Brother Salafi that article did spark some introspection. Prayer is indeed the Ark of Salvation in a stormy sea of hypocrisy. Shukran Jaziilan. With Salaams PK

To you Jamaal 11: I have perused your post, and I will start by asking you a few questions and making some comments, before going a little deeper in the subject with you. My comments will follow the order in which you wrote your thoughts, to make it easier for all to follow. You said: "life in essence is one figment of a continual dream and that dream is the true and permanent status of man kind " to this i say: 1.you must provide proofs for this (and i have read both of your posts completely), or at least use a clear syllogism where you state your premises clearly 2.you must define dream 3.you say in this sentence that the, on the one hand, life is a dream, on the other that it is true and permanent. this requires clarification; perhaps your definition would help. You said "all monothystic religions is 'pre-destination' of events and actions in our lives " This thread is about the reality of life, and so I do not see it here appropriate to get into this issue. Never the less, I must at least say that it is clear that predestination cannot be accepted if one believes in God's justice and in God's wisdom. At this point, since I do see a line of thought in what you say, but I do not see a system of thought (ontologically and epistemologically speaking at least) I would ask you to read or to use Leibniz' works in your arguments, because they are clear, and represent a system which we can understand as a whole, and so, it would become clear where everything fits in the system. You said "our souls existed before the creation of bodies and minds. But with creation came what is called life. If life wasn’t there then it would mean we would have existed as a soul only and in dream" The existence of the soul is not tantamount to existence in dream only (unless you prove it, or so define it). It is simply another dimension; an immaterial one. We may not say that because it is not material then it must be not real. You said "a cosmic universe" What is a cosmic universe? You said "Dreams are not touchable, they exist in their own cosmic universe where souls escape to when they leave the bodies behind. So what I mean here is that dreams are the reality and life is just one figment of dreams among other things." A lot of points are made here. Let me number them and simplify them, so that the inconsistency becomes manifest. 1.dreams are not touchable 2.souls exist in their own realm these points lead to 3.dreams are the reality 4.life is one figment of dreams So, from this, life is one figment of reality? and dreams are real, so life is real, by virtue of being a dream. surely you see an inconsistency in this I will employ the principle of charity. Perhaps are you saying that the realm of the soul is more real, because it is not material. but then 1.this would not mean that the material world does not exist 2.you would have to prove that point, namely that the realm of the soul is superior, and explaining why 3.you would have to explain your alternative. is it idealism (as it seems when one first reads your posts), or something else? You said "We live we die and when we die our souls sleep till resurrected by Allah on the judgment day. When the souls are resurrected, if lucky, they will then exist in the truest dream. A dream that would last forever, one which all your needs will be met through thoughts and wishes. " I will not comment on the eschatological statements you make here, we are not at this point yet. But I must ask: if this life is more a dream, and the next is similar in quality and different in quantity (more "true"), how would you define reality? what, or how, would reality have to be in order to be "reality"? or are you simlply replacing "reality" by "dream"? this would indeed make you a sophist, for I would fail to see the purpose of this thread. Otherwise, what is the difference between your "dream" and my "reality"? Are the laws, the principles, the results... in any way different for me and you, if, for argument's sake, i was a realist and you were a an idealist)? You said "Life is simply a process by which God has created to test Adam and Eve’s worthiness of paradise, if we, being the sons and daughters of Adam and Eve’ pass the test before us now, then we will go back to our home, which is paradise. Adam and Eve’ were in paradise but were thrown out to life and earth to prove themselves. " Once again, you have stepped outside the line of philosophy, and into theology and revealed religion. I completely disagree with you here. Life was not created to test adam and eve, but us all. Adam, peace be upon him, was not created for paradise, but for earth, as the quranic verses clearly state. I do not think that you accept the theory of the Original sin, but you certainly seem to be making a point for it. If it is indeed your belief, then say so, and we can discuss it, perhaps in a separate thread. The paradise of adam and eve is not the paradise promised to the righteous and virtuous among us after death. The laws governing that paradise are indeed far from those of the one where adam started out. When we say that we will go to heaven, or paradise, it is not the same as the one where adam dwelled a little moment. With Salaams PK P.S. By the way, have you studied philosophy? After 11 years of reading, I must reluctantly say it is becoming borish.

Granted, mockery and lampoonery are justifiable under certain conditions. In the examples you cited it was justified. However, the lampoonery posted by you is not parallel to the ones employed by the holy prophets. The lampoonery employed by the prophets of God did not involve making a mockery of their religion, rather the religion of thier opponents. You have made a mockery of Islamic Christianity not christianity. Should someone have ill conceptions of Allah will I mockingly entertain his misconceptions; clearly, in the process I would be saying things of Allah that I should not have the audacity to pronounce. I dare not to incite examples of this sort. Ta'caala allahu can daalika...... With Salaams PK

In the emptiness of a flute a silent wind swept through echoing out a slow melody which this fire burns to Its scorching flame awakes the sun the scars of night cleaved apart by the horizon bleeding upon lost autumn leaves the cries of the flute increase burning the lonely leaves as it please scattering them like ashes through my veins Oh you golden saffron flower dressed in thorns.. Burn me Ever since I saw the veil on your face the curiosity of what lies beneath became ablaze I ran through the valleys of night to perhaps find your burning light like a falling star lifetime flashed by me slowly my moon was buried in solitude’s sea now the gloomy waves move my cry.. Burn me Washed up on a lost island I silently stretched forth my hand touched only by the whispering breeze as I prayed there on my bare knees through the flute moaned the soul’s hunger the unspoken words bore no longer screaming out all the pain.. Burn me My love burns even this fire that inside me blossoms just higher see the agony that in my eyes glow tears of betrayal from its depths flow the water of my life is drowned in hate that even the gazelles lament my state I cried once and a thousand more will come.. Burn me Don’t ask how long I shall burn as purity is the only thing I yearn the path of love are not for the weak tranquillity you may somewhere else seek a true lover knows only pain and so he is called insane now let the weary-hearted flee as my soul longs to be set free Burn me.. By Brother Ehsan; a true mystic.

Sirrus et al In spades redoubled, I could not have said it any better myself. With Salaaams PK

Originally posted by Salafi_Online: your kids...Send them there...Its a place where Shirk is promoted...critical thinking(Ahlul Kaalam)... Brother Salafi critical thinking is not synonymous with Ahlul Kalam or Islamic theology. I do not think that you are implying that those sciences promote polytheism and Shirk. Having studied Islamic theology and/or dialectics, I am intimately acquainted with the subject. If you have any questions regarding the 'ilm al-kalam please send me a private message. With Salaams PK

I think the question is more aptly enquired if one paraphrases it to "Should we fear Death". We should not fear death per se as it is an inevitable reality; we should fear Allah, for He is the sole judge on that dreadful day. Ancient Philosophers have always claimed that Death was a boon and not a bane. What say you with respetct to this? With Salaams PK

"We are not terrorist, nor moderate, nor fundamentalist nor traditionalist nor secularist. We are Muslims, we declare, that there is only One God, One Power, Supreme that is Allah, and Muhammad is His messenger. We have surrendered completely, to Allah subhanahu wa ta’ala" An excellent summation...... With Salaams PK

"We are not terrorist, nor moderate, nor fundamentalist nor traditionalist nor secularist. We are Muslims, we declare, that there is only One God, One Power, Supreme that is Allah, and Muhammad is His messenger. We have surrendered completely, to Allah subhanahu wa ta’ala" An excellent summation......

The post by the O Jay character was repugnantly reprehinsible. I do not understand how and why a response can ever be dignified. Equally important although less conspicous is the unjustifiability of the lampoonery, nay, the reply is one notch less disgusting. I believe the O Jay character will not see the reductio ad absurdum and will simply develop a personal animus towards the author of that post. What has the author accomplished but agitated, animated, and angered a woeful soul. Ofcourse one reserves the right to respond in the manner he/she so chooses but you must not be decieved. You want to help this person (an islamic obligation) as opposed to belittling.... With Salaams PK

A soul uplifting article ,indeed. Thanks Salafi. The cardinal reason as to why Muslim are less fearful of Allah is ignorance. In order to fear Allah you must have knowledge of him; and without genuine knowledge one shall never taste the sweetness of Iman. With Salaams PK