As much I hate to hold this view, at times yes. Seldom do I come across people who portray a different view, one that actually makes me look forward to marriage. When such a miracle occurs and I begin to think that the grass on the other aside just might be greener, I encounter another sad case which tells me that I’m already grazing on the best grass possible. Funnily enough though, I don’t view children in the same way. I look so foreword to having children, but marriage is at the moment somewhat iffy (my view of it), but as they say you can’t put the cart before the horse (or something like that). So yes, right now I do hold the opinion that marriage is another milestone I must go through for the sake of life- but don’t hold me to that as I might change my mind in a few days when an uplifting married person comes my way .

Sahal, Brother, with all due respect this “salafi hunting†expedition that you have taken to, has to be honest become an obsession and in the process lost any credibility and point it may of have had. You have started to make it a personal issue, hence the insults that you throw at the brother. Reading brother Salafi onlines posts, I can only guess and gather that he is a young brother who has recently gotten back into the diin and in this process is trying as best as he sees fit- this is a common characteristic of such youth. I don’t know about you, but I’ve seen many folks like him, who within time begin to put things into perspective without loosing their manhaj. You may disagree with him, but there is no need to insult him with words such as “sickâ€. Fear Allah brother and give the brother a break, discuss the points in a respectful manner but do not attack him personally. w/salaam

Quiet laughable indeed. This coming from a person who actually believes that Somalia’s leadership saviour is none other than the A-grade warlord himself CY. Even if we were to delve into any possible mistakes made by Mr. Galeyr, he would still be angelic in every sense of the word as when compared to CY. So please brother, at least in future try to be somewhat diplomatic when heralding such views.

Hmm interesting! JZK folks!

DA, As far as me finding you ayaats about praying, that again is not the discussion at hand. A nomad was telling me that women get less ajar in the mosque, and I asked him to prove it using a surat. I understood your point, but in bringing up the prayer point I was trying to make a point as well as to answer your question. You can’t accept hadith when you like it and reject it when you like, it just doesn’t work like that. Sure enough, the point that sisters receive more ajar when they pray at home is not found in the Quran, however it is found in the Sunnah of Rasuallah, the hadiths. Therefore, the question should of have been where in the Quran and authentic Sunnah does it state that sisters…? Bukhari discarded many Hadiths due to fabrications. That's a fact. I would really love to know the "Extraneous" methods in which the Hadith became as infallible as the Koran, but that's a discussion for another time. The following briefly explains this; however as with anything if you truly wish to know then research it considering it is a topic that the scholars have explained in-depth and not to mention, it is for the benefit of your diin that you understand, comprehend and accept that there are hadiths with us today that have been preserved by the will of Allah. Methods for Transmitting the Sunnah: Now that we have some historical background about the Sunnah, we should devote some time to talk about how the Sunnah was transmitted to us today. In fact, the method of transmitting the Sunnah is a truly ingenious and unique method invented and used only by the Islamic Ummah. No other civilization was able to come up with similar methods to accurately transmit their claimed holy texts. Muslims put a huge amount of effort in order to protect and preserve the Sunnah, and to keep it clean from any inaccuracies or fabrications. This effort was made by thousands of Hadith scholars, who spent their lives in the service of the Sunnah. Their efforts in combating fabrications and preserving the Sunnah are discussed later on. In order to ensure the accuracy of every sentence in the Sunnah, the Hadith scholars devised a system where every hadith contains two parts. A sanad (chain or narrators) and a matn (the actual words said by the Prophet). The sanad is the chain of narrators of the hadith. When the hadith scholars came across a hadith, they required the person saying the hadith to say who he learned this hadith from, and who that person learned it from, and so on, up to the companion who heard it directly from the Prophet. By requiring this sanad with every single hadith, the scholars were able to check this chain of narrators and decide on whether this hadith is authentic or not. They developed books, still available today, that describe all these narrators, their dates of birth, where they lived, their level of memorization, their character and so on. The hadith scholars, before declaring a hadith to be sahih or accurate, intensively check the sanad of the hadith. This includes historical checks to ensure that each 2 narrators lived at the same time and in the same place. It also includes checking for the character and level of memorization of that person. This science was called ilm al-rijal or aljarh wal ta'deel, which means science of men. The scholars collected information about each narrator from people who know him or people who did some business with him etc. They collected this information in order to allow them to judge the reliability of each narrator. For example, if a narrator is known to have lied once in his life, during a business transaction, marriage, to his friends etc. he is rejected and the hadith narrated by him is considered weak or fabricated. If a narrator is known to occasionally make mistakes, this is taken into account. If he missed some prayers, or was known to have deviant beliefs etc. all this was taken into account. All these books are still available today. We also still have the books where the scholars ranked each narrator depending on their reliability. All this information was then used to rank the hadith as being: sahih, hasan, da'eef or mawdoo'. In order for a hadith to be deemed sahih, the chain of narrators must be continuous with no gaps, every narrator must have excellent character and excellent memorization, and the matn is checked to make sure it doesn't contradict the Qur'an or other known hadith and so on. The sciences of hadith are some of the most complicated in Islam, and it honestly cannot be fully explained here. However, we hope that we were able to give an overview of how the hadith was transmitted in order to give readers strong confidence about the scholars who performed this task. If someone is interested to learn more, there are hundereds of books about aljarh wal ta'deel and mostalah al hadeeth and so on. For others, you should have some confidence and trust in the work done by the scholars and trust their word when they say a hadith is sahih or daee'f etc. Classification of Hadith: It may be useful here to mention briefly some of the classes of hadith. The hadith can be classified in two ways: 1) Classification based on number of narrators in each generation: •Motawatir. These are hadith where a large number of people narrated the same hadith in each generation of the chain of narrators. •Ahaad. These are hadith that are narrated by only a few people in each generation. We know that the motawatir hadith are indeed the sayings of Prophet Mohammad (pbuh). This is because of the large number of people who heard the prophet say the hadith, and then it was transmitted through many different chains of narrators and it ended up to be still exactly the same hadith. The Ahaad hadith must be studied in detail, as mentioned above, in order to prove them and they are classified as follows: 2) Classification based on studying the narrators: •Sahih and hasan. These are hadith which were judged to be truly the words of Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) by the scholars who specialize in Hadith. Sahih are a higher class than hasan. •Da'eef. These are weak hadith, which are not proven to be from the Prophet. •Mawdoo'. These are hadith known to be fabricated. Scholars of hadith, such as Bukhari and Muslim, collected sahih hadith only and put them in their books of: Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim. However, they did not attempt nor claim to have collected all sahih hadith. There are many other books of hadith such as Musnad Ahmad, Mowatta' Malik and so on which contain many sahih hadith as well.

Brothers we all agree that the majority of the leaders of the Muslim lands are corrupt for as Malcolm X said (after Martin Luther King Jr. received the Nobel peace prize): “If I’m following a general, and he’s leading me into a battle, and the enemy tends to give him rewards, or awards, I get suspicious of him. Especially if he gets a peace award before the war is over†However, over throwing these leaders is not the solution right now. Success comes with Islam; just take a look at the Muslims. Let’s be honest, how many of us actually adhere to Islam as we should? Not many I guarantee you. Therefore, until we return to Islam and adhere to it like we should, we shall not smell the sweet success of a caliphate. It is that simple for leaders are only a reflection of the people they lead! If the leaders are corrupt, then be sure that the people are also corrupt, and Allah is never with the corrupt.

Sahiih Bukhari and Muslim do not contain any daciif hadith, all are authentic hence the title sahiih. With the other hadith collections such as tirmidhi, abu da'uud etc there are sahiih as well as daciif hadiths, but no such thing with Bukhari and Muslim. Folks, for a hadith to be classified as sahiih we must remember that there were extremely sringent methods utilised and it was not as simple as some make it seem. Anyone who believes otherwise is not with the mainstream views of ahlus-sunnah wal jamaaca, and as they say each to their own. Sis do you realy go to shari'a islamic school? And if you are sis what do they teach you? Feebaro, Og-Girl as she has replied in another thread ascribes to the shia sect which would explain her rejection of the authenticity of Bukhari and Muslim. Shias have their own hadith books different to ours. All I have asked you was that you give me an ayaat that says that women get less ajar when praying in the mosque, and you still haven't done that. DA could you please quote for me an ayah in the quran which explains the way in which we as Muslims pray. As in an ayah which tells us that fajar is two rakac, dhuhr four and so forth. Also, if you can, quote for us all an ayah which states that we must perform the movements of rukuuc and sujuud whilst in prayer.

Sister, count your blessings. Try finding clothes that fit you right :confused: . At least if it is too long you can hem it or something. I don't know if it is the same where you live, but here all the clothes are bloody too short :mad: , and I’m not even extremely tall (5'8). And then when you find the right length, it is too big waist/thigh wise. Catch 22 situation, so i get some of my clothes tailor made which can be expensive. Modesty, I don't know about other male nomads but TALL WOMEN are a turn off for most men. If a women is shorter then a man, the man is more than likely to approach her. I think that its the feminine thing for a women to be shorter than a man. The 'HIGH HEEL' age wasn't until recent times. So short women, wereeeeeeeeee alwayyyyys IN! So how tall are you khayr ? That would explain it . But yes i agree, although it is sort of superficial i too think that it is nicer that the man is taller than the woman.

I don't think there is such a thing as friendship between people of the opposite sex. There must be an interest from one party in order to maintain the relationship as friends. The interest is usually maintained by the help of the third party...sheitan. Spot on!

For me inshallah either Xamar (#1) or Kismaayo (#2). I can't wait to return home. Inshallah i shall be returning this summer (our summer) for a holiday and to get a fair idea of the country.

Alxamdullilah, I have met two Chinese Muslims at Uni. I can’t begin to explain the feeling that this gave me- somehow this cemented the ideal of Islamic brotherhood/sisterhood for me.

And who judges those who are on the straight path, a mere human or Allah SWT..? As that judged in the Qur’an, Sunnah and the understanding of the first three generations. This is how we derive understanding of the caqiida of this diin. The kalima is clear sister , we just need to sift out some of the garbage tossed onto it. Sister Og_girl, Sorry to see that you do not regard Bukhari and Muslim as been authentic, however even putting hadith aside, i do believe that what i have stated is common sense and common etiquette . It is just human decency that you be respectful when debating issues and not resort to verbal abuse. It is also common sense that you show respect to others when they show you respect, this is the lowest level of human decency, the greatest of which is to show respect when others do not show you the same courtesy. We should all aspire to this, but at least come with the lowest level.

ASC Viking, Akhi there is a marked difference between grave worshipping and shafaaca. Yes, we believe in shafaaca for it is something established in the Qur’an and Sunnah but we reject the asking of the dead for assistance. What I was referring to, grave worshipping, is something which was ruled out by Rasuallah himself: "Those before you took the graves of their Prophets as places of worship. Do not take graves as places of worship for verily I forbid you to do so." [Muslim] So Akhi don’t you think that if anyone is worth calling upon it would be the best of mankind, the most beloved to Allah, Muhammad s.c.w? If we are not even allowed to ask for his help then what do you think about the righteous people who could never reach his level? The other point is, you would think that the best of generations would of have practiced this, but nowhere will you find that they participated in it. Allah also says in the Qur’an Allah states concerning the calling upon the dead: "If you call upon them, they hear not your call, and if (in case) they were to hear, they could not grant it (your request) to you. And on the Day of Resurrection, they will disown your worshipping them" [35: 14] Brother this practice of saying that they (the dead) are a sort of intermediaries between us and Allah is no different than what the Quraish claimed concerning their idols: "We only worship them so that they may bring us closer to Allah." [39: 3] and we all know that this was rebuked by the prophet of Allah. Furthermore, it is no different than what the Christians do concerning the idols of Mary. I am not calling them names or anything, but please don't tell me that they are beyond critisism becasue it doesn't take a nano-tech scientist to see what is going on. There is nothing wrong with criticizing other human beings, including the scholars for it is not like that they are infallible, however all I was saying was, there is a certain etiquette with which this must be done. Irrespective of whether a scholar is right or wrong, inshallah they will receive their reward from the Most High, therefore let us always keep this in mind. I am 110% sure that when the likes of Shaykh ibn Baz and Cutahymin etc (rahimuallah) made any rulings that they thought it was in the best interest of the Muslims. Look I too disagree with that particular ruling, but this does not reduce the respect I hold for them. Anyway all in all, we just need to keep things in perspective and not continue to argue over points which even the scholars were extremely divided on.

I am glad my Shia brothers let you bark alone here and there! I have to agree wholeheartedly with brother SHOOBARO. Sister you are speaking words that are uncalled for and unnecessary. You are here fighting for unity and that is a blessed thing, but at the same time we must understand that unity is only with those who ascribe to the kalima properly (regardless of what they call themselves). Rasuallah already told us that the Muslims would be divided; therefore we can’t all have a group hug and chant slogans of brotherhood when some are stepping on the tenets of Islam. Let’s face it, there are many people who follow and practice things outside of Islam (including many who claim to be sunnis) and hence we MUST clarify this for them and keep away from this ourselves. All brother Nur is doing is giving us proofs, he is not articulating his own opinions, but rather stating points based on daleel. To be honest, you on many occasions seem to be articulating your own opinions and making unfounded accusations against various people. If you have a point to make, do so in the respectful manner that brother Nur is doing. If you have noticed, even those who are heralding shiasim such as Viking and Mutakalim hold Nur in high regard- this I’m sure says a great deal about the character of a person. I do believe that this is the difference between one who respects others whilst making a stern point and one who retaliates with abuse such as yourself sorry to say. On many occasions sister to be honest I have bit my lip (or rather held my fingers) from responding to your tactics concerning Islamic discussions (especially your "I study islamic shariica and hence know it all" point- which you have pointed out in a few discussions), but personally I feel you have gone too far where brother Nur is concerned, not only here but also in other threads. The brother may Allah bless and reward him has served Islam greatly (on the forums), not only that but I’m sure many would agree that he is a respected nomad who we all love for the sake of Allah. It is therefore I ask you to show a little more respect to your fellow nomads, especially as far as respectful people such as Nur are concerned. Sister please contemplate the following two hadiths, as I will also, for as a Muslim we need to continuously remind ourselves. The Messenger of Allah (sallallahu alaihi wa-sallam) said: "Let he who truly believes in Allah and the Last Day speak good or be silent." [saheeh al-Bukharee] Abdullah Ibn Amr Ibn Amr al-Aas (radhi allahu anhu) narrated that the Prophet (sallallahu alaihi wa-sallam) said: "Whoever has the following four characteristics will be a pure hypocrite; and whoever has one of these four characteristics will have one characteristic of hypocrisy unless and until he gives it up; whenever he is entrusted he betrays, whenever he speaks he tells a lie, whenever he makes a covenant he proves treacherous, and whenever he quarrels he behaves in a very imprudent, evil and insulting manner." [saheeh al-Bukharee] If I have offended you in anyway then i hope you will accept my apologies, it was not my intention- I just feel that someone needed to say this.

it's true... they are not 'woman friendly' (at least the ones i've been to) but that's totally understandable. Women really have no business in a mosque. men have to pray there (we have no choice, God’s law says so). Such comments are only the offspring of ignorance. Please get educated, allow me to help you with the following hadiths: Narrated Salim from his father, ‘Abd Allah bin ‘Umar, that the Messenger of Allah (SAW) said: "When women ask permission for going to the mosque, do not prevent them." (Saheeh Muslim) 'Abd Allah bin ‘Umar reported: I heard the Messenger of Allah (SAW) say: "Do not prevent your women from going to the mosque when they seek your permission." Bilaal bin ‘Abd Allah said: By Allah! We shall certainly prevent them. On this, ‘Abd Allah bin ‘Umar turned towards him and reprimanded him so harshly as I had never heard him do before. He (‘Abd Allah bin ‘Umar) said: I am narrating to you that which comes from the Messenger of Allah (SAW) and you (dare) say: By Allah! We shall certainly prevent them. (Saheeh Muslim) Ibn ‘Umar reported: The Messenger of Allah (SAW) said: "Do not prevent women from going to the Mosque at night." A boy said to ‘Abd Allah bin ‘Umar: We would never let them go out, that they may not be caught in evil. He (the narrator) said: Ibn ‘Umar reprimanded him and said: I am saying that the Messenger of Allah (SAW) said this, but you say: We would not allow! (Saheeh Muslim) As for the issue at hand, of course some masjids are not sister friendly. However, allow me to remind you sisters, it is only Allah that provides complete justice, so do not expect a human being to be completely just (especially considering that the iman of mankind in general is so low). Therefore, take a pro-active stance and make a difference in your community. Alxamdullilah in my area, such problems do not exist.

This is what ignorance of our diin begets, complete disregard for the rights of Allah. May Allah save us from this unfortunate display of unrepentant sin. because in lobanan, most of the muslims are shi'a sect Actually majority are sunnis (not that that means much these days). Viking, i don't know about you brother but for me when someone (irrespective of the tenets they claim to prescribe to) commits shirk knowingly and not to mention disrespects caisha our mother, abu bakr, cuthmaan and cumar, then they have already divided the wedge you speak of. My loyalty is to those who are on the caqiida ordained by Allah Himself and not that by some sickening shaykh (old man) for some unknown reason. Although unity is a goal and a blessed thing, we do not unite just for the sake of unity. Small fiqh issues are one thing, but tawheed is a totally different matter- and it is on this matter that we have a disagreement with the shiica.

So I'm not nessecarily saying that Cabdullaahi Yuusuf Yeey should be president but there isn't much option. Of course you would say that brother. Personally I feel we don’t have much to choose from also, but one thing I’m sure of is CY is probably one of the worst, so please cut this propaganda nonsense . If we were to pick the best of the worst, I guarantee you it would not be CY. I’ve said this so many times, of all of the blood-sucking thieves that have raped our homeland, CY and Caydiid Jr. are the two that I detest the most for they lead the pack in that they also have become so profoundly comfortable in sleeping with the enemy. Folks, honestly, I look at these photos and have decided that we are probably doomed for many more years to come. Do we choose a murderer, a murderer, a murderer or someone who has once failed? Not much to choose from eh? But then again, leaders are a reflection of the people that they lead. We have this sore lot to choose from for we are generally a sad people who are destined for more disaster it seems. May Allah make this nightmare fade away.

Intuition, she is my best bud in the real world anyway

I have never heard of any Muslims who worship graves instead of Allah SWT. If you know of any such group, please feel free to share that information. Viking, akhi, just two small points. First and foremost, which world have you been living on brother? You can't be serious when you say that you have not seen such Muslims. What do you call it when someone goes to the graves (considering that there seems to be so many) of say Shaykh Cabdulqadir Jaylaani and asks for health or wealth? Is this not a form of worship? There is a reason why in every rakah of salat we pronounce "iyaaka nacbudu wa iyaaka nastaciin" (You alone do we worship and You alone do we seek assistance from). This is an action of shirk and Kufr. However, we cannot call this person a kaafir for we do not know the reason that they are doing this action of kufr, it could be out of ignorance and hence will be excused for it inshallah. This, brother, is the caqiida taught to us by Rasuallah s.c.w taught to him by our lord Allah s.w.t. Secondly akhi, i don't believe anyone here was speaking about the Saudi culimaa' and some of their fatwas on world affairs. As much as many Muslims (including many other Saudi scholars) disagree with these fatwas, remember that the scholars of Islam receives two rewards when they are correct on the ruling of a particular issue and one reward even if they are wrong. This is the difference between the defenders of Islam (i.e. the scholars) and lay men/women like ourselves. It is for this reason that these noble human beings who are the inheritors of the prophets should be safe from our tongues even more so than the average Muslim. IT IS for this reason that we MUST revere them even if we disagree with some of their rulings. You can disagree with someone and still hold them in the highest regard- this should be our position as Muslims . Brother Bilaal, I could be wrong about the shaykhs repentance of the book; I believe I am confusing it with Imam Ghazzalis Ihya Uloom ad Din. Walaahu aclum. As long as the slave of Allah is sincere about his actions, then Allah is Al-Ghafoor. But is it not the responsibility of the slave of Allah to seek accurate and authentic knowledge to ascertain whether or not his beliefs and actions are those prescribed by Allah? Let’s just say that in two weeks time you had an examination on Organic chemistry- would you get from your library the most authentic books concerning this topic or books which you knew had some proven points on this topic, some still at the stage of theory and some found since its publication in 1979 as been completely false? I’m sure that you would undoubtedly opt for the first option for you know that by reading the first type of books your chances of not only passing but getting good grades will be increased. Therefore, is not your search for Islamic knowledge worthy of such stringent methods of sorting? More authentic and accurate Islamic books covering the topics covered in Fadaa-ilul-acmaal are so many, go and search for them and inshallah the risks of taking on board unislamic information will be minimised.

It is true that we as Muslims should not read this books for it contains many daciif points, some even crossing the border of shirk. And anyway, it’s not like there is a shortage of correct Islamic books. If memory serves me right, the shaykh who wrote this book actually sought repentance for this particular work of his- hence indicating its status.

DA, Hijab can be of any type but it must fulfil the following seven conditions: 1. Clothing must cover the entire body, only the hands and face may remain visible. 2. The material must not be so thin that one can see through it. 3. The clothing must hang loose so that the shape / form of the body is not apparent. 4. The female clothing must not resemble the man's clothing. 5. The design of the clothing must not resemble the clothing of the non believing women. 6. The design must not consist of bold designs which attract attention. 7. Clothing should not be worn for the sole purpose of gaining reputation or increasing one's status in society. Therefore any hijab fulfilling these conditions is acceptable in Islam irrespective of which people wear it. Ameenah, I think it is about time a thread was begun to dissect the Islamic dress code for men.

Like I said, this is really a political issue turned into one of manhaj. We all know that ones views on these two shuyuukh is dependent on which side of the political divide one stands on (pro Saudi regime vs. anti-Saudi regime). Can you imagine what Shaykh ibn Taymiyaa would of have done if he was alive during the gulf war debacle? The point in essence is, is it Islamically correct and acceptable to oppose the likes of the Saudi regime? It maybe that both Shaykh Safar and Shaykh Salmaan did not employ the best of methods (as is the reason for Al-Banis criticism of them- not that he disagrees with their point of contention) but it does not necessarily mean that they were wrong in their stance. When this fitna occurred, the scholars of Islam took differing views, some were extremely against both the shuyuukh (like Shaykh Fawzaan), some were against but more mild in their reserve (such as Al-bani and ibn Cuthaymin- for different reasons), some in silent favour such as Bakr Abu Zaid and others in public favour such as ibn jibreen. Why do people such as yourself often fail to mention the mashaayakh who were in support of Sh Safar and Sh. Salman? Akhi, it is best that we be fair and acknowledge that the mashaayakh were divided on that political issue, but they all unanimously agreed that both Shaykh Safar and Shaykh Salman were still salafis and still on the salafi manhaj. Hence it is well advised that you stop slandering the scholars of Islam and fear Allah. You are serving no purpose by any of these baseless claims. There is an etiquette to disagreements, one been to avoid insults and name-calling. But please do private msg me with your proof of their so-called deviation. I would like proof, which is more than that perpetuated by ignorant Muslims who have mastered the decieving arts of misquoting and taking out of context. As for the issue of ibn Baz visiting Safar in prison, he visited him to ask him if he needed anything and as you might know when Sh. safars mother scolded Sh. ibn baz, he actually cried as a result of it. Furthermore, after their imprisonment, ibn Baz still insisted that the two shuyuukh were still of the Ahlu-Sunnah. I'm sure that these two points speak for themselves!

Right on Ameenah, well said sister.

Salman A-awda, Safar Al-xawali,Saruuri's, Are not Salafies....Salma A-awda and safar al-xawali vilify The Kibar Ulaama of our time and past. Simply because they may not agree with particular culimaa' on certain issues, does not mean that these two noble shuyuukh have left the fold of the salafi manhaj. Do you not know that Shaykh ibn Baz used to see these two shuyuukh whilst they were in jail? Does that not say anything about what he thought of them? Brother with all due respect, i believe it would be best that you learnt a tad more than what they teach you at your local masjid. Often some Muslims get into the habit of blind following with the detrimental affects of making wrong accusations. Both Shaykh Safar al-xawli and Shaykh Salman al-awda were only in line with the teaching of Rasuallah when they objected to the kufaar coming on to the Arabian Peninsula. Was this not what Rasuallah s.c.w himself said? Not to mention, in Islam, so long as one has daleel we can disagree with the rulings of any calim for only the blessed prophet is to be followed blindly, hence it does not necessarily mean that they have left the fold of the manhaj. In essence the disagreement between the culimaa was a political issue and not necessarily one of manhaj, for that reason you cannot claim they are not salafis. It is not wise that we get into this issue for it is of no real benefit, however at best we must clarify this important point. Bottom line is fear Allah for Rasuallah said that Allah has said (Xadiith Qudsi-roughly translated), he who is an enemy of my awliya will be in war with ME. Like I've said previously, it is best that all you brothers refrain from these pointless arguments for clearly none of us (probably excluding Br Nur) have enough knowledge to discuss them. All are basically just reiterating what they hear from their group of brothers at the masjid. Furthermore, in these forums, this is POINTLESS. It would be best that the two of you discuss far more important issues like caqiida, salat and sawm for i'm sure we all need to know more about them. Such discussions would be far more beneficial than that which even the scholars are debating about. And salafi-online, as much as it could be said that i am in line with the salafi manhaj, i believe you concentrate on it a bit too much, talk about that which more people can identify with- a very good dacwa tool which we should all employ. If the issue comes up, then fine, give it some attention, but why is it always the bluk of your message?

Mabruuk brother and may he benefit you in this world and the akhira.