TheEconomist; with all due respect, what we are witnessing is the indiscriminate bombardment of innocent women and children by what is supposedly a government that on paper is to protect them. Your quote was selective (read the the whole article). Are you telling us that the killing of innocent women and children (watch the newsreels) is a propaganda? Do you read the economist? the last editions were about the war in somalia. Do you think that is a propaganda? Check the BBC, Reuters and other websites. Alot of civilians have been killed; Many of them shelled by the puppet regime. If you think the current conflict is between the IUC and government forces, then we have a problem of a problem. It seems that you have been fed a loaf of propaganda. Whatever happened to critical thinking- don't they teach that in schools nowadays? How can someone become "dawladiid" when the "dawlad" shells its own people?.Give my a logical explaination sxb.

^^^^^come again!

keynan22, " anarchists "? what is that? "smoked out of their holes" isn't that someone else's line?

So the intelligent somali economist wants to equate the deaths of 73 civilians with that of a stray morter that killed 10 more innocent people? Why did you only quote those few lines? this is a classical case of selective reporting. Whatever happened to the core principle of equilibrium? How would our economist answer the question of why a supposedly somali government lashes morters at its citizens?

"where are the TFG supporters?". The TFG supporters are busy debating somaliland/puntland skirmishes or are trying to find ways to spin the genocide of civilians. My guess is that some of them will soon introduce threads calling innocent women and children terrorists or that the clan courts are on the run.

What is "somali politics"? Is it the fadhi ku dirir? Is it the Path dependent madaxweyne, janan, wasiir, xildhibaan ma i dhaha? Many somalis recall the 70/80s when somali "politics" was a key to better life. They envisage becoming Prime minsters, ambassadors, (power bases). Have a look at some of the proponents of the puppet goverment on this forum. They support attrocities because they expect favours (some of them see an apportunity to make a living). Breaking the vicious cycle of path dependency needs a paradigm shift. Poverty sustains path dependency. The question should be; How do we tackle poverty? tribalism and encourage people to work hard to make a living instead of investing efforts in becoming partime politicians a la somalia? You have witnessed what happened on SOL and in the field in Muqdisho when the puppet government arrived. The first thing we saw was people supporting the genocide of fellow somalis. I guess many envisaged the chance of becoming pwople of power.

"Calaacal". ma af soomaliga ku yar? Let me remind you that the objective of this thread was to air our views. I think if you don't allow to call people who support the puppet government dabadhilifs, traitors etc but you allow "Tribal courts" "high on qaad somalilanders" etc we have a problem. It is simple; You either allow every word to be wrote or you don't allow sensitive , deragatory terms etc. You should have a uniform policy! As a visitor to this site, I am constantly confronted with threads that mock, ridicule some tribes, some communities and condoning the death/rape/opression of innocent somalis. On the other hand, it is not uncommon to see edited messages when the opposite is done.

Maskin, Widaayow, aniga ayaa xasuusta- oo been igama ah; arrintaasi waay dhacday, waxaana dhaci karta inaan anigaba yara fududaaday. Looma baahano in la soo faago; mana aqaani si loo fago. Tan labaad; Waxba hagaagi maayaan haddii aan maska madaxa laga dilin; boogta haddii aan si fiican loo dhayin bogsoon meeyso. Xaqiiqdii waxaay tahay in SOL si isdaba jooga ah loogu aflagaadeeyo qabiilooyin badan oo soomali ah. Haddii la doonayo in meesha aay noqoto malka ray'iyo kala duwan ka biyo cabaan waxaa haboo in dadka la sino. WAA SUAALE; Copy and Paste ma ra'i baa? Maalin waliba waxaa dadka boogaan akhristo la kulmaan barabagaan laga soo xigtey dawlad ku sheeg, barabagaan lagu aflagaadeeynayo dad soomali ah; Ma kula haboontahay in dad badan oo soomaali ah loogu yeero " dad ilaah qaad ka dhigtay?" Ma haboontahay in la yiraahdo "dawlada soomali waxaay la degaalsantahay argagaxiso markii la laaynayo caruur iyo maati"? Arrintaan waan ku dheeraday, ujeedadeeyduna ma aaysan ahayn inaan dood furan; laakin waxaan qabaa in haddii aad dooneeysaa inaad meeshaan fiicanto inaad tirtartaan copy and paste. Wax ama waa la wada fasaxaa ama isku si ayaa dadka loola dhaqmaa- soo ma aha? Ilaa iyo hadda ( I hate to say this) waxaa ii muuqato in la fasaxo dadka qaar inaay meeshaan ku qoraan wax waliba; qaarna toosh lala daba socdo. Maalin wanaagsan.

Maskin, There is no shred of doubt from my side that you don't like the dabadhilifs. BUT, for the first time since joining SOL a few years back, you edited what I wrote on Abdullahi Berlaawe; I was responding to a comment by Duke; and you edited a few words. But that is fine with me, if you doomed that I crossed the line, I accept it with grace. I am for criticising issues/persons of power etc. But, if someone redicules a whole community (there are some examples above), then you should take some action. If someone copy's and paste a hate message, you have a responsiblity to edit it/remove it. There are several copy and paste articles that are on the first page of the political section in any given day: Most of them is a one sided propaganda; Do you accept this maskin? What would have happened if one copied and pasted messages from Kismanyonews.com, qadisiya, waaga cusub? Bro, what we are witnessing on a daily basis is tribal vernom from a few individuals; we see how people, tribes etc are constantly rediculed on this site. We see how murder of innocent women and children are termed as a conflict between government and tribal courts!!!! We see how the killing of donkeys in Afmadou are called killing tribal courts. etc. Sometimes the truth should be said; and I don't understand why you are dithering here. SOL political section is no longer a place that suits somali interests. It might have been an oasis of pluralism but since the Baydhabo process it is the TFGs extended hand- and this has happened through paste and copy, malicious editing of those who comment on this, and mocking those who oppose. I think, it could regain its glory if you could caution against copy and paste. Wa bilaahi tawfiq

Asalamu calaykum, Maskin, I was tempted to respond to this thread. I recall you editing some comments I made on the so called president of somalia, the stooges called warlords (turned ministers) and for responding to the bombardment of innocent civilians/animals in the south. Somaliaonline was one of the few websites that was worth visiting. But that has been lost. Today it happens to be one of the few websites that appears to be the mouth piece (a propaganda machine for the amxaaro lackeys). It is not unusual to be confronted with topics that specifically target some tribes ( cf; how the resistance is refered to as " tribal courts", how tribal explicit tribal comments are made when tribalists meet in somalia). The latest comments " calling a large majority of somalis for qat induced bravados etc). The day I lost hope on what is written on somaliaonline was when a somali woman was reported to have been raped. Several of your members were on record praising this vicous acts. The same applied when thousands of innocent civilians faced the ruthless bombardment of the TFG and Ethiopian troops and the paste and copy articles filled this place praising the "progress" of the TFG in engaging "tribal" courts. How would someone whose relatives live in Muqdisho react?????? Alle-U baahane, the character indeed needs Allah. He makes some not-so-wise comments; But if one looks at the way he is treated infront of your naked eyes as moderators, he is a saint. We have some people who explicitly make comments that is tribalistic but are not edited or told to cease with their comments. This is unfair; -don't you think? SOL has to choose whether it wants to become a channel for somalis to discuss their differences, political hopes and wishes, and put forth what kind of nation we want; or to become a mouth piece that promotes one region/one tribe. Thus far, it is no different from Waagacusub, allpuntland, Daynile and the other tribal websites. Visitors are daily confronted with paste and copy from websites that support the TFG. Unless that is banned, many of us will remain sceptical about the mantra of this place. If you are sincere ( and I am sure you are), ban the character(s) that are official propagandists for the TFG. My advice to you is 1; Do not allow paste and copy 2: Edit those topics that have explicit/implicit tribal messages 3: Encourage messages that carry a somali perspective instead of a regional/town perspective To conclude, please do not differentiate what kinds of strategies to apply to different people. A sceptical eye notes that Moderators are like voltures in articles wrote by selected people; while their absence is defeaning when there is a topic about "tribal courts" " Qat induced bravados! etc. There you have it maskin; I might be unfair but that is how I see things. Ps 1; If you think what I wrote above is worth editing, please let me know ( I am willing to accept a self imposed ban) P.s 2: where is "Horn afrik"? sxb, waxaad moodaa inuu nalkii kaa demee?

Abu, you beat me to it! I am also out. I have come to the conclusion that many who claim to speak for somaliweyn and somalia are in actual sense tribal bigots. I have never supported one side or another in regards to the conflict until the IUC entered the scene. I did not agree with many of their discourse; I did not like some of their social actions. But I loved their message/visions for somalia. A somali nation that is free from the plague of tribalism- A people that would be healed and reconciled. I agree that it is not that good to debate with somalis who are driven by clanism instead of common sense and intelligence. The current events in Somalia have brought out those good somalis and those who were disguised as somalis but were in the actual sense bigots. It is surprising to learn that a few months people were on record mocking and condemning the culture of warlordism. They were quick to use the somali flag and claim that Muqdisho and the south were in the hold of criminals. When the IUC took over and their tribal bases challenged these somalis turned against their intellect and supported one leader or another based on clanism. I am appalled when I read the caption under the names of the majority of those who support the puppet government; It says " Puntland" and somalia. The support from these people for the puppet government is not based on love for somalia but a a warlord turned dictator and this is a bad precedent! I know that the majority of the people in Puntland don't support the puppet government- but that by itself is disheartening! Yet I am very proud of those of us who claim to hail from somaliland. Many of them have revealed a side many of us never knew existed. They appear to stand shoulder to shoulder with their brethen in the south. Thank you somalilanders keep up the good work. Goodbye dear somalis who would love to see another somalia emerge. Partime quislings would disappear due to the dynamic nature of somali conflicts. Macasalaamah.

Brother Khayr, soo dhowow. Long time not see your contributions on SOL. Never mind the quislings on the political section; they would soon fade.

Only a quisling would think that the british daily telegraph is a tribal outlet! How pathetic!!!!!! It is questionable why SOL has become the home of quislings who spin stories.

This "Dinari" dude makes me throw. He is on record as saying they killed many people- their bodies are everywhere- and adding and rejoicing " I don't know who were killed". His body might look like that of a squirrel but he appears to have the brain of a tin.

The last somali head for the waaxda "socdaalka" Allaha ha u naxriiste Nuur Bidar was dragged on the streets of Muqdisho. Now many somalis know that his death was a wrong death. This ape, Gaafow" might face the same fate. This time it would be justified.

Yes, the same people who condone the actions of caydid, af biijo, yalaxow, maxamed dheere and the rest of the warthogs as the "elected" representatives of the somali people. These same people have the guts to tell us that the murder of innocent herdsmen in the south is reported as a "number of people were killed. Enemies. But we don't know who was killed". There are positions to be filled; The somali ambassador to european and north american cities is at stake. Abu- Geeljire, give them a few months and once the invading forces turn their back on the TFG- or the puppet president or the prime minsiter leaves office, you will see them lend support to the IUC they loved to condemn.

Some people would go to lengths to invoke matters that lie outside the discussions concerning the invasion and rape of a nation by a puppet government. Cyber quislings!

Abu- Geeljire, This sounds like the weapons of mass deceptions (WMD). Utter propaganda. The Ethiopians could line up hundreds of somalis with foreign passports who went to Muqdisho to visit their families after years of turmoil and call them jihadists. But the international community is smarter than the WMD debacle.

Where are the cyber quislings who day in and day out defend the actions of the puppet government and the injirleeys?

Captain, What is so emotional about that paragraph? It is funny that people use words without knowing what they mean.

Duke, I have read the "digniin from the moderator" so I guess I have to mind my language ( I am not going to make you look like a fool- because I risk being warned). If you think the IUC members were all from Mudug, you ought to seek some medical assistance. That is a lie. For the benefit of doubt let us assume that Indha-cade and Dahir Aweys ( I have never heard of Cayrow, cadaani and the other guy)are "warlords". How do you compare them to AF Biijo, Caato, Caydid, Huraale, Maxamed Dheere, Qanyare? Do you have anything on Sheikh Shariif, Sheikh Maxamed Ibraahim Suuley, Sheikh Turki, Sheikh Ibraahim and the other 80+ members.? The rise of the IUC was a result of the fall of warlordism as a governance. The TFG has rejuvinated warlordism. All those responsible for raping the somali nation are back in power.

Duke, the majority of what you call the people of "puntland" support the IUC vision of eradicating clanism. But you and your few fellows on this website are equating PUNTLAND with Af Biijo- and that is a shame. You have opted to lend your finger muscles to a government led and nurtured by the culture of warlordism. Af Biijo will sooner or later kick the basket and when he does that, one does not need to be a rocket scientist to figure that you will cease your support. I think you should be rewarded for your efforts. Writing 8000+ articles (actually most of them are copy and paste from tribal outlets) should not end in vain. You should be appointed as an ambassador or nabadsugida aalada internetka.

Gen. Duke, if I bring it on ( I have attempted that several times on SOL) you can not stand it. Common sense dictates that I shouldn't even exchange a sentence with you- so lousy are your arguments; so juvenile are your points of departures, so futile is your message. But I have subjected my intelligence to torture and tried on several occassions to reason with you.

Duke, But your primary support is for the ailing, and butcherer of somaliweyn- right? Have you got any idea about what is happening in Bay, the shabeeles and the jubooyinka following the takeover by the puppet warlord based government????? Come on dude. You don't support broad somaliweyn rights. You support Af Biijo simply because legend and myths say he comes from your clan. Walaahi, Bilaahi Talaahi, I have yet to see a man who personifies tribalism as you. You should be ashamed. You are shaming the people of Puntland too.

Jacaylbaro, You have to understand the gist of this topic. Our friend Duke has been cornered. To many his support for the TFG is based on bigotary. He has explored all sources of divisions; searches websites for information that may result in a debate that might the TFG off the hook. And he has failed miserably.