SOMALIA: Saudi beheading of Somalis "grossly unfair" Amnesty says [ This report does not necessarily reflect the views of the United Nations] NAIROBI, 8 Apr 2005 (IRIN) - The public execution of six Somali nationals in Saudi Arabia on Monday was a shocking abuse of human rights, according to Amnesty International (AI). "Six Somalis were suddenly executed in public on 4 April without being informed in advance that their five-year prison sentences, which they had served - and also been lashed - by May 2004, had apparently been changed later to death sentences by a secret procedure," Martin Hill, Horn of Africa researcher for AI, said on Thursday. Ali Sheikh Yusuf, Abdel-Fatar Ali Hassan, Abdullah Adam Abdullah, Hussein Haroon Mohamed, Abdul-Nur Mohamed Wali and Abdullah Hassan Abdu had been detained in a prison in Jeddah, one of Saudi Arabia's main cities, since their conviction for theft in May 1999. AI said that the trial of the men, said to be migrant workers from Somali capital Mogadishu, had been inconsistent with international standards on fairness. The six Somalis were unaware that they were at risk of death, according to AI, which said it had written to the Saudi minister of interior regarding the men's status, but had received no response. Decrying the secrecy surrounding the Saudi Arabian criminal justice system, the human-rights watchdog said that most defendants and their families were not informed of the charges against them, nor of the progress of legal proceedings. It further stated that defendants could be convicted solely on the basis of confessions obtained under duress, torture or deception. Trial proceedings took place behind closed doors, AI said, and those accused had no right to legal representation - while in the case of foreign nationals, inadequate or no access to consular assistance was allowed. AI put the total number of people executed in Saudi Arabia in the last four months at 51, almost two-thirds of which were foreign nationals. It called on Saudi Arabia's King Fahd to commute all outstanding death sentences, and to bring Saudi trial proceedings into line with international standards. According to the Somali press, human-rights groups in Mogadishu have also condemned the executions as illegal and contrary to both Islamic Shariah law and international law. Source

A woman wants to be an extension of her husband. She is the spiritual ground in which he plants his seed. She is the recipient of to his spirit. By "accepting" him wholeheartedly, he "belongs" to her. This union results in psychological maturity for both. How gross is this? In all fairness, the article has some valid points(Just a few ladies... dont reach for ma jagular yet) . We do desire different things and have different expectations from each other. I can be "strong, bold and independent,", my man would just have to top me.

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^^ I'm sorry but I must have missed it. Thought you were an arab to begin with.

Duke. Keep it up. Maybe, just maybe, people will understand where you're coming from. I have no desire to start another battle with soomaali inyar oo dhiig ah laheyn. Just dont loose hope if no1 replies - they just cant refute ur argument. its another day...

MsWord. Save me the torture of having to repeat myself. Its like flogging a dead horse wallah. I am finished with this topic.

^^ Another thoughtless post. I wonder how many more unthinking disciples of everything Arab will come forth. Not once have I said the sharia was out-dated nor even attached the actions of the so called court to Islam. I have yet to see what they did being reasonably justified as "corruption on earth". Kindly get your heads out of your arses. I'm clearly loosing patience with this line of thinking.

Originally posted by OG_Girl: Safe exit huh? Funny!! Keep hatting dear but I explainded but you are blind to even understand what you reading!! And yes I know the answer but you don't deserve any answers! Keep protesting.. This is what I call whackjobs , you just fighting for things your really have no clue about it!!Anyways atleast you understood some thing after 7 pages!! after all you understand some thing No dear, I understand although its quite difficult through your incoherency and annoying grammar. Its not that you dont want to give me an answer, its because you dont know. Just like you dont know what exactly you're advocating for. Just like with all your posts, you put your feet in it before you head catches on. I dont even know why I'm bothering with your complete and utter show of idiocy. I too can insult but I reserve it for the big fish. You are so small, its an insult in itself to trade any with you. sir shuqlak xabiibti, you have no business talkin to me. Nice one Silence, but dont expect a civilised or rational refutation from the arab-wanna-be. They dont question. They are allergic to reasoning. Tell them jump, and they will say "how high". Typical Arab mentality. :rolleyes: In this case,they broke a law which is punishable, according to the laws of the said country, by death so pray tell why is there such an uproar? Maybe MsWord, you forgot to read the last 7 pages. I will give you the benetfit of doubt. Because they were Somalis. Because they were singled out. Because the law isnt fair and applies to some. Because the said crime and the punishment seem disproportionate.

Right OG. And your competence of Sharia just shines in this topic. :rolleyes: Please dont get me started. I was giving you the benefit of doubt and trying to make a safe exit. Its quite clear you cant even justify the law you're defending. After 6 pages you have come up with something I can make head or tail of as "corruption on earth". This still doesnt tell me how mugging counts as one. Do you know how many times these guys were ganging on the city and horified the peaceful citizens? How long the police been looking for them? How much demages they been caussed? Go on and answer your own Q's. And Do you think 6 americans would have been beheaded in KSA for the same crime? I cant keep repeating myself...so stop making me. :mad:

NGONGE dear, this a Somali website, where Somali issues, affecting Somalis are discussed by Somalis. Where else will it be discussed? Saudionline.com? or Ethiopiaonline? See how silly you came across when you ask why we are too concerned about a few beheaded Somalis? And pointing out the obvious – “the world isn’t fairâ€. So what is your solution? To shut up and watch? How enlightened of you NGONGE! You see, the people here have been insulting Arabs, they felt angry for their fellow Somalis and let rip with unreasonable insults on Saudis and Arabs What is insults compared to killing? If your fellow brethren being killed in broad daylight and without justice doesn’t make you the least bit concerned, I certainly will not try and invoke any such feelings in you. I have asked you defenders of the indefensible to bring forth proof that this is right under Islamic law, but have you? No. I’m not supporting those who bash arabs for the heck of it. I’m voicing my opinion on the law of KSA that is selective in nature, Do you think 6 americans would have been beheaded in KSA for the same crime?. OG girl is not responsible nor related to the entire Arab world. If she chooses to put herself in the line of fire for anything related to arabs, its her own fault. There is no excuse for lacking empathy towards the less fortunate. Even if her own relatives were involved, I expect her to be intelligent and have foresight and seek justice. For those who have asked the dim-witted Q of why we are not concerned about the rest of the atrocities taking place on home-ground, we are. It just isn’t the topic here. [EDIT] OG...finally you write something that makes an aunce of sense. p.s. I'm headin home. Till tomorrow.

Right. So now it translates to "corruption on earth" and not "crimes against humanity"? Well, does the Saudi govt try people for deforestation, using aerosols, and all that corrupts the earth? ... (JOKE). See, words make all the difference. Originally posted by Amethyst: Where in the Quran does it say armed robbery warrants capital punishment? Under what Sharia or international law does armed robbery (here with measly knives) does such a crime qualify as “crime against humanity� Does the weapon of choice matter? Knives cannot be equated to heavy artillery, causing damage and terrorizing a whole group of people Go on OG...answer me. Also, how is it you deduced the verdict to be a result of "corruption on earth". Since when do few people being mugged count as a grave crime against all? Stop defending the indefensible corrupt courts of KSA.

NGONGE, the only think you managed to achieve is lightly(when we all know ur a hefty man) dance around the subject and pretend to be a light fairy hovering over and guiding us. :rolleyes: OG sweety, come of it. You have changed ur tone more than once. Now its “corruption on earth†as said by the great NGONGE :rolleyes: . I will do whatever I can for those lacking justice and for those unspoken for. You on the other hand, stop being a complete ninny, going wherever the wind blows. This is a Somali site and insulting them is disrespectful, not to mention demeaning their life. p.s. If you guys fancy debating...go back to my 3rd last post n reply to my questions. Else, put a cork on nacnacda.

You bunch of arab loving knuckleheads are contradicting urselves left rite n centre! :rolleyes: I dont care for the death penalty or how brutal the laws of the KSA are. I am Somali (or SomaliLander depending...) and I am appalled at the mistreatment of poor Somalis in the KSA. I think the punishment was UNFAIR and I shall voice my opposition to it. What is your bloody point? You have conceded to Arabs being unfair, to their laws being corrupt and selective, to the entire world being witness to their double standards and a$$-licking antics... so what exactly are you arguing for? I am picking on OG for saying they deserved to die, for upholding a verdict that was clearly disproportionate to the said crime...for her insulting of Somalis in general and for changing her mind more times than i care to recall, for being confused and inarticulate about her stance. I'm just plain offended by her remarks... I'm yet to figure her point! If your point is respect the laws of the lands you reside - I agree. But I expect a fair trail for my wrong doings...capishe? is that hard?

OG Girl and Classique, you seem to run to the rescue of anything remotely arab related in this forum. I must admire you for your loyalty and gratuity towards your host countries. Unlike some of the two-faced chums on this side of the world, who collect welfare checks with one hand and turn around to say the most spiteful of things about their resident countries the next minute. That said, lets cut this smug attitude you two display. Explain yourselves. What is “FASAD FILL AL-ARATH†or crimes against humanity as you explained it? Do you even know what qualifies as “crime against humanityâ€? According to the International Criminal Court , “crime against humanity" means any of the following acts when committed as part of a widespread or systematic attack directed against any civilian population, with knowledge of the attack: (a) Murder; (b) Extermination; © Enslavement; (d) Deportation or forcible transfer of population; (e) Imprisonment or other severe deprivation of physical liberty in violation of fundamental rules of international law; (f) Torture; (g) Rape, sexual slavery, enforced prostitution, forced pregnancy, enforced sterilization, or any other form of sexual violence of comparable gravity; (h) Persecution against any identifiable group or collectivity on political, racial, national, ethnic, cultural, religious, gender as defined in paragraph 3, or other grounds that are universally recognized as impermissible under international law, in connection with any act referred to in this paragraph or any crime within the jurisdiction of the Court; (i) Enforced disappearance of persons; (j) The crime of apartheid; (k) Other inhumane acts of a similar character intentionally causing great suffering, or serious injury to body or to mental or physical health The above is what is defined as "crime against humanity". Threatening and robbing a few Arabs with knives is not. Where in the Quran does it say armed robbery warrants capital punishment? Under what Sharia or international law does armed robbery (here with measly knives) does such a crime qualify as “crime against humanityâ€? Does the weapon of choice matter? Knives cannot be equated to heavy artillery, causing damage and terrorizing a whole group of people. What completely blows me away about OG, is her blatant disregard for human life. She most certainly needs the sword brought closer so she realizes human life is sacred. She speaks of this particular case as if she dealt with it. There is no excuse for her words. Are you guys denying the hypocrisy and double standards of Arabs towards different countries? Should I dig up tons of examples where Americans and Europeans have committed unforgivable crimes against Muslims in various Arab countries and they walked off free?

Originally posted by General Duke: I will defend OG-Girl, just this once. The sister is born and bred in the Gulf , she only knows of a Somalia which is destroyed and of a people who are the laughing stock of the world. Many of her generation have no recollection of our past, and have no memory of the “good old days†when as a nation we had something resembling normality. They associate Somalia with anarchy, hopelessness and despair. A land of famine, full of refugee camps, children dependent on UN nation rations. Somali’s are pictured as maids, hoodlums, petty criminal and marauding thugs. Precious this one is Duke. You have defended the sister by pointing out her lack of understanding and sensitvity towards others suffering...specially ones hailing from her claimed-country of origin. Classy!

Talk about derailing from the topic! OG_Girl and like-minded chaps, I dont think any1 here is condoning their actions. We are discussing if the punishment was fair. People break laws all the time, regardless of where they maybe situated. There are thousands of arabs breaking the law in foreign countries and no1 beheads them. Before you can hand capital punishment to foreigners in your lands, you need to make arrangements with their home country and agree the punishment is fair. Meel cidla ah ayaa masaakiintan laga helay. Their misfortune is not that they they were caught, but they were poor Somalis. Please understand what I am talking about!There is Law whatever you think is fair or not! should be respected.The topic is not whatever is fair to you or not. There was a court and a judge decided to be beheaded accourding facts he got front of him This is the topic dear girl. You seem to have your head in the clouds and bent on demeaning Soomaalida. Funny how when it suits you, you become on of us. Don't expect people conmdom cause they are Somalis when I know Somalis break all laws on the Heaven and Earth!! Why are you singling out Somalis? I doubt the most heinous crimes were committed by Somalis in KSA. Arabs never been a good example of Islam and wont be in near future. Isnt this contradictory to your whole argument? ^^True, They break country's Law and expect people will host them!! Again I find your harshness towards somalis unjustifiable. I take it you maybe doing it for debates sake and playing the devils advocate, but I hope you realize we are talking about people's lives here. Its grossly unforgivable for you to say they deserved it OG. It was unfair and totally unjustifiable. You very well know that this would not happen to a group of American or like men. Hypocrisy and double standards is the order of the day in KSA....and they have shown it on more occasions than one. Lastly, "The death penalty is meted out for murder, rape, apostasy, armed robbery and drug trafficking." You may want to substantiate this with proof. Its nothing like I have heard. While ur at it, give us "ur definition" of armed robbery cuz I know we aint thinking the same thing.

OH MY GOD OG... nothing justifies the taking of life walaalo. If you want to take that higher moral stand, advocate for laws that protect all and sundry and are fair. This clearly isnt fair and therefore isnt a topic about the necessity of law and order. People make mistakes all the time. When punishment is dished out, it should be proportionate to the crime. Car theft and threatening dont count as grave crimes against humanity. If these guys wanted to commit murder, they could have just as easily. I'm in no way justifying their actions, but as Somalis who are perpetually troubled, I dont expect others to take advantage of it. These guys were clearly singled out and made an example of. What a bleeding shame that some of us dont even recognize it.

My position on divorce has changed over the years. I personally had a desire to go through a few husbands in my lifetime.. thought one person was too suffocating and I would inevitably get bored (I still think it would eventually be dreadfully boring but I have learned to re-prioritise life's little goals and make everything not about me). But having done a self comparison of kids from single parent homes as opposed to those that grow up with both their parents, I can safely say the difference is monumental and the worst thing you can do to any child is deprive them of the company of both their parents - in the same house. I don’t wish this on any child, really. And any parent who undermines the role of the other or puts their own self-interest before their children is irresponsible. At the end of the day, I think the most important thing after your diin is your family.

Originally posted by Tuujiye : Waxa ugu daran waxaa waaye wili meesha dadka looga dhigay waardiyaal..markaan soo xasuusto qofka mid ah waxaa i qabta computerkeega dhanba dimi!!!labolabo iyo reer baadinimo ayaa intee miig u xireen bee laaaaaaaaaaaaaad kala daaleen. I guess I wrote too much somali now and someone I know will edit this and take me back to the somali section...looooooool.. I know this was directed at me. Great. I have noticed you. Although you have made ur "hate" for me quite clear via PM, I dont see why you felt the need to repeat urself. I could reply in kind but I wont... I have learned of the demise of some1 close to me this morning. Life is too short to spend being contemptible about waxyaalo bilaa'macni ah.

^Quit SOL? :eek: ... but ... dont you love us? Personally, I just feel quite comfortable here. If I have to write...its gotta be on SOL. Welcome.

I feel guilty. I haven't been home literally 20mins and I have managed to anger all 4 people in the house.

Xiinfaniin, here is an answer from a credible islamic website. Hope this clears things for us. Question#: 3627 Question Date: 7/6/1998 Topic : Birthdays Question: It is a western to celebrate birthdays, is this against the Sunna or Qur'an for Muslims to celebrate other Muslim's birthdays? Answer: Dear Sr. N. As-salaamu alaykum. In Islamic Law, birthdays are not considered a Eid (or an Islamic official holiday) like the Eidul Fitr or Eidul Adha, because the formal holidays have conditions and guidelines such as not being allowed to fast during the Eid days. Therefore, birthdays are simply occasions of a person's birth date and are a matter of culture. If a person wants to commemorate his/her birth date, then he/she may do so, especially if he/she takes the opportunity to reflect on the past and pledge to be better during the next year. However, to make the birthday an important occasion is not very much recommended or encouraged. Thank you for asking and God knows best. Source: IslamiCity Also, the gregorian calender is neither an administrative nor a technical innovation but a religious one. Click here to find out the proof as I dont have the patience to argue over nothing with you Lastly, And don’t forget, dear Falxado, when you precede to putout those candles and sing that unholy song, that you’re indeed partaking in an ancient Germanic custom that’s quite foreign to yours. Maybe you should re-read my initial reply as I pointed it clearly, we are not here to dicuss how a B'day should be celebrated. Stop goin by assumptions and bring on something substantial. Else, kindly get off my back. :rolleyes: P.s, Falxado is such an ugly name!

Thanks Tolstoy. That was long with alot more depth and informative. I shall try to tune in to BBC Radio 4 the next time I'm on the bus instead of listening to Capital FM or Virgin Radio on my phone. "What experience and history teach is this-that people and governments never have learned anything from history, or acted on principles deduced from it." G. W. F. Hegel

Wadaad kulahaa. As if! More like a freak if you ask me. Before some1 can be bestowed with a revered title like "wadaad", his actions and character must be examplary of the attributes of such a person. Your friend, or arguably the good samaritan who wants to save us from eternal damnation, needs to reflect on his own actions. And Farah, being an eminent member of SOL, I would expect you to defend us good nomads of SOL from such rash generalisation and degrading.

Sheherazade, I find it hard to gather the will to reply to you (I’ve a splitting headache too). Your whole argument revolves around assuming the guy needs help and is vulnerable. 2ndly talking about him as if he were the same person you dealt with. 3rdly not talking about the matter(stalking) objectively, not necessarily in ay kutubeey's case which I understand can be easily construed as small. 4thly, using the Quran and Hadeeth to support an argument whose context couldn’t have been further from the intention of the quote.