salaama Calaykum, Our people have been subjected to suffering caused by several leaders, warlords and even individuals. There are some horrible wounds left on the hearts and minds of many somalis. The saying that "crime never pays" is a cliche because the same people who are responsible for the indirect/direct deaths and murders of hundreds of thousands of somalis are meeting in Nairobi to elect the warlord of the warlord. I think there are two ways to heal the wounds: 1: Call for a tribunal that would prosecute those responsbile. 2: Hold a healing(reconciliation) conference like the one south africa had. what do you think?

Somalisijui, you raise an interesting point. I don't think somalis in general hate people who were born in tanzania , kenya or Uganda. on the contrary, people who are termed as sijuis enjoy a lot of hospitality. It is the somali sijuis who like to differentiate themselves from the others. For example why did you take the nickname somalisijui?

Barwaaqo: LOL do you live in London? meeshaa baas! Staupchick: you are right, and I hope to get some feedback from you after you visit. The impression you will get depends on where you are coming from. Lander: ku soo dhowow saaxib waa lagu marti gelinayaa!

To cilmi , dantay and angel Dust: Why do you think the majority of somalis are against the notion of seperation for somaliland?

Staupchick(Waxu magac adkaa!)I forgot to add visit "speaker's corner " in central london to experience the art of excersing freedom of speech.

Rahiima good article. why don't drag Nur from that rat hole called somalinet forum to this site? I am sure his inputs would be welcome.

Dusty ok fair enough. I am an ethnic somali who is a citizen of a european country. To the eyes of the world we are all somalis. I don't think ethnicity is dynamic. You are born into an ethnic group- somali in my case. You may change your domicile, nationality or citizenship but not your ethnical background. so you argument that somalinimo is dead is flawed. Let me just say something for the record here. I don't care if what was known as somalia disintegrates into small chieftains, republics,kindgoms, etc. My argument is not based or coloured by tribalism. By the way you mentioned that you are an ex somali turned somalilander! I am perhaps the most stupid guy on this planet but where do the somalilanders come from?

Nino, you are quite right in saying that it is the most friendly somali town in western europe. You are also right that there are opportunities. But I was talking about the general standards! I have been to many countries (rich and poor). London does not live upto its name! Nino, wadankale weligaa ma tagtay?

Waryaahe Cilmi, Let me tell you something bro. -Debating an issue and not seeing eye to eye is not hate-mongering. -Somalinimo is not dead, but the state of somalia is in a comma. -The so called somaliland is inhabited by somalis. -Any achievment reached by any somali or region is a matter of pride and not hate. -Very right in saying that "we got rid of a fascist dictator" but isn't what you are saying the creation of another dictatorship? Answer me one simple question Cilmi: WHAT IS YOUR ETHNICITY?

Lander, what do you mean by holding back? Does a nation's development depend on recognition???? why is independence so important? my believe is that as long as you have food in the mouth of the citizens, social equality and a judiciary system that is fair, you don't need recognition or independence! Unless independence and recognition bring with them hard currency in the form of foreign aid which certainly would murder the nation, then there is no need for one

One wonders what philosophy and abstract models got to do with economic development of a country in tatters!

London, magac dheeraa oo xumaa! London is not as good a place as it sounds: It is comparable to any third world metropolitan (Abidjan, Nairobi). Coming from a developed part of the world to London would certainly be an experience and I wish you good luck: Here are a few survival tips: -Make sure you say sir, madam, mate, etc everytime, everywhere. They love "morning sir, morning madam, mate etc). - Make sure every sentence you say contains the word thanks (it must be the only place on earth where you even say thank you when being wronged , robbed. -Make sure you take shower/bathe before you come because water seems to be scarse. I don't get the rationale of having two taps (hot and warm)everywhere! be careful, you might burn a body part in the process of having the right mix of warm and cold water. -Make sure you have your visa card in a safe place because things taken for granted in many parts of the world could lead to robbery. (opening an account, carrying a visa card etc is a thing for the privledged in her majesty's country) -Make sure that you give yourself a 4 hours margin of error when you want to meet someone (transportation is better on donkeys than buses) -Make sure to bring sleeping tablets. most somalis don't go to bed until 3 am...... -make sure you can cook and can use boilers, cookers etc. because most of your hostess would be asleep by breakfast and lunch time. -make sure you go to southall , wembely and upton park and pay a visit to the somali restaurants (make sure you got a TBC, hepatices) vaccinations before you visit the restaurant. -Be careful . not many somali londeners have a driver's license or car insurance. Get an extra cover before you come!

Fouzia, who decides on what morality is? is it really the intellect?

Duniya, Aids is a dangerous disease and there is nothing to boast about it. When I read the first few lines of your post, I felt strong sympathy and wanted to offer your some emotional support. But having read the whole post, I have come to the simple conclusion that you are: A muderer, a criminal. The spread of aids deliberatly is a crime in many countries. We have to ask the moderators or the onwers of this site to report you to the police. The police will then investigate from which computer you logged from and prosecute you for murder.

Salaama calaykum, I found this story about Abdi, a young somali victim of mines. "Abdi Salan was kicking a soccer ball around with a couple friends. They were playing on a lawn near his house. Abdi was 7, and his two friends were a couple of years older. He was chasing them, running behind them, far enough back that, when they stepped on the mine and were blown up, Abdi was only maimed. It was 1993, and the war in Somalia had reached Abdi's home in Mogadishu. There wasn't a lot the doctors could do; they reassembled Abdi's left arm and, to a lesser extent, Abdi's left leg, then sent him home. Abdi Salan Photo/Rick Wood Abdi Salan, 17, has his leg examined by orthopedic doctors Michael Anderson and William Dicus, who inspects the X-rays, at the Blount Orthopaedic Clinic. Abdi's leg was maimed by a land mine 10 years ago in Somalia. Who would plant a mine in a field where children play? Abdi thinks they were people who wanted to kill his father, but what they did instead was break his father's heart. And his mother's heart. And the hearts of everyone who loved him. The mine killed two boys, maimed a third, and broke hearts as far away as Canada, where Abdi's uncle, Mohamed Fara Ali, listened in tears to Abdi's mother describe her son's mutilation. Abdi's wounds healed, but he was crippled. He could ambulate - walk really isn't the right word - but only by bending into a deep crouch. The other kids found Abdi's walk amusing. In Somalia, a slang term for a disabled person is Jeri. That became Abdi's nickname: "Jeri." Abdi grew older. The boys his age grew into young men and the girls into young women. Abdi remained Jeri. Abdi told girls that he would someday go to England or to America and that his leg and arm would be fixed. It was little more than a dream. Abdi's family could never afford such a thing. The girls told Abdi not to bother them until he got back. Abdi's uncle, Ali, had a friend whose badly injured leg had been treated by William Dicus, a surgeon at Blount Orthopaedic Clinic in Milwaukee. Ali, through his friend, contacted Dicus, and Dicus put together a team of people in Milwaukee willing to treat Abdi without charge. For political reasons, Abdi's visa was issued in Kenya, from the American Embassy in Nairobi. Abdi had to leave immediately. He wanted his mother to come, but he wasn't allowed to take anyone with him. He arrived in Milwaukee on May 18 with $50 in his wallet and a single bag containing some clothes, a photo album and, for Dicus, carvings of a lion and an elephant. For now, Abdi is living with Dicus' neighbors in Shorewood. Decisions about his treatments are still being made. He still has a ways to go. With his uncle translating, Abdi says that as a child, "I felt fated to be unhappy and to be my whole life sad." He is sitting at a kitchen table in Shorewood, with the ordinary sun coming through the windows on an ordinary day. Some people are having some work done on their house across the street, and you can hear hammering and the voices of men. A little boy is playing with plastic guys on the kitchen floor. Abdi's host, Susan Hagstrom, has made coffee, and the smell of it fills the air. He says, "Now I have hope." From the June 3, 2003 editions of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel

Dantey, While it is true that mismanagement of public funds, greed and poverty are the main causes of our problems, you forget to mention nepotism as the root cause of these three variables. You see if the leader does not have a group or a clan to identify with, there would be less mouths to feed (less greed), less pressure on him to mismanage public funds because he would know that if and when he is tried, there would be no clan to go to war on his behalf. The money saved in satisfying the maffia(because that is what clanism is about) would go to respond to poverty. The somali problem has been caused by clanism. In the sixties when somalia got its independence from the white men, power was given to small maffia that abused the trust of the people. This maffia had the backing of clanists and resulted in the entrance of afweyne, who used the somalinimo card and abolished tribalised in theory but never practiced as he preached. Instead, everything was based on tribalism, barbaric acts against certain tribes, both cultural and mental slavery on some other clans. Tribalism has contributed to the cultural alienation of some somalis. its dark forces are in culture, society and the economics of our nation. It is embedded in everything- and thus has to be the root cause. Finally, when afweyne was ejected from power tribalism again played apart in the ethnic cleansing of somalis. Tribalism has the same structure as the maffia. Intimidation, pride and hate are the holemarks. I tell you why tribalism is a problem in somalia, it is a concept that even an infant is hard to beleive in..yet somalis practice it.

Mujahid, Irrespective of the kind of work you do, we are born to slave. The conventional wisdom is perhaps that only manual labourers slave. but that is not the case. Even those who have a white collar job are slaves! I have been giving some thoughts on my mission on earth and came to the conclusion that I slave my fingers into using the keyboard and slave my brain into thinking. Even if you run your own business you are bound to slave. So, bro there is no way out of slavery...but death is an emancipation! The old saying beauty is in the eyes of the beholder is somewhat redundant in this case because there is no beauty in slaving!

Shyhem lol. I have made the same observation! I assume that most of our sisters and brothers deduct the decade or so of the civil war. This is a good thing to do because those were the lost years! Most somalis have also been deluded by the age factor. Because we are on the move (modern day gypsies) many have acquired multiple date of births!!!! The underage syndrome has certainly played a vital role in people not exceeding 25 years. To the poster, my felicitations on your 20th birthday!

salaama, is any of you familiar with the term scientific anarchism? I was reading a fascinating book by Paul Farebend "against" methods where the central theme appears to be anything goes! I wonder if any of you have read this book or any other that questions the foundations of western philosophy. what do you think of his arguments? was it based on realism? relativism? pragmatism? and why? Because this thread says intellectual debate: I wonder where those of you who are students of philosophy stand on the philosophical scale?

Opinionated from somalinet forums? Thanks for the response. This would certainly make me to rethink one or two things about my perceptions! It may not however lead to an overhaul of my assumptions because they have been confirmed by some here.

A good question!

saaxib, I don't want to turn to an "educated" white man to get information about how our people are doing in somaliland!. As a matter of fact, As a somali I am proud of the achievments somaliland. To any somali the strides made by somaliland in terms of political, economic and social cohesion should be a learning process. We should be proud of somaliland. But what I don't get is the rationale of independence- and this article by the "learned foreigner" adds a touch of propagandism to an otherwise clear situation. I will come back to discuss this issue later

Khayr very impressive response brother! so the bottom line is that intellectuality has nothing to do with stupidity. but has to do with a social construction based on knowledge being the banner of enlightment. In essense it has nothing to do with the brain absorping but of reflectivness. Do you think that intellectualism is overrated? I assume you have seen some wise men in africa whose reasoning reminds of decartes, kuhn and the rest of so called philosophers..... although many of this non-academic intellectuals don't use logical arguments.

LOL @@@@@@@@@qaxooti mami! dadka magacyadooda waa cajiib! qaxooti kombiyuutar heshay, qaxooti mami! Thanks for the tip! I am sure as soon as I realise that I am nearing the addictive stage I will obviously seek some help ( addicts never realise they are in the risk zone- but I think I will)

waad mahadsantihiin. I am feeling at home!