Wow people actually drink water and eat dates for afur? Thank God I have a well functioning digestive system alhamdulillaah, I can eat anything I want and not gain tremendous amount of weight. For those of you watching your weight: I just had a slice of very delicious cheesecake mmmm and I fully enjoyed it

I was in a hotel in Cairo with my sisters, and I was the only one wearing abaya. God knows how many disgusting looks I received from men, especially much older men! I just kept thinking to myself "what the hell is wrong with these people, have they been kept in cages?" Apparently only hookers wear abayas to hotels! I watched a documentary about prostitution in the Arab world, on BBC World I think. From what I understood from that documentary, it really isn't uncommon. The title of this thread is just beyond provocative, though.

What does the internet think about feminism? NEGATIVE: 32.2% 1,768 results POSITIVE: 65.1% 3,573 results DON'T CARE 2.6% 144 results

Originally posted by Johnny B: Firstly, it only takes you few scrolling up to the very answer of why a lack of belief in something doesen't neccessarily mean having Faith in the opposite. Are you referring to your bad analogy? More importantly , Theists don't believe in Gods just because Atheists can't disprove their existence, for that would mean , they have faith in the existence of all the things Atheists can't disprove, and those things are many, to mention one.. i'd say Atheists can't disprove the existence of say a Black swan, Do you worship and have Faith in its existence?, you see where beliving in something just because others can't disprove it's existence leads to?!. You just aren't any good with analogies, are you? I don't know whether you actually understand that you're essentially arguing FOR us. It is true that we don't believe in God just because atheists can't disprove His existence - which would mean we have a good reason to believe in Him. I mean, like you almost concluded, why else don't we run around worshipping black swans? * Just the thought of Alle Ubaahne praying to the almighty Johnny coulden't disprove his existence is killing ... I strongly believe that he has his Faith based on his own conviction ** Yeah, that just didn't make any sense... Just like the rest of it.

Hey S Redemption is a fantastic film and has one of the best endings in film history! Titanic! We all knew what was coming, but it was superbly executed. It could have gone horribly wrong. Casablanca. "Don't lets ask for the moon, we have the stars", cue Max Steiner's superb score. - LOL! I love this film. The Strange Loves of Martha Ivers. The list is too long. What about best beginnings? Watchmen - which was unwatchable garbage for most parts- has one of the best openings ever.

LOL @ Canjeex. Roobleh, they should conduct a study about the germs lurking in bathrooms with fitted carpets. Who the hell seriously fits a carpet in a bathroom? Who does that? Why? Also what's up with separate taps for hot and cold water? This is the 21st century for God's sake!

A.Z Malfoy was the best thing in the film, the beauty of him turning to the dark side unwillingly... He is definitely far more interesting than that "You're-the-chosen-o ne-Harry-He-is-the-c hosen-one-I'm-the-ch osen-one" Harry Potter. I agree that Dumbledore's death was "meh". Somali'centric LOL @ you! When one is tired & hungry, one ends up laughing at everything, we thought it was pretty satanic in some scenes. We were looking at the props to find hidden signs and messages referring to secret societies lol. We did find the owl but that was fairly obvious! Yes, this is our view of having fun at the movies! We also couldn't stop laughing at Helena Bonham Carter whom we thought did a cameo 'cause she looked and hissed exactly like her off-screen persona! Btw I didn't say the film was lousy, I said the acting was! Its a mystery how these kids can do acting for 6 years and still not get it. But the biggest mystery of all? I couldn't work out why anybody would fancy that unattractive red-hair Ron over the hot athletic guy! P.S. They cast plenty of black people this time round.

Originally posted by Nin-Yaaban: ...and how can I forget all the rest of the girls here, KK, Val, and GG. They all seem cool, even if we have our little disagreement here on the boards, I enjoy and look forward to reading their postings here. Aww I like your posts too,

Sorry for the provocative title. Just as it happens so, I saw Harry Potter last night with my cousin and we were friggin' shocked at how insanely dark this supposedly youth franchise was! Also we were laughing at inappropriate times, like when Harry shoves water into Dumbledore's mouth (just had read an article about elderly care), Helena Bonham Carter guest-appears as her regular self, and when some pathetic person actually started crying (sniffing) when Dumbledore dies. All in all it was a movie with unbelievably lousy, over-the-top acting and darkness which was just odd (a scene with a cursed girl being lifted up by invincible forces and shaken before dropped to the ground, made me question whether the film was actually Exorcist 3). There were 10-year-old kids in the audience. Interestingly, Malfoy was the only interesting character in the film. Anybody else seen it?

Originally posted by Raamsade: quote:Originally posted by G G: The original argument went:"God exists and here is the proof/reasoning for why He exists - now it's your turn to explain why He doesn't exist." Again, there is no such thing as proof only evidence and reason. Lets, arguendo, change proof to evidence. Furthermore, let us drop all evidence for God's existence since we know you can't produce any evidence for God's existence that's perceptible to the human senses. Supposed miracles are discounted for obvious reasons. We're now left with reasons (that is logically sound reasons) for God existence. Do you have any? I ask because none have been presented thusfar. And even though this thread was ostensibly about Atheism, people have been attacking the scientific theory of Evolution. My personal logical reasoning is presented in the second post of this thread.

The original discussion was between Ramsaade and the Siren. **ALERT! THIS IS A FRIGGIN GIANT DINOSAUR POST!** Sorry about that. And massively off-topic, as this thread is supposed to be atheism/ notion of God and not evolutionary theory. RAMDAASE WROTE: "First of all there is no such thing as prove in the real world only evidence and arguments. So no one can prove anything notwithstanding the colloquial use of the word "prove." I agree. I hope you keep this in mind while we continue. "More pertinently, I have comprehensibly demolished your pathetic and error-filled screed on Evolution. The terse response in your last post against your more prolix earlier posts indicates I've done pretty good job." Hmmh? "Scientists are guilty of using their imagination but they're not the only ones." 3-D colouring and designing the iris of the dinosaurs and cashing in on them in various museums and shows and et cetera is indeed using imagination. Artificially joining a human skull and jawbones of an orang-utan on the other hand is good old lying. Or to be more specific in this case: forgery. It raises the question, why do it, hmm? If evolution really is an undeniable fact. "Religious people also use their imagination and have come up with a impressive body of myths and fairy tales for which there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever." I agree with you. It is no wonder evolutionary theory saw daylight in Europe which was the capital of Christianity. The Bible is inconsistent, has factual errors and very few believe it to be the true words of God. I challenge you to find lies in the Quran however. Even better; I urge you to find anything that supports the view that prophet Muhammed (sas) was a dishonest man or had bad character - unlike that old chap Darwin who was quite bit of a racist and sexist, and who would probably look down on a cheerful, talkative little Negro like yourself "Scientists use their imagination to come up with conceptual frameworks that explain observed facts. For example, scientists have come up with the theory of Gravity to explain the fact of gravity.Similarly, scientists have come up with the theory of Evolution to explain the fact of evolution. But what distinguishes fruitful product of human imagination from non-fruitful ones is empirical evidence. Science goes where the evidence leads. If the outcome of the imagination of scientists don't conform to the empirical evidence, the former must give way to the latter." Observation is not the same as imagination. Pondering why an apple falls off the tree but the moon doesn't fall on Earth is quite different to thinking "I look different from my parents - frankly, I'm much better looking - therefore my ancestors must have looked like real apes!" The former is observation, the second imagination. You gotta give it to some evolutionary geneticist though, since without their awesome imagination we wouldn't have my favourite comic X-Men! "First, it wasn't one specimen of Archeopteryx that was discovered but several over many years. Second, Archeopteryx is just but one evidence for the descent of modern birds from dinosaurs. " 1. Does the fact that something is thought to have evolved from something, in your opinion, constitute for a scientific fact? 2. Why do you claim Archaepteryx to be an intermediate when evolutionary scientist don't agree upon it? SJ Gould called it an odd mosaic if I remember correctly, and according to evotheory Arch is an extinct subbranch which doesn't lead to modern birds. "Third, long before the theory of evolution and suggestions that birds descended from dinosaurs appeared, people including famous creationists like Linnaeus have been pointing out the close similarities between birds and reptiles." Could it not also mean that they share the same maker? "What they instead have is the genes that code for teeth and we occasionally see birds with teeth just like we occasionally see whales with hind legs. Evolution Theory beautifully explains these observations. " Whales have structures which evolutionist interpret as hind legs. What is the beautiful evolution theory? Explain it to me please, as I get confused by all the inconsistent explanations. "Well, you're simply mistaken. The evidence for the evolution of birds from dinosaurs is massive and continuing to pile up. We have evidences from varied fields as paleontology, comparative anatomy, genetics, biochemistry, behavior, biogeography... all collaborating each other. " Please provide some from your mountain of evidence, and we'll have a closer look at that. "I'm curious, what kind of evidence will convince you that birds descended from dinosaurs?" I'm not the Siren but... The same kind of evidence that would convince your own fellow evolutionist, I suppose. You now, those who also reject the idea birds evolved from dinos? "Second, humans DID descend from aep-like creatures and there is conclusive and "irrefutable" evidence if you so care to know I'm happy to disabuse you of your ignorance. " So you may be able to use some of that conclusive and "irrefutable" evidence and tell us whether, according to evolutionary theory, Australopithecus is actually humans' ancestor or not? Australopithecus, you know, those ape-like creatures? "Second, most animals that ever lived never fossilized because their bodies were not made of hard stuff." "Their bodies were not made of hard stuff?" Whatever is that supposed to mean, did they not have bones? You do now how fossilization works, don't you? And why there are plant fossils - or is your answer perhaps that their "bodies were made of hard stuff"? "Third, Evolution theory is in accord with genetics." The evolutionary theory isn't even in accordance with itself. "So they can't be hindering anything. Instead, they slowly add to the genetic diversity of a population so that when there is environmental pressure for particular traits, Natural Selection can filter the advantageous traits." This is ill-informed. A mutation is a mutation. It doesn't "slowly add to the genetic diversity" because mutations are off-shoots, and they do not transmit to descendants. A person who has a mutation isn't a new species, but a patient. Which actually brings me to asking a pretty simple question: why aren't evolutionist teaching kids that their kids may not necessarily be the same species as them? You wrote: "Dinosaurs were complex but no longer with us. Of course evolution or mutations had nothing to do with their extinction. " Weren't you just arguing that birds evolved from dinosaurs? If an asteroid hit Earth and caused the mass death of dinosaurs (as the most popular theory goes), wouldn't there be more evidence of intermediates? Since at the time of their death they'd be already in the mutation process into another species (more those Arch birdies than Rexes). The fact that there are more dinosaurs than intermediates implies that freak-show birds like the Arch were a species of their own (just like many evos think) and not descendants of dinos. "Each one of us is born with a new set of mutations that we didn't inherit from our parents. These new mutations code for protiens that do pretty much that same thing but slightly differently. That's why we look different from each other otherwise we" We have different genetic make-up which makes us look different from our parents, this is NOT the same thing as mutation. I'm actually pretty shocked at this claim. "Moreover, Evolution is not directional, ie linear progression from less complex to more complex. And it's not purposeful." This is news, seeing as life apparently evolved from a single cell. Please explain what you mean (in other words, I'm giving you a chance to rephrase your words - do it wisely). "Genetic diversity is continuously added to the gene pool of a population". DNA changes, but the number of chromosomes does not increase (can miss). "you and everyone else is evidence for this fact as you have new mutations different from the ones you inherited from your parents. " Shock horror! Oh no! Does this mean I'm a mutant? "There can be no free will in a world lorded over by an all knowing, omnipotent "creator" with free will who created everyone." Why not? "Intellectually laziness is characteristic of creationists. This is why you prefer the more lazy "God did it" to the more complex, enriching, enlightening and factually accurate Evolution theory." Yes, we are intellectually lazy oh you evolutionist who are much superior to us. Forgive us our ignorance for we are just simple-minded peasants. Tell us what to think and if we dare question errors in your logic, whip us with harsh words, remind us of our ignorance and regroup yourself to think of fills for your appalling gaps, and then come back and guide us with your divine wisdom and knowledge. "You are truly ignorant of what you're so against - Evolution Theory. I don't fault you though. You're a victim of religious indoctrination which makes you believe in things where there is no evidence and reject in theories backed by plenty of evidence." Yes, and you just proved us how much you know about evolutionary theory, which is embarrassingly little You, my friend, are a victim of arrogance and there's no excuse for that.

THE SIREN, you're on about religion again. I get what you mean, but frankly I don't still understand why you're on it. I'll said it again: it was not about religion, but logic. Example: Johnny B says:" I am an angel and it's your duty to prove the contrary" That would mean that the original argument would've been: "God exists and it's your duty to prove the contrary". That is not the case. The original argument went:"God exists and here is the proof/reasoning for why He exists - now it's your turn to explain why He doesn't exist." I really don't understand why you dragged this into a debate about the Truth. Proof does not necessarily equal to truth. Proof can be refuted, truth cannot. Here is a better analogy Johnny B could have used: "There is a giant blue elephant in the universe, I saw it in a vision - prove there isn't a blue giant elephant somewhere in the universe." This is exhausting, unnecessary and I just missed my bus. Please if you really want us to have interesting and intelligent conversations, then ask something, don't attack something which doesn't exist. I'll be back in a couple of hours, iA!

A.Z I think you'll change your mind as soon as you see your little daddy's girls have grown into attractive young women I would not trust even the "shax shax" guys with 15-year-old girls. Like my cousin has warned, there is not even a wadaad guy who will not try to steal a kiss. In my wildest dreams I'm home-schooling my kids, and instead of reading about the great wall of China, we're actually there visualizing the past (might prove a bit hard what with all the tourists). The only problem is I'd have to find myself a very wealthy hard-working husband to pay for all this

These Nigerian scam letters are everywhere! They're like Jehova's Witnesses!

Nin Yaaban, my friend. I don't know what Geedo is, what is it? Do you mean Khaad? "But you are missing the point, if they were legal and regulated it wouldn't be as harmful or have chemicals in 'em" They were legal and being harmlessly used by the natives for thousands of years before hedonistic westerners started processing it for "maximum enjoyment". So actually cocaine became dangerous and illegal because it became more and more harmful (by having so many hazardous chemicals added into it) by these hedonistic westerners. Do you think party people and criminals all over the world would suddenly start chewing coca leafs if cocaine was legalized? I think there would be commercial drugs companies creating even more powerful drugs, targeting it at even younger demographic and thus creating more addicts, crime and chaos and more profit for themselves. Legalizing drugs would just trash the world more than it's being trashed right now. Drugs are not the answer (to having fun, celebrating, getting friends, forgetting the past/present or for whatever reason people use drugs), the answer is within.

THE SIREN - did you read the 3rd post in this thread? The one by me? I do realize the uselessness of trying to make a blind person read with their eyes - cue the braille system. My original post (that would be the second one, the first was just an intro) was not religious. Now what comes to my reply to Johnny B; the religious bit's purpose was to refute Johnny B's angel example. Johnny Bravo claiming he is an angel and expecting people to simply prove him wrong, cannot be compared to the Quran telling us Islam is the true religion and providing proof. This is not just saying the Quran provides proof, but the fact that Quran provides proof makes it very different from, and ultimately incomparable to, Johnny B's angel analogy which excluded proofs. Do you understand what I'm getting at? This has nothing to do with religion or being religious. I can actually come up with more appropriate analogies for Johnny B - which would consequently be harder to refute, but I don't want to engage in an debate with myself. The only person I replied purely religiously to was Garmaqaate. I indulged in Islam praise, and for that I will not apologize but will say it was primarily aimed at Garmagaate and other religious people, and not part of the debate as per se. OFF-TOPIC ALERT - Naden, you're out of your mind - and I just don't mean you being an atheist . District 9 is one of the best film to have come out this year. I cannot wait for the sequel. P.S. The budget was actually low at 30 million dollars. Transformers 2 was a little over 200 million. And that movie just offended everybody - and I mean EVERYBODY. Even my cat felt insulted.

Naden, did you read the 3rd post of this thread? That is a religious person trying to explain the existence of God, and why for any known worldly existence to be possible, we need an infinite deity (God) to exist. Now we gave the ball to you, and ask YOU to explain why YOU think no infinite deity exists. Someone mentioned and presented the evolutionary theory (which btw in itself does not shut out the possibility of a god) as a fact but was unable to provide any proof. Please be kind and jump in the discussion. We already explained in non-religious terms why God exists. Now you tell us why He doesn't. And by the way "we can't see him" isn't a good enough reason, there are a million other things which we can't see or hear with the human instincts.

**edited**

Originally posted by A.Z: I'm going AZTEC lol

Poker, dress like that & you'll be doing billie jeans (breaking young girl's hearts).

YES. Not for good though. I'll get a summer villa iA where I'll take the kids to bore their brains out during the summer holidays. Just like moi last year

If I was very rich: But for now: I kid you not, SOLers. I've got a soft spot for light military/cross-count ry vehicles.

I've heard it's.... sort of... scary

Originally posted by Garmaqaate: We should try to keep faith and science apart. I find that impossible, seeing as God created all. Originally posted by Garmaqaate: That said! Alxamdu Lillaahi rabbil caalamiin. "Caalamiin!". Did you get that? The Quraan has plenty of such amazing aayas. Caalamiin=worlds/uni verses. In plural! At the time of its revelation, people had geo-centric (earth centric) world view. The Quraan emphasises the plurality of the universe at a time when it was a known "fact" that the earth was the centre of the universe! There are many more ayaas I could quote but just this one alone is enough to make any non-believer to think and pose for a second, a minute may be. May you all pose for a minute at the signs, the "aayas", of the creator. Good post! I was watching a documentary about Einstein the other day and they were explaining how he got his idea for time's relativity whilst he was in a tram. Liar! I yelled in my mind. Now of course, Islam knew time was relative in a time when gaalga did not even understand the importance of self-hygiene. My next guess is gaalga will try to study the possibility of the universe expanding to a point, and then shrinking back to nothingness. I'm just kidding, of course they're already at it: http://en.wikipedia. org/wiki/Big_Crunch Now of course, naturally we Muslims know this will happen iA. Aduunka dhan waa la soo dhuubayaa, gad gadaal. I just find it really sad that Muslims are turning away from this wonderful, beautiful, peaceful, amazing religion that God has blessed us with (without even really studying and getting to know it). Islam is the most wonderful thing I know, alhamdulillaah. Ya Allah, help us become better people and reward us with Jannah! And help and guide the lost ones! Aamiin!

BTW I'm watching FRANCE24 and a guy called Manni Badillo just said he believed 9/11 was an inside job. This is pure gold, watch it if you can. EDIT: Unfortunately they cut him out. And of course they had to include: "the views of our guests do not represent the views of FRANCE24" Brilliant, just brilliant