Perhaps meeting up with the muslim brotherhood there would set you on the right track

Proverbial muck hitting the fan

^^ We posted the same topic at the same exact time....dont we win something?

the deadline keeps on moving Friday, November 28, 2008 MOGADISHU, Somalia (AP) — Ethiopia announced Friday that it will withdraw its forces from Somalia by the end of the year, leaving this country's weak and fractured government to face an increasingly powerful Islamic insurgency. Ethiopia — the region's military powerhouse — has sent thousands of troops to support Somalia's U.N.-backed government, which has failed to assert control over the country. The decision adds urgency to the Somali government's long-standing request for international peacekeepers to deploy here. "Regardless of what happens, we have decided to withdraw our troops from Somalia at the end of year," Ethiopian Foreign Ministry spokesman Wahide Bellay said Friday in a telephone interview from Addis Ababa, Ethiopia. Somali President Abdullahi Yusuf has asked for a U.N. peacekeeping force to replace a small African Union force that has largely been confined to its bases in the capital because of the violence. AU peacekeepers have struggled to maintain security, with only 2,600 of the mission's approved 8,000 troops on the ground. The U.N. Security Council has said that, if Somalia can improve security and political reconciliation, it would consider sending U.N. peacekeepers to replace AU forces. On Friday, Wahide urged the international community to send peacekeepers, but said Ethiopia would not wait any longer for such a force to be assembled. Rashid Abdi, a Somalia analyst at the International Crisis Group think tank, said the Ethiopians may have decided to seal the border with troops and air power. "T hey can ... continue to make military incursions across the border without troops on the ground who will be open to attack ," he said. Somalia's transitional government was formed in 2004, but then lost control of the capital, Mogadishu, and most of the south to Islamic militants. In December 2006, it called in troops from neighboring Ethiopia to help retake control. But the insurgency remains a disruptive force and a threat to Yusuf's government. A worsening humanitarian crisis has been fueled by drought and high food prices. Ethiopia is a key U.S. ally and the Pentagon sent a small number of Special Operations troops with the Ethiopian forces in 2006. In early 2007 the U.S. conducted several airstrikes in an attempt to kill suspected al-Qaida members. Ethiopia is a traditional rival of overwhelmingly Muslim Somalia. It has large Christian and Muslim populations as well as one of Africa's largest armies, which many Somalis see as abusive and heavy-handed. Al-Shabab, which means "the Youth," mounts almost daily mortar attacks, suicide bombings and ambushes. SOURCE: AP, Friday, November 28, 2008

"Maxaad Afrika uga goosateen oo uga durugsan tihiin?" Actually I think that would be his first reason.

^^^ Suldaanka expect alot of things to change on this forums, expect more of naxar's reasoning to resound where only support for the TFG prevaded. What naxar is trying his damn best to not say is that nothing has changed but the man at the top, consequently his support for the TFG has changed. [that is if yusuf is actually replaced].

^^intreasting i would like to know why you think he will get parliaments support, since the current crop will keep their seats and their allowances i would think it would not matter either way what do you think ya juje?

It was not a graduate who passed away near ramadan hotel but the head of the SOS hospital in mogadishu.

How will that number of mp help bring about peace in somalia may any one explain?

How will that number of mp help bring about peace in somalia may any one explain?

^^ ha ha got to watch it it would have been nice to have seen more on the social and economic and more on the other towns, also i think dualeh should really be left to articulate somali land issues

This is guy has issues, he is nothing but a troll out to give his life some meaning, do not play along ignore him and he will disappear as a figment of our collective imagination!

^^^ Surely there is no difference! I have never understood the somalilanders predilection for accusing a punt lander of collaboration ism when the art has been perfected by riyale and his ex-NSS cohorts! I get that you guys have issues over sool and sanaag, but this extrapolation and abuse you guys hurl at each other, over the prostate body of the rest of somalia, while both of you in one way or another either in ideology or practice step on the writhing body of somali unity, while screaming look look you are stepping on his trachea surely you deserve more blame is pathetic. But then if you understood irony you would not be secessionists or collaborationists.

Locals flee as soldiers are deployed in El Wak Updated 14 hr(s) 56 min(s) ago By David Ochami and Cyrus Ombati Hundreds of residents of El Wak and Mandera towns are fleeing in fear of clashes between Kenya’s armed forces and Islamist militiamen. The militiamen, who captured neighbouring town of Bulla Xawa in Somalia, took control of the town on Tuesday night, as authorities in Kenya imposed a dawn to dusk curfew. At the same time, officials denied reports that the army entered Hadija Aminow town in Gedo region in pursuit of militiamen holding two kidnapped Italian nuns and a driver. Kenya has accused radical Al Shabab militia of kidnapping the nuns but its spokesman Mukhtar Ali Robow denied the claim. North Eastern PC Josephat Maingi said many people were fleeing to Wajir. "We are encouraging people to return to their homes. They have been moving away fearing an operation by security forces," he said. A local resident said some residents of Mandera town fled towards Malka Suftu, the hinterland and into Ethiopia. Maingi said the local population was fleeing because of rumours they would be brutalised by police and soldiers. "In view of the security situation, we imposed a 6pm to 6am curfew in El Wak and Mandera," said Maingi, who also disclosed that overnight clashes raged in Somalia’s Gedo region on the border with Kenya. Maingi said there was heavy fighting between militia groups in Bula Xawa [in Gedo] on Tuesday night. According to independent accounts from security sources and residents of El Wak and Mandera, remnants of the defunct Al Ittihad Al Islam now allied with Al Shabab; ousted militiamen allied to Somalia’s weak Transitional Federal Government TFG and seized a huge arms depot from them on Tuesday. Fresh intelligence The sources also said close to 3,000 police and army forces, including support brigades with light and heavy weapons, had been deployed around El Wak since the weekend. They include military forces from the Engineering and Paratrooper Battalions from Isiolo as well as the special Administration Police detachment called the Rapid Deployment Unit from Nairobi. Reports show the Kenyan forces are acting on fresh intelligence that Al Shabab is moving forces towards Gedo on from Somalia’s Kismayu and Baidoa towns following new arms supplies and growing resentment over Kenya’s secret involvement in Somalia. Maingi said the Italian nuns and driver are still alive somewhere near Mogadishu. He said negotiations between Kenyan and Somalia elders for their release were continuing on Wednesday. Militiamen captured the victims last week. Internal Security Minister George Saitoti has given them an ultimatum to return the victims or face military action. Meanwhile Al Shabab is said to be moving towards El Wak and Mandera to defend their country after being accused of the kidnapping.

^^^ Brother are you still waiting for godot? The kenyans have staitioned close to 3,000 troops in el-waq backed up with support brigades and anti-tank helicopters [MD-500 Defenders which are the only ones I have seen in the kenyan arsenal], it seems that the kenyans want to blood their troops who have not seen any action since the 1982 coup attempt. Expect an incursion in to gedo region as some sort of police action.

It seems kenya is going to invade somalia real soon either way the two catholic nuns, in gedo need to be returned

I again I do not care about alshabaab or the UIC or mohamed Aideed or galmudug state or puntland or somaliland or RRA land, their policies, strategies, and tactics evoke my feeling in only one aspect will they bring peace, even if it means the stamping down of all opposition through the instict of self preservation? TFG has failed even in this Brother Xiin, your intentions are good but let this contemptible fraud die, and with hope how ever weak look forward to new realities and new caravans with this carcass out of the way.

^^^ Nice very succinct. Firstly the TFG is an instrument whose only usefulness lies in its international recognition as envisioned by the Ethiopians in their creation of this entity to agree to their terms in all issues, as well as the warlords and Afar jebeleyal who participated in its creation in the hopes of accessing the western inflows of aid and thereby legitimacy ala the siyad barre regime in the late 80's. International recognition is at the very best tenuous and shallow and ebbs away if it were not for the frantic efforts of the good intentioned sheikh. while indeed the ability of Somalis to come together and agree on a way out of the current impasse is not congintent on the existence of the TFG the insistence on this precondition by the good intentioned is what I found remarkable. "The support it has from Somalia's regional enemies does not preclude Somalia from moving forward with the resolution of its own internal divisions." There shall be no resolution of the somali impasse that will be genuine and long lasting with the proxies of Ethiopia and Kenya at the table, expecially when theu bear the mantle of a legitimate goverment, how ever much the good intentioned would like to ignore this the facts of 18 years of at times blatant and always present manipulation of the somali dilemma by ethiopia in particular will not allow any genuine reconciliation shall occur in somalia. As for the UIC the Shabaab e.t.c my only concern is how much closer they bring us to the somali polity we search for rather than the details of battle here and there. The road to hell is paved with good intentions if that is to abstract a notion resuscitating the TFG certainly is.

Tfg for some is AY. I, for one, however don’t think so. I think it's a political arrangement that's only legitimate in the eyes of those who invested time and money in it. Jalle Xiin there has always been a very big weakness in the arguments you put forward for the peace caravan, from your "peace is the only option" which is perfectly justifiable to Baashi's "the alternative is worst", the weakness has always been the lack of understanding on what the TFG is. The transistional federal goverment was created by and for those that wish to destroy the very essence of somalinimo , be they warlords or the ethiopians and kenyans. A such they have failed in every single reasonable and legitimate yardstick that might be used to measure their success in establishing even a modicum of governance with in the little village of baidoa let alone the whole of somalia. THOSE that have invested time and money in it as you say not only do not WANT peace but rather cannot HAVE peace as it is an existential threat to what they are. From the beginning I have said neither Nuur or SHARIF CAN DELIVER however much we might want that to be the case walaal. This particular peace caravan is derailed, to get of it and reflect on why and start another is the preeminent need rather than wasting mental power we have on wearing gradma's clothes in the hopes she will wake up. To paraphrase brother but this struggle against the TFG is one of centralisation and somalinimo against daba*****nimo and decentralization of the very somali psyche that baashi refers to as a self evident with out referring back to its causes. Xiin and Baashi those of us who beleive in a just and united somalia under islam and equality are marching in a compact group along a precipitous and difficult path, some of us in somalia under the boom of mortar and some of us in cyberspace and in mobilizing public opinion, firmly holding each other by the hand. We are surrounded on all sides by enemies, those who are clannists and those who are afar jeeble, and we have to advance almost constantly under their fire. I beleive we have combined, by a freely adopted decision, for the purpose of fighting the enemy in this case the TFG but in all cases a particular mindset, and not of retreating into the neighboring marsh of pointless compromise to our very principles, the inhabitants of which, from the very outset, have reproached us with having separated ourselves into an exclusive group and with having chosen the path of struggle instead of the path of conciliation. And now some among us begin to cry out: Let us go into the marsh! And when we begin to shame them, they retort: What backward people you are! Are you not ashamed to deny us the liberty to invite you to take a better road!Calling us at time cyber jihadis and cyber waranles Oh, yes, gentlemen! You are free not only to invite us, but to go yourselves wherever you will, even into the marsh. In fact, we think that the marsh is your proper place if you do not see what is so blatantly obvious, and we are prepared to render you every assistance to get there. Only let go of our hands, don’t clutch at us and don’t besmirch the grand word freedom, for we too are “free” to go where we please, free to fight not only against the marsh, but also against those who are turning towards the marsh!

"Now if you said you are blaming the '*****' tribe, that's understandble. I don't mind being blamed for trying to revive the somali republic." Hehehe that is called a double bind like asking a girl for her home or mobile number when she hasnt even agreed to give you her number [ November 21, 2008, 12:12 AM: Message edited by: Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar ]

Jaale Xiin I posted the above before you posted yours, I was not referring to the puntland or somaliland, I have had only a passing intreast in bantustans. I get it for your peace caravan to succeed some sort of negotiation must take place as the swahilis might say sawa sawa. But perhaps another scenario is the TFG just curling up and dying.

A&T that is the crux of the matter isnt it, the concept of blame, well where does the blame stop and where does it start in the first place, does it start in 1959 when the head of the education department decided to award the three protectorate scolarships to the scuola superiore to his sub-clan member there by planting the first seeds of the resentment in the hearts of those who lost out? When does it end with the last ethiopian soldeir crossing the border at ferfer or when payback is made? Which crimes are more criminal? the rape of a somali girl in xamar as her family flees to kenya in 1991 or the rape of a girl in xamar as her family flees to afgoye in 2008? Finnaly to whom do we assign blame? the clan as a whole as per your formula, or individuals with in the clan who might have benefited? Forgive me brother, but I have heard this reasoning hundreds of times from a myriad of different clan members in a myriad of accents, with a myriad of emotional tones applied, there are those who think this way as they vividly recount personal experiences or trauma's and those that such your self considering assigning blame on the basis of "abstract" and deductive reasoning in the end brother.. waar eebow canaanta iska daaf, waynu wadha kaabna daawasho iyo ceebe! It is odd why this emphasis on the TFG and who gives a damn about abdullahi yusuf anyway, even the cheerleaders are having their power naps and redbulls, awoowe xiin? what/who is their to negotiate with if not the woyane enemy as I have always said?

By Mark John Wednesday, November 19, 2008 BRUSSELS, Nov 19 (Reuters) - The world has no appetite for dealing with Somalia's chronic insecurity despite rushing naval ships to patrol the pirate-infested waters of the Horn of Africa nation. Concern is growing in Europe and Africa over the risk to regional stability from the country dubbed "Africa's Iraq", while Washington has long feared a return to power by local Islamist insurgents could make it a haven for al Qaeda allies. But the widespread pessimism over the prospects of any peace process, the lingering trauma from disastrous past interventions, and the need to put out fires elsewhere -- from Afghanistan to Congo -- have snuffed out any real will to act. "There are no discussions in NATO on dealing with what is the root cause -- which is political instability," an alliance spokesman said of an Islamist insurgency against the forces of the internally-divided Somali government and Ethiopian allies. A similar silence rings out in the corridors of the United Nations, the European Union and the Pentagon, still haunted by the death of 18 U.S. soldiers in a 1993 battle which marked the beginning of the end of an earlier U.S.-UN. force. "I don't know of anyone talking about U.S. military intervention in Somalia," said one U.S. defence official. "We're watching it. But the approach has been strictly hands off. We've got enough things going elsewhere." The U.N. Security Council has formally asked Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon to step up contingency planning for a peace force to replace the under-resourced 3,000-strong African Union operation and monitor an Aug. 18 peace deal. But with opposition hardliners dismissing the accord and the violence raging unabated, a push by South Africa and Italy for such a U.N. mission has been blocked by Britain and the United States, who argue there is simply no peace to keep. "At least in Congo there was a political process we could latch onto," said one EU official of the 27-member bloc's engagements in the Democratic Republic of Congo in 2003 and 2006 before the recent bout of violence. CATCH 22 The inaction is striking when compared to the rush by NATO, the EU, India and others to send warships and patrol boats to protect valuable goods from agile and heavily-armed pirates in one of the world's busiest commercial shipping lanes. The capture of a Saudi tanker with a $100 million cargo of oil, the biggest ship ever hijacked, has brought renewed world attention. Since it was seized at the weekend, three more ships have been captured and India's navy has destroyed a pirate boat. NATO -- which argues that its patrols have been vital to safeguarding World Food Programme (WFP) aid shipments to an estimated one million internally displaced Somalis -- says it is ready to examine extending its counter-piracy effort next year. That will run alongside a similar EU operation. But analysts say the scope is minimal for deeper European engagement onshore. "The anti-piracy operation is a first aid operation," said European Policy Council senior analyst Shada Islam. "At the moment the EU does not seem to have the appetite or the tools or the means to take on a massive exercise like that to try to solve the endemic internal problems of Somalia." The way ahead will at best be a long, slow haul. The U.N. Security Council has promised to consider a U.N. peace operation "subject to political process and improvement in the security situation" -- a position which risks creating a Catch 22 trap of permanent inaction. Repeated EU declarations have for months stressed backing for the peace drive under U.N. envoy Ahmedou Ould-Abdallah. The bloc is also helping to fund the AU mission and has earmarked 216 million euros of development aid through to 2013. "Our action is largely palliative at the moment. We could do more if there was a viable political process -- which is not the case here," said the EU diplomat. The U.S. military has in recent years used aircraft to strike al Qaeda suspects in Somalia. Yet if Pentagon officials say privately the prospect of American boots on the ground is very unlikely while President George W. Bush remains in office, many desperate Somalis are pinning their hopes on his successor Barack Obama. But with Obama expected to focus more U.S. military and foreign policy clout on solving the Afghanistan conflict, analysts and diplomats warn against expectations of a quick fix from him either. SOURCE: Reuters, Wednesday, November 19, 2008

why? Why do you insist on that when the realities on the ground minute by minute disprove that notion? Why are you insisting on covering up that cabals blushes? Really?

^^^ As atavastically enjoyable it is to watch this self flagellation by some, I have to say A&T that the blight in Somalia has nothing to do with any particular clan but rather with a mindset found across all somali groupings and clan federations, no one owes any one anything on a "clan" level but only the genuine urge for individual somalis to reconcile at all levels will be the panacea if there is any of the somali problem. The genocide in somalia was prepetuated across clan lines by the strong against the weak, that is the common denominator, somali society was one based on strength purely and the upper hand negating all other principles of somali society or somali culture. In that all somalis are culpable trust me even if the all that you wrote above was done the results will be the dismal same old the time factor only being up for intepretation. Abdirazaq/abshir/jama these are men who if they were elected at mbagathi would have been accorded all honour in mogadishu and else where for they were recognised as just men and trust me mogadishu would have supported them over a yalahow, aideed, or botan isse. Finally A&T consider this a people get the leadership they deserve, that time it was barre but it could have been Gabeyre, today it is yusuf but it could have been Feisal waraabe.