, Somalia is a lousy hideout for non-Somali radicals. Foreigners cannot operate in secrecy in Somalia; everyone knows who you are and what you're doing, and locals would not hesitate to expose the presence of non-Somalis in their midst. What does all this mean for an expanded war on terrorism in Somalia? It suggests that the only military action that might be appropriate in Somalia is a limited operation of capturing one or several major suspects. Chasing down minor players in the armed, clannish neighborhoods of Mogadishu would be dangerous and counterproductive. Ideally, U.S. policy toward Somalia should be a combination of close monitoring, surveillance, and naval interdiction--which we are already doing--as well as constructive engagement with Somalia's many local and regional authorities. Somalis are above all else pragmatists, and if presented with the right combination of carrots and sticks--and if treated with respect--will work with us in the war on terrorism. Threatening military moves are not likely to achieve that goal. U.S. policy in Somalia will shed light on whether the war on terrorism is an essentially military campaign, or if we are clever and patient enough as a country to draw on the many tools in our toolbox besides the hammer

Two cultures The mad mullah who shamed us in Somaliland AMERICAN troops are now scouting the al-Qa'eda nests of Somalia. Eighteen US Rangers were murdered in 1993 in Mogadishu, the capital, and America may now settle the score. But, as in Afghanistan, so in Somalia did we Brits precede the Yanks. It was in 1899 that Mad Mullah Mahomed bin Abdillah Hassan declared a jihad. The territory, then known as British Somaliland, was our protectorate, but the mullah wanted us out. The mullah was a precursor of Osama bin Laden. Initially our ally in various tribal skirmishes, he turned on us after he had collected some 5,000 militants. Promising his followers eternal paradise on dying in battle, the mullah wrote to the British vice-consul at Berbera, the local capital: "I like war, you do not." Actually, we British are a violent bunch. We do like war, and by 1904 we had driven the mullah into exile in Italian Somaliland. But in 1909 he returned, bolstered by fresh men and renewed propaganda: "The country is a useless jungle. There are many stones. There are many ant heaps. The sun is very hot." Shamefully, on the mullah's return, we withdrew our soldiers from the interior. But the mullah's cruelties drew us back to re-establish order, and in 1912 the Camel Constabulary marched on him. Yet it took until 1920 - and deaths on both sides - before we eventually rooted him out. He hid in caves, and only after the RAF bombed him did he again retreat into Italian Somaliland. There he died, of the flu. The best account of these campaigns can be found in the Memoirs of Lord Ismay, published in 1960. General Hastings "Pug" Ismay was one of Britain's great military administrators, rising to be Churchill's chief of staff during the Second World War and, later, secretary general of Nato. Churchill wrote that they were friends who "worked for many years hand in glove". Ismay was a decade and half younger than Churchill and, having as a youth read Churchill's books, he modelled his own career on his. Like Churchill, Ismay attended an excellent school (Charterhouse to Churchill's Harrow) and, like Churchill, he was fiercely intelligent. But he was another duffer at exams, so he was reduced to following Churchill into an Indian Army cavalry regiment, then an unintellectual branch of military life. It was on India's unruly North-West Frontier, facing Afghanistan, that Ismay learnt to fight - and where, like Churchill before him, he played much polo. But in 1914 Ismay was sent to Somaliland and, despite his many requests to transfer to France, he was kept there until 1920. It was, though, because he was fighting the mullah and not the Germans that he survived the First World War. On returning to Britain, Ismay discovered that he loved high-level staff work, but despite his eminence he could not save British Somaliland from subsequent maladministration. He was appalled when, in 1940, in the face of Italian aggression, we yet again withdrew our soldiers from the interior to Berbera. There, the Italians overwhelmed us, whereas we could have held out indefinitely in the hills with friendly tribes. We eventually retook the protectorate, but after the war - anxious to shed our imperial burdens - we gave it, remarkably perhaps, to the Italians. They left in 1960. Ismay always felt that, had British rule been maintained without disruption, the region would have been pacified and tribal warfare could have been expunged. If America moves in now, let it show the commitment we did not. Let it prepare for a long involvement, and let it establish the institutions of order, secure government and the rule of law that we failed to implant firmly.

somalis are very intreasting animals, if it is not what you say, when you said it, and why u said its the words you used. I am not being impolite but I think some people are posting here under other names.....cause all this nonsense that seems to survive into 10 pages is the hallmark of some nomads. Anyhoo just a thought i had last night in my bubble bath.....

^^^the number after the one before! This is the ramadan i hope when i will be able to burn the laziness out of my soul, that keeps me from having proper Kushoo in prayer. To the nomad family, may god grant you dhambi dhaaf and a greater understanding of the truth that is the one true religion, during the month of ramadhan.

Hehehehe MMA that brings back the nostalgia big time. Here we started today monday...so RAMADAN KARIIM to every one.

We should not waste anymore time on this weak minded and specious argument, it has neither merit nor is it original. Secondly WHAT do people mean when they say WAHABISIM, my interpretation is that it is a more robust or even stricter intepretation of islam. If that is the case and he has qualms with that then he should convince us using the quran and islamic jurisprudence otherwise. He does not and chooses to create an impression of our religion that is neither helpful nor accurate. He's is a political tract and it should destroyed as such.

The BBC reporter says this means anyone who is not one of the clans originally from Somaliland is likely to be expelled That was intreasting, maybe some of our points that the building of nations on the basis of clan politics will be appreciated. Or maybe proof is not enough.And who will decide which are the original clans?? It is a distinct possibility that the whites were shot so as to undermine one of the main planks of recognition for somaliland namely that peace is no longer a sure thing. Is it only me but HOW will somaliland kick out intheir words OTHER SOMALIS ???????? Maybe Riyale is opening a can of worms ..he cant close. cest la vie

This article is right in warning us from turning into a sort of wahabi colony. It's rather unfortunate some members cannot see the merit of this article because their own political stance is clouding their judgments. Discrediting the author as pseudo-intellectual or claiming he seeks support from the big bad wolf, cause of all somali problems "the Habashis", will not help you appreciate some of the merits of this article. We all have political stances, including the writer of the article, and you do for one as you use the word Wahabi to describe what........... And personaly i dont think that habashis are wolves far from it I believe that they are parasaites that survive on the weakness of their host. Ohhhhhh i guess I didnt read where the article was from ...lol...sorry lander But i dont wish to side track the argument. merits of article

Ladies and gentlemen all I would say is Fareed Zakaria is a staff writer for newsweek magazine, He is neither a friend of muslims or even the individual sovreignties of nations, as he has been one of the main proponents of the war in Iraq the only diffrence is that he is of that type of liberal that observes niceties and thinks they know what is better for you than anything you can think. I am still deciding who in the final analysis does more Harm G.I Joe or mr. Zakaria

Ethiopia helping to reconcile somalis is like , Indians trying to reconcile pakistanis. Who in their right mind would think it is even remotely possible? Ethiopia has got it's intreasts but somalis are the redicoulous ones if they allow ethiopian goverment with in 20 miles of a "peace confrence". :mad: But the problem as oft stated is not the Habashi's it is the somali lakeys they nourish to destroy their own nation.

Although it is true some pepole feel the more archaic the word the better and more impressive ones learning. But i dont think it is the case with brother sophist. I write as i talk, some times i dislike sounding repetetive and use several words for the same thing. And although it is fashionable i dont talk like I was raised in a tupac CD or buckingham palace. But why have you singled out one particular nomad :confused:

Somali wddeings are to expensive people get divorced with in the year and all that is happening is gossip, gossip, gossip. Even if can afford a big wedding i WILL not do it, private affair very close freinds and family members. period. I almost had a stroke AND a heart attack at the same time, when i heard a 7even day affair.

"we all know what happens when you are in the middle of the road.......you get run over"-Harry truman. Unfortunately brother muraad that is the case in this day and age, and we must all defend our religion not with words of equanamity and resonablness but rather with all we can muster, because such people as the writer will use all that they can muster to destroy and corrupt it.

Sallams brother horn afriq General Boykin is a bigot with a ****** name , but that does not in anyway impede his ability to serve a goverment based on bigotry and futher their short sighted aims, why all the hypocrtical hullabaloo in the western press, so what if he thinks he is a christian G.I Joe that is what most of the people who voted his boss in to power want in their generals! And besides the only diffrence between bush and clinton , is that clinton would not have put somebody as free with his opinions in such a position , but having such an opinion would not have impinged on his getting the position.

I am to logical for my own good , I would probably calculate the chances of a lion being in my room, inform it that it does not exisT, ACCORDING TO SEVERAL BOOKS, and hope he lion has rad the same books i have. Alternatively I could always scream like a little b!atch...

Uhmmm..........athena maybe back home to dare i say it somalia? :eek: :eek: :cool: "But no...he is deviating from the script..it is original thinking.

i thought not eating or drinking anything from dusk tilldawn is a pretty effective deiting tool. Walahi I am all ears to the possible responses

THERE HAS ALWAYS BEEN A BODY OF MUSLIM-ISKU-SHEEG WRITERS(CUM INTELLECTUALS FOR SALE) FROM A BLIND EYGYPTIAN SHEIKH CALLED TAHA RAMADAN TO TAHA HUSSEIN IN SUDAN TO SALMAN RUSHDIE IN PAKISTAN AND NAGUIB MAHFOUZ OF EYGPT THAT HAVE TRIED TO VARIOUS AUDIENCES OF WESTERNERS OF VARYING GULLIBILITY, INTIMATE THAT ISLAM AND ALL IT STANDS FOR CAN BE MODIFIED AND RECONSTRUCTED TO SUIT A "CULTURE" AND "MORALITY" THAT PRE-DATES THE ADVENT OF ISLAM IN THEIR COUNTRIES. This is politics that attepts to get political mileage from any issue that can be remotely exploited in the urge to garner support. IN this case "islamic fundamentalism". If you are in doubt the heading of the article is SAUDIZATION OF SOMALIA instead of something like the liberal/permissive/indegionous theological discourse of somalia under threat. I agree with Bulo whole heartedly why does this man attempt to paint the jahiliya of somalis in the 1900's as a Local version of islam (which it was not), we have our traditions that separate us from the Habashis who's help incidentally he is trying to garner, but according to our religion any tradition's, that conflict with islam should be abondoned fut-a-fut. Even this lair of demons called saudia arabia eradicated female infanticide, a long held and widely respected traditon in some tribes. Another thing that always amuses me about all of these intellectual handy job men is how little they know about the religion. So i suggest we leave these pseudo intellectuals to continue with their nonsense. As for the saudia arabia article if it is TRUE and all extenuating circumstances have been brought to bear (was the fire recognized as an inferno, or did the mutaween think that there was enough time to cover the girls) They must be brought to a court of law and chrged with criminal negligence and let tbe thruth be known, and this article like all articles does not clarify the aftermath of the incident.