hey Lander saaxib, The name of this thread is intellectual social discussion! OOH Lord, I am on the defensive here! Saaxib anigaba magac naanees ayaan leeyahay- haddii aan isticmaalo waxaay xaqiiqdu tahay in dad badani aay ka qeylin karaan! sidoo kale, waxaa laga yaaba in dadka leh meeshani aay iga ceyriyaan. Run ahaantii anigu ma kala jecli wuxuu qofka isticmaalo laakin aaradeeydu waxaay ahayd inaan soo bandhigo rayi ku saleeysan arrintaan. marka saaxibiyaal dhamaantiinaba haddii aad u qaadateen inaan ula jeedo qof gaar ah, raali iga ahaada..oo sabeen iga hooda!

Ayoub sheikh, well that is the way you see it bro..but I don't ..marka aanu iska xirno

Matkey bro, arrintaan waa arrin aan sanooyin ka fikiraayey. Markaad fiirisid somalidda kii xoogaa wax soo bartaba waxaa lagu magacaabo "aqoonyahay" oo waxaa laga soocaa ummadda intee kale. Bal fiiri inta qof oo somali ah oo lagu tilmaamo doktor, injineer, taliye, duuliye etc. Cilmigu caqli ma siyaadiye ee waxaa siyaadiya noolosha. Tusaale hooyoyinkeena waxaay soo koriyeen caruur badan iyagoo aan weligooda galin iskool. marka ma waxaa lagu tilmaami karaa "intellectual" ma aha? Marka markale, waad ku mahadsantihiin dhamaantiina fikradaha aad ka dhiibateen mowduucan.

Miskiin Macruuf aqyaar- Kaabe taasi waa arrin cusub! Waa geesinimo! saaxib sidaad fileysay arrintu ma u dhacday mise waxaad la kulantay dad cusub oo ka duwan kuwa aad halkaan isku barateen?

Ameenah, walaal, I would be the last person on earth to advocate for censorship! That was not my point. It is true that every person descends from an area and therefore have the right to show and express views that reflect his own area. But a tribal minded person could also use the same arguments. couldn't he/she? I would love to illustrate with examples but I am bound by agreement. I know this is a dilema and my intention was not in any way to refuse people the right to use whatever they wish.

Funny post Please=BILIIS

Salaama calaykum: Adminstrators thanks for giving us the space to air our views. we know that you put alot of efforts in making this site a wonderful place to visit and leave views that could enhance the image of somalis. Compared to somalinet you have certainly done a marvelleous job. It is true that there is a limitation to excercising the familiar but impotent expression of "freedom of speech". We are human beings and thus bound to error or pass poor judgements or leave messages that could be intepreted as "profane" or tribalistic. I hope you would understand this. Our brother KING has used some improper language which he then regreted- it is a welcome gesture. What about the flags and the nicknames? is this permissable? Don't get me wrong I am not attacking any region or person, but flags and nicknames do have a tribal connotation. don't you think so?

Matkey, Baashi and the rest of you thanks for the responses.

Sophist: Afka carabiga iskuma fiicnin oo intii yareeyd oo quraanka laigu soo baraynay labaajaay iga aadey. Laakin BOY af somaliga waa KUREY,IGAAR, WIIL etc... But I get your point

King: waa suaal fiican What would happen to my family I suddenly perish: Well, my parents would not have their monthly remittances from DHIIGSHIIL! and DHIIGSHIIL would have less money in the form of interest rate (riba). But luckily, I have taken some contigency plan and ensured that my parents have enough cattle and houses to sell in case I kick the basket. One group that would suffer are My brothers who are qaad addicts and depend on me to finance their addiction including the many wives and concubines. They would likely become thugs or end up in mental hospices because they wouldn't be able to buy Qaad.

Hi sister, let me help you here: just for the record sister: some somalis don't know what GOO_GAA is! Some use the term DIINLEYA-ADALE which is the same as Gogaa!

Sophist you said: "uuh and there I was thinking simplicity is the prevailing thing in our age! then again such a supposition bound to be rebutted by a chap who takes great pleasure in dropping by phrases like contextual relativism!. My dear boy, Newtonian inertia can also be in the academic side of things! perhaps we all habitually suffer the art of being !!!!! us !!!!." Could be! by the way I realise you use "chap" and " boy" modestly. Is this in any way a statement from your part that you are dealing with a novice? wondering....

Sophist you wrote: "Now my dear boy entrepreneur; it is good to feel such irritation but to air it in this manner is to overlook the forum writers pervading culture. I for one have enormous amount of views but to air them would be nothing short of trying to walk on water. My dear boy, as Maskiin Macruuf said; it is wise to leave those guys alone in their Newtonian inertia." lol Newronian inertia. I wonder how post modernism concurs with newtonianism? this are the views of contextual relativism of the likes of hume and kuhn!

In any news item on somalia and somalis you would find the following prefixes: Dr (Dottore, dottoreso) Injineer (engineer) Prof (BARAFASOOR) Gen (general) Duuliye It seems that any somali who has attended a course overseas automatically becomes a doctor. Any somali who has gone to a polytechnic cause : injineer, any somali who taught at a college or university proffesor.....etc Could the solution to somalia's perplexing problems lie in the love for titles? Why are titles so important to somalis?

Miskin-Macaruuf I am kind of new to this discussion, but did you really meet those people in real life? I am just wondering because I have seen someone else write a similar post i.e. meeting many other "nomads" and thanking them!

Baashi, I agree 100%. Good observations saaxib. May I add: When I first logged on somalionline, I had to agree to certain guideline such as avoiding tribalism, profanities etc. But on a second look, these are permissable albeit in a latent way. Look at some of the nicknames and flags!

The BBC has been highlighting the aspirations and cultures of communities that rarely make positive news headlines . There are some interesting articles about somalis this week. if you want you could access these on: http://www.bbc.co.uk/leicester/voices/2002/05/somali_education_day.shtml

Raula, why do you have a kenyan flag on your bag? Why do you call other somalis walendos? Could these contribute to "hatred"? I wonder

Ballbreaker, you really made me laugh! I have not laughed this way since my arrival in london in the late eighties as a young man who thought london lived upto its name! By then, there were few somalis in the east end (WAAYT JABEL; ALDHGEEYT AND ABTON BAARK). No wonder somalis in london use MAli to refer to themselves! It is the ghetto capital of the world..... I am assuming that you have not left london to explore other places. Once you do, you will realise that Lagos, nairobi, xamar, beledxaawo, bardhere, Galkacyo , Hargeisa and borame are better towns. You live in the misfortune capital of the world sis, so, I guess you have met many misfortunate somalis!

Salaama, Here comes an article about qaad in yesterday's newscotsman. My date with Mr Murungi Tasha Kosviner With a smile, Ali told me that it would be the trip of a lifetime. Unforgettable. The room fell silent as he spoke, the men at the tables watched as he spelled out the details of the deal. All I had to do was travel to New York with two suitcases, check into a first-class hotel and wait for the pick-up. I was to be paid a fee and expenses to cover airfares and the hotel. As soon as the consignment was collected, I could do as I liked. "Enjoy yourself," Ali said, smiling again. We were in a shabby room overlooking a London high street. Around 20 men were sitting on sofas and at tables - watching and, it seemed, willing me to accept Ali’s illegal proposal. They all knew what the suitcases would contain. The stuff was all around us, and I could see what it was doing to the men who were chewing it. Their eyes were glazed, bloodshot. Some were animated, others seemed stupefied. These are the visible effects of the drug they call murungi. The hidden effects can be terrifying. Murungi is a potent form of khat, or qat - a leaf which, when chewed and absorbed into the bloodstream, produces a sense of well-being and boundless energy. In high doses it can cause hallucinations, paranoia and madness. Ali, who wanted me to smuggle two cases of it into America - where it is banned as a dangerous narcotic - is London’s Mr Murungi. He operates from a place they call Cafe Buz in Old Southall. It is one of several murungi dens in this area, where men come to buy the drug and sit around for hours, chewing and getting high. Some well-intentioned community workers say the leaf is part of the culture of certain ethnic minorities, especially those from eastern Africa and Yemen. Muslims use it as a substitute for alcohol, they say. According to the benign view of murungi, it is relatively harmless and it is not banned in Britain. But there is a growing body of opinion that says murungi is a pernicious drug that takes an appalling toll on those who use it. The World Health Organisation has ordered a study of its effects after worrying reports from medical authorities. London has become the hub of an illicit international trade. The leaves are grown in Kenya and Ethiopia and flown into Heathrow daily. ‘One of the biggest importers of murungi was Amarjit Chohan, the Asian businessman whose body was found floating off Bournemouth pier last month’ One of the biggest importers was Amarjit Chohan, the Asian businessman whose body was found floating off Bournemouth pier last month. He had been murdered. His wife Nancy, mother-in-law Charanjit Kaur and two infant sons are still missing, presumed dead. Chohan brought large quantities of murungi into Britain through his company, and there are suspicions that his murder and the disappearance of his family are connected to drug dealing. One man has been charged with his murder and two others are being hunted by police. Smuggling murungi into the United States is a major growth area among narcotics dealers. In 1992 US customs seized 800kg. In 2001 they seized an astonishing 37 tonnes - a 5,000 per cent increase. In America, where its use is spreading beyond minority ethnic groups to college kids and the ghettos, it commands a street price that makes it a highly lucrative commodity for smugglers - men like Ali. Ali was described to me as the man who knew everything about importing and exporting murungi. When we met he was relaxed and friendly and keen to recruit me into what he said was his team of couriers. We talked at Cafe Buz, where he is a respected figure; around 25 years old, well-dressed and charming, he stands out among the sad-looking characters chewing themselves into a stupor. Ali claimed he made regular murungi deliveries all over the United States. In Britain it is prized for its affordability - around £10 for a handful of leafy stalks, enough for a 24-hour "buzz" - but in America its illegality makes it more expensive. The Drugs Enforcement Agency estimates the street price at up to $50 - around £30 for a bunch. "I use four to five different airlines to fly the stuff to the United States," Ali said. "I want you to go to New York. How would you like to spend two nights in Manhattan?" He laughed expansively. He said he sends five people a week across the Atlantic, and he outlined the type of person he requires for the job. "You have to be British with a British passport," he said. "I like using young people like yourself because they look confident and innocent. You must dress well, wear a suit and do not be afraid. You will not be stopped. I have many people doing this for me. You can meet them if you wish." It was obvious from his relaxed manner that Ali felt secure in the fastness of Cafe Buz, surrounded by his friends. Some suck on shisha pipes and a sign, hung among the African tapestries on the wall, reads: "VIP Lounge. Minimum charge £7". At £5 a bunch for the best Ethiopian murungi, flown in fresh to Heathrow, VIP status comes cheap at Cafe Buz. This is one of the reasons the drug is causing such concern. One of Ali’s associates joins the discussion, saying: "You will fly to New York tomorrow. You will stay two nights or more if you wish. Then you will fly home. If you like it, you can tell your friends and they can go too." But what about the risk? "We lose maybe only one per cent of the suitcases that we send to America," Ali said smoothly. "And even then, they will not arrest you. If they find what is in the cases they will take the cases and throw them away and they will send you back to England. But you will not be arrested." Really? Are the notoriously stringent US customs officers so relaxed in their attitude to murungi? Of course they are not. DEA spokesman Will Glaspy tells me: "There are two substances in khat which are classified as controlled substances in the United States. These are cathinone and cathine. If we were to find someone bringing two cases of khat into the country they would almost certainly be arrested. "There is no maximum sentence for this offence. For some drug offences here you can be sentenced to life imprisonment." While it is unlikely that a young person, offending for the first time, would receive such a penalty, smuggling murungi into the United States could still be disastrous for such a "mule", as couriers of banned substances are known. There was a whiff of the underworld about the enterprise when Ali gave me my instructions: "I will call you tomorrow and tell you where to meet me. You will not come here again - I do not want your face to be known. When you get the call you will put on a suit, take some nice clothes for your holiday and come to meet me. We will then take you to Heathrow. When you get to America someone will collect the bags. They will pay for the hotel - two days - and take the bags from you. "They will also give you £250 spending money. Don’t worry about it. You won’t get caught. I have been sending people to America like this for ten years." He smiled again and put his hand on my arm. "You can trust me," he said. Despite claims in some quarters that murungi is little more than a mild stimulant, it is illegal not just in the US but most of Europe. And community leaders among the ethnic groups that use it say it is dangerous. Dr Iain Murray-Lyon, a gastroenterologist at London’s Charing Cross Hospital, has studied the effects of the generic leaf, khat, on long-term users. He says: "There are some reports of people becoming psychotic with heavy use, although that’s rare. I had one patient who was a Yemeni student and a heavy user, and was in a schizophrenic state. He was paranoid and quite illogical and had all sorts of delusional ideas. He was immediately committed under the Mental Health Act." A spokesperson for the drugs charity Drugscope describes khat as "a stimulant drug with effects similar to amphetamine. Chewing it makes people feel more alert and talkative and suppresses the appetite, although users describe an ensuing calming effect when used over a few hours. "Regular use may lead to insomnia, anorexia and anxiety. In some cases it may make people feel more irritable and angry and possibly violent. Psychological dependence can result from regular use, so that users feel depressed and low unless they keep taking it." This is what makes murungi so dangerous, according to Hassan Isse of the Somali Khat Project - set up to try to protect users from the ill-effects of the drug. In Somalia, he says, khat leaves are chewed as a recreational and social stimulant. But in Britain expatriates abuse it and end up mentally ill. "In some parts of London five or six out of every ten people in mental health units are Somalis," he says. "Most of their problems are linked to khat. And the trouble is that when they come out of the units there is no programme to help them. So, a year later, they are straight back in." The worrying trend is that murungi use is beginning to spread beyond the ethnic groups to young people, for whom it provides a cheap fix. One 19-year-old tells me: "You start chewing at three in the afternoon and you’re still going 24 hours later." Drug workers estimate there are around 1,000 shops selling khat leaves, including murungi and the less potent hereri, in London. Tonnes of it arrive fresh at Heathrow every day. As Ali explained to me, there is no shortage of supply. I said I would consider his offer and we parted at Cafe Buz. In the street, a group of men lounged listlessly, their eyes bloodshot, telltale green flecks at the corner of their mouths. Here, and on the other side of the Atlantic, people like this are making Ali rich - certainly rich enough to tempt young women into risking their liberty to undertake a "trip of a lifetime". Khat facts ORIGINS Khat, from the Catha Edulis tree, originated in Ethiopia and spread to Kenya, Malawi, Uganda, Tanzania, Arabia, the Congo, Zimbabwe, Zambia, Madagascar, South Africa and Yemen. Much of the khat consumed in Britain comes from Kenya and Ethiopia. CULTIVATION Khat is harvested in small quantities throughout the year - it loses potency if stored for any great length of time. It requires no fertiliser and thrives when interplanted. Khat’s dependence on water has actually facilitated technological advancements in the areas where it is grown, especially Yemen. USAGE The first recorded usage of khat comes in 13th-century literature from the Arabian Penisular. It was prescribed by physicians to treat depression and general lack of energy, and also for malaria and chest infections. Khat was utilised by peasants and soldiers to increase their working or fighting capacity through its stimulant effects. After the US Army’s 1993 debacle in Mogadishu, some military sources commented on the usage of Khat by militiamen fighting for Somalian warlords, saying it increased their bravery and pliability. ECONOMICS Khat has been cited as a major problem for the economies of Ethiopia, Yemen, Djibouti and other countries, partly because, it is suggested, nearly every family spends one third of its disposable income on the drug. A further problem with khat is the "Mafia-like" control over production and distribution. For example, in 1983, then-Somali president Siad Barre banned khat and called for food crops. However, the ban was repealed in 1990, apparently after the khat trade had been placed in the hands of his administration, triggering accusations that such a transfer of control had been the intent of the ban in the first place.

check the article "mr. Murungi" to get more details of london life Infatua LOL. Dadka london jooga safarba ma aadaan! Londoners have more BUUGAG (CEYR) than passport. adiga ma london baad joogtaa? meeshasi maxaa ku dhigay? Malaika, Meel baastaasi maxaad ka soo raadini? Maad afrika iska aadid iyadaa la qataa? At least waay hawo fiicantahay afrika. :mad: Kolleey anigu london waan ka qaxay! Mideeda kale meesha london lagu sheego oo aay somalidu degto maba aha london. waa sida xamar iyo xamar daye! You are right, there is space problem. There is scarcity everywhere, in everything! It is a weird city...left handdrive, dadkeedana waay fool xunyihiin! Sida kaliya ah oo loogu nabad gali karo waa laba mijimood oo qaad ah...that would at least keep you seeing much...casuumaad ayuu la socdaa qaadka. Aniga waxaan u soo socdaa xagaa iyo cara waqooyi ameriika. waxaan maqlay meeshu waa meel isku dhaceeyso ee bal iiga soo waran! St.paulchick, welcome to london and make sure you have a diary to record your experience so that you could share with us on return. but be careful it could be stolen!

somali, because I don't believe in the validity of somali clans! the so called abtiris is not a science! Caruurta xataa ma aaminaan! waa sida St Claus, father christmas oo caruurta gaalada loogu sheekeyo, inkastoo uusan jirin. so, I have denounced the nobel clan that I once belonged to. But I know it takes time to question the validity of tribalism. I am sure of one thing though you spare lots of cash and become free to reason as an individual because if you believe in the notion of tribalism, you are forced to have a collective reasoning............you never utilise the capacity of your brain to act and reason independently. I have been asked on several occassions about what qabiil I belong to, so I have devised a defensive tool. I am of the reer caaqil clan which happens to be part of the waan-daadshe nation.

Salaama calaykum, Shuju: May allah have mercy and help him with speedy recovery. To the others: Following the recent Iraq war, there has been numerous articles and TV-footages about Ali, the young Iraqi boy whose life was devastated by the war. What is not brought to the attention of the world is the many thousands of somali kids who are suffering as a result of the so called civil war. Cabdi's story was really an exception. How do we bring to the forefront the suffering of somali kids?

SHUJU. AN INTRESTING ARTICLE. MOST PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN GLOBALISM AND GLOBALISATION! WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY GLOBALISATION? ECONOMIC, POLITICAL OR SOCIAL? I AM A FUN OF ECONOMIC LIBERALISATION AKA GLOBALISATION: GLOBALIZATION IS A DOUBLE EDGED SWORD. ON THE ONE HAND IT PRESENTS OPPORTUNITIES ON A GLOBAL SCALE, ON THE OTHER HAND IT POSES THREATS AT THE LOCAL SCALE. BUT IT DOES PRESENT AN INTERESTING PARADOX: WHILE THE FEAR IS THAT WE SHALL BE SERVED BY SINGLE STATES, FIRMS ETC, GLOBALISATION ARGAUBLY DEPENDS ON THE LOCAL MILLIEUX IN ACQUIRING THE RESOURCES. FURTHERMORE THERE IS EQUAL ACCESS TO RESOURCES.

Baashi, I agree bro, I was listning to the news yesterday about a tribunal in Siera Leone indicting Charles Taylor, the president of Liberia on genocide. So, I don't see why they can't establish a war tribunal in a neighbouring country instead of the so called peace conference which would end up nominating those who killed the most somalis!