Rahima, i got plenty of other little secrets for ya love Can't wait to see them

On a different note though, what's the difference between physical murderers and those who do so by sending money back home to kill the "enemy"? Same Same I would say, and we have a lot more of those running around!

Og_Girl, Looks like you did some skim reading (understandable with so many pages) because you missed the crux of the discussion. The topic was not about this incident as such (we’ve all acknowledges that it is a hoax, I wrote this in my first post), but rather has Allah turned people into animals and will He There was a nomad who did not believe this and I provided him with proofs of it indicating that just because this story happens to be a lie, it does not mean that Allah does not turn people who have incured his wrath into animals. Basically this was the topic at hand; if you read all the posts carefully you will see this. And nothing taken to heart sister . I have no problems with being addressed and asked any questions, but there is no reason to be rude and disrespectful which is why I responded in the manner that I did (which I realize is not the excusable). I don’t see how you can say thata hadith is ambiguous and when asked how so, you can go on about the intentions of the poster, get angry, focus on simple wording in the English language (which doesn’t change the point) and then make claims that saxiix hadiths are unauthentic-like I said I had all the Arabic in front of me, with the interpretations. When she specified her concerns, I responded to them. Till the issues as I have explained are addressed, I am done with this anyway . Anyways good to see you back

Bambina, Yeah I suppose, but like Hibo pointed out, unless you keep the only copy and none of your male relatives view the tape, it won’t work. The other thing is, somehow or other all tapes just seem to make it on the Somali market. So many swear black and blue they will keep the only copy, yet somehow it's out there. photos should be enough My sentiments exactly!

^I'll save you the trouble honey, flex your moderator powers if you so wish. By making such threats you are hurting SOL, for basically what you are saying is that one cannot disagree with a moderator for fear of just that-makes no difference to me really, but it will deter many nomads from conversing freely with moderators. If indeed I was being rude at times, it is very obvious from our exchange that the action was not initiated from my corner and having said that, considering that the moderator herself was involved in it, it’s ludicrous to even take such action. But it is a smart move, when it gets too hot, quite replying and close the topic-much easier for you than addressing the actual point . I on the other hand will not be replying till you address the objective of the discussion (which you defined to begin with)instead of circling around small detail which does not change the big picture or jumping on word selections. Address the issue of Allah turning people into animals and your claim that the hadiths were ambiguous. Address all the remarks you made about contradictions (beast/animal, rats/monkeys-swine) in light of my explanation to you. Elucidate on what exactly you were right about for thus far you have being wrong on all accounts unless you want a summary (and don't even bother trying to analyse Rahima-I'm refering to the topic). And finally explain how you came to conclude that the hadith as narrated in Abu Dawud is unauthentic, when it is in sahiih abu Dawud (and I gave you even the exact page). When you do so, instead of going on about how many tribes (which is why i responded before you got home, it's a non-issue for this discussion and there was no need for you to avoid the important matter and waste your time), i shall respond. Till then i shall concentrate on important matters. As for the respect, I’m not sure about you, but i don't converse here to gain the respect of people. If you had respect for me or if you don't, no difference to me .

So we were so effortlessly supposed to connect the dots miya? Must be me. All you had to do was ask politely mate ! Nothing which I have stated above though is complex. Rahima, your unpaid research was weak. Now you have blatantly said that the Quran (the complete book) just mentioned ONE tribe (and specified the animals regarding the same tribe) of the jews in the sura while conveniently leaving out the rest so that the “hadith†can reveal the rest. For the ayah, not necessarily just tribe but also group (there were whole tribes of the jews which incurred the wrath of Allah). A tribe is a type of group no? Likewise we can say the group of jews which incurred the wrath of Allah or the tribes of the jews which incured the wrath of Allah-wording woman, wording! I see that when you have nothing else you want to argue over the small matters which don’t change the point that you disagree with- ALLAH DOES CHANGE PEOPLE INTO ANIMALS, hence the point which you somehow missed was, the ayah and hadith do not contradict (which you were saying before), why? Because both are not speaking about the Jews as a whole! Rather of groups and/or tribes amongst the Jews, be they particular tribes or a group involved in a particular sin together. Either way, it doesn’t change the point of this whole discussion. What I find most amusing is that every time I address one of your points, you become obsessed with another choice of words, one time it was the beast matter and now the group/tribe issue. Get over it and stop being so trivial. IT DOESN’T CHANGE THE POINT I WAS MAKING! Why don’t you just admit you are arguing over absolutely nothing? BTW, the hadith and Qur’an complement one another. The Qur’an although complete DOES need the Sunnah for it to be fully understood. The Qur’an commands that we pray, the Sunnah (hadiths) instruct us how. You cannot have one without the other! I’m not home but I’A when I do get there, I’ll show you proof that there weren’t a tonne of Bani’esreal tribes that were transformed at different times into different animals which is exactly what ur feedings us! Lord have mercy :rolleyes: , this is what I mean by looking for just an argument. Cajiib walaahi. Even if we say for arguments sake it was the same tribe, but at different points in history, or that it was the same tribe at the same instance of history, what bloody difference does it make to this particular discussion? This is useless. You don’t even bother acknowledging any important issues elucidated, rather all you can do is concentrate on minuscule matters which are either a choice of wording ama don’t have any weighting on the core of this discussion. About the rest of ur blah blah… this lil charade of righteousness is tedious. I’ll let you have the last word, Walaahi I could barely read all that drivel, let alone respond to the number of inconsistencies in your entire argument. Righteousness? rich coming from you . If memory serves me correctly, was it not you who was preaching about the Islamic mannerisms in one paragraph and then hurling insult at me in the next? Must be me :rolleyes: But please continue your maturity and considering that you will be going to all the trouble of showing me that there was not more than one tribe of Bani Israeel (like it changes anything in the objective of this discussion), why don’t you point out my "inconsistencies". Me is thinking that you want the address the former because you think you are onto a good thing (gotta get it out, gotta make my point -I on the other hand can’t wait to give you explanations for anything else you throw my way ), but all my other “inconsistencies†well let’s just say you disagree with them, but don’t really know why.

"In a world were the muslim lands are united under one amir " Hopefully in our lifetime. I know it may seem far-fetched at the moment, but Allah can make anything happen right?

I don't know who you are talking about and where you live that that has happened but i have never seen that. Not from any tribe and considering i have befriended all tribes i have never seen one do so!iam disagreeing with you, i think you have exaggerated on that one. It happened and most probably still happens in Somalia. My parents used to see it for themselves- so no over exaggertaion. Ask the older generation, many will attest to that and many just as sickening incidences.

You big sap! Shame on you. Zephyrine, leave it to me to knock some sense into her -it’s that Farah :mad: -he has her mesmerized.

According to some Somali women/girls, ninka cadaanka ama midka indhayarka are not "real men". But then the ********* of it all is that in a few months the tape is watched at so many qaad sessions by so many men anyway. It is for this reason that i see no difference between women-only weddings which are taped and the mixed ones. Same Same.

^Your problem dear is that you have an anger issue (like I and many other have told you so many times before). Address that first before you hurt someone. Kaleida, The absurdity of this situation is how you have twisted it so much of it that you actually have begun to believe your own nonsense . You went and searched for a hadith to justify something ridiculous. Which was? Was I trying to justify this incident or have you once again conveniently forgotten my opinion of it? If you are however referring to my justification of Allah transforming people into animals, it is that which Allah Himself has stated, as a Muslim I will always stand by that, if that is ridiculous to you, then to each their own. Lets leave the snide remarks there and get back to the hadith, shall we? Love the hypocrisy of it all . You write derogatory remarks to me in almost every single one of your posts in this thread, and then have the audacity to talk about the mannerisms in an Islamic discussion-I’m wondering, do the same laws not apply to your royal highness? If indeed I was being rude and all of that which you said, doing the same in return only highlights the hypocritical tendency which you display- at the very least dear, practice what you preach. I have yet to address any of your points, simply because you were not specific (which I have asked you many many times-mind reading is not my forte). If you had explained yourself earlier perhaps an explanation would of have come your way, instead it was clear from the get go you came armed with opinions of other posts and threads. You never explained or went back to it. Only because like I explained (and if you had the decency to take it in good faith) I had to search for it (manually and not through the internet, which you can appreciate is time consuming), and as I thought, why the need for me to spend so much time searching for it when there are proofs from the Quran and Bukhari/Muslim which highlight the same point and I have exact references to. At that point, I was under the impression I was conversing with my sister in Islam who was curious about the existence of a particular issue, not an impending argument to discredit me or the hadiths as ambiguous. you didn’t know about the issue Twisting again. What issue may that be? Could be that it occurred at the time of the nabi? Was that our point of discussion-No! The point was does Allah turn people into animals. Not knowing whether or not it occurred at the time of Rasuallah does not take anything away from the point that I was providing proof for (for someone who was denying the whole point). So what’s your point? See the irrelevance I was talking about? This hadith conflicts with the above verse for the jews in the Sura were turned into monkey and swines(pigs NOT rats) and then the hadith says Rats. The hadith was posted NEXT TO THE verse, yet seems to contractict it. And this my dear, constitutes MIS-QUOTING and MISUNDERSTANDING in my books! This is why THE CONTEXT is important. Something I subtlety tried to tell you in my 1st post…. ! Glad you admit it is your deficiency (which before you loose it, we all have)! The authentic hadiths and Quran never contradict one another (which I’m sure you know). Having said that, I for example know that when I immediately do not understand the link between a hadith and an ayah, it’s always my misunderstanding. However in this case, I did not have any problems with understanding it (and considering that you did not address this specifically and I am not a mind reader, this could not be addressed). The reason for this is that I know that Jews have a grave history of disobeying Allah and they are a race (like Cushitic people), hence one group of Jews were turned into monkeys and swine (for committing sins at a particular time) and another lot rats. Why must they contradict? This is what I meant by when I said it makes perfect sense to me (and I couldn’t understand your reasoning of talking about ambiguity). The two do not have to restrict or contradict one another. It is not even an issue of religious interpretation, just simple understanding. It’s like saying that one group of Somalis in Saudi Arabia were punished with the death penalty, and then saying another group of Somalis in Saudi Arabia were punished with a 10-year jail term for their crimes? Is this contradictory? Different groups of Somalis and just like the hadith and ayah different tribes of Bani Israiil (Jews). Also the hadith seems illogical in context: The prophet scw says he DOESN’T KNOW what the jews did and HE DOESN’T SEE THEM but he is SURE they were changed into rats? HOW? And the rest of the stuff about milk and rats…. Not a clue here! Ali R.A was quoted as saying that (something to the extent of) if Islam was built on just logic we would wipe the bottom of the khuf (leather socks) when making ablution and not the top, because as dictated by common sense, the bottom is dirtier than the top. With that it becomes evident that ones common sense and perceived logic is not something to rely on. As for this particular case sister, could it possibly be that Allah has offered some of the knowledge to the nabi and not others (e.g. some surahs in the Quran, such as surah Qaf, the prophet did not know the meaning of the first ayah)? The wisdom with this is with Allah. We see this many a times; Allah reveals some of the knowledge and not all. It is not meel kadhac of the prophet, he didn’t know it all and it is not like I made up the hadith-IT IS IN Bukhari. Now you are questioning the actual matn of the hadith, not context, and you cannot acknowledge the significance of Bukhari and ask such questions (you must always know there is a reasoning). As for the not seeing them and knowing, he was a prophet, it was knowledge inspired to him by Allah (which we should all know)- this is exactly the same as him knowing many things he did not see with his own eyes, for an example just take a look at the many hadiths based on scientific phenomena- so are we then to deny those hadiths because we then say HOW DID HE KNOW BECAUSE HE DID NOT SEE THEM? Basically, the moment that I read such a hadith (considering that its authentication is very clear), I don’t doubt it for one second and hence when nabiga says that “Nobody knows what they didâ€, then the answer is but simple! Allah did not inform him-Rasuallah was only but a man and he only knew that which was taught/inspired to him by Allah. The other issue is, if you acknowledge that Bukhari is all saheeh you acknowledge that every single last hadith is that which was said by Rasuallah and hence cannot doubted, even if something does not make sense to you. As for the camel milk issue, according to the Torah (as was believed/is believed by the Jews) products of camels (be it meat or milk) are forbidden-hence the rats also did not drink the camel milk but did drink the milk of the sheep (which is allowed in the Torah). This hadith conflicts with the verse in the Sura AGAIN for it says beasts. Also, does this mean the fact that they were turned into lizards is clear and the specific lizards have no identifying ways or whether they turned at all is unclear? Does it refer to the same time as the Sura? It is a translation! Beast can also be translated as animal. Are lizards, monkeys, swine all not animals or beasts-however you want to put it (I realize that beast is especially used for large four-legged animals, but it can also be used for all animals). Also the hadith states a tribe of Bani Isra'il. There were many tribes which made up Bani Isra’il, not just one, once again no contradiction. It’s like saying a tribe of the Somali people, it doesn’t mean all Somalis, just tribe X. The hadith does not conflict with the ayah, it may seemingly be that way to you, but the Quran and an authentic hadith do not contradict one another. I personally do not follow this entire hadith. The 1st part seems general, while the second part specific. Care to elaborate? Which part exactly? Is it the “And there will be some people who will stay near the side of a mountain and in the evening their shepherd will come to them with their sheep and ask them for something, but they will say to him, 'Return to us tomorrow.'â€?? This isn’t authentic, so no need to go into it. The authentic ones are ambiguous enough. IT IS a sahiih (authentic) hadith girlfriend! How did you come to the conclusion it is not authentic? Abu Dawud although it may not be to the status of Bukhari and Muslim (for there are daciif hadiths), does have many sahiih hadiths. I actually have it in front of me right now in Arabic- Volume no. 2 (all sahiih hadiths), page 763 to be exact (that classified separately into authentic and daciif hadiths by Sh. Albani Rahimuallah). Just go to you local Islamic book store and hopefully they will have all the volumes (be sure to ask for that set out by Sh. Albani to get that exact page number, if not look it up). Final note, NONE of these hadith prove anything. Even after the explanations of your concerns, you still hold to that? Even after the explanation of the hadiths and ayah do you still believe that Allah has not/will not turn people into animals? All I asked was for you to clarify the hadith that you brought forth and you started to foam at the mouth instead and ask me to get the books! You might want to go back and re-read your replies to me. Perhaps a few things might become clear; primarily the rude and disrespectful way you addressed me- uncalled for . exclusively address the hadith! I think I have!

^Actually no, if we had more sisters we wouldn’t have so many men discussing ways to destroy our country and of course the lives of those who suffer most (you guessed it, we women and children). Men (except for a few) should be banned from discussing the politics or the state of our country. We The Brain, they Pinky . are culture is very patriarchal,and most of the somali men I met don't like women to get into "siyaasad" stuff Because it’s the only thing they think they are good at, but the irony of it is that they suck at that too :rolleyes: . Our country is in the state it is in, because our men are such bad politicians, are blinded supporters that sit at the mukhayaado cheering on their evil man or are decent men who do nothing but watch from the sidelines. Sometimes I swear it; I reckon I could run the country better than these hooligans. What we need is a male president and a parliament full of women-that would be the solution. I am very serious with this, however considering that our society is as someone already stated so patriarchal, we can throw that out the window. In no way are these comments derived from feminist ideologies, just going by what I have observed.

^Really, how come I’ve never seen you do it :eek: . Rokko, I scare myself these days, the Aussie obsession with sport has affected me walaahi . Although I never sit down to watch sport (too long and boring), I get upset by an Australian loss. I’m mourning over the cricket loss can you believe it, and I don’t even know the rules of the game . I need to get back home to Somalia walaahi before I get sucked in too far. Suldaanka, since when did you become a fully fledged swagman ?

Either way, having seen two small kids, suffering from this, it feels like suspicion is not enough to deny vaccinating the poor kids. Who knows, in 60 years or so, there might be news about how the africans were poissened..but without hard evidence.. As I see the issue. If indeed side effects do arise (as they do with most vaccinations), we must weigh up the positives and the negatives then go with that which is more beneficial. Thus far, nothing is concrete and we must do everything within our capacity to fight polio and similar disorders which can be alleviated by simple precautionary measures.

BN, Beautiful pictures walaahi (makes ya wanna go back asap). Thanks

The incident of the wedding is no surprise sister. Don’t forget, Somalis are the same the people who wash dishes like they would with a dog after their fellow Muslim brother/sister had eaten from it because there hail from tribe X. These are a people who share a religion, culture, language and we treat them like this, why then the surprise over foreigners? Somalis generally are racist, just watch for their vocabulary. As for the issue of the jews, I suggest you read a book titled Al-wala’ wa’l-Bara’ authored by Muhamaad Saeed al-Qahtani. It will clear up many issues

Kaleida, You’re still going on about irrelevant issues I see! Like I said dear, be specific and come up with an issue of substance then perhaps we can have a productive discussion instead of this embarrassing exchange which you somehow seem to be relishing. I posed an issue to you, and instead of addressing that all you seem to be preoccupied with is play-ground teasing. Under a more joyous circumstance I’d be more than happy to , but this is disheartening to say the least. You can’t be complaining about nothing. Is not that hadith (which you finally conveniently admit is within context) sufficient, or even the ayah? Could it be you just don’t get it (It makes perfect sense to me honey ) or just wanting to argue for the sake of an argument. Me is thinking it is the latter (very obvious) so with that i'll leave it and return to my exam preperation .

Kaleida, You’re doing it again dear-going on about non-issues. First your points were specific, which I addressed and then you generalized which warranted my response. Whilst each of us is entitled to our opinions, allow me to direct you towards a small matter in the hadeeths quoted. Some as you will note speak of specific incidences in the past, however there are others where Rasuallah explicitly states that there will come a time (given with stipulations) where such a calamity will once again occur-hence the argument of restrictions to specific times is fallacious (for this discussion anyway). Perhaps if you came down from the high horse of deciding who and who cannot quote from our nabi scw, you would notice that your points are of almost next to no relevance for this discussion (unless of course you are referring to other threads which I sense you are). If you want to make an analysis of the intentions, actions and ways of Rahima, do so for it is not like I can stop you, but make that the topic and not the hadiths I posted. These hadiths, like I’ve said are clear and do not have others which contradict. The context is provided for some, if you were interested in a historical review of them, like you said no person is closer to Allah and this religion than another-go and find it! Perhaps we don’t have the time to go off stating every single person in the chain or even the whole story behind it, but the status of the hadith has already been established and the actual matn is explanatory. If it is not clear to you, certainly criticizing an individual is not a way to question and if you feel that there is no other way, this is your religion and your responsibility. Don’t expect others to spoon feed you, like I said take the initiative and search before you go off accusing others. This is a discussion forum dear, we are Muslims hence I know when an individual quotes from Bukhari and Muslim, there is no cloud over the hadith (and If I doubt it, all I have to do is get my Bukhari and Muslim out-if you don’t have it get it for clearly it is an issue). As for understanding (whilst I do agree some hadiths if not put into context can be misleading) these are like I said perhaps for the billionth time clear! These are not issues of intricacy. If you believe that I was doing injustice by quoting these hadiths and in fact the meaning is not apparent, why don’t you address that instead of going on about non-issues. Provide your proof which states otherwise, this is the way you address issues, because going by your opinions, we laywomen and men cannot discuss Islam for God forbid we don’t quote the isnad or complete historical context of the hadith. We are here to learn from one another, if any person questions anything quoted by another user, the solution is simple, SEARCH. Like I said, this is your religion, your responsibility, don’t loose your head because someone did not according to you sufficiently give you the whole context As for my art of selective response, it comes in handy sister when you can see that there is no point to it

Say (O Muhammad to the people of the Scripture): "Shall I inform you of something worse than that, regarding the recompense from Allah: those (Jews) who incurred the Curse of Allah and His Wrath, those of whom (some) He transformed into monkeys and swines, those who worshipped Taghut (false deities); such are worse in rank (on the Day of Resurrection in the Hellfire), and far more astray from the Right Path." Surah Al-Maidah Ayah 60 In context, the full surah http://quranicfinder.com/index.php?translator=muhsinkhan&surah=5 Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "A group of Israelites were lost. Nobody knows what they did. But I do not see them except that they were cursed and changed into rats, for if you put the milk of a she-camel in front of a rat, it will not drink it, but if the milk of a sheep is put in front of it, it will drink it." I told this to Ka'b who asked me, "Did you hear it from the Prophet?" I said, "Yes." Ka'b asked me the same question several times; I said to Ka'b. "Do I read the Torah? (i.e. I tell you this from the Prophet.)" Bukhari http://www.islam.us/hadith/bukhari/054.sbt.html Abu Sa'id reported that an Arab of the desert came to God's Messenger1 and said: I live in a low land abounding in lizards, and these are the common diet of my family, but he (the Holy Prophet) did not make any reply. We said to him: Repeat it (your problem) and so he repeated it, but he did not make any reply. (It was repeated thrice ) Then God's Messenger1 called him out at the third time saying: O man of the desert, verily God cursed or showed wrath to a tribe of Bani Isra'il and distorted them to beasts which move on the earth. I do not know, perhaps this (lizard) may be one of them. So I do not eat it, nor do I prohibit the eating of it. Muslim http://www.isna.net/library/hadith/muslim/021_smt.html NOTE: Even if someone were to argue that all the other proofs do not mean literal physical transformation, the two above hadith are clear unambigious proofs that the transformation can be physical, hence Allah does turn people into animals for their transgressions. Narrated Abu 'Amir or Abu Malik Al-Ash'ari: that he heard the Prophet saying, "From among my followers there will be some people who will consider illegal sexual intercourse, the wearing of silk, the drinking of alcoholic drinks and the use of musical instruments, as lawful. And there will be some people who will stay near the side of a mountain and in the evening their shepherd will come to them with their sheep and ask them for something, but they will say to him, 'Return to us tomorrow.' Allah will destroy them during the night and will let the mountain fall on them, and He will transform the rest of them into monkeys and pigs and they will remain so till the Day of Resurrection." Bukhari http://www.ummah.net/Al_adaab/hadith/bukhari/had69.html Narrated Abu Amir or Abu Malik: AbdurRahman ibn Ghanam al-Ash'ari said: Abu Amir or Abu Malik told me--I swear by Allah another oath that he did not believe me that he heard the Apostle of Allah say: There will be among my community people who will make lawful (the use of) khazz and silk. Some of them will be transformed into apes and swine. Abu Dawud http://www.2muslims.com/Quran_and_Hadith/hadith/abu_dawud/032.sat.html

Not that he cant do it. But you understood it as that I denied Allahs ability to do it. So you dig into the Hadiths to prove wrong what you think I meant, but what I havent meant. No that is not how I understood it, I got you perfectly, because you once again state I have talked about this with people recently as it was the hottest topic of the last week. The punishment of deformity by Allah wouldnt be as drastic as to change one into an animal. I was responding to your point concerning that Allah does not (note: not cannot) people into animals. If I was responding to any doubts you may have over the power of Allah I would be quoting hadiths regarding the powers of Allah , but as you can see I was very specific with my quotes in that they were referring to the point you do not accept that Allah turns people into animals. Anyway like I said to kaleida and as I’ll respond to her also, the other hadiths are clear cut, perhaps they shed better light on the situation. As for my attitude, whilst in all honesty I didn’t mean it out of arrogance (I re-read my response to you and perhaps I see things differently, but no arrogance attached walaahi ) inshallah I shall keep this in mind. Likewise allow me to throw some advice your way-keep your emotions in check and be very careful about what you say about diinta . In my experience, when a learned person/sheikh quotes a hadeeth, they mention the precise time, the circumstances under which the prophet said so and explain the context of the hadeeth. (and if it was an academic discussion, include the chain of reporters!). So YES, the hadeeth are STRAY for you have failed to accompany it with any of the above! This is not a scholarly report sister ; it is a discussion in a forum. If you wanted to verify it, all you had to do was a google search (which I always do if I want to verify a hadith I have never heard and even if possible search for it in authentic books) even if someone is too lazy to reference in detail because at the end of the day it is your religion. I agree that some of the hadeeth are quite clear, but the ones you have quoted ARE NOT and I’m sure 90% of the people reading them have some or the other misunderstaning of either the applicability or the context! Ok, so the question was, does Allah turn people into animals? Is this the part you question :confused: ? I’m not exactly sure as to where your argument is directed, are you disagreeing with the point that Allah does in fact turn people into animals or just the fact that I did not referenced my sources? You don’t have to accept anything anyone writes (because I sure as hell don’t) and likewise I don’t believe the issue of hadith status and classification is in doubt, but just for ease of mind, allow me to provide you with the links-perhaps this will clarify any other issues you may have for according to your last post no one was denying this and I was trying to convince others of this hoax (both as I highlighted you were wrong about)! All in all girlfriend this is a point of no contest. I provided hadiths, if you want the chain of narrations, I don’t think SOL is the place to go off posting names, all we need to know is that the hadiths are Saheeh, that they are in Bukhari and Muslims hence there is no question upon their validity (we don’t need to bother ourselves with chain of narrators like I said Bukhari and Muslim). Furthermore, both Bukhari and Muslim are available in most Islamic book stores, if the net is not sufficient you could always buy them As for the context, although to me they seem pretty clear and it isn’t one hadith or are there others stating otherwise, I have provided the links. Any more than this, you need to question the culamaa’. I did not post my opinion, rather what Allah and His prophet stated-I’m sure that is not a point to be tense over . Differences of opinion according to some arise on almost all issues, we need to assess what can and cannot come under this banner-if we pay too much attention to differences of opinion then even the five prayers come under scrutiny, all points/sources posted are those in accordance with Ahlus-sunnah wal jamaaca.

^Looks like you're the only person who actually got it Kaleidoscopic Rahima, please stop quoting stray hadeeths and the Quran. This story is a hoax. No1 is questioning the infinite capibilities of Allah swt. We dont need to blv in these kind of stories (there r far better examples of natural calamities and human suffering right infront of us)or to prove them right by quoting hadeeth. We can just about support anything these days with hadeeth. But Hadeeth is contextual and has various levels of application and you cannot just quote a little snip here and there. Firstly these are not stray hadeeths, these are very clear and very authentic (Bukhari and Muslim). I am not quoting out of context, this is not a matter of confusion, and the ayah for example is very explicit as are the hadeeths. Yes there are hadiths which need to be understood in context and not everything is so literal-but this sister is very clear. We are not discussing intricate matters rather the discussion thus far was very simple, does Allah turn people into animals, and as is evident from the proofs I gave, YES! That’s all. Having said that, yes certain individuals were questioning this (and which is why I quoted the hadiths), dare I remind you: Allah swt doesnt turn ppl into animals. Which if you had followed, is what I was correcting. AND, I did state: As for this case, although i acknowledge that it could be possible (for Allah can do anything) I don't believe it. So considering that I myself don’t believe in this story, why would I be trying to validate this incident with hadeeths. You are confusing the two, I can say that this story is a hoax but I don’t have to deny that Allah does turn people into animals. Furthermore, it was you who questioned the hadith I posted with: Are you sure deformity referred to transformation into animals Rahima? Cuz I thought it meant deformation in physical features due to illness and other genetic and natural defects. So I elaborated and gave more specific hadiths and proof from the Quran! Nothing more dear . In future perhaps you should be following the sequence of the posts more closely- it would make more sense Qac, don't just jump the gun.. Considering that I was the person who posted the hadiths, perhaps it is well advised that you my brother not jump the gun. Read my response to Kaleida, you’ll get it then .

Kaleidoscopic Sorry sister, but I could not find the reference for that exact hadith, however the following a more precise and I have provided the references (The Qur’an itself, and Sahih Bukhari/Muslim which as we know are both completely the words of Rasuallah). Hope that helps! Say (O Muhammad to the people of the Scripture): "Shall I inform you of something worse than that, regarding the recompense from Allah: those (Jews) who incurred the Curse of Allah and His Wrath, those of whom (some) He transformed into monkeys and swines, those who worshipped Taghut (false deities); such are worse in rank (on the Day of Resurrection in the Hellfire), and far more astray from the Right Path." Surah Al-Maidah Ayah 60 Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "A group of Israelites were lost. Nobody knows what they did. But I do not see them except that they were cursed and changed into rats, for if you put the milk of a she-camel in front of a rat, it will not drink it, but if the milk of a sheep is put in front of it, it will drink it." I told this to Ka'b who asked me, "Did you hear it from the Prophet?" I said, "Yes." Ka'b asked me the same question several times; I said to Ka'b. "Do I read the Torah? (i.e. I tell you this from the Prophet.)" Bukhari Abu Sa'id reported that an Arab of the desert came to God's Messenger1 and said: I live in a low land abounding in lizards, and these are the common diet of my family, but he (the Holy Prophet) did not make any reply. We said to him: Repeat it (your problem) and so he repeated it, but he did not make any reply. (It was repeated thrice ) Then God's Messenger1 called him out at the third time saying: O man of the desert, verily God cursed or showed wrath to a tribe of Bani Isra'il and distorted them to beasts which move on the earth. I do not know, perhaps this (lizard) may be one of them. So I do not eat it, nor do I prohibit the eating of it. Muslim Narrated Abu 'Amir or Abu Malik Al-Ash'ari: that he heard the Prophet saying, "From among my followers there will be some people who will consider illegal sexual intercourse, the wearing of silk, the drinking of alcoholic drinks and the use of musical instruments, as lawful. And there will be some people who will stay near the side of a mountain and in the evening their shepherd will come to them with their sheep and ask them for something, but they will say to him, 'Return to us tomorrow.' Allah will destroy them during the night and will let the mountain fall on them, and He will transform the rest of them into monkeys and pigs and they will remain so till the Day of Resurrection." Bukhari Narrated Abu Amir or Abu Malik: AbdurRahman ibn Ghanam al-Ash'ari said: Abu Amir or Abu Malik told me--I swear by Allah another oath that he did not believe me that he heard the Apostle of Allah say: There will be among my community people who will make lawful (the use of) khazz and silk. Some of them will be transformed into apes and swine. Abu Dawud

Somalia launches emergency polio immunization campaign With polio continuing to spread in nearby Ethiopia and Yemen, campaign rushes to protect Somali children 17 JUNE 2005 | NAIROBI, KENYA -- On 17 June, Somalia will launch a nationwide polio immunization campaign, to urgently protect the country's children from life-long paralysis caused by the disease. The campaign comes as the World Health Organization (WHO) Office for the Eastern Mediterranean issued a stark warning that Somalia could become re-infected with polio from nearby Ethiopia and Yemen, the latest two of 16 previously polio-free countries re-infected due to an ongoing outbreak in west and central Africa. Somalia has been polio-free since October 2002. “The outbreaks of polio in Ethiopia and Yemen, coupled with large population movements between Somalia and its neighbours have put Somali children at risk of polio,’’ said Dr David Heymann, Representative for Polio Eradication at WHO in Geneva, Switzerland. "The outbreaks in Ethiopia and Yemen have already paralyzed 230 children." "It is crucial that all efforts are made to ensure that the poliovirus is not allowed to reverse the gains made so far in Somalia," agreed Dr Ibrahim Betelmal, WHO Representative for Somalia. In addition to Ethiopia and Yemen, Dr Betelmal highlighted the outbreak in Sudan, which over the past 12 months has left 152 children paralysed, as further evidence at the speed with which the disease can re-infect a country. "It is crucial to prevent this happening in Somalia," he explained. The campaign is launched as an emergency preventive measure, and aims to rapidly boost children's immunity to polio. Health officials stressed the importance of ensuring every child is vaccinated during the activity, particularly as only an estimated one-quarter of all children are routinely immunized against polio in Somalia. Supported by WHO and UNICEF, tens of thousands of volunteers, health workers, parents, as well as community, religious and traditional leaders will systematically go house-to-house and village-to-village across the country, to hand-deliver polio vaccine to every child under the age of five years. The activity will be held on 17-19 June in Puntland, on 18 -20 June in Somaliland, and from 24-26 June in the south and central areas of the country. To further maximise the immunological impact of the campaign, the recently-developed ‘monovalent oral polio vaccine type 1’ (mOPV1) will be used. This novel vaccine will more rapidly boost immunity among children, as it works faster than the commonly-used ‘trivalent oral polio vaccine.’ The immunization campaign follows similar activities already conducted in February and April. Organizers of the campaign have urged all parents, community, traditional and religious leaders to participate in the immunization activity, to ensure all children of Somalia can benefit from the protection offered by the polio vaccine, regardless of previous immunization status. Further polio immunization campaigns will be held in July, August and September, to ensure all children receive sufficient doses of the polio vaccine to be adequately protected from the disease. Meanwhile, UNICEF Somalia Representative, Jesper Morch appealed for more support for the polio eradication effort. â€Because of the risk of the re-infection of Somalia and other polio-free countries, it is more urgent than ever to fill a US$50 million global funding gap by July.†Of this figure, nearly US$2 million is needed for Somalia - to enable continued immunization activities in the second half of the year. An additional US$200 million is required for 2006 activities. “Failure to urgently meet these funding needs will compromise immunization activities and threaten the polio eradication effort, not only in Somalia but worldwide.†said Mr Morch. The Global Polio Eradication Initiative is spearheaded by the WHO, Rotary International, the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and UNICEF. Since 1988, the incidence of the disease has been reduced by 99 percent, from 350,000 cases per year to 456 cases in 2005. In 2005, the number of reported polio cases by country are (as at 7 June): Yemen (220 cases), Nigeria (144 cases), Sudan (25 cases), Indonesia (28 cases), India (18 cases), Ethiopia (10 cases), Pakistan (7 cases), Niger (1 case), Afghanistan (2 cases) and Cameroon (1 case). Editors’ note The 16 previously polio-free countries suffering importations of poliovirus as a result of the 2003-2005 outbreak in west and central Africa are: Benin, Botswana, Burkina Faso, Cameroon, Central African Republic, Chad, Côte d'Ivoire, Ethiopia, Ghana, Guinea, Indonesia, Mali, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Togo and Yemen.

^The first two hadiths are from Bukhari and Muslim (which are all aunthetic hadiths)-so i believe the proof lies with that. As for the third, inshallah i shall try to find the exact source. I remember studying it years ago, i just googled to find it based on my recollection. I'll get back to you as soon as i can . As for people being trasnformed at the time of Rasuallah i do not know, but like i said Bukhari and Muslim are as about authentic as the hadiths get.

^So what do you say?