Originally posted by Kool_Kat: Ilaa iya hada Riyoode ugama jeedo list-ka, mise waa indhaheyga? What is this 'Samatar is a murdered' bs? Riyoode waligii kutaab madhigin baan filayaa! Morgan, Qanyare, iyo Yalaxow kuyeh... Ok let us assume that Riyaale (his real name) is brought to justice; he will claim; why not samatar? Laakin samatar has no one to point to; he is the leading member of a regime. Ma dooneeysid miyaa in Morgan, Qanyare, indhacade et al maxkamad la keeno? Cajiib. Maandheey, cajiib baad tahay. Tell SAMATAR IS NOT A MURDERER TO THE THOUSANDS OF MOTHERS in Hargeisa whose sons and husbands were butchered; tell it to the kids who were orphaned by the tanks, planes etc of the regime. And you want somalinimo? war ileen ballo!!!

Jacfar, Right (unfortunately he will be not prosecuted because of the judicial system of the US). Free your mind from tribalism kid!!! That kind of statement is why somalia is in big trouble. How are you going to prosecute the others when you don't want Samatar to face justice? He was after all the the most senior leader alive. Some of you people on these boards shame the somalis; and insult our intelligence. Tell us why he should not be prosecuted; By the way don't mention these silly and defunct reasons; - he is from a small tribe, - why don't others like riyaale be prosecuted - he is an old man -he was just following orders. I would expect any somali with an ounce of justice to say; ok go ahead, present the evidence and let the courts decide. I have this feeling that those who oppose this move are themaelves guilty through association; guilty to through lineage.

kool-kat, Dadka aan fiyoobeen waa kuwa cadaalad neceb; oo wax waliba ku eega muraayada qabyaalada! Maxamed Cali Samatar waa in maxkamad la soo istaajiyaa haddii la doonayo in cudurka soomaalida haaysta laga daaweeyo. Waxaan rajeeynaynaa in lagu xijiyo Morgan, Salxaan, Qeybdid, Yalaxow, Qanyare, Indha cade iyo burcada kale. Saado sideey ku heleeysaa gurigeeda haddii aan maxkamad la geeyey Samatar? beri indha cade ayaa oronayaa eeg samatarba waa la iska sii daayey ee aniga maxaa laiga rabaa? Samatar is a murderer of mothers and children in Waqooyi Galbeed. He should be prosecuted, lynched (that is just a dream).

I watched the video from MN in dismay! Etu Saado!!! Why don't you stick with JACEYLKU waa mira, waa miro baaxayo; landcruiser gado soo bari geley!!! You are a great singer but I see that the seeds of hatred has been planted into your brain by the supporters of injustice. Samatar should be prosecuted for the following reasons: 1) He is number two man to the XHKS; Siyaad Barre is dead 2) He was the minister of defence when the worst atrocities by a regime against its own people was committed. 3) There is a plaintif , Bashir (watch the monster next door) 4) Prosecuting him will send a signal to the other leaders that they will face the same plight 5) This is going to open a pandora's box and might make it possible to prosecute the moryaans in Xamar By the way Samatar comes from a small tribe is a lousy argument. So is the case also as regards "why only him?"; who else, you have the most senior leader alive from the regime of 1969-1991.

Good news. It maybe argued that somalis don't turn to newspapers to get news. Naxar you are right! How much of this is PR for gaining some grants? Afkuu ku soo baxaa wargeyska? By the way it seems that Xawaalaha business is the only business form somalis know! You see ads for these "usery" taking (with the tacit approval of culumas) business at every corner.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8485274.stm

Abtigiisa iyo Tusbax and the rest of you; Some of your statements lately are exactly what the enemies of somalis want; qeybiyo xukun. You should never abandon somalinimo because a clan entity called Puntland or somaliland, warlords and calooshooda u shaqeeystayaal have become modern day Judas. The struggle of the people of Western somalia (by the way, the term O-gaden is not an inclusive one)is one which almost every somali except those willing to sacrifice their honour have participated in and will continue to do so. Bisharo is not an O-gaden. She is a somali woman one and reducing her to a tribal affiliate or for a tribal cause rather than a somali(a people's) shows that the enemy has succeeded! There are hundreds/perhaps thousands that share her plight. Handing over somalis to Ethiopia is the corporate idea of Puntland, somaliland, warlords.

Folks, I don't know whether you have noticed in your part of the world but in Europe there has emerged a new breed of entrepreneurship amongst somalis (I think this is also common in other immigrant groups). I am not against engaging onself for a common good or fighting for what you believe. Taking stance is a noble thing The business idea for these entrepreneurs are; - paint a dark picture of the somalis - claim that you are doing something to change - create an organisation, participate in seminars, symposium etc - make a living out of these Case in point; Female genital mutiliation; now, I don't claim that it does not exist but the fact of the matter is that despite taxpayers in europe paying large sums of money to organisation; investigations etc, there are a few convictions or reported case. If you know of cases please tell us. FGM was a practice of the countryside even in somalia. Case in point 2 Reconciliation nonsense; I have attended some workshops on somalia organised by NGO or governments and at each and everyone of these you see a well dressed man (who cannot even tie a tie) who claims to be engaged in reconciliation and a woman or two wearing ala-tubo. The irony is that many of these entrepreneurs are still stuck in the past Case inpoint 3 The so called jaaliyad; these groups are there to compete with other for resources; it seems that it is reerkeeyga yaan laga tiro badnaanin. There are at every conference but come with little input Case in point 4 The religious entrepreurns , ahlu bariis wa qabiil. These maniac preachers have found an easy way of living; they are in the diaspora and know of the problems that confront our society in these countries and their whole religious discourse centres on issues that has nothing to do with us. They are the ambassadors for tribalism; if you tell them that qabiil is qarmuun, they accuse you of being against Allah's words. They are in the forefront of the moral decay of our society.

Guys you are making good points. Sincerely I think we are headed where no other nation/people in modern history has ever headed. We are going to be the scum of this earth (if we are not already); we are going to be known as a nation in which even those of us who are educated cannot excercise their brains but rely alot on tribalism . Already the signs are out there. The killer disease is called tribalism; how can a rational person believe in this nonsense? You may find a religious entrepreneur, the so called intellectual (village intellectual) give this disease their approval by claiming for instance; ilaahey baa yiri; tribe/tribalism is an important institution etc. We have to free ourselves from the bondage of tribalism. Just as Europe did in the 17th century when people started questioning christianity, we need people clever and bold enough to say stop feeding us the nonsense about tribalism. Maxaa tiri the qabiil fiefdoms have no future- blv you me- I have been to them and there is little that is different between them and many other semi-fiefdoms in somalia.

The conclusions here if I may summarise are: - Rent seeking by politicians and the elite which has led to malignant corruption, conflicts, and abject mismanagement of economic resources -The presence of weak institutions or lack of institutions at all - The lack of centripetal linkages (both backward and forward ones) -dependencia ; many african countries still depend on industrialised nations for everything. Underdevelopment of the developing countries happens on the behest of the industrialised nation;Hegelian master and slave -The notions of growth and development is perhaps alien to many african societies The lazy argument and that which centres on population growth without productivity increase in agriculture or any kind of activities- which my friend Raamsade fends off (Malthusian nightmare) is a factor but it is a question of the hen or the egg. As an African who has been doing some travelling and who is interested in development related issues I think we should not fear to unturn any stone (even if we may find a cobra) if we are to critically analyse the sitution. Of course there are some factors which are universal. But many countries are catching up; Latin American countries and Asian countries are doing that But Africa (yes, economic growth was in double digits the last 15 years in several african countries) but that is nothing when you start from zero. The story is almost the same.

May I suggest a documentary that centres on three issues; 1) coming to the diaspora; there are just good stories out there; you wouldn't blv the risks,the dreams the rewards, the challenges etc some somalis have gone through. some of these are very hilarious and could be sold to comedy channels. 2) Living in the diaspora; culture chocks; magaalo joog xumo, the discovery that the northern lights are not so bright after all. 3) Born in the diaspora; this leg could interview somalis who were born outside somalia (including Kenya, Saudi, Dubai). In fact, you could also interview the cantarbaqash on this forum. You don't need writers or actors. you get the real thing.

Marqaan weyn, A good topic sxb, water ( I remember writing a composition about water when I was finishing my primary school )is the singel most important resource; and could infact be used to explain wars. I have a nomadic background and the search for water is the cause of many conflicts. I have bought landrovers, donkeys, even dug a few wells , but the problem is not easy to solve We need some low tech innovations.

Marqaan weyne; That is a simplified answer soo ma aha sxb? sida magaceyga ka cad wadaad ma ihi ee waxaan ahay waranle :)ee laakin waxaay ila tahay inaan waxbedeli karno. We could still affect the path our destiny- right? Peace is not the issue bro; you could have all the peace on earth but if you don't have citizens willing to sacrifice; willing to work; willing to provide support then mere peace is nothing. Waxaan dhowaan gaaray Hargeisa bro; I was positively suprised; peace prevails, there is some development taking place; But the underlying issues of tribalism, passivity and af minshaarism is ripe.

Dear Raamsade, if you are academically involved in the issue of natural resources in general and the resource curse syndrom, drop me a message. Thanks

I have been pondering the question of "what is so good about somalis"? What are we good at? What will happen if all somalis are wiped out? will the world be different? It seems that (there are exceptions of course) we are at the lowest strata of any measurable issue. Our so called "educated" - whatever that term means- appear to be reinforcing the widely held view that they are no better than the waranles. Even on these boards, you might be decieved that some somalis have exhaled in their education- only to find that they are bearers of tribalism, regionalism, deciet and what have you. The political section in particular has become the epicenter of this disease; Even the so called owners and the moderators are a bunch of trbalists who are quick to edit or tolerate if the views posted are against (or in line with) those held by their tribe. Everywhere you go in the diaspora; London, Copenhavn, stockholm, Oslo, Toronto, DC, Ohio you will find the same kind of mentality that had forced us into exile; that has made us a laughing stock. On university campus, the bacon of intellectual and critical thinking, the somali is still the same; a figure driven by tribalism. The somali man or woman lacks the ability to think independently; the capacity to reason as an indivdual; It seems if you ask a somali sheikh, intellectual a question he/she delivers the opinion of the tribe. The so called "wadaads" have also failed us; in the good old days, a religious scholar used to start by teaching ; macalin; then becomes xir and finally become a sheikh- a wiseman whose religious and social guidances was based on ensuring social cohesion, justice and balanced wisdom. Our new breed of sheikhs/wadaads are "calooshood" u shaqeystayaal who ride with the tide; their discourse is not based on faith or truths but on a strategy to be called "sheikh i dheha". If you think I am making this up, view a video by any of the new video-preachers. Before every warlord, there is a sheikh that leads the prayer; At the guest of honour table of qabil-parliament, there is always a sheikh. When these evilmen are confronted it is not unsual for them to invoke; ilaahey warkiisa miyaad beeneeneysaa? Back to the country known as somalia; Some facts; poor nation; no resources; humancapital has been schooled in the notion that a government is the solution and provider; Its citizens are either warlords, religious zealots, welfare wackos, educated in the school of superficial and istustus. It seems that every somali wants to rule; not to be ruled; taxation an important aspect of nationhood is out of the question for somalis; never ending peace conferences have become a feature of our people- and much more. Today, the picture of the somali in the diaspora is one of moral decay (some of these are universal and could be deduced to poverty); it is not unusual to see a somali have the outfit of islam emboided but the actions are not. I know that some of you might not agree to the above and mention entrepreneurial spiritism that exists; that the majority are still good decent peace loving; that you are doing good in the US, Canda, UK etc! But, I challenge thee; Contemporary pseudourbanists are in a sea of lie, an ocean of boasting about nothing. Where are we heading? How shall we overcome the moral , societal and political decay of our people? Contributions needed.

I wish I had the time to fully respond but I don't. Sac baa qoobka igu haayo. Raamsade, I agree with almost every explanation you stated with a few reservations; the Malthusian nightmare theory is not neccessarily wrong when discussed in the right context. The resource curse postpulate and its cousin the dutch disease are not absolut bro. Even in the african context, the resource curse faces the challenge of explaining why Bostwana -just to take an example- fared well. Note that the Sachs and Warner appear to have ignored resource rich nations , e.g. the nordic countries, Australia, Canada in their assumptions. BTW, the resource curse theory and the many other theories in this field get inspirations from Malthias, Rostows and the rest of the bunch. Muridi, good point; Poverty is a relative concept but economic performance is a feature of explaining poverty. Piouyet; Technological profilerations and knowlegde are the cornerstones of growth/development. So is literacy; and maybe that is the reason why Asians have done better. But that does not sufficiently explain the differences. MirsterAjc, I have the same kind of approach as Raamsade when he noted that he does not subscribe to Malthusian nightmare theory to Jarred's assertions. I have read the book and although he explains some historical facts that cannot be discarded he appears to be reinforcing the widely held notion that western nations have superior minds.

All I want is peace for somalia Meiji and right now Bay, bakool, gedo, jubbooyinka are having a peace bonanza; My heart aches; Xamar cadeey and Hiiraan are burning; two regions known for tolerance and harmony. For many in somalia (you and I are enjoying relative peace outside somalia), it doesn't matter if peace if brought by what you call religious warlords. Dayniile Goof maku leedahay adigu Meijow?

I see some changes in your attitude Muqdisho son; You wrote " "Sh.Sharifs and his foreign-created regime" Many of us realised this on the eve of his selection by warlords and tribalists in Djibouti. Mar dambe ayaad soo toostay; waa arrin fiicanse. My niece will have said "Caqli lix sac" You forgot to mention the time when Yalaxow, Qanyare, Bashir Raage, Qeybdid and the rest of the child killers were humiliated by a popular endogenous movement. Those who support Hotel sharif don't want Muqdisho to settle... think about that sxb

Meiji, Muqdisho, the cradle of somali civilization; the economic hub of somalia and the multi-"ethnic" (read qabiil) city deserves better than warlords, afminshaars and sheikh Hotel. Uztaad, Daynile used to have wonderful GOOFs and a radio antenna; it used to have the only municipal bus services. Someone was telling me that it became a district. I have a friend from Daynile, so if you want a goof drop me a line; it will be hot property; there will be a property boom.

Meiji, and where do you stand bro? Xaalka soomaaliya islamist, kacaanist, leninist, marxist wuu ka weynyahay. By the way I want to read more about your strategies regarding the future of the "M" society. You never know I might be a supporter.

Uztad, LOL Maye ee waxaan doonayaa inaan GOOF ka gato? Adigu markay yareyd miyaa baska "Abu-raas" oo u socodo Daynile lagugu xumeeyey ?

The Zack, Clan domain name? Daynile is a district in Muqdisho and has nothing to do with a clan name. If you mean websites that cater to specific clan goals/agenda/aspiration, show me one that isn't saaxbib. All of them are the same (at least those that I have been to) in twisting the news/or disregarding to report issues when it fits them. I have yet to see a site that is pan-somali. They are all rotten

Mugdi mudug ma maqashay weligaa Cawke? Ahmed Fashion, Pakistan ayuu joogaa ee xuu ka ogyahay arrinta dhabta ah oo ka dhacday mugdi mudug.

The Zack, Yes, that is a big problem saaxib. I think joking about websites ends when one writes about how an indvidual looks. My take is this; Daynile is not the best "truth"telling website but it is not the worst.

Originally posted by Ismahaan: quote:Originally posted by Cowke: Fool xuma badanaa ruuf yaan kaani waxaays oo kale baa somalidu ka dagi ladahay dadka intaas isku diraya walaalahaa. :mad: Maxaa kaa galay foolxumadiisa, malaguu alkumayaa? Dhubad, Azzaro is actually an expensive brand. Daynile is not different from other websites- so cut the crap saaxibiyaal. How many times are we SOL visitors exposed to vicious propaganda? I wonder why no one wrote a thread about it.