somalis still think uncircumcised women need to use matrasses against the monthly fluids. Who the bloody hell believes that :confused: ? That is revolting and backward to say the least. As for the winner, kudos to her, I can only imagine what she had to fight. She must be one heck of a woman .

Socod, Some of your comment was laced with truth, but most was a Dubya speech - need I say more? I didn’t mean any offence by that, so apologies for that, but we’ve heard all the terrorists (AKA Muslims) hate all that which America stands for, freedom of speech, religion blah blah :rolleyes: . Also, don’t wait for a response, I posted the article for the reason that more or less I concur with the author.

The author of this article deliberately twists and overlooks some of the truth. It follows a sad trend among some muslim intellectuals of lately. He calls these terrorists 'muslim resistance'. These are ppl who advocate and practice the cold blooded killing of civilians. There is some truth in what the US says about these terrorist groups, like Al-Qaida. They do hate everything the US stands for and practices. They said it themselves. They are not for freedom of speech, religion. Why does he overlook these facts? This doesnt mean the US is innocent but they are not the cause of all the problems in muslim world. I have always wondered why a syrian, whos government isnt supported by the US, would march to condemn the US. It seems some muslims take the role of playing the victim. Almost all the problems of the muslim world are the fault of muslims not the US. Conditions of receiving your green card ? Really, it’s quiet sad to see a free human being sell themselves for a piece of paper. Jamaal, Thanks. OG_Girl, You’re welcome.

The Clash Thesis: A Failing Ideology? M Shahid Alam Article ID: 1216 | 156 Reads "They hate us because we don't know why they hate us." - Bill Maher Instantly, instinctively, and unrelentingly, the American establishment has framed the attacks of September 11, 2001, in the language of a clash of civilizations. The Islamic terrorists attacked America because they hate our highest values, our freedoms, our way of life, our civilization. President Bush wasted no time in defining the language of this dis-course in his first speech on September 11, 2001. "Today," he opened his speech, "our fellow citizens, our way of life, our very freedom came under attack in a series of deliberate and deadly terrorist acts." This thesis was hammered home again. "America was targeted for attack because we're the brightest beacon for freedom and opportunity in the world." On September 20, 2001, the President returned to this question in his speech to a joint session of the Congress. Indeed, it was the centerpiece of his speech. "Americans are asking," he told us, "who attacked our country?" His answer: the attackers are "a collection of loosely affiliated terrorist organizations known as al-Qaeda." Their goal is "is remaking the world ­ and imposing its radical beliefs on people everywhere." Americans are also asking, the President informs us, "why do they hate us?" His answer is clearly stated. "They hate what we see right here in this chamber ­ a democratically elected government. Their leaders are self-appointed. They hate our freedoms ­ our freedom of religion, our freedom of speech, our freedom to vote and assemble and disagree with each other." It is not clear anymore if 'they' points to al-Qaida, the Arabs or all Muslims. A month after the September 11 attacks, President Bush made the connection more explicit. "How do I respond," he asks, "when I see that in some Islamic countries there is vitriolic hatred for America?" Of cuorse, the President is "amazed that there's such misunderstanding of what our country is about that people would hate us. I am ­ like most Americans, I just can't believe it because I know how good we are." This then is the ideology of America's establishment as it wages its "war against terror." The Muslims attacked America because they hate who we are. They want to destroy us because they hate our freedom, our opportunities, our democratic institutions, our way of life, our Judeo-Christian heritage. It is a hatred that is civilizational. It is rooted in the illiberal, intolerant, misogynist, anti-modernist, and anti-scientific culture of Muslims and their religion. This thesis is now spun a thousand times every day by America's politicians, press and pundits. This ideology of the clash of civilizations is multi-layered. First, it seeks to explain to Americans and the rest of the world why the United States and the rest of the world must wage this war against terror. Secondly, the clash thesis ­ long championed by Zionist ideologues inside and outside Israel ­ is a device for Americanizing the war Israel has waged against the Palestinians and Arabs. Thirdly, the war against terror is itself a cover which the United States is using to establish a more muscular control over the world. This ideology is problematic. First, there is its flimsiness. It uses an inane concoction to deflect the blame for the September 11 attacks from US policies in the Middle East: our craven pandering to Israeli aggression, our vital support for corrupt and dictatorial regimes in the Middle East, and the war and deadly sanctions against Iraq since 1990. It is flimsy because it contradicts our understanding of human nature. As Charles Reese put it, "It is absurd to suppose that a human being sitting around suddenly stands up and says: "You know, I hate freedom. I think I'll go blow myself up." [1] Despite the incessant brainwashing, most Americans can see that. The ideology fails for at least four additional reasons. If it is their hatred of freedoms that motivated Muslims to attack America, why did they wait for some 200 years to begin their attacks against America ­ if we start the clock with the bombing of American marines in Beirut? The clash thesis raises another question: why America only? Surely, freedoms are not unique to America. The Arabs could have found several easier targets, and nearer their home bases too, in Europe. Third, if the Islamic world so hated freedoms, why did young men from all corners of the Islamic world descend upon Afghanistan to fight the totalitarian Soviets? Fourth, if the attackers are such freedom-haters why can't they get along with their own anti-democratic regimes, in Saudi Arabia, Syria, Egypt, Algeria and Jordan? The clash thesis resoundingly fails another crucial test. Will the Islamists who attacked the United States, and prepare for additional attacks, scrap their terrorist campaign if the United States turns into a fascist state or ­ try to imagine this ­ if America's elites convert to Islam but continue their present policies towards the Islamic world? One might pose a similar question for the Zionists who accuse the Palestinians of anti-Semitism. Would the course of Palestinian resistance be any different if we could replace the colonial-settler Jews with colonial-settler Germans, colonial-settler Chinese or even colonial-settler Pakistanis? The Islamist resistance does not stem from differences of race or religion that divide Muslims from Americans or Jews. It is a response to US-Israeli violence, systematic and longstanding, that seeks to divide, undermine, control and humiliate Islamic societies. Despite its intense propaganda, the American establishment has failed to dupe most Americans on the Clash thesis. In a CBS/NYT poll done in September 2002, 21 percent Americans place "a lot of blame" on "US policies in the Middle East over the years, while another 54 percent place "some blame" on these policies. According to a Pew Research Center survey in August 2002, 53 percent Americans said that the attacks of September 11 were "mostly because" of the "political beliefs" of the terrorists; only 25 percent believed that the terrorists were motivated by "religious beliefs." [2] Finally, a Los Angeles Times poll in September 2002 shows that 58 percent Americans think that the attacks were "a direct result of United States' policy in the Middle East." [3] The Clash thesis and the associated war on terrorism carry little or no credibility outside the United States. This was first demonstrated in massive world wide protests against the planned US invasion of Iraq. Outside of the United States and Israel, the overwhelming majority of world opinion regarded this war to be illegal and immoral. Now, more than a year after a failed occupation of Iraq; after the revelations of systematic torture by Americans in Iraq, Afghanistan and Guantanamo Bay; after the erosion of liberties inside the United States; after the establishment of an American Gulag whose geographic expanse exceeds anything established by the Soviet Union; American prestige in the world has sunk to the lowest point in its history. In a poll conducted by the European Union in October 2003, 53 percent of EU citizens marked the United States as the second greatest threat to world peace. It's chief ally, Israel, bagged the first prize. [4] The bogey of America's 'global' and 'unending war' on terrorism will soon face another test. While the United States and its neocolonial allies have incarcerated thousands in Gulags spread across the world ­ without charges and without recourse to law ­ the 'war against terrorism' has produced very few convictions for terrorist crimes against the United States. If the al-Qaida is indeed a formidable adversary, with a global reach, and with sleeper cells in the United States itself, trained in the manufacture and use of WMDs, its failure to launch even a single operation against the United States since September 11, 2001, poses a problem for the credibility of the 'war against terrorism.' It is of course all too easy for the United States to take credit for this failure. 'Look how good we have been against this formidable foe. Our intelligence failed utterly before 9-11, but we have since fixed all the problems.' Alternatively, they might argue that they are fighting these terrorists in Baghdad and Najaf instead of Boston and New York. But this rhetoric will wear out over time. If indeed al-Qaida fails to launch another attack against American interests, on American soil or elsewhere, Americans too will begin to ask: Did the United States overreact. Worse, they might question if this war was a phony, a cover to curtail liberties, to launch preventive wars, to line the pockets of corporate executives with tens of billions stolen from American tax-payers. Have so many Americans died in vain ­ for a phony war? Have Americans died for Israel ­ to fulfill its strategic objective of balkanizing, pulverizing the larger Arab states? Once Americans begin to ask these questions, the consequences could be unpredictable for Israel and for the exercise of American power in the world. It is unlikely, however, that the US-Israeli axis will allow this kind of questioning to ever take place. The strategists in Washington and Tel Aviv understand very well how Newton's third law of motion operates in the realm of history. If the 'war on terrorism' is a phony, it can in time ­ once the preventive wars are extended to Iran, Syria and Pakistan ­ be made to produce the causes that will make it look more credible, even more compelling. Great powers have never lacked the ability or willingness to produce the wars their elites think are profitable. If the people do not get behind their wars ­ or, in our case, start falling back after getting in line ­ that is not a problem. Great democracies know how to manufacture consent. In the present circumstances, when history appears to be balanced on a knife-edge, that trick looks easier than ever. Let no one underestimate the power of great countries ­ and we are undoubtedly the greatest the world has ever seen ­ to convert phony wars into real ones. Although false, the clash thesis can become self-fulfilling.

Magnificent!

^ Why the suprise, sounds just like you after all .

JZK

JZK for the reminder

cajiib....a man of his character has the audacity to call A/Y a kafir That’s pretty serious, but honestly I can’t understand the life in me why people even listen to such men (warlords). The sooner we discard them, the better off we will all be.

Aside from all the accusations and tribal rhetoric, a small side point Farxiya ali qaaje I think I met this lady whilst I was in Somalia, what can I say, she sure is one strong lady, I was so amazed by this woman, exactly how I imagined the Somali women of the past (strong and assertive) to be which was surprising considering that she is a young woman (early 30s I’d guess). I’m not familiar with her work (not at all so I cannot comment on that), but judging from the hour or so she spent in my uncles office (compiling a report on the views of the Somali banks, Amal in this case, about the establishment of a central bank of Somalia) I left thinking kudos to Somali women . Yes, i now officially consider myself the official cheerleader for Somali women .

Qudhac Shu*t up and leave our most dear government alone :mad: . If the Saudis do not redeem themselves, we will not accept any handouts -see how they like that :cool: , which means you lot will loose out in the long run also .

does Soo Maal exist more discution here Does somaliland exist? More discussions!!! lool

OG sis no need to dig your heels because it is hard to defend what was done to those men. There are British men who were found guilty of murder and selling alcohol by Saudi courts, who were pardoned by Fahad and now walking free in the UK making money from selling their stories to newspapers. The LAW is not really the LAW, is it? The most saddening part of it all. Surely Rasuallah would be ashamed of this ummah right now.

Interesting read. As always we know the intentions of these warlords (I believe that the title explains it all), but it is not they that I place the hope of Somalia in, rather it is the elected government which is meant to represent me and serve my interests as a Somali. The warlords will fade with the rubbish once a viable government gains strength. I for one, am still waiting, early days yet, but I sure hope it comes soon, five years is not all that long when you think of it.

Duke, Yeah, it’s ok , I didn’t expect you to get it. They say men have the difficulty of keeping up with women when they turn to a corner subject matter (this is apparently scientifically proven, nothing I have made up, sort of like how women can multitask better than men), so anyway you are excused - it isn’t of your doing or fault. Have a nice day .

Maybe the crime they were convicted of is highway robbery, which means that beheading is the punishment. I'm not saying that this is correct, just putting a different perspective on it. Anyway ilaahey ha u naxariisto, if they were innocent then they will have their day in front of Allah on yawmul qiyaama and if they were guilty of the above then inshallah Allah has forgiven them.

Wiilo_duca, Even if Riyaale is a good-for-nothing leader, at least soon enough the people of SL can be rid of him. Isn’t that wonderful ? As for freedom of expression, show me which African country a citizen can do that. I realize that it is a right all should have, but currently dare I say it, it can be put on the backburner. Qorshel, I’m not sure about you (as I have not read all your posts) but I certainly don’t support any of the warlords, but judging from what I have read, I have not seen you do so . HA, Loooool , I knew you’d be upset, I didn’t expect you to like it, but nonetheless you know my stance, I wish them well and I’m not going to cry over the issue like I care, no yearning from my side. As for the PM, you bloody man, see this is when I need Femme, but let’s just keep it for the eyes of Wind ay ! Windtalker, See that’s just it, it’s called coming to an impartial conclusion. Sky, I like you , if one reason only- You make an accusation and so beautifully follow it with proof :rolleyes: . Yep that’s right I hate PL (you heard it here, first on SOL), how about the rest of the country considering that I made the same comments there? At least if you’re going to throw an accusation in my face, please add more flav, more colour more spice. It’s intriguing, I can read it on a quiet lazy afternoon while I wait for my nails to dry after painting them with that hot pink colour, you know, the one you should of have added to the accusation . Anyway which part of my comments suggests my supposed distaste for PL? And how is that I am unreasonable because I may disagree with you? You like green, I prefer hot pink, so what :rolleyes: ! and dont put words in my mouth, its not an insult to be associated with the south Tell me something, was it not you who wrote: and dont ever put puntland in the same corner as the south. its an insult to these peaceful ppl. Is someone else using the username with you? if there is one uncivilsed clan, its yours Nice and mature, so is this what Somaliland can expect if they choose to unite? If not the civilized factor, something just as pathetic and disgusting (which you’ve already begun). Anyway dude, listen carefully when I tell you this, it bothers me not if every regions wants secession, I wish them luck, but as for those who choose to remain united it’s about time that they got over their clannish ways and rhetorics (much like that which you spewed) and decided what is most important- Somalia. The way some of you boys act, you’d think that someone said something about your honour or something equally important.

while c/yussef gives these same onlf freedomfighter military and financial support. loooooool . Even if this was true (let's just assume it is), the guy is screwing them in more ways than can be imagined. I'm sure if we asked the ONLF fighters what they thought of our president, the result would not exactly be favourable to the old man. I'm not going to lie, i have no clue about this other than what my fiancee has passed on (considering that well let's just say his clansmen make up the bulk of the ONLF), but one thing i am sure of is that they would not be making him general in a war. This kinda reminds me of the famous saying of Malcolm X when he described Martin Luther King as being the commander in the war yet somehow he seems to be recieving rewards from the enemy, dare i say it, it smells kinda fishy wouldn't you say? Would Ethiopia be supporting a man who supposedly backs an anti-Ethiopian government organisation such as the ONLF? This is a contradiction at the very least. Either Ethiopia does not back CY or it does and hence cannot possible support the ONLF. Sorry i forgot about this one, just had to let it out. I realise you are angry brother oh so wonderful sky, but remember this is the net, i have an opinion just like you and it really is a wonderful day, hence no need to get angry . Mind you, i could not care any less if every little region, every little bloody street screemed out independence, if it means peace then me is happy, even if means contructing walls so that they don't mingle. SL have stated that they don't want us,loool, which is fine and soon enough the rest will also break away, this land, that land and one big glup, Ethiopia has achieved it all. Anyway good night

You’re doing this on purpose aren’t you? I can see that dispicable grin :mad: Why do you feel the need to patronize me like this? What have I ever done to you? Wait there till I get my brother, you’ll regret very fast Juma- that i promise you. Wait, wait, don't run just yet. It's a good 20 hr flight to London from here.

who says you of all ppl in here cant do that? I like that one , do you like it? I bet you found it most amusing when writing it, thought you hit gold ay! Eureka old boy, just wonderful! Two thumbs up and a pat on the back, very original to say the least. Anyway, as i was saying before you so rudely misunderstood :rolleyes: , at the rate that it's going thanks to the xabash i might not be able to return to Afgooye peacefully. Who knows, it might turn into another SG, where i automatically become a terrorists for wearing the xijaab. As for the bravery of our uncle, i was thinking the same thing you know (amazing how great minds think alike), but on a different aspect, what happened when they put him in jail? He seems to of have come out asking how high!

^Point proven. Anyway i don't have want to be quarreling over nothing-it's my opinion and i have a right to it so long as it isn't hurting anyone. We can all cry if we want, but SL is light years ahead (ok i might be exaggerating a tad but they are more civilised, don't get angry, do something about it). As for SL having the right (not including the disputed areas), the answer is simple, because the majority want it (is that not a good enough reason, not that i believe it to be correct but it is the case). And anyway, honestly speaking, what do SL have to gain by unifying with the rest of the country? I mean even the ones who have agreed to be united cannot agree on anything. It just goes to show, they have nothing to gain but everything to loose at least for the time being anyway. The only reason PL and the rest choose to be united is simply because they have too many ties which ultimately means they have no real choice but to stay together, it ain't exactly like they are more patriotic than SLs. I mean just analyse what you have written above, sure you speak of the success of PLs which is fine, but then with the same stroke attack every decent southerner. You don't even bother to reason that unlike PL, the south has the difficult task of reconciling countless clans (which is the problem of Somalia anyway). You don't bother stating that unlike PL, the south has a greater number of people(in the literal sense of it) to reconcile. And even more distrubing you bellittle those who you claim to want unity with by reffering being compared to them as an insult. If that doesn't say it all, walaahi i do not know what does. My point was simple, for southerners (all but SL really), clan is more important than country, for SL i personally believe it is the other way round.

^Greater miracles have happened before. Let's all see the glass as half-full, at least then it might succeed, at least then i can return to the beeraha of Afgooye in peace once more. On a more serious note though, do you think that it is possible that our president and his Ethiopian boss could possible get a similar lesson in "real politik", concentrating on the part "WE DO NOT WANT AMXAARO ON SOMALI LAND", and if possible give adeer a private tutorial on how to recapture SG . It would be very much appreciated if you could pass this on asap- i'm sure you understand the urgency of it all , i don't want to be a slave to any but the Almighty. Muchos Gracias

Wonderful piece sent to me by a friend-of course it took a woman to think of it. Let's hope we all learn a thing or two from this lady. ____________________________________________ Death of A Nation Dear Somalis Lost in the Diaspora Aristotle once said, "If liberty and equality, as is thought by some, are chiefly to be found in democracy, they will be best attained when all persons alike share in the government to the utmost." I will let you ponder of that notion for a minute. No, really let it sink in. Perhaps before I begin my thoughts that will be dismissed by most of you as the ramblings of a misguided youth, I should clarify that this is directed at Somalis scattered throughout the western world. Why Do I address you? Because you are the ones that sit peacefully in foreign lands while you're homeland is being wiped out of existence, me included of course. What can a humble being possibly say that has not been said by my fellow man? A nation filled with promise, hope, and splendors will never see its full potential, because it's war mongering inhabitants choose to live and die by the sword. Why is this? What will it take for you to open you're eyes? Now you are probably pondering why I choose to speak out about this subject at this present moment, when this issue has been amongst us for some time. Allow me to settle you're query. I recently watched the video that has been circulating around the cyber world. The video in question visually illustrates our so called representatives acting like mindless hooligans who have never witnessed anything remotely civilized. Yes, I said it. The Issue, you ask, that was the cause of such dismay was whether or not we need African peacekeepers to ordain law in our beloved nation. Yes you heard it Right, African Peacekeepers. I'll let that sink in for a minute too. African peacekeepers? Please tell me you too have also just witnessed the unconcealed irony in this Notion. Is that not the biggest Oxymoron ever uttered by Homo sapiens? AFRICAN PEACEKEEEPERS!!! Ok, ok, forgive me for the repetitive use of these two words; it’s just that never in a million years would I have suspected that these two nouns would be used in the same sentence. Now I have truly heard it all. How Sad Has Our situation became, that we need other Africans who are in farther more hopeless situations, to come in and monitor us. Are we that ill-fated? Is the notion of peace in Somalia so scabrous, that we need other nations to step in? Wait not just any other nation’s people. It's not as if they proposed UN peacekeepers, we are talking about the IGAD. How comical. Incase, i have lost you; allow me to give you a brief background of the IGAD. Basically another useless organization composed of nations such as Sudan, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Kenya, Djibouti, Uganda, etc. So the proposed theory is that these nations will come in and teach us how to be civil, and keep the peace sort of speak. Can anyone else see the transparent satire here? Nations that spontaneously have civil wars like it's going out of styles are teaching us to about Peace? Hmm, this should get quite interesting. Let’s examine these so called nations that so selflessly offered their services to us. There is contestant number One; Uganda, home to the infamous LRA, I'm sure their extensive knowledge of peaceful and stability can be of use to us (insert sarcasm). Maybe they can enlighten us how to massacre thousands at once without the world noticing, and sell our children to the slave trade. Perhaps Sudan can be our saviors, no wait a minute, aren’t they in the middle of genocide? What about Ethiopia? If u can overlook their minor indiscretion; aggressively contributing to the conflicts in Somalia. Give me a break, we might as well sell our nation to Bush Junior and let it be an army base. Think about it, the star spangled anthem is quite catchy. I for one would like to see a McDonalds on the streets of Bossaso. Get a grip, if this is the best solution we can come up with, why not. Asking The IGAD to help keep the peace is like asking Michael Jackson to baby-sit you're kids, or seeking martial advice from Scott Peterson. So my misplaced Somali brothers and sisters, Isn’t about time we took some action? If this is not an outcry for us to step in, I don’t know what is. I maybe young, infact I can hardly remember Somalia when I left it, but I will tell you this, Somalia is our home; it is our heritage, our land, our history. Let’s do something about it. To my fellow youth, educate yourselves, the sword can not save our homeland, but the Pen, my friends. Education is the greatest weapon, a weapon so profound it can eliminate any vengeful warlord. Our generation is the future; we have seen what the ones that preceded us have accomplished, Death and destruction. We can choose to make a difference not only with words but with unadulterated actions, Or in the words of an unknown character in the movie black hawk down, “We can sit by and watch a country destroy itself On CNN,†You’re Choice. I for one have made mine. By : Idil Abdisalan Farah Email : Western_hypocrisy@hotmail.com

Simple, it's more civilized than the crap posted on this forum. Just have a good hard look at this forum, many support certain individuals because warlord X hails from Clan Y (which suprisingly :rolleyes: they so happen to be born of). At least with Somaliland, they have one common ground, they want nothing to do with the ********* of the "south". I'm a southerner and i've had enough of them myself, namely the puppets who openly want to sell my country to the enemy (from both sides of the decedant spectrum). At least, they (SL) are working for the good of their people, I can't say the same for the southerners (which mind you includes PL, basically all but SL).

^ I still prefer the Somaliland news though, less hatred really. At least it can be discussed over a cup of shaah without the fear of having a cup or even worse bullets flying at you .