What golden rule? The title says it all! zero tolerance on tribalism or allow it! Duke wrote: As for the topic, the confusion stems from their lack of understanding and planning" What do you mean by "understanding and planning"? elobrate

^^^^ qabyaalada tooska ah lama oggolo saaxib. Yeel sida Gen Duke iyo kooxa kale oo qabyaalada lafaha ka gashay oo u soo labis haddii kale meesha waa lagaa mamnuucayaa. Xiin, as long as the reconciliation process involves the members of the now defunct TFG, the warlord parliament appointed in Doofareey and tribal entrepreneurs we are doomed yet again for another failure. What somalia needs -if there is to be a long term solution- is radical changes not incremental changes where the status quo is maintained. Having the doofareey appointed thugs, the warlords and a few disgruntled elements from IUC will not solve our problems. We need to break with the past. So called peace processes- we are not short of that- are almost exclusively based on reaffirming the importance of heinous tribalism in our society. We need a new mindset; there is life outside politics!

Alot! A stimulating job , an intellectual capacity to analyse issues and financial independency to name but a few things that I have achieved "from my education". Education does pay in way or another. The claim that the best education can be achieved on Joe street is a cliche

Cali Maxamed Geedi and Azhzri were the extended hand of Abdullahi Yusuf. That rules them out. Qanyare, Gacamodheere et al are warlords aka ahlu dagaal oogeyaal. Dadka kale oo fiican ma haaysaa akhi? This process looks like a bad copy of the Doofaarey process..don't you think? Another warlord for the presidency!!!!

All indications are that the ethiopians have not withdrawn from Somalia. They have changed their tactics; arm the former warlords under a new banner "Al yalaxow" and start a civil war outside Muqdisho. Let qaad chewing qabilists perform the task!

Demagogue, Let us give some credit bro! Xiin's caravan has thus far brought; 1) The ousting of a warlord turned president who retired to qabilistan 2) The onset of Ahlu dagaal oog aka ahlu sheeydhaan wa qabiil. Garaso, Huraale, Firimbi and the rest of the gangsters 3) Maxamed Dheere has been humiliated. He does not have a chance of joining the ahlu-huguri wa jaahil. He will probably apply to Al-shabaab . This is a major achievement of the caravan! 4) Sheikh Shariif aka I love flying and living in hotels while I have subjected thousands to danger aka Xiin's hero is a clean shaven, qabiil laden and xukun doon soomaali. My sources therefore tell me that good old xiin has two options; 1) Inuu u sacbo tumo ahlu hunguri wa qabiil and its leader in the making Sheikh Shariif and introduce a topic; finally the peace caravan has settled and my name is Sheikh Nuuraani nabadoon and I am a member of ahlu soor wa hunguri! 2) Inuu goobta iska tago maadaama uu fashilmay o0o uu la baxo Abuu-oon (son of thirst)and arrange for a new caravan. Xiin will probably opt for alternative 2

They came to support the tolka , they tortured the innocent people of Muqdisho. They were finally humiliated!

Originally posted by Malika: ^You got to understand where Xaji Xiin's stern beliefs come from as a believer I don't think he believes in despair and hopelessness. He knows there will come a time,when the voice of unity will speak and declare to the people[somalis], which will declare with unfaltering voice a unity through GOD and brotherhood of men[somali].Hence his belief the Sheikhs would be those whom will deliver this peace eventually. As for old Somalia,it sure was a far better Somalia to the Somalia of later. Well, there is nothing wrong in dreaming but reality is another thing. Despair and hopelessness will continue to haunt us if we do treat only the symptoms as Mr. Faniin wrote. We need a thorough investigation into the disease before we treat it. Yeah, yeah there will come a time--- but when will that time be? It is already too late for the thousands that perished while waiting and blving. There was nothing good about the old somalia. In fact we couldn't have been in this position if there was no old somalia. We need bold moves; rethink taken for granted issues; question everything that we thus far have held as positive attributes of our society; look for solutions in yonder don't you think?

Hayaay!!! Old somalia??? War ninyahow ma laguu soo maray?! Are you out of your mind saaxib? Wasn't it the old somalia that created the situation we are in now? Let me tell you the old Somalia you love ; Dictatorship, warlordism and thugs of power. You may need to read and critically analyse the old somalia before you call for its rebirth bro. In a sane world peace settlements beget peace and harmony but in the somali case so called peace settlements are the begining of new death; why? because we don't learn from our past. Instead as you wrote above many of us engage in a nostalgic nonsense that in the end creates mayhem. Think of the people and not the territory. Dhul waa la helaa laakin ummad lama helo; and the way things have been thus far very soon you won't have the people to populate your territory

Xiinow, Soomaalidu waxaay ku maahmaahdaa run iyo ilkaba waa la cadeyaa saaxib. Nabad la dhoodoobay waxba ma tarto. Symptoms ma la daaweeyaa saaxib mise cudurka. Besides you asserted that this caravan will allow for the coming of a new somalia. There is no new somalia unless we speak the truth and leave the " jaalleyaal sacbiya". For us to witness a new somalia we need those seven issues to be addressed. Well, I admit some of the- at least the one regarding the partition issue is not one that will attract many- but I am the "devils advocate". I guess the core question is what sort of somalia do we want? One that lives on doses of Prozac or one that is sane, prosperous and longterm. Be pragmatic bro; you seem to be living in a bubble if you think a new somalia will evolve out of the ruins of the TFG, warlordism etcetc.

A travel ban and the freezing of assets appear to have the trick! But will the international community continue these potent strategies?

Xiinow, I have to give you credit for introducing this topic when I doubted the coming of the peace caravan; the declaring of persona non grata on the warlord president "selected" under a formula called 4,5 evidently using the somali ashaahado LAILAHA ILAA qabiilkeeyga mooye; the change of hotelbeds from Djibouti to Muqdisho. But let us not celebrate prematurely adeer. Somalia's problem is more than Abdullahi Yusuf and the eminent rise of Nuur Cade and the hotel change of sheikh Sharif poses some challenges. The fabrics of ourway of thinking should change. Hal booli ah nirig xalaal ma dhasho widaayow. The international community appears for the first time to have devised a formula that may solve the somali problem; threats to freeze assests and travel ban. Geeljire urbanists loves to travel to other nations. Abdullahi Yusuf realised that he cannot be able to travel abroad; not even to get medical attention; To the dismay of his buraanbur loving supporters he realised that sooner or later he will exist in disgrace. The road to a viable peace or to use your words peace caravan could lay in the following; 1)Establish a human rights court for somalia; all those who have committed heinous crimes should be tried. Abdullahi Yusuf, Shaati, Yalaxow Qanyare, Huraale, Indha Cade et al, Cabdi Qeybdid, Daraawish and known warlords making up the 4,5 parliament should be the first to be arraigned. WE NEED ACTION! 2) The so called 4,5 formula should never be used as an element of reconcilation. What somalis need is an ideology (thanks Marx for this terminology); Islam (used by the IUC), communism (Siyaad Barre) or good old geeljirism without materialism may be ok; Ilaahey iyo geeleeyga. 3) Partition Somalia; Let somaliland and Puntland go their own way (I am guilty of treason but I don't think the new somalia needs qabilism which appears to be in the blood of those who call themselves Puntlanders and Somalilanders). There are some small pockets where there are ounces of somalism e.g. Sool, Sanaag and parts of Bari (these should be allowed to leave these enclaves and become parts of somalia; This may involve Baluchustianism mm.. 4) Somaligalbeed and NFD together with the south could form the future somalia (these two entities should be incorporated into the new somalia). 5) Sheikh Shariif Axmed should leave the scene. He has lost the support of the popular masses. Romour in Muqdisho has it that Sheikh Sharif, Nuur Cade and Maxamed Dheere might take Muqdisho back to the Caydid/Cali Mahdi days. Already we can notice that Sheikh Sharif has changed from the "saint" to " some kind of a warlord". 6) There should be some way to include Aweys, Robow in some kind of power sharing; They have been part of the problem and should be part of the solution. 7) Release all prisoners held by Abdullahi yusuf's henchman (Daraawish)from Muqdisho's prisons. xaad leedahay maandhow? Intaasi ma dhaceeysaa Xiinow? Wax kale waa sheeko baaraleey

^^^I agree she is better off than others

Duke ( aka leader of the brady bunch) Have you seen the waizards of oZ? Nah, you have not watched it; You are bankrupt in words and intellecual capacity to understand things; so vernamous is your hatred ; you are blindly following a lame presedentM You are the straw man; you don't understand my points and hence arguing with you might make me look like the fool you are Could you please paraphrase your statements in simple english or somalia; or even better ask your tribal bradey lunch brethen (there are some that are understandble) to make a contribution that I can comprehend. Because your are pushing the bush; The old straw man issue! Why don't you watch the wizzards of ozz and come back to me?

Nuunow Maandhoow abdullahi Yusuf, Nuur Cade and the rest are patients of power. Surely, the United states and western europe are not this ****** to support human crime abusers. They should enforce a ban on travel and a freezing of assests; Somalis love travelling and money

why does SOL allow daily doses of crap from Duke? Will you have allowed the same BS a few years ago from Abdiqasim/Caydid supporters? The credibility of SOL is at stake!!! Ps. Moderator ; I am readyto face the consequence and be banned if these words warrant a ban! I am voicing the concern of many SOL members and others who visit SOL. The credibility of SOL is at stake.

Duke, the leader of the brady bunch ; aka Mr. Iq=0, the laughing stock of SOL. Let me for the sake argument assure you the follwoing since your your command of the english language is the same as your inability to reason; I hate Muuse, Indhacade and all the warlords that have bestowed the culture of deciet, hatred and tribalism om our people I don't think Sheikh Shariif can be able to bring lasting peace. Now tell us why you are blindly following a lame duck? If you are looking for the good of somalia, why do you display tribal leaders as your signature? This is a valid question; You give the impression of a pan somali solution, if that is the case, then why are you supporting Abdillahi Yusuf and the tribal chiefs of Puntland? I am sure you cannot prudently answer those questions,. You are in essense a cyber warlord- a supporter of Abdullahi Yusuf- and Puntland; Nothing wrong about that but please don't enagage in somali issues; leave it to Horn et al. capito?

Tyrone Biggums xuu ka walax yahay? Ma waxaad ka daawataa Tvga?

Duke (brady bunch leader aka warlord supporter); My plot(house) has been occupied by Muuse Yalaxoow ( that is where he built) his moowlac) if that is a comfort. Abdullahi Yusuf is guilty of murdering thousands of somalis for the simple reason of ; Madaxweyne mar i dheha! Jaceylboro, aka internet addict; maxaa ka jaban af soomaaligeeyga maandhoow? Mise waxaadaan garaneeynin af soomaaliga ( Ever heard of the waizard of OZ?) Timir laf baa ku jirta: Minaad maqashid soomaaliland ma saar baa kugu soo dego? Alla ya kutuma ininka?

Ayoub, this topic is an experiment; I am proving a hypothesis; Adigu ma soomaaliland gang baad tahay? Tell us ; Hypothesis; SOmaliland flag wavers on SOL care only about recognition; H0; maya H!: haa is cadeey maandhow

Brady bunch leader; I hate both Qanyare and Indha cade; they have to be in the ´Hague; am I bankruppting you son? Screw them and Abdillahi Yusuf, how about that? You are unto your old "below intelliengence level trick"; you are assuming that I belong to the same clan- read primitive notion; News son; I don't buy that crap. Let see what you have to say- another one liner? Or do you expect SOL to rescue thee? LOL I am a baadiye boy, a proud one actually; President abudullahi yusf? Isku xishoo saaxib

Duke (brady bunch leader) How about if we screw Qanyare and Indha cade : the warlords; Duke first...go on. be my guest:) Son, I hate Qanyare and Indha-cade with passion; I would love to see them abused by "qaniisiin";Do you hate af - biijo? I forsake all warlords; do you forsake them? To me Af biijo, qanyare and indho cade are the same; should be in the Hague; let us read your stance. But again you have no ounce of somalinom; you have tonnes of qabiilnimo.

Che, I am not accusing thee. On the contrary I am praising you for the rationale understanding you have shown!

Asalamu calaykum, My man , brother xiin, my good old somali and probably one of the sane people you meet on cyberspace. Momentum defined as a lame duck, a hotel lobby sheikh sharif, a prime minister who judging by words is serious but who we suspect is mischieve; and the usual cyber-fadhi ku dirir boys who want to fool SOL forumers with the talk of somalia while waving a puntland flag not to mention the neutrals (read cyber qabilists and scum) has indeed arrived. Kashafa and my good old boy abtigiisa iyo tolka - two noble guys whose stance is the reason why some of us are addicted to SOL; to them one injirleey=no peace; One da-ba-******= no peace ; al shabaab= al sharaf Che, maskin and the rest of the true "neutrals" doubt has begun to ascend; momentum= change of clothes and not hearts and minds. Toloow arrimuhu waa sidee? Horn, our good old man who appears to be logical but who adhores Huraale; wait and see; momentum=as long as Huraale has a chance of redemtion; charmeleone; it is about the voice of the tolka; if the tolka are given some parts of mandeeq, there is momentum if not waa inoo dagaal Odweyne and co; as long as there is a campaign to dislodge the stooge- read lame duck, there is a chance that there will be a momentum for somaliland's presence and in the extension a lasting peace in the south; the perils of puntland will in the end benefit the south and somaliland; Shanqeeyr alalaas; sheekhow duceey. Is cadeey eebowgeey; is it a peaceful somalia for somalis or somaliland at any cost? Hashu maankeeyga gadayaa tolow ma minsaar baay liqday? The nasty brady bunch; the dynamic Af-biijo-lackeys- warlord lovers because of tribalism- praise every choice made by the lame duck; now suddenly Gacmo-dheer- a warlord is a hero; Ali Geedi the former prime minister was praised but condemned nuur cade like wise. The laughing stock of SOL. how can they call for somalia when they proudly display puntland flags??? Aided and abated by SOL adminstrators (no lie zone) these brady bunch have changed my mind about somalia. They are making me insane in the membrane ( I am about to call for the petition of somalia)! Subxaanalah, istaaqfurlaha. Is cadeeyaa; either puntland or somalia; either warlord injirleey d-aba****** or somalia? Romour has it that SOL=brady bunch (what a shame!). I say Mr. Xiin ( I respect your views- very noble indeed) there is no momentum; what we have is back to the dark days; Nuur cade is surrounded by tribal bigots( read maxamed dheere and salaad cali jeele, muuse suudi). Expect massacres of poor puntland boys taken to Muqdisho by Af biijo and an all out tribal war (Allah fobid); Sheikh shariif - xaal qaado; hoteel jiif leader- is already ( he is clean shaven) calling for the stay of Amxaaro; he is the new warlord; islaanimo as a business idea. A khamiis wearing warlord in the making??? cajiib walee madaxnimadu ummaddu waay waashaa; eebowgeeyga xaad rabtaa minaad madax noqotay? very soon maxamed dheere, jeele, dhuxulow and ali gheedi will engage in a wacdi! As I said before, another peace process, a new parliament, another TFG; waa ISKUYERAR lambaro unno maandhoow! No momentum; it is the same old - albeit a bad copy. Somalia's problem does not need a momentum:it needs some thoughts

Without knowing whether these guys are guilty or not, I would say that a common practice used by European countries is fear tactics. A few months ago the Norwegian secret services and their swedish counterparts announced that they have arrested 6 "assumed" terrorists in a joint operation. These terrorists were of somali orging. This was headline news in Europe. They were later acquited. The German police did the same as regards these guys. And when these cases come to the courts there is no sufficient ground for prosecutions. Two conclusions; a) The secret service agents are not doing their jobs properly; there is a justified fear concerning terrorists but the real (terrorists) are no where to be seen. In their absence the secret services need to feed the "scared" population with news about terrorists operating from their backyard to get legitimacy. b) The large numbers of somalis in western countries (not sufficiently) integrated and the failed nation pose a threat- and if there are terrorists in the midst of european cities then somalis make a good case according to this reasoning. The police would have arrested these guys and the ones in Oslo and Stockholm without feeding the media about "suspected" terrorists being arrested. They would have achieved two things by doing this 1) Not losing face 2) they would have refrain from "dubbing" a whole community (somalis) as terrorists. Either way the damage has been done