Duke, What is not clear? Is it the truth that is bitter? Your one-liner stuff does not work. Let me ask you a simple question; Since you (and many TFG supporters) proudly state that you are from the puntlnad state, the question is why do you care about Muqdisho? Spare us the cool-aid of Muqdisho is part of somalia sheeko baaraleey when you are answering. Who are the elders you are refering to? and the looters? Waka cadeey; We are sick of this sick insuations.

Duke, What is not clear? Is it the truth that is bitter? Your one-liner stuff does not work. Let me ask you a simple question; Since you (and many TFG supporters) proudly state that you are from the puntlnad state, the question is why do you care about Muqdisho? Spare us the cool-aid of Muqdisho is part of somalia sheeko baaraleey when you are answering. Who are the elders you are refering to? and the looters? Waka cadeey; We are sick of this sick insuations.

The puppet government????? Who is going to enforce the law: Wasiirka Dhuusada? Xaarka? Kaadada? We are the laughing stock of the world.

Cimrigaaga raagey geel dhalaa aas ku tusaa! What a befitting saying. Duke, The warlord- Maxamed Dheere- and "killer" turned police chief- Qeybdid" - that you are currently glorifying were the same people who you last year were blasting for calling your lovely madaxweyne names. Xaggee lagugu soo hagaaga? How on earth could you support Abdi Qeybdid who evidently (there is video evidence) murdered innocent civilians in 1991? Warka maad cadeeysid oo tiraahdid qabiil X oo la degaalsan qabiilka aan ka dhashay ayaa la laaynayaa? This kind of posts should be removed because every sane somali can read the tribal factor; simply put this article and the rest of your paste and copy posts has the following thesis: Qabiilka la yiraahdo x waa kuwa biliqada dadka ku haayo, sidaasi darteedna waa la laayey. If the tables were turned could this blatant tribalism be allowed on this forum? The same goes when you are commenting Kismayo and Hargeisa. You are disguising tribalism as "dawlad".

Cimrigaaga raagey geel dhalaa aas ku tusaa! What a befitting saying. Duke, The warlord- Maxamed Dheere- and "killer" turned police chief- Qeybdid" - that you are currently glorifying were the same people who you last year were blasting for calling your lovely madaxweyne names. Xaggee lagugu soo hagaaga? How on earth could you support Abdi Qeybdid who evidently (there is video evidence) murdered innocent civilians in 1991? Warka maad cadeeysid oo tiraahdid qabiil X oo la degaalsan qabiilka aan ka dhashay ayaa la laaynayaa? This kind of posts should be removed because every sane somali can read the tribal factor; simply put this article and the rest of your paste and copy posts has the following thesis: Qabiilka la yiraahdo x waa kuwa biliqada dadka ku haayo, sidaasi darteedna waa la laayey. If the tables were turned could this blatant tribalism be allowed on this forum? The same goes when you are commenting Kismayo and Hargeisa. You are disguising tribalism as "dawlad".

Cimrigaaga raagey geel dhalaa aas ku tusaa! What a befitting saying. Duke, The warlord- Maxamed Dheere- and "killer" turned police chief- Qeybdid" - that you are currently glorifying were the same people who you last year were blasting for calling your lovely madaxweyne names. Xaggee lagugu soo hagaaga? How on earth could you support Abdi Qeybdid who evidently (there is video evidence) murdered innocent civilians in 1991? Warka maad cadeeysid oo tiraahdid qabiil X oo la degaalsan qabiilka aan ka dhashay ayaa la laaynayaa? This kind of posts should be removed because every sane somali can read the tribal factor; simply put this article and the rest of your paste and copy posts has the following thesis: Qabiilka la yiraahdo x waa kuwa biliqada dadka ku haayo, sidaasi darteedna waa la laayey. If the tables were turned could this blatant tribalism be allowed on this forum? The same goes when you are commenting Kismayo and Hargeisa. You are disguising tribalism as "dawlad".

I forgot to add whenever I read what you and your ilk post on SOL, I lose hope in somaliweyn. In fact I am of the opinion that I will rather live under Amxaaro occupation (God forbid) instead of sharing a nation with you! Because you don't care about the Baydhabo, Muqdisho and Kismayo people but only what your clan accomplishes in terms of ethnic cleansing . I pray that people from Puntland don't share that kind of sentiment- qabiil before qaran. Spare us the somaliweyn, baydhaba sidaan ah talk!

Duke, Yes I am sad: Aren't you? Our nation is in ruins, our identity is at stake; our people are starving; dying? Our government consists of warlords; wasaarada Xaarka, dhuusada, kaadada; our existence is at stake. We should wear ASAAY(if you know what that is). Unlike you I show sadness when my people (somalis) are killed by other somalis. What do we have to celebrate?????? I was yelling the same words when Waqooyi Galbeed was bombarded; showed anger when Muqdisho was cleansed 1991; When Baydhabo was starved; and now when your ********** government is killing civilians. Let us hear what your position is! You and those who spot the Puntland map ( I am frank here) are bringing shame to every woman, child and man in Puntland by offering vocal support to a quisling named TFG and hailing the massacres of women and children as a progress for the government. You don't need to be Einstein to note the tone of your copy/paste (mainly from Allpuntland) is directed at a particular tribe. In addition, when ever the name of somaliland is mentioned, you are like a locust telling us about somaliweyn. ps. I don't know why your tribal vomit is tolerated.

May he rot in hell!' Emporer(don't throw stones if you live in a glass house) if anyone should be banned it should be you and the others who constantly declare a victory when helpless somalis are massacred; when you explicitly engage in naked tribalism, when you quote qabiloutlets and when you are on record calling for the cleansing of Muqdisho. I can't utter the words "allaha ha u naxriisto" to people whose actions have resulted in the murder of innocent somalis. Don't insult our intelligence; You and some of the neurtrals on this site don't care about Muqdisho. All you care is to line behind Abdullahi Yusuf

Xoogsadoow, waa runtaa laakin; I recall a year or so ago when a guy who was a regular (he had a weird name O-something) engaged in a copy and paste articles from Dayniile, Shabelle etc which were laden with tribal hatred. This guy was banned (rightly). There was a political correctness on SOL; no article that offends a group/tribe. Moderators were quick to remove and warn. What we are witnessing today is not different; It is not unusual to read "somalidiid" "insurgents" "defeated groups" and several other labels that emplicitly have tribal connotations. The same yardstick should be used- don't you think? Afterall this is a venue for somalis of all regions/tribes. This is not allpuntland.com, daynile is it? I have a friend whose next of kin perished in the bombardment that took place on friday. A whole family was wiped out when they were eating a meal. If that friend of mine and logs on SOL and find Dukes and Naxar Nugaaleed's article called women and children insurgents, defeated groups, clans- how would she feel? How would she feel when she reads that the majority of those who condone the actions of the TFG/Ethiopian troops proudly wave the flag of Puntland?

I always find it hard to vote (there is a left-centre-right label). when Sir I Berlin (one of my favourite liberal)wrote his papers in Oxford he was not aware that his views would be developed by Hayek, Friedman etc and embraced by the likes of Pinnochet. The same applies to Marx and Engels whose views were used by Stalin to kill. The right-centre-left scale is a western phenomenon- and people who not are institutionalised in that kind of environment get lost. In my neck of the world it is not unusual for somalis who have arrived the last 8-10 years to classify themselves as liberals or socialists without understanding the ideological cement of the party.

Naxaroow, Yes I have the nerve to lecture because I never blved in that nonsense. I am not a slave to the system of tribalism. I don't hail from Muqdisho or Somaliland (if that is what you think) Free your mind bro. Don't be a victim of it. It damages your intelligence. Once you become a slave to the culture of tribalism (and there is ample evidence that you are), your reasoning becomes too shallow, too one sided and too primitive. A year ago, I was under the impression that every somali is good- that the civil war somali witnessed was a bracket in our history and therefore we could move on. How wrong I was. Prove me wrong brother; the only somalis[sOL] (Allah forgive me for the generalisation) that support this farce called TFG are people are people who proudly wave the flag of puntland and hail from Garowe and Galkacyo. You hardly see a somali from Bosaso, Las Canood, Sanaag, Somali galbeed, waqooyi galbeed, NFD and the south lending vocal support. That is the nasty truth.

^^^^ Bro, I don't think your statement of " everyone somalis are represented in the effort to fight the occupation" is 100% true. I have yet to see somalis (on SOL and in the fadhi ku dirir sphere) who hail from Garowe/north Galkacyo question the occupation and its wrath on civilians. There are some of them who give the impression that they are neutral but it does not Einstein to figure that that is a lie. My guess is that were the table turned and the occupation, killing and shelling etc took place in Garowe, SOL would never have allowed the kind of topics it does today (see how the killing of donkeys, mental patients and women are called cleasning Muqdisho from insurgents). Xataa SOL far ayaa ku mudan! Something is fishy- and that thing is called revenge.

Naxar-Nugaleed, Ma af ingiriiska ayaa kugu yar mise fahanka? bal af soomali ayaan kugu qorayaa waxaan qabo markale: Dhamaan dadka sida waxashnimada loo laayey waxaay mudan yihiin in loo "ooyo". Adiga iyo dadka kula rayiga ah oo malkadaan SOL wax ku qoran, waxaa cad inaad raali ka tihiin in soomaalidda aan ka imaanin Garowe iyo Waqooyiga galkacyo la gumaado. Bal eeg waxaad la soo shir tagtaan! Waxiina ma aha ra'i ama soomalinimo ee waa QABYAALAD. Odey waayeel ah (Abdullahi Yusuf) ma inaad u durbaan tuntaanbaa? War waa la xishoodaa! Waxaay soomaliya la degi la'adahay waa dadka sidaada oo kale ah oo cabay sunta qabyaalada.

According to Puntland post and Duke, donkeys, mental patients, young and old are part and parcel of the insurgency since they belong to the wrong tribe. Were these people and the donkey for that matter were killed in Puntland, they would have been given labels such as daraawiish, mujaahid etc. It is depressing to read some of the subtile logic governing some of the threads on SOL.

Yeah, ninka waalan, hooyooyinka, odayaasha halkaan ku sawiran waa "insurgents" http://www.shabellenews.com/2007/november/n13787.htm Laay maxaa kaa galay waa qolo hebele! Puntlandpost=qabilpost

Seekknowledge: Yes I condemned when Siyad Barre forces were killing innocent somalis; Waqooyiga galbeed, mudug and muqdisho When caydid was killing, raping and subjecting somalis to human suffering When the culture of warlordism was rampant (17 years); and Now when my people are indiscriminately killed by Ethiopians and the puntland thugs called wrongly as government troops. Even donkeys are not safe( check Duke's thread where he glorifies the killing of "insurgents" by citing puntlandpost- a mouthpiece of tribal hatred- check http://www.shabellenews.com/2007/november/n13787.htm). So tell us who do shed tears for? Let me guess the puntland thugs? The invading army of Ethiopia? The killing squad of Maxamed Dhere? Claiming that since no one shed tears for previous victims and as such current victims should not be mourned is an intellectual hypocrisy! That is not seeking knowledge but desiring distorted knowledge.

Asalamu calaykum, A few years back I read a book which he coedited with someone else. There were several chapters written by Kusow, Maxamed Mukhtar and others. The thesis of the book was that the concept of tribalism is an elusive one; They made a mockery of somali tribes! I fail to see how that kind of scholarship will be lured to take a position conditioned by tribalism. Laakin wax waliba waa la arkaa. I thin somali does not need an "intellectual" punk. What it needs local solutions of governance: Thus, we should reconsider whether the concept of government is good.

Xoogsadow, Almost 8 months ago someone said to speak for the TFG (Azhari was the name) called on residents to flee from towns. The same call was repeated by the "mayor" Of Muqdisho maxamed Dheere (the warlord". These two reprensentatives broke the charter of the united nations on human rights; It explicitly states that governments should not force civilians to flee their homes! Our SOL friends( TFG ambassadors) would say that Muqdisho is calm and everything is usual.

yeah, the same Geedi that was a saint a few months back! Maxamed Dheere(guilty of murders) was once a thug, a warlord and had a monkey brain- nowadays (upto now) he is the MAYOR of muqdisho- eeg how is nacnac is reported! I agree with almost everything that Heikal wrote but he should have put the geedi exit in the context of the TFG (he shouldn't have spared A/Y his wrath). The truth of the matter is that almost everyone that is said to represent the TFG (from yeey to cambaro jilicow) is a thief, a thug, a killer.

Castro "Simply looking at this forum, SOL, you can see some of its manifestations. Of course, a little study and deeper analysis often shows the frauds being perpetrated. But not all of us want to see the truth. Some of us are quite happy living in the lies as long as our concocted realities are not disturbed." Afkaaga malab lagu shug- lafahaaga janno la geey akhi!

Asc, It hurts to say this but even SOL(forum) once an all somali website where sanity prevailed has become a propaganda source. It has become a place where people claiming to represent Somaliland and Puntland engage in venomous exchanges not by virtue of the art of arguments but by relaying news from tribal outlets. Waa suaale somaliddu ma waxay degantahay oo keli BUNTDLAND iyo SOMALILAND? Meanwhile southern somalis suffers; Occassionaly someone fetches an article on the plight of southerners; you may find someone claiming to represent XXland (oh boy these nuts are proud to be XXXlanders!) finding justification for the rape, murder and abuses by the TFG on fellow somalis. The only reason for these evangelical hallelujahs (the TFG did this, did that) is because a punk that reigns from their region/tribe has been granted the "madaxweyne mar i dhaha" title, or that they see a chance for their tribe to "rule" a region (it is not unsual to see childish news from a village called city). In the same light somalis in western somalia are massacred by Ethiopians and the reported incidents are thwarted by nasty forumers who see the reports as a threat to the TFG (sorry- the tribal government) The jewell in the crown was when a so called prof - Geedi was appointed as the prime minister- When almost every good somali (there are a few of them on these boards)was reacting to the maiming of somalis. The tribalists were quick to rally behind Ali Geedi- he was mind you the PM of their president- and as such he should be supported. When it was later reported that Geedi and Abdullahi Yusuf were not on friendly terms these same people turned against him. The "discussions" I beg your pardon- the tribal rants- sometimes are clearly directed at a few tribes (It is SOL- correct to hurl tribal hatred to southerners). I have read a few nasty threads disguised as news where some particular tribes are mentioned- and nothing is done about it. It is not uncommon for people to claim to have something against the IUC- but in real sense the message is based on tribe X. Those of us who want to see a nation beyond the tribe have been given three options; 1) To join the buggers and in the process become voltures that feed on tribal xaar- and in the extention become victims of the stockholm syndrome! 2) to keep our fingers off the keyboard. 3) write a few lines now and then to satisfy wants. What should be done to remedy? There are three alternatives; a) Remove all censorship- and allow every kind of propaganda (it seems that the propaganda allowed is one sided)and you make SOL look like somalinet. b) Please reinstate the SOL forum that we had 2 years ago! c) rename the political forum; somaliland-puntland cyber attack web. I am for b! P.s I might have crossed the line as to what could be written on SOL- and I am willing to take the consequences- even if that means being banned from the forum- d.s

Asc, Dabadhilifism is the ONLY corporate idea that functions in a defunct, poor, tribalistic state. "Grown, seemingly educated men, in the homeland and the Diaspora, singing the clan tune and, as if on cue, wearing their keyboard-general attire to go to war while their ignoramus cousins fight futile, meaningless battles to "capture" a few hundred meters." SEEMINGLY EDUCATED; SINGING THE CLAN TUNE; That says all! (cf., so called political forums)

"What was he really thinking?" He was probably high on HAREERI and a dose of marqaan talk. I saw a picture of the so called Madaxweynaha puntland in a military outfit (these Salaad cali jeele look-like ape was rallying the masses). That is what has become of somalia. Massacre loving apes!

Asc, I feel your pain Jaalle Sophist. Alle maxaay hurdo la'aan igu dhacday december. There are many of us who cried when the Ethiopian tanks (with the help of quislings, conflict entrepreneurs,tribal warlords) massacred women and children. Some of the members of SOL were rejoicing when helpless refugees were targeted (we have had Goebels, Maxamed Sahaf and men who used the words of history's propaganda chiefs praising these killings). and many of us could not stand the constant propaganda of the SOL members who never saw beyond tribalism and took time off. (Some of these have susbequently become opponents of the TFG when they saw that their respective tribes did not gain anything). It is interesting to note that many members on this board are clan ambassadors. Their views are dynamic and depend on tribalism rather than for the good of somalis. The irony is that many of these people reside in the relative comfort of western nations. The Las-Canood issue is of course painful to those who families are caught in. But as far as I know the "invaders" are non other than somalis (by invaders I mean the so called puntland darwish, the somaliland armies). Somalilanders should not count their chicken before the eggs are hatched. This conflict costs money (they are not using sand), it will destablise the peace that eluded many other regions in somalia. Taking a village might result in an all out war. The Las caanod problem and the many conflicts in the making (Bosaso exprienced gun fighting yesterday) is the result of the TFG actions. Lacking popular support anywhere save a few pockets in Northern Muqdisho and northern galkacyo, these thugs thrive on conflicts. It will be easy to blame it on foreigners, other tribes and islamists. I hate to use the word liberate (popular on these boards). Liberated from who? if there is a territory that should be liberated (in the actual sense of the word as used by the United Nations- self determination- it is somalia that has a case. Somalia was invaded, is in the hands of thugs. Somali galbeed is facing starvation, killings etc at the hands of the ethiopian army). The NFD is suffocated by the madax korankor. For a sane somali the issue of liberation evolves on living in peace. It does not matter if the somali entity that brought peace is called Puntland, somaliland and any other land prefix. But I guess sane somalis are few and far between (look at the political section)!