GD, whatever. Have you heard of kafka? That is what your short retorts force respondents to be. So long! I will be back on SOL when Abdullahi Yusuf kicks the basket and you cry foul. That is the difference between us; I am on the side of the powerless somalis, you are on the side of awarlord!

Should I laugh? Are you a soothsayer(btw; someone who reads palms)??? I asked you to prove that I idolize-- and all you could come up with is this? I remember your laments on this forum a few months ago when you wore "somalieconomist" but abused the basic tenents of the science. I hate to insult my intelligence. I shall therefore not respond to your accussations above. However, it is worth noting that a common trend on SOL from the supporters of the TFG is that they call those who don't share their tribalistic idealism "ICU supporters". With this kind of replies no wonder there is an intelligence drain from the political section. keep using that line of argument and very soon you will be responding to yourselves!

Good old chap! You and I are somalis (let us spare ourselves what non-somalis write- for the sake of argument). This so called government which you love is composed of warlords, tribalists, murderers, rapists and what have you (TERRORISTS) who have stuck the somali name ito their A-SSES. Would resisting them makes one a terrorist? Those who are fighting it do so because of different reasons; religion, nationalism, economic. I have yet to see a good reason why these thug (aka government) should be supported.

Let the supporters of the "P-uppet) government tell us. They are good at deceiving the world and cashing on the terrorism ticket!

In that case we have different dreams. Mark my words, even if somaliland gains "independence", there will always be somalilanders who want to attend meetings in somalia; those who feel that independence should be revoked; etc. Somaliland authorities would have gained alot if they came with a communique that states individuals have the freedom to go to any meeting- but officially, they wouldn't participate. The Mogadishu farce is not an inclusive one. It is a meeting of warlords.

GD, do you sincerely blv that those who throw mortars and attack the da-abadhilif government are "islamists" alone?????

Gordon, If you want to make a point, you don't " cook lies"; did I idolize anyone????????? what do you mean by idolize? Read what I wrote. ( Where the hell were the likes of you when somalis were murdered in 1998? In 1991? and the subsequent 15 years???????It is easy to differentiate a tribal bigot from a sane somalis nowadays.

Jaceylbaro, Do you want to live under an adminstration that wants to curtail your freedom to go to meetings? Is your dream of somaliland one that dictates? "Those individuals are not going to the conference to say they are by themselves but the issue that they will say they are represending the whole nation. " I say let them do. The world knows that as the many other delegates they are CALOOSHOODA u shaqeystayaal who are tempted by a few dollars and not a common cause.

"IndaCade and Xasan Dahir, Cirfo, Goobanle, Ayro and Abdiqasin" What about Qanyare, jeele, Huraale, Suudi, Maxamed Dheere, B.raage, Shaati Gadud, Abdullahi Yusuf, Ali Mahdi and the rest of the warlords? they are members of the dabadhilifs. Terrorists.

And why do you support this ********** (DA_BA_DHILIF) government, anchored by a beerless warlord? The answer is simple; you do it not for the good of somalia/somalis but because of tribalism. Goebells is turning in his grave in Deutchland when he realises that his propaganda for the nazis is potent in 2007. The country is not Gernmany but somalia. I have yet to see a somali who supports this farce called TFG except hard core tribalists (many of them deprived of basic human intelligence).

Quite frankly, as much as I hate the TFg and their tribal bootlickers, this move (if it is true) makes a mockery of the case for somaliand. Is somaliland not a democratic government with indvidual freedoms? I say let those who want to participate in the meeting to give approval to occupation and genocide do so! Banning and giving orders is why somaliland was victimised by the Afweyne regime in may 1988. If somaliland wants to be different- a nation- it should be different. Banning, curtailing freedom, rule by dicreto etc means that it nothing of significance has changed!

^^ you have to wait for three weeks because I am catching a flight to Africa in an hour.

I have it in audio, together with a real blues song "walac anigoo ku seexday maxaan welbahaar la toosay" i don't think you will find a link with the lyrics, it is vintage!

Geel.-jire, what is so "blasphenous" in the title sxb? There are individuals on this website who hold the views of the TFG. They worship the culture of warlordism, hatred and everything evil. so, what is wrong with naming them?. You will see them use every opportunity to glorify the ocupation of our people. They will use every opportunity to copy and paste articles that support the ***** government from tribal sites. How many times have we read articles where some individuals are named as 2 IUC2 supporters? anti-TFG supporters? and in the worst case " Clan" lovers. I think what kashafaa has expressed is mild.

What does the word "Mujaahid imply? I don't know how he died, but I finding myself singing some of his songs (lyrics; Abdi qeys): "Heestaan waa xasuuso, xubin weeye gaaro nafteeydaan la xiqiyo, i xanuujineeyso, yaan xumaati loo qabin" Ma xayirin danaha guud, mana gelin xumaan ebid, xabashina uma gelin Xeebataa jabuuti, soomali laga xaday haddii aan xagaa tagay ma jibinin xeerke maxaa laigu soo xeray? Agoon xoolo kama dhicin, xog dalkeeyga ma anan bixin xeebtaa jibouti soomali laga xaday ma jibinin xeerke maxaa laigu soo xeray?

"Witnesses said police shot the 20-year-old man after he defied orders to stop, as he was crossing into Somalia with a donkey cart laden with food and household items." Doesn't sound an islamist. Judging from the history of NFD, the madaxkorankor are back to their tactics of intimidating ethnic somalis. The man killed was probably a small trader whose aim was to make a living. This kind of actions is what somalis in western somalia and the NFD encounter under the gumeeysi hands. It is a revenge killing. My bet is that a lot of women have been raped, countless people have been arrested and suddenly any somali in that region is a shifta (wrong;actually an islamist) that is the buzzword. So vicious is the gumeeysi. Xaduud ku lahaa! Maamulka degmada Beledxaawo???? Gedo-NN waxba kama ogo wax meeshaasi ka dhacayaao.

I don't know about his religious background, but a few years ago, I think I read on the daily nation that he has somali blood. His grandfather Hashim or something like that married a Luo woman and the rest is history.

Will they pay compensation to the herders whose donkeys and children were killed? Would they appologise to the somalis who were shelled? Would they appologise for asking civilians to leave their homes? I think Yey could be wiser if he announced his departure from office. That would be the prelude to reconciliation. Geedi should also do the same. The majority of somalis see them as traitors- and as long as ppl blv that, I am pessimistic. "disgruntled clan fighters" LOL. Isn't Hubsireed a disgruntled clanist? We have disgruntled clan websites like garoweonline... mm. FOOD FOR THOUGHT!

Ok why don't you leave us (those of us who are ****** enough not to be able to debate) to discuss the issues? Nurse the wounds of gumeeysi, cry our beloved people and write a few "oneliners" to curse the ********** doowlo? Judging by this thread, the oneliners, those of us who are not able to debate as you put it appear to be scrambling some few words of wisdom, remain civil and potent in regards to somalinimo. Sayid, arrintu ONLF waay ka weyntahay. Waxaayna u taala "soomali"iyo dadka Da-badhilifka " u ah amxaaro/amadax koraankor. The lackeys are driven by one simple issue; qabyaalad. The same lackeys would side with you if things change. I am not from soomaaligalbeed, soomaliland or djibouti.. But when a somali suffers I suffer. It is simple. Sidaan ayaa noo dambeeysay; innocent somalis suffer but all we see is tribalism. Allemagan, waa tahay sxb.

Allmagan, "OK, macallinka, may you find someone to debate with you in extremly pleasant way. " I asked you to explain what you mean by "mask"- and you reply sarcastically???? You should know that SARBEEB is my surname. Anyway, address the issue as summarised by Geeljire above; or spare the keyboard.

"the prerequisites for a fruitful and comprehensive debate between the different political opponents of SOL. " 1: what are the prerequisites for a fruitful and comprehensive debate? 2: the thread was not about SOL. READ: the thread is about the atrocities committed on somalis. "mask". Could you please explain what you mean by mask. Why do I get the feeling that You are probably used not being challenged. By the way there are no political opponents on SOL. There are dabadhilifs blinded by tribalism and sane somalis who see things differently. I wish there were opponents.. but as the saying goes, if wishes were horses beggers could ride. How can a thread on the rape of somali women become irrelevant? I could debate but the vernom on this site is repulsive.

I can't stand the flawed logic of the appologists. Somalia has been in shambles for the last 16 years (for somaliland, almost 20). Who is to blame? I don't think the IUC as an aswer would score that much. Somalia has been dying because of the members of the TFG. The attrocities in Xamar today is partially committed by Ethiopians and their henchmen who happened to be warmongerers. As a matter of fact, Abdullahi Yusuf was the founding father of the culture of tribalism that our nation witnessed. Maxamed Dheere, Abdi Qeybdid, Jeele and gacmodheer were the key players who created this mess. and guess what appologists, these nasty warlords are today called ministers, police commissioners and what have you. When a thread such as this one on the occupation and its aftermath is posted, appologists are at hand blaming the IUC. This is an insult to our intelligence. Even the global actors know the reason for the emergence of the IUC, what they have accomplished is never questioned. Any sane human being would never support the thugs called the TFG. There is no moral ground to support them. I guess when the marauders of today's muqdisho change their tone and engage in a massacre as they did in 1991, many on this forum will be on record cursing the TFG and praising the IUC. So, tribalistic is the stance many somalis take today. We are so shortsighted, overcome for the love of tribalism, freed from intellectual thinking capacity.

Originally posted by NGONGE: Heh. I see Khashafa is busting yet another blood vessel! Could this be termed a tantrum? Bas, adeer, bas..xuuxii xabashiga wan dilnay..bas, adeer, bas On a serious note, I don’t see how this thread is allowed to stay. It serves no purpose and only aims to provoke. Are there threads that do not invoke on this section? I thought you were the spokesman for the right to invoke movement

and....?

There are some people who always blame the IUC. The IUC did this, the IUC was tribalistic, the IUC was the reason for Ethiopian invasion etc. The reason they do this is not because the IUC was bad parse but because the IUC probably fought the warlords- and as such undermined the tribal structure some people wanted to have in somalia. The irony is that these same people are beating tribal drums; you will see them praising warlords; they are quick to bring tribal news to forums like this one; they praise everything that their tribal leaders do even if that speaks against their personal concious. Intellectual bankrupcy is the word! Seduction by tribalism is another word! These cyber warlords are the extended arm of the dabadhilifs, qabqables, afminshaars and other words from the Afweyne legacy. It is a pity that these people write a few words (most of their contribution is pasting). If you challenge them, expose their weaknesses you are likely to reduce yourself to their standards. When they express naked tribalism on forums they have protection; when you address something that reveals their objectives, an invisible hand comes to their rescue. A Kafka situation. If we want to look for causes for our plight we could talk about the Afweyne era(he is the one that is responsible for the death of somalia, somaliweyn and all the other terms we have come to love), the Caydid era and the the culture of warlordism that followed. The IUC was not the cause but the consequence of many years of hatred. A shrewed eye will note that some people actually supported Indhacade (the alleged thug now) when he courting the like of Huraale in the defunct JVA. Now these same people call Indhacade something else. If the tribal balance changes next month and their tribal strongholds are attacked by the ***** government, I bet they will praise the IUC. We have already seen that.. didn't we? Back to the thread; this is a tragedy that has befallen our people. It should be condemned in the strongest words possible. We shouldn't blame the IUC but Yey, Geedi and the the TFG, because during their short reign at least Amina, Salma and the others were not raped.