Bari has pointed out the glaring inconstincies of the article. hornafrique has laid bare the simple clan calculations of the "somaliland" entity, but forgive me if i think it fair to draw the obvious similarities between that and the one of laugh-a-minute "puntland" entity. Gediid has given us a little skit about an ugly sister and the hehehe beautifull one, all though all my mind can think is that he is perhaps refering to all the ugly qabilists with their disgusting illusions spreading falsities about the beautifull somali-weyn sister but as always i am biased am i not. Gediid in the lexicon of somali traditions the most abhorent thing an outsider can do is get involved in a fight between two brothers or two sisters, because as much as they may hate each other eventually the outsider will be rounded against, as somalis say somalidhu waa isku hooyo isku aboow. A revived name and a qabilistan mentality that british coloniolists used to describe and dismemeber somalis will not change that. PERIOD. jeclow ama samadha kaabood. Rayana and xidiga people are not being negative about the many acheivements of the somalis in waqooyi, rather this is a discussion albeit repetitive about waqooyi galbeed seccesion and whether the lastest utterances of a third rate beraucrat has an effect on the case.

Morgan is a mass murderer. As long as somali peace confrence organizers keep on confering recognition to such people under the guise of peace making the longer the civil wars will keep on raging. And the longer such disgusting creations of the all mighty will escape the beheading they deserve.

Ms word said: Oh he is adamant as long as he is the head of the government It is really as simple as that.

Like so many other Somalis, my life in the 1980s was marked profoundly by the terrible human right situation under the regime of Mohamed Siad Barre. I was one of the very lucky ones. I did not live in Somalia at the time, and no-one in my family was killed or maimed when the government unleashed a genocidal frenzy in Somaliland, then the Northwest region of Somalia. Being lucky implied a responsibility: to let the world know what was happening, so it could exert pressure to halt the atrocities. Fortunately, I had just begun my career in human rights as director of the US-based group, Africa Watch. This position gave me a platform from which I could speak and make my contribution. I am, in particular, proud of one book I researched and wrote while at Africa Watch, A Government at War With Its Own People: Testimonies About the Killings and the Conflict in the North, published in New York in January 1990. Unfortunately, the Ethiopian government of the time refused us permission to interview the refugees in the Ethiopian camps. So the research took me to Djibouti and to various cities in the UK which housed men, women and children who had fled Siad Barre’s tactics of terror. I spent months listening to harrowing testimony about a well-planned campaign to eliminate an entire people. It is not possible to do justice to their stories in an article, but this is the picture that emerged. I am writing about this book now, 12 years later, because it has, once again, entered the political arena. Arguing that all Isaaqs were supporters of the Somali National Movement (SNM), the guerrilla movement that sought to drive the government out of the Northwest, life, as we know it, was denied to them in their own homeland from 1981 to May 1988, It became, instead, a succession of human rights abuses. Murder; detentions; torture; unfair trials; confiscation of land and other property; constraints on freedom of movement and of expression; a strategy of humiliation directed at family life, at women and elders; the denial of equal opportunities; discriminatory business practices and curfews and checkpoints became a daily affair. Both urban centres and rural communities were targeted, but it was the nomadic population, regarded as the backbone of the SNM economically and in terms of human resources, which suffered the most. Their men and boys were gunned down, their women raped, their water reservoirs destroyed and people, as well as livestock, were blown up by landmines. In late May 1988, the SNM attacked the towns of Hargeisa and Burao. It was the start of a savage war against ***** civilians which drove most of them into exile in the inhospitable desert of Ethiopia. Instead of engaging the SNM militarily, the government used the full range of its military hardware against unarmed and defenceless civilians, thinking perhaps that the SNM would be too preoccupied with the chaos of mass civilian casualties to fight back effectively. The assault knew no bounds: residential homes were bombed, fleeing refugees were strafed by planes and men, women and children perished by the thousands. Mohamed Said Barre is not alone in his guilt for these crimes against humanity, for which no-one has yet been prosecuted. Some of the other key architects of this policy of annihilation, men like Mohamed Saeed Morgan, Mohamed Hashi Gaani and countless other collaborators, continue to wreak havoc in Somalia. Others, including Mohamed Ali Samater, live in comfortable exile in the United States and elsewhere in the world. And then others are right here in Somaliland. And they include President Dahir Rayaale, who was head of the feared and powerful secret service, the National Security Service (NSS) in Berbera. President Rayaale is named in A Government at War With Its Own People. The town of Berbera saw some of the worst atrocities of the war, even though the SNM never entered Berbera in 1988. Elders and businessmen were immediately arrested en masse after the SNM attack on Hargeisa and Burao; between 27 May and 1 June, they were transferred to Mogadishu. The killings, which were exceptionally brutal in Berbera, began shortly afterwards. Many of the victims had their throats slit and were then shot. A series of massacres which have been mentioned again and again took place, mainly in June, in Buraosheikh, close to Berbera, when about 500 men were killed in groups of between 30-40. Some of the victims were from Burao, Hargeisa and surrounding villages who had come as temporary labourers to the port of Berbera. Others were asylum seekers who had been returned from Saudia Arabia. The names of some of these men are listed in the book. As head of the NSS in Berbera, Dahir Rayaale bears a heavy and direct responsibility for their fate. Witnesses who are alive also recall Rayaale’s contribution to the war against civilians. One of the people I interviewed in Djibouti in August 1989 and who is cited in the book is Abdifatah Abdillahi Jirreh. He was only 14 at the time, but he remembered Dahir Rayaale. One day in mid-August [1988], Dahir Rayaale, head of the NSS, came to our ice plant and took my father away. They also arrested one of the watchmen, an old man, Farah Badeh Gheedi. They were detained in the police station, accused of talking about the prospects of the SNM coming to Berbera. Rayaale is not the only man who has held a senior political position in Somaliland whose conduct of human rights has been questioned. Many former ***** members of the NSS and the HANGASH, the military police that came to exert formidable power over civilians, today occupy key positions in Somaliland in the NSS, re-established in 1995, and the Criminal Investigations Department (CID). The people they tortured, interrogated and spied on, and the people whose loved ones they killed, will, one day, no doubt give their own account. So the issue is not one of clan and community identity, but of individual responsibility for grave injustices. These men, whether they are Isaaqs or non-Isaaqs, must answer for what they did in their political and professional capacity. And the political parties to which they belong must investigate these accusations thoroughly and objectively and respond accordingly. The three political parties who will contest the forthcoming presidential elections—UDUB, Kulmiye and UCID—must ensure that they do not recruit, let alone put forward as candidates, human rights offenders. Since the accusations in the book became a matter of public debate, “witnesses” have gone on television to say that Rayaale actually saved lives. That is not the point; he may well have saved some people, but that does not prove that he did not commit the acts of which he is accused. The case about President Rayaale is especially serious because he is a candidate in the first free presidential elections that the country has known in more than 30 years. He became president, not through the will of the people, but appointed by the House of Elders on the death of the late President Mohamed Ibrahim Egal. But now it is a matter of choice. If he wins, he will remain in power for five years. Justice for the victims is at stake. But so is the future of Somaliland. The crimes of the 1980s is the very reason why Somaliland decided to secede from Somalia in May 1991. The fact that men like Morgan and Gaani retain considerable power in Somalia is a major issue for people in Somaliland. Only a leader whose own hands are clean has the legitimacy to speak for Somaliland on such major questions as the prosecution of war criminals and to represent his people effectively regionally and internationally. The question will be asked: why has it taken so long for this information to be widely disseminated and known, despite the fact that it was documented as early as 1990? There are many factors, the most important of which was the decision taken in May 1991 to pursue a policy of reconciliation in Somaliland. But even then, the leading perpetrators of war crimes were excluded and a committee named to pursue their case. But settling the internal conflicts of the 1990s drained energy that might have been devoted to that task. So justice took a back seat. But with the prospect of electing a president who faces such serious accusations, Somaliland cannot afford to remain silent. Keeping quiet means that tens of thousands of people died for nothing. It means that an entire people became impoverished and stateless refugees for nothing. It means that Hargeisa, Burao, Berbera and other towns became roofless ghost towns for nothing. And it means that any attempt to pursue the likes of Morgan and Gaani will be laughed out of court. It is time to speak out and set the record straight. * Rakiya A. Omaar is the director of the international human rights organisation, African Rights.

Jalle qaxooti every one has the right to vent, but it seems we will have faux arguments about these clan based bantustans for a long while to come. And although i am glad you noticed i tend to disagree with you on one thing, this talk of ferderalism as well as being moraly bankrupt, is nothing but a cover for clan calculations. Nothing latent about it bro.

If a person is educated in islam, and in the dangers of STD'S then all we can as muslims hope for is that the person will use the condom for birth control with his wife. If not well allah S.W.T knows best what men AND women do under the cover of darkness. A person who is afraid of the day of judgement will not commit zina, regardless of the presence of condoms or otherwise.

BRR, ladies and gentlemen i must admit that my ilm is very little compared to the previous posters so i ask that people avoid flaggelateing me if i make a misstep in what i write. A muslim who has become a christian has become an apostate. this beacause he has denied AFTER believing that muhammed S.A.W is the last prophet of allah (S.W.T), scince our religion can bot be believed in, in doses like the western version of evolution, then most clearly the individual has apostased from religion. Also how can one believe in the manifest doctrines of christianity like the god head of jesus (depending on what sect) the patrimony of jesus e.t.c with out being an apostate. So if we agree that the individual is an apostate, then according to our religion the individual is given three chances during a period of confinement ( i am not sure about the length) to revert to islam, if the individual insists on the veracity of his delusions, then people the person must be STONED TO DEATH. Make no mistake about it this is the punishment for an apostate of islam. Now it is debatable who in this day and age can make the ruling on who is an apostate, but i believe, and this is how I understand it, if the individual goes through the procedure for apostasy and the ulamah declare the person to be an apostate, i would be one of the first people to stone the person to death. But obviously if a person after so many oppurtunites to retract their statements does not, then according to the wisdom of the all mighty this all the person deserves. Athena said: This is Preposterous!! You people come up one rediculous post after another these dayz to fuel hate, regionalism, intolerance, fanaticism...you name it - anything negetive Athena i dont know you so i will give you the benefit of the doubt. The person who started this topic felt a need for a disscusion, one at least that has educated me and moved me to look up some information, this is what i hope the islam forum is for. Every one who posts here does not do it out of hate or regionalism :rolleyes: ( how you got this into the equation i have no desire to know)but out of a love our religion and to learn more about it. this hate and fanatisicm you talk about sounds like the western version of islam force fed to the shabaab. Finally you have jumped higher than the sound warrants so what got you so vehement ?

Over simplified but about right.

Yusuf-Garaad - London Madaxweynaha Uganda Yoweri Museveni ayaa qaabbilay Ra'iisal wasaarihii hore ee Soomaaliya, Cali Khaliif Galaydh. Cali Kahliif Galaydh waxaa uu si weyn Madaxweynaha uga mahad celiyey dadaalka uu nabadda ugu raadineyo gobolka harooyinka waaweyn ee Afrikada Dhexe iyo Soomaaliya. Waxaa uu xisbiga talada haya ee Uganda uga mahadceliyey sida isaga loo soo dhoweeyey, sida Soomaalida Uganda deggan loo soo dhoweeyey iyo guud ahaanba Soomaalida musaafarka ku ah Uganda Kulankaas oo ka dhacay guriga madaxtooyada ee Kampala, oo loo yaqaan Nakasero, waxaa uu ahaa kulan uu Cali Kahliif booqasho sharaf ugu tegey Madaxweynaha. Warkan oo laga sii daayay Raadiyaha Uganda, faahfaahin kama bixin sababta kulanka dhacay 23-kii Disembar iyo waxa ay labada mas'uul ka wada hadleen toona. Madaxweyne Museveni waa guddoomiyaha xilligan ee urur goboleedka IGAD, waxaana laga filayaa in 9-ka bisha January magaalada Nairobi uu ka furo wadahadalka dib u heshiinta Soomaalida. Cali Kahliif Galaydh, waa Ra'iisal Wasaarihii ugu horreeyey ee uu magacaabo Madaxweyne Cabdiqaasim Salaad Xasan markii lagu soo doortay shirkii Carta ee sannadkii 2000. Cali Khaliif oo markii dambe xilka laga qaaday isaga oo dalka dibadda uga maqan, waxaa uu ku laabtay Muqdisho si uu xilka u wareejiyo. Taas oo uu ku kasbaday taageerayaal, maaddaama loo soo jeediyey eedeymo kulul oo ay ka mid ahayd in uu nabad dhalin kari waayay. Markii uu xilka warejiyey waxaa uu ku laabtay magaalada Minneapolis ee dalka Mareykanka, halkaas oo ay xaaskiisu deggan tahay. Cali Kahliif waxaa uu hadda wax ka dhigaa Jaamacadda weyn ee Minnesota. Magaalada Minneapolis ee gobolka Minnesota waa magaalada ay ugu badan tahay Soomaalida Mareykanka jooga. BBC.

Ceel-Buur oo lagu diriray Farxiya Cali Qaajo - Muqdisho BBC Wararka naga soo gaaraya magaalada Muqdisho ayaa sheegaya in dagmada Ceel-Buur ee gobolka Galgaduud ay ku dagaallameen malleeshiyooyin ka soo jeeda laba beelood oo halkaa wada dagan. Dagaalkaas oo maanta dhacay ayaa waxaa ku dhintay ugu yaraan shan qof, waxaana ku dhaawacmay dad ka badan shan iyo toban. Wararku waxay intaa ku darayaan in labadan beelood ee maanta ku dagaallamay Ceel-Buur ay hore dagaallo u dhex mareen, iyada oo kii ugu danbeenbeeyay uu dhacay bartamihii bishii hore. Odayaasha dhaqanka iyo siyaasiyiinta labada beelood ka tirsan ayaa ku guuleystay bishii hore in ay joojiyaan dagaalkaas, hase ahaatee, dagaalka halkaa ka soo cusboonaaday maanta, ayaa ku soo beegmay iyada oo odayaasha labada dhinac ay ku howlan yihiin dhameynta khilaafaadka uu markii horeba ka dhashay dagaalku. Xil-dhibaan Cabdi Axmed Dhuxulow oo ka mid ah odayaal waan waan ka dhex waday labada beelood ee is dilay ayaa BBC-da u sheegay in maalinta Arbacada ee soo socota ay odayaasha labada dhinac u balansanaayeen in ay ka wadahadlaan arrimaha dagaalada oo ay hadda ka hor ku guuleysteen in xabad joojin laga sameeyo. Waxaa kale oo uu xidhibaanku ugu baaqay labada dhinac in ay si deg deg ah xabadda u joojiyaan, maadaama dagaalku wax faa'iida ah u lahayn dadka walaalaha ah ee deegaanka ku wada nool. Dagaallada soo noqnoqday ee deegaanka Ceel-Buur ayaa la sheegyaa in uu markii ugu horeysay ka bilowday ceel ay xoola dhaqatada labada beelood ka wada cabbaan.

NAIROBI, 22 Dec 2003 (IRIN) - Inter-clan fighting in Somalia's central Galgadud region has left over 2,000 families displaced and the numbers are growing, local sources told IRIN on Monday. Dr Ahmed Madhi, who works at the hospital in the regional capital Dusa-marreb, said the health situation was critical and facilities were overwhelmed by casualties of the fighting. "The hospital [in Dusa-marreb] does not have the equipment, drugs and the expertise to treat the number and type of wounds we are receiving," he said. "We have no surgeon and not enough drugs for patients." He appealed to aid agencies to come to the assistance of the victims "and to save lives". A statement issued by the UN on Monday said fighting between rival militia of the ******* and *** (***********sub-clan), had left an estimated 400-500 households displaced in Heraale, Abudwaaq district. A further 1,100 households had fled fighting between the ********and ******** clans in Elbur district, added the statement by the Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs. It described the humanitarian situation as serious. "I urge the conflicting parties to refrain from further fighting, resolve their differences peacefully and to ensure that the rights of civilians are fully respected,” said Calum McLean of UN-OCHA (Somalia). He added that humanitarian workers must be allowed "unrestricted and safe access" to the affected people. The majority of the displaced are said to be women, young children and the elderly. The fighting has also led to the destruction of houses, berkads (water stores), and the looting or killing of livestock, the UN statement said. Mediation efforts on the part of elders and religious leaders from neutral clans have so far failed to resolve the dispute, but are said to be continuing.

this was a very intreasting article. I mean to be a nomad. :eek: pakistan

by the way why do you inssit on calling riyale a colonel and talking about his militia causing problems in puntland? the only colonel and head of a militia under grand names is INA YEY. and besides although these two feifdoms have issues over sool and sanaag it is still very debatable who controls what dried up well. The crows of a tribal partition of somalia are coming home to roost. period.

this is pathetic, but i should be carefull because these are so called somali leaders and how more pathetic are we?

lol ayoub, inapti you are one tactless person.

I hope this does not come to pass. Libax i am also very intreasted in where all this war talk is bubbling up from. Always in warlord politics there is one warlord or other that is threatening the other forcefully, it just seems to me i missed this fracas. But i have already stated my case on these two fiefdoms and thier warlords, all i can hope for is that the afmiinsharin that would benefit from such hostilities mess up their plans, for allah (s.w.t) is the one who plan's and who plans better than he?

AYOUB said: As you are SOL's own in-house doctor I don't need to tell you being up-tight in one end and retentive in the other is not healthy for you, do I? Afar jeeble yasha hargeisa baa sual kas kaa jawabi karaa. But anyways once it comes to collaborators and where did siyads money go it think the most appropriate answer is dawashoo iyo ceeb baynu wadhaa qabnaa

ya allah, why do we have to drag out every argument, the point i was making as precisley as i can, is that as works of art and poetry they are indeed wonderfull, but none of us should make the mistake of deriving our politics from this in the final analysis qabil haraunges, lest we fall in to the trap of siyad and his cronies like dafle et al, who used this expired poetry to reconstitute clan animosity and warfare, with the added condit that whilst people used to kill each other with blunderbusses all THIS generation can expect is to be packed into containers and provide moving targets for AA guns.

tehehehe some people must be thinking they are in the running for political office. , but an iska amuuso before people look up MY profile.

i thought raghad hussein was the daughter!

Edititorial from somaliland times. Knowing ethiopians and having watched their entire game plan un-fold, somaliland is being used, pity that the editor is grabbing at straws Somaliland-Ethiopian relations are often described as good. However nobody can tell how good these relations are. The question often asked is: are the ties between the two countries strong enough as to equally satisfy the basic needs and aspirations of both sides? Many Somalilanders do not think so. Rather, they feel that the relations between the two countries are strongly tilted in favor of Ethiopia. Because of its genuine desire to have a peaceful and mutually beneficial relations with Ethiopia, Somaliland has earned the animosity of certain quarters inside and outside this region that furiously appose Ethiopia. The Al-Itihad-ONLF alliance, nurtured and supported by the forces of international terror, is one good example of such quarters. This alliance, as the ONLF chairman, Mr. Mohamed Omar Osman, pointed out during an interview with him by the BBC Somali Services on Tuesday, has always viewed Somaliland’s cooperation with Ethiopia on security matters as constituting a major stumbling block against their plans. Somaliland is also being victimized by totalitarian Arab regimes, particularly those of Egypt, Djibouti, Saudi Arabia, Libya and Syria, not only for having withdrawn from the 1960 union with Somalia but also for taking a pro-Ethiopian stance since declaring independence in 1991. Driven by extremist ideologies, greed and the desire to exercise hegemony over others, the above Arab governments are working over-time on various schemes to force Somaliland to rejoin Somalia. For Egypt, the re-emergence of a strong Somalia state (to be made up of Somaliland and Somalia) would give Egypt an ally on the Eastern border of Ethiopia, in case of conflict between Ethiopia and Egypt over the waters of the Nile. The Saudi involvement serves to deflect criticism that the kingdom's wealthy rulers do not care about poor Arabs. It is also an opprotunity for Saudi Arabia not to cede Arab leadership to Egypt, with the added advantage that there are no real costs to be paid. For Djibouti, opposing Somaliland’s independence means getting more money from Saudi Arabia and other oil-rich Gulf States. The Bathist regime in Syria supports the concept of greater Somalia because paying lip service to Arab unity is part of its strategy of survival. For Qadafi, recognition of Somaliland as sovereign state would seem a bad omen for starting his grand project of seeking the creation of the Union of African states. Most of Somaliland's people harbor feelings of gratitude towards Ethiopia because of the support it gave to Somaliland’s liberation struggle during the eighties, when other Somalis were trying to slaughter as many Somalilanders as possible. Ethiopia hosted hundreds of thousands of Somaliland refugees who lived there after fleeing genocide. The present Ethiopian government which has been in power since 1991, has shown sympathy and understanding toward Somaliland's quest for recognition. But despite all of these positive factors, there is growing disappointment among Somalilanders about the Ethiopian government's reluctance to widen the scope of relations between the two countries beyond the current level that is largely confined to cooperation on security matters. Somalilanders cannot understand why the same Ethiopian government which allowed Eritrea to secede and become independent is not forthcoming when it comes to recognizing Somaliland, which from a strictly legal standpoint, has a stronger case for being recognized as sovereign state. There is no doubt that Ethiopia itself has frequently come under external pressure to persuade it against going ahead with Somaliland’s recognition. Somalia's warlords such as Abdiqasim Salad Hasan never seem to tire of accusing Ethiopia of trying to dismember the non-existent state of Somalia. But while Somaliland has not relented in the face of external pressure, the Ethiopian side has comparatively shown a tendency of yielding to blackmail at the expense of its long-term strategic interests in the region. Hence the new argument now that Somaliland could perhaps be better off if it took a neutral position with regard to regional affairs. Proponents of this argument view the Somaliland-Ethiopian security cooperation as an arrangement that tends to serve one side’s interests – Ethiopia’s. They cite the assassination attempt carried out in Las-Anod by Abdillahi Yusuf against Somaliland's President, Dahir Rayale Kahin, as a typical example of the Ethiopian government’s insensitivity towards Somaliland’s concerns. They argue that Abdillahi Yusuf who is fed, clothed and armed by Ethiopia should have received a harsh response from the Ethiopian government. The Ethiopian government’s decision to close informal trading activities at the border, towards the end of last year, has also made many Somalilanders even more confused as to the real intentions of the Ethiopian side. And in the aftermath of the recent arrests of ONLF fighters in Hargeisa, the question being widely asked these days is why should Somaliland bother itself with the security of anyone, when everyone else, especially its neighbors, are unwilling to recognize and respect the basic aspirations of Somaliland's people to be the masters of their destiny and live in peace in their own independent country. It is in Ethiopia's interests that this new argument does not become the dominant one in Somaliland; and the best way to ensure that it does not, is to start addressing Somaliland's concerns

Wixii la qoraa quruumo hadhee, muxuu hadal qiimo leeyahay . guraad that was intreasting, atleast i appreciated it with out paying heed to the political overtones and just as a work of art, i hope that did not defeat your purpose. i can see where you get your politics from.

"He is a man inebriated with the exuberance of his own verbosity" -churchill said it best

WASHINGTON—According to the results of an intensive two-year study, Americans living below the poverty line are "pretty much ****ed," Center for Social and Economic Research executive director Jameson Park announced Monday.Although poor people have never had it particularly sweet, America has long been considered the land of opportunity, where upward class mobility is hard work's reward," Park said. "However, our study shows that limited access to quality education and a shortage of employment opportunities in depressed areas all but ensure that, once ****ed, an individual tends to stay ****ed." According to U.S. Census Bureau statistics, 34.6 million Americans were living below the poverty line in 2002. "Not only are the down-and-out ****ed, but the number of down-and-out ****s is growing," Park said. "Conditions of disadvantage are often passed from one generation to the next, making it especially difficult for young people to emerge from the cycle of poverty." "Man, my heart goes out to those poor ******s," Park added. America's increasingly rigid class system worsens the situation for the poor. "After analyzing the economic performance of U.S. households over the past several decades, we concluded that class mobility, while steady in the '70s and '80s, declined in the '90s," Park said. "About 40 percent of families ended the decade in the same economic strata in which they began it. That's up from about 35 percent in the '80s. That's good news for those sittin' pretty, but it spells '**** you' to the poor." As a result, Park said, there are more poor people, and those poor people are much more screwed than poor people were a decade or two ago. "As the split between the upper and lower classes grows, and the middle class continues to shrink, we're moving closer and closer to what can only be called a 'no way out, dude. Sorry, you're ****ed'-type situation," Park said. "Not only are the poor ****ed at the moment, but any chance they once had of changing their miserable lives is pretty much gone, too. Essentially, they're ****ed for all time." The CSER study identified four major poverty groups within the U.S. The first two groups—one composed of disenfranchised blue-collar workers, the other made up of members of poor rural populations—have been adversely affected by the nation's gradual shift to a technology-based, global economy. Researchers have dubbed disenfranchised blue-collar workers the Factory ****ed, while members of poor rural populations are called the Farm ****ed. Park characterized the individuals in these two groups as "****ed from the get-go." The other two rapidly expanding groups of poor ****s are the suburban poor, whose members can't afford the rising cost of such basic necessities as healthcare, and the urban underclass, whose members are found in the nation's troubled inner cities. Researchers termed these groups the Recently ****ed and the Utterly ****ed, respectively. Economist Harold Knoep said there's little reason for sympathy. "In a healthy capitalist economy, some people are going to be out-competed," Knoep said. "I'm sorry, but some of those **** -ups have ****ed themselves. I am not condoning an anarchic '**** or be ****ed' ethos, but I can hardly get behind a welfare state that punishes the un****ed by ******* all equally." While he expressed concern for the nation's poor, House Speaker Dennis Hastert (R-IL) said increased funding for social programs isn't the answer. "Nobody's saying poor people aren't ****ed," Hastert said. "But what about all the people in this great nation who are not ****ed? If the financial resources of the economically stable are diverted—through some well-intentioned but fiscally irresponsible social-service program—to the people who are ****ed, where does that leave those who were sailin' along fine? ****ed." Ed Cranston, an under-employed, Detroit-area machinist who made $14,000 last year, said he was not surprised by the report. "They say I'm ****ed?" Cranston asked. "Shit, man, tell me something I don't know." YOU DO KNOW THIS IS FROM THE ONION DONT YOU. BUT HOW VERY ********* TRUE. :cool: [ December 20, 2003, 06:26 AM: Message edited by: Libaax-Sankataabte ]

Fedral somali as envisioned by hiiran.com I thought that any fedral system was going to be based upon the present 18 provinces, also how comes some provinces have been demarcated and wont this demarcation process cause even more problems?