Dayniile is not the only site coocking news; Have you visited "allpuntland"? Waagacusub; Gedoonline? Jawharonline? and the many other website with town/regional names? Warar laga helay ilo lagu kalsoonyahay; is a common phrase in newsmilling

Peacenow LOL.You haven't see how organised Somalilanders are sxb have you? They beat every other group in organising and being civil blv you me sxb. Even a staunch anti-somalilander is moved by the songs, the dance, the barfuun/uunsi and the speeches.

Abtigiisa, Sii wad halganka saaxib laakin halgankaaga ha ku reebin oo keliya "ONLF". Xaalku intaasi wuu ka weynyahay. Waa inaad ku dadaashaa difaaca umadda soomaaliyeed oo idil gaar ahaan kuwa aay weli ku dheehantahay soomalinimo ; somaligalbeed (fadlan o-da jooji) iyo NFD.

Originally posted by Mr.Paragon: AT&T, thanks for the insightful article. Anigu in my topic I mentioned waxa loo dan leeyahay; the very fabric of Somalinimo iyo Xeer. Sida dadka la isugu dilayo waa wax aan anigu aad u aqaan. I speak of experience from the NFD and the late 80s Somali screening where a lot of non-Os were simply 'repatriated' to Somalia ( with just their macawiis as the only wealth they could take with them ), although most of them were born in Kenya. Lol. Let's just say many of my relatives baabuur muraayadda madowdahay ayaa lagu musaafureyey, the rest simply fled before that happened. The purpose for the screening : to simply forment hatred between good hearted Somalis by using some nasty officials in Kenya and Somalia. I can see the parallels in the current situation and I absolutely deplore it. We can't let it happen again. Jaalle Paragon, I hate to correct you sxb; There were relatively few somalis from the NFD who were kicked out by the madaxkorankor! The NFD somalis lived under harsh conditions where all of them were termed as "S-hiftas" and subject to rape, imprisonment etc. So, there was no expulsion of any somalis from the NFD because they already lived in a prison The situation was of course worse for the somalis who could not show lineage with the five big clans ; In fact, if you have visited Mandera district you may note that all somalis (except the G, M and D) are termed as corner tribes and in a model which might suit somalia in the future you will find people who are at loggerheads in other parts of somalia united as one clan. Who were those were screened and lost their rights? Down Kenya somalis of all clans. The somalis from the NFD went back to their home villages to face a) persecution and rot in jails b) to melt into the reer Baadiye folk. The somalis who did not have relatives in the NFD were unwilling or thought they could be spared. Marka sxb it was not about being an O or any other alphabet but rather a collective humiliation of somalis.

Check these articles. http://www.rau.ro/in tranet/JEP/1999/1303 /13030003.pdf http://weber.ucsd.ed u/~jrauch/leadingiss ues/leading.pdf Dhagax Tuur, Yes, Africa is not poor but is poorly managed; why is that the reason sxb? You are probably right that all the listed reasons are true for Africa

Dear ramsade, Because of the limited time at my behest, I wouldn't be able to address the points your raised above. I will do that in future. Laziness is difficult to conceptualise and it might have been Weber (I prefer the other Weber; location theory- least cost- guy) who used to argue for protestanism ethics but this line of reasoning is today potent in development circles. The capital accumulation thesis has been within the realm of development economics since the 40s at least (cf, Lewis, Hirschman, Cardoso, Furtado etc). I like Hirschman's unbalanced growth argument. read the strategy and development projects observed (if you did not do that b4). The marxist and structuralism schools were right in the 1950s but this is fifty years later. Exploitaton is no longer true; colonialism is no longer an explaination sxb. But, leaving conceptual issues aside could you please discuss why sub-saharan african countries lag behind. What is your catch on the population issue? Why is that despite the abundance of natural resources we are as poor as South Korea, Colombia were fifty years ago? Why is African not catching up?

Ramsade, mmm, you make some good points worth exploring. I don't agree with the geographical disadvantage reasoning. You are right; under(un)developed is perhaps the right term. As to the industrialisation perspective, volumes have been written about this subject (as you mentioned)in the 50-60s with specific emphasises on Latin America (the commission for Latin America)- ECLA school. Raul Prebisch (who became the finance minister of Argentina wrote broadly on this subject and singer. ( I will be happy to e-mail you a conceptual paper that I am working on non-equilibirium paths to development which takes a historical approach) Saaxib, Sub-saharan african countries are un(under)developed; there are some exogenous factors but there are also some endogenous ones which we cannot neglect. Why is it that KENYA is lagging when compared to South Korea? Why is Nigeria behind Saudi Arabia?

Seeker, While Chile might provide a best practice case for the "chicago boys" I don't think analysing it will answer the question at hand. But, still I look forward to reading your input on Chile. I think the population growth factor (without due economic growth) institutional aspects, and lack of FDI (who wants to invest where greed, corruption etc prevail?), the fascination of africans with getting enriched quickly, the love for dhaldhaal etc are the main reasons. But, sincerely, I don't want to throw out the lazy premises since all these factors pacify people. I hope you also add your two cents to the entrepreneurship aspect (by the way, I mean the schumpeterian entrepreneuship). Maskin Macruf ak´hyaar; Yeah, why is it that Haiti -once an epitomy of how "africans" can fight slavery and year for freedom- is the poorest nation in the Americas? Some may argue that there is a laziness factor Layziness in a learned phenomenon it is not inherited through genes.

Seeker, Thanks for the little feedback. But to be fair to the Chicago school (Friedman) who as you rightly stated drew inspiration from F Hayek, have at least succeeded in their economic policy towards Chile. Human rights abuses aside, their economic model worked. This is easy to understand because it thrives under dictatorship. From a conceptual viewpoint, it was monentarism that succeed instead of the keynesian multiplier model. Africans (now I am generalising) are what you may term as "survival entrepreneurs" but they seem to lack vision. Sxb, if you go beneath the so called entrepreneural activities of somalis in the west and even nairobi, you may find that there is less economic thinking Colonialisation is a factor, so are almost all the other factors, but why is sub-haran african countries not catching up when Asia and Latin America are doing that. Waa suaal culus sxb. I think we cannot leave aside the issue of population growth without economic development; the vicious cycle. I am inclined to much of Gunnar Myrdal's explainations... but we can't just put aside the lazy notion Arac, this is maybe the wrong venue for you walaal. Resistance, are you sure about that? That Africans are happier. Speaking of happiness, Bhutan is a funny country. I was there a while back and they have a minister of happiness; and a measurement called gross domestic happiness. When their king introduced democracy they said they don't want; when elections were held the former minister of happiness became the prime minister. I don't think African are happy ; Africans are exposed to corruption, disease and wars... and you can't be happy in those situations. P.s Seeker, Myrdal and Hayek are two different economists at the opposite end of the spectrum. Myrdal was driven by a desire to understand development, with emphasises on those in the periphery; Hayek on the other hand was a right winger (in economic terms). Romour has it that when they were both awarded the nobel prize in 1974(?) they never shook hands.

Jaanka, waan gartay. That has been the point made by a recent BBC documentary (Radio). But that is a very simplified picture. Kenya's GDP was far larger than that of South Africa in the 60s. Today it is less than 10% of the south Korean one. Some might argue that it is a combination of all the factors that I wrote. But, how can a continent combine all the above? At dinner conferences there is an unpleasant - hoos u hadal- perspective; that is Africans are inherently lazy and that the economic system we have in the world does not fit in the african context. A few years back, in Durban I almost came to fist fight with a German economic sociologist when after a few drinks he uttered that sentiment. But, I am begining to have second thoughts. There are some good examples of good governance; Bostwana is one of them. But the majority of Sub-saharan African countries are poor despite having all the pre-requisites for development.

Asssalamu calaykum, This question has been haunting me for nearly a decade; Is it institutional defficiencies to ci´te Gunnar Myrdal? Corruption and mismanagement? ala Obama Colonial reasons? To cite Raul Prebisch, Alfonso, Furtado, Frank and the rest of the Marxist school? The lack of industrial linkages to Use Albert O. Hirschman's concept? Or is it; Because we are lazy? This line of thinking is common in final dinners at conferences. P.s I know Paragon will invoke the resource curse and dutch disease paradigms. That is fine but a favourite black swan of mine is Botswana

Mansa Musa, There are always alternatives out there sxb!!! Considering what my people and your people are going through any alternative is better than the incumbent one. don't you think?

Mr. Somali, nobody asked you to leave your two cents. If you think the topic does not concern or that you deem it irrelevant, then the best way is perhaps not to contribute to it. This is a classical case of compulsivness- and to your support there are many that suffer from this disorder sxb. Why are you calling for a moderator on this??????? I guess you are of the many who wants only their points of view to suffice. Why should you bother Mr. Somali???????? Farancab, I am not here to impress you or anyone. I take the Bakeyle analogy as a praise. By the way, I have been a member on these boards for many years and guess what I haven't posted +1500. I don't know why I should be banned because I always conduct a civilised discussion. By the way guys, don't force me to sink to a level where I am forced to write damning essays. I could intellectually "murder" your stances. This is the case for this thread; Mr. Xiin faniin, who I admired a number of years ago has been caught in a lie/sheer munaafuqnimo. He called for the end for the TFG under Abdullahi Yusuf but he is everywhere propagating support for Sheikh Sharif, a man who is on record on calling for ethiopian troops. Now, if your comprehension of the somali language is limited- please disregard by replies- but the word Banjar means puncture; i.e. Xiin's so called caravan of peace has got punctured. Let me argue and discuss with My Cousin Mr. Faniin will ya? Nb: I wouldn't be banned so hold your horses

Abdullahi Yusuf xaal qaado: waa laguu gefey. You are a true power hungary somali. You never sold a piece of somali territory; you wanted the eithiopians to come to make sure that somalis call you Jaalle Madaxweyne. Duke ka waran warkaasi? We got a bad copy of you.

Ghelle, Don't bend words; you know southerners as you may know puntland, somaliland and lalalands. Why does the term "southerners" evoke so much feelings? Southerners: those somalis that have had 19-20 years of hell under Caydid, Cali Mahdi, huraale, shaati and the rest of the warlords. Walee waa yaab; had I said Puntland, somaliland or mentioned a village in the midst of nothing, there would be no reaction. Bal is weeydiya. About giving Sheikh Shariif a chance; why? Abdullahi Yusuf was better (now that makes Duke happy). At least Abdullahi yusuf was a power hungary thug; sheikh Sharif is a pseudo-tribalist who has fooled somalis. Wacdaraha; xiin waa gareen kaadh doon sxb. He can't fool everyone on here. He has proved to be a man who does not care about the lives of "southerners"- here we go again. Xiin is content if the killings in Xamar are conducted by someone from the south.

Xiin Faniin, ma waxaan ku mooday mise waxaad noqotay; Waxaan ku mooday nin soomali ah oo danaha soomaliyeed ka duulayaa, laakin waxaad noqotay af minshaar, aay ku dheehantahay qabyaalada iyo jaceyl indho la'. Saaxib, dawlad ku sheegta aad taageerto waa mid sawir xun dawladdii cabdullahi yusuf: Sawaariikh ineey la dhacdo dad soomaali ah, Madaxweeyne jaahil ah oo aad moodo inaay qabyaalad sido iyo qax umadeed. Drop the dead donkey sxb

I have been to Bardheere, Luuq, Buur dhuubo and Bardheere. The "peace caravan" nonsense aside, this region has never witnessed the peace they are enjoying in 2009. Gone are the clan/tribal discourses inept on diving people; gone are the cheap talk of tribalism as a unit of power. What you have instead is people organising themeslves; grassroot people. Spare me the nonsense of "Al shabaab". Barre Huraale and the rest of the tribalists (aka Amxaaro la-ckeys) have tried to break this peace- but they will never succeed

Xiin Faniin is munaafiq nummer uno. I don't see much difference between Cabdillahi Yusuf and Sheikh Sharif when it comes to Ethiopia. Xiin's caravan of nonsense is bent on enslaving the southerners. To Xiin and many other on SOL, the southern people deserve what they are getting. Xiin, come clean and admit that you hate the southern people of somalia. You want them to be enganged in endless wars. I don't understand how a somali in his own mind will defend a government that bombs its own people. You are either a tribalist hating southerners or you are a naive fadhi-ku-dirir looking for praises. Either case, spare us your nonsense about Sheikh Shariif's government. It is a warlord government led by an illitrate tribalist, sheikh shariif

Paragonoow, I used to be a true believer of somali lyrics. I used to think that most of our composers were just as good as Mozart, Bach , and the rest. But, in the last few years, I have come to the conclusion that we are at the lowest part of the ladder when it comes to composing (maybe I have taken an evolutionary perspective on everything ). When I have the blues, I can't help but recite the lyrics of " Cabdulqadir Jaamac Joof"- real blues but lately I found that even the "magaalo joog xume Xaashi" could utter these words. There is no sophistication. In addition, our society (somali) have socially constructed ( I hope I don't get some sociologists on my heel for utterung social constructivism) what is good lyrics. You see my friend, explaining and describing life in waranle territory i.e geel, salaaqo, sabo etc is not "murti" which has has become the magna carta of somali sugaan. You could also talk about cows, chicken, diiq, etc (just as Axmadeey Cabdi Gaashaan does) but according to constructivist perspective your are murtiless. Sorry to deviate from the core of the topic but I had to say that.

ASC, Abaar ba'an baa haabsatay NFD, soomali Galbeed, Gedo and possibly the whole of Somalia. Lo'dii, arigii, geela iyo weliba dameerihiin biyo iyo baad looma haayo. Bal afar faataxo ha laisku kaalmeeyo; This calls for in loox madax la saarto oo la roob doono.

Castro, You could be not related to sheikh hotel and still seek a position of power; don't you know that? Waxaanan oran afka ha ii gelinin sxb. Xiin, As someone mentioned above you seem to be undergoing some kind of mental breakdown sxb. Ka fadhisi siyaasada soomaaliya. Through this thread and a myriad of others on SOL you have showed that you prefer the deaths and constant shelling of somalis- if that is done by this da-bo-****** government. Many of us who have been members on these boards for several years are not blind to your earlier perspectives; save the last days of the TFG (1) you have never cared about deaths and killings of somalis. Ciyaar waa gelin dambe for you is about the killings of thousands of people in Muqdisho.

Xiin, I can see that you can't engage in an argument; I have read several threads in which you resort to name calling when you are losing the argument. Bal ha is faananin , nin is faanshe waa ri is nuugtay. Waxaa tahay hangool jabay; hangool jabanay reer ma oodo. My assumption is that you were expecting a position of power from this sick debacle called government;and as everyday goes by you are witnessing that might not be achieved. Marka waxaad ila eegtahay nin ishuu masaariifta ka filaayey mugdi ka galay. Marka orodoo fadhi ku dirirkii ku laabo sxb. Waa iga walo mardambe hadaan kaa maqlo amaanta Kenya inaan sharafta yar oo kugu hadhay kaa qaado

Xiin, LOL sagaaro ; Waryaahe ma anigaad sagaaro igu tilmaantahy? Ma ninkeeyga libaax soo dilay Come on Xiin, apologise sxb. Weydii Paragon sidaan u galo dadka gumeeysiga madow ka xigsida soomalidda. Ciyaartu waay dhamaatay sxb. Sheikh hotel is a lame duck. He has fooled many of us ; you remember I used to like the guy just like you did.

Xiin, akhi biyo gaduud miyaad soo cabtay? Waa ku sidee? aflagaado iyo waxaan lagugu garan jirey baad la soo shir tagte? Mise waxaad aragtay inaay ciyaartii dhamaatay? If you have not seen Kenyan army raping somalis, many of us did and our wounds are still hurting; so, cut the crap bro. You are insulting the many who perished at the hands of the gumeeysiga madoow!!!! Have you heard of wagalla? malka Re'? Garissa? Are you aware of the historical context? You are an apologist; Ethiopians and Kenyans have been enemies of somalia and somalis and that remains. Ask the somalis on SOL who come from the NFD and even though who have been seduced into accepting Kenya defacto colonialism never deny the fact that the somalis in the NFD undergoe human rights abuses on a minute basis. Drop this dead donkey called Sharif Villa. He is no different than Abdullahi Yusuf and the many murderous that somalis have witnessed the last decades. He has been selected on the same premises; he is using the same kind of discourse to rally support and he is calling for Ethiopians and Kenyans to rescue him; the same bs that he once called "gaalo". Again, don't me boil with anger; Ask our friend Paragon how I feel about madaxkorankors.

Moonlight, you are a fidno wade. You have a limited knowledge of the somali problem let alone possible solutions. As Horn wrote Siyaasada fasax ka qaado. All you do on these boards is inflame. You wished Hiiraan a doomsday earlier this week. Let me address Maskiin's points. Yaa akhi, Baydhabo, the city of death; the city that was the scene of the worst attrocities for nearly 20 years is today peaceful. In fact, save a few months in the infancy of the RRA, Baydhabo janaay has never witnessed the relative calm that it has seen the past few months. You have to admit that. The dhallinta ( I don't like the term) have taken a pragmatic approach to healing the wounds that existed between various clans. Unlike, other places, there were not graves that were dug, they have allowed the return of aid organisations etc. Indeed, these so called dhallinta have used various wrong strategies in other places, but they are learning. Undoubtedly, the so called dhallinta make mistakes; mini fatwas; no football, digging graves and taking out lafaha as they did in Bardheere, Jilib, Kismayo, barawe. These kinds of actions will not grant them PR. They have to understand the contexts that funtion in if they are to be embraced by the masses! Yet, we are committing a gross intellectual blunder if we do not give them credit for bringing peace and justices to many places in Somalia. -Kismayo iyo kistaada is today very peaceful; no more clam skirmishes; the shoe shining kids whose daily earnings went to the pockets of thugs are today able to bring back food to their families. The warlords that have terrorised kismayo are today on the run. What more do we want? -In the case of Baydhabo:For the first time in many years, Baydhabo janaay is peaceful. what more do you want? Do you want dawlad ku sheeg to come back and create havoc; rape, imprison etc? Do you want the warlords, the ape- Aden madoobe; Shaati (he is in a hospital in germany) and the other murderers to return? -Marka Cadeey and Shabeellada hoose; The tragedy that had befallen this region has not been fully discussed; Indha-cade and the other warlords confisticated farms and even sold water to the local population. Today, Indha-cade is part and parcel of the government; do you want Indha cade to return and humiliate these people? Let us not demonise people simply because there is a discourse about them. You and I and many that visit these boards enjoy relative peace in many western countries. For many in somalia, peace is an elusive concept and I don't understand why we should deny them peace. It was not long time ago when sheikh shariif was a persona non grata; and today he is the president. As a matter of fact, many see those in power in the south as heroes(whether we like it or not). They have succeeded where so called governments, warlords and others have failed. I don't understand why we should wish upon the citizens of Baydhabo and other places deaths and destruction- because- that is what a government- ala somalia is good at. Now to the theme of the topic; we have to understand Che's context; *Sheikh Sharif was selected solely on bringing peace, healing the wounds; capability to offset the dark history of somalia. He has failed big time; He was claiming that Abdullahi Yusuf brought Ethiopians; he is doing the same; he was claiming that Amison were shelling residential areas; the same thing is happening. He is not in control of any place; At least Abdullahi Yusuf controlled Baydhabo! Warlords are his friends; Abdullahi Yusuf humiliated some of the warlords; sheikh sharif dines with them and seeks their protection! Based on the above, he should resign for the sake of saving lives; for the sake of somalia. What next? This is a childish question; nothing worse will happen because the situation today is so bad. In the worst case scenario, another peace conference another madaxweyne, but mark my words the new peace conference will not have the framework of tribalism as a power sharing mechanism; no more 4,5, no more warlords. In the best scenario, the dhallinta will learn of their mistakes; understand that the creation of a state- a cohesive one is more than rehtorics and govern.