^I’ve being labeled many things- I think if memory serves me correctly I’ve even being labeled a lackey of CY. It doesn’t worry me, I’m certain of myself and most often they are results of me dishing them some truths . You shouldn’t take it personal; I’ve addressed many others, many other times in different threads (which is why I’ve had the pleasure of being called almost everything possible on SOL). This is my first time addressing you, and after the hoochie mama comment I’m not sure if ever I should do it again. Allah walaahi I actually laughed out loud on that one , we only ever hear of such a word on those cheap American talk shows, and although I’m not sure what exactly it means, if I was the type to take this net thing seriously, I think I’d be offended, but that’s ok cousin Rahima is as tough as nails. I think I was in a bad mood that day, but get the gist of the message dear old cousin, the way I see it is, the less cheerleaders for these warlords the less poison around. At the very least if you care about your tribe, these men are not the way to go. There are more productive avenues to take . OLOL, I aligned you with the Mogadishu warlords not based on tribe but because of your aversion for anything CY and co. In the case of a second civil war, the lines would be clearly drawn; on one side would be CY and co and on the other the Mogadishu warlords. You’ve chosen your side, and irrespective of what you may think of them normally, this is the side you selected. I still stand by what I said of were it to happen and CY was defeated, nothing would be solved. Back to square one, early 90s again and around we go again never to progress. Even if CY proved to be the worst leader any nation had ever seen and everyone were to agree he needs to be overthrown, i'd never trust the task in the hands of the warlords of Somalia. I sympathise with your views about certain supporters of the government making matters worse (and I’ve said so previously in this forum), but do as what most of us do, just ignore them -I don’t think I can give anymore sound advice. CY is but a man, these supporters are but mere men, Somalia will be around for a longer time to come. Inshallah as time moves on you will be able to restore the hope you once had, because there is probably nothing worse than to loose hope.

and if you have been to Xamar, you must have came across the so many conscious and generous individuals sacrificing all their time and energy to pro-actively change things from the grassroots. Exactly, I have seen and this is the exact reason why I abhor any sort of war and equally abhor those who are calling for it. These people who cry this slogan brother are the same people who do absolutely nothing but instigate hurdles for this good. For every good action taken, they create a hundred problems. Allow me to give you a small example. Whilst I was in Somalia as you might know there was a fierce battle waging in Southern Mudug. The same generous individuals who you speak of (who run all the hospitals, schools, assist the refugees, the poor etc) refused to take part, forget with their selves, they refused to pay funds. Guess what Caato and his henchmen then did? Tried to kidnap these same good decent hard-working men because they refused to hand over $100 to kill their Muslim brothers. Amazing isn’t it. I’ve always despised these sorts of people, but when you see it for yourself and you listen to their backward thinking, you can’t but help get emotional. When you see the number of people that require so much help yet these morons are blocking the good efforts, you can’t help but get emotional. Therefore, why should I or you or any other person who actually cares then support these imbeciles in any way? We should have standards brother and even in times of desperation they should be stuck to. CY as much as he is not my favourite person in the world, is our president. He was elected by the same fools who today oppose him. I’m beginning to agree with the argument that they elected him because they do not want a government, they want to continue their xaraam and having a government would most probably bring this to an end. Sure he isn’t my choice, or yours, or winds or HA, but we can’t do anything about it. I know it sounds almost too clichéd, but we must work for the greater good. I personally believe in having something first, anything, then fixing it. Going through a second civil war will undo all the good work thus far achieved in the South. Going into battle simply because one detests a particular individual and what he stands for is not a good enough reason. One needs to weigh up the pros and cons, even putting Islam aside, look at it from a logical point of view. Who do you think will suffer? Certainly not CY, Bossaso or Gaalkacyo will certainly not be effected rather the places you claim to love and have personal interests in will reap the consequences. What about the number of people that will undoubtedly die, the young children, the poor women, the innocent and most disheartening the good people of the community. Let’s just assume that a second civil did break out, CY was defeated, then what? Do you think that for one second these imbeciles have enough brains to reconcile? They had 14 freaking years brother, 14 and they achieved nothing, nutta. How can you then pin your hopes on them again? I’ll tell you what they’d do in such a situation, they’d elect a god-forsaken leader once again and in most probably a few short months turn on each other again like the cave men they are, and as wind stated go around in circles to be doomed forever. What did they achieve by overthrowing Siyaad Barre? Nothing! We had self-respect, we had a country, we had an education system, health system, we had all of that and I’m not defending his wrong actions, but they did not weigh up the options. At least it could be argued that Somaliland benefited somewhat, but what have the south benefited? Sometimes brother you need to put aside your personal feelings to achieve the goal- in the case of our country, a functioning (not necessarily a perfect) government not to eradicate clannism (this is going to take a very very long time, if ever). We need to give this government and any other attempts a chance, for the sake of Somalia.

Girls, you are not contradicting one another. You both agree that the problem lies with giving that child your surname and saying that it is your biological child. You also both agree that there is nothing wrong with taking in a child and treating him/her as if they were your own. You guys are both in essence saying the same thing, just in different ways .

^Almost there, but then I am brought back to sympathy by the image of the poor and defenceless who have no say and play no part in what happens.

Wind, I was just being specific in retrospect to the brothers I was addressing; it goes without say that it should be applied across the board. As for my passion, let's just say i have seen first hand the impacts of s-t-u-p-i-d tribalism (you'd think the mainstream form was disgusting enough). Too many horrors have my eyes seen and ears heard. OLOL, First, I am not cheerleading for any warlord Yes you are , or is Adeer Qanyare not a warlord? You are only one-eighth Somali and don’t belong to any tribe (so basically Soomaali ma tihid-and I don’t mean this as an offense), yet you speak of war in Somalia so freely :confused: ? I’m sure it is not only me who sees something wrong with this. Do you know what warfare causes? The consequences? You are Muslim right? Do you know what Islam says about such matters? You my brother are sitting back in your plush home in the good-old US of A filling your gut to the brim with all the delicacies available and then have the audacity to claim to be ready for war. Caajiib, tell that to the poor and destitute who will no doubt end up being the lone victims in all of this. I’m not sure if I should feel sorry for you or be angry for being a catalyst in our problems. I have to say, you are one strange character, full of hate to the point that it has affected your thinking. I can only but sympathise with what happened with your brother (as in all honesty I would not know how that feels), but does it have to impact you to the point of transgression? I was going to advise you to not allow your distaste of CY skew your thinking, but then you explained it nicely: I just do have such a passionate abhorrence for Yeey and his backward clannish policies and for that reason alone, I am willing to sacrifice my rationale. Hence I won’t waste my time. Just know that, adeer Qanyare is in it for his own, he doesn’t care about you or anyone else for that matter. He doesn’t care about Xamar or its inhabitants. He has done absolutely nothing to create any good in Mogadishu. Know that today you support him, tomorrow you fight by him and then next week he turns on you. That is the sort of relationship you will have with these fools. May you have a short union in the hope that Allah guides you away from this evil.

Zulfa, Sister I was not advocating for inaction or silence rather I was highlighting her intentions. It was obvious to me anyway. We can always try to counteract, but let’s not put it down to ignorance. This was calculating to say the least.

So boys how does it feel to be contributing to the disasters of back home? Proud of yourselves perhaps? Should we start burying Somalia now? Save us all from the gruesome images blood and warfare me thinks! OLOL & JB, You know what amazes me about the two of you, you boys don’t even have the half-decent common sense or foresight to understand, comprehend and see that these same men the two of you are cheerleading for are in essence your worst enemies before they are for the rest of Somalia. I can see that in an attempt to counter the views of some (which arguably are or are not biased) you are bordering on foolishness. Stop embarrassing yourselves and your clansmen. Your first enemy are the thugs who share a tribe with you. Deal with them, stop defending them, clean your own backyard and stop yapping for horror as if you can’t wait for it to happen. Now I know the two of you can’t accuse me of your tribalistic views, so see this more as truth coming your way. Here you are cheering on the likes of Caato, when the same i-d-i-o-t does absolutely nothing for the people he claims to be a hero for-walaahi it sickens me to see people defend these imbeciles. If you cared at all for the tribes you guys seem to be defending (forget about Somalis in general), you would not be writing the garbage you do here. Some support CY for all the wrong reasons, and as evil as he may be he has done something for his tribe. He has taken part in some sort of progression, I ask you then, what have your equivalents achieved so far? What has Caato achieved besides wreak havoc in Mudug and deal in drugs, what has Qanyare done besides impede the opening of the airport, what has Suddi done besides make some s-t-u-p-i-d comedic remarks every so often? What have they all done besides fight, fight, fight and impede any sorts of progression for their tribes? To put it simply, they are losers and any person who defends any of their actions (even in hindsight of attacks from others which could be perceived as attacking the whole tribe) are losers! Simple enough? At least if you are going to be tribalists, be smart ones at that, nothing worse than a s-t-u-p-i-d criminal wouldn’t you say? If the two of you even care for one second give your support to the men who are doing something, who do not kill, loot or cause havoc. Support the men who are building the schools, hospitals, homes in Mudug/Galgadud rather than the imbeciles who destroy them because God forbid the akhwaan built them. I’m sure the both of you know I went for a long trip back home and one thing became clear, the enemy is not the one you lot have created, they’re not from Puntland or Ethiopia, the real enemy for your tribes are sleeping in bed with you and screwing you around while you cry blindly the slogans of tribalism. If you want examples, I have so many, but I’ll leave it at that for now at least. All in all brothers, I may seem harsh, but really it irritates me to see people being fooled like this, especially when they achieve absolutely nothing. It’s khasaaro to defend these men.

Its you three who defend the occupation of private property solely for clan reasons. Really :rolleyes: ? When and more precisely where (quote dear, quote, be a man). I have never justified the occupation of private property, to do so would be to go against my Islamic beliefs. If there is a deficiency in your understanding (which there clearly is) then the fault lies with you, not I. I questioned the extent of the problem and challenged those who play tune to the “Xamar is a looted city†rhetoric. What you would love for us to believe (as it seems from your bringing up of this issue), is that over 50% of the people fled Xamar never to return and ALL of them have had their properties stolen :rolleyes: . Absurd dude! At least when I say few I am stating that it is the minority case-which is the bloody truth and case. And for someone to ask for proof, again it is only logic. Proof doesn’t have to be just written, but in no court in the world can you lay claim to anything and not provide some sort of proof of ownership. When Somalia is up on its feet and we have a functioning legal system, then this issue will no doubt be resolved, but one must not expect anything based on what they say. Also, I don’t defend things rotten in Mogadishu or anywhere else for that matter. My views on these are very clear (again your deficiency of understanding perhaps), all I detest is when people make it seem like a ghost city with no good. This is offensive to all the good hard working people of the city. Mogadishu condition must be improved, that includes addressing issues such as property rights, the removal of checkpoints, Police and so on. To ignore this situation is not doing Mogadishu or its inhabitants any justice. And I disagree with this how so? (it's a rhetorical question, i know it kills it, but i thought i might explain it before you waste your time replying to it) to make Jowhar temporary capital, to create a millitary presence across the country. To create a national army and police force in order to improve the security situation. This is a noble task which I support 100% So do most people, so cut the self-righteous attitude. I don’t even care where they make the temporary capital, nor what plans are written on paper (coz I’m sure they will generally be appealing). All I ask (as an average Somali) is that this government takes gradual steps to do as they have said-even if baby steps. So far, and I say this with great regret it seems to be heading down the same sad way of the last attempt and contrary to the beliefs of some, I don’t base this on the bias written/aired by the Somali media because I don’t read or listen to it, but rather what I know to be factual-our government is disunited, they have rightly or wrongly being involved in clan warfare and have yet to settle home. Our government has no unity, how can they develop a military presence to control the security and unite the Somali people, when they are clobbering each other and are disunited? It seems almost hypocritical of them wouldn’t you say. I don’t get pleasure out of being pessimistic, but I think we have a right to be cautious-so many promises, so many hopes yet thus far nothing. I realize early days yet, but I wouldn’t not be surprised if this time next year we have progressed almost nothing. And I haven’t lost my calm (or whatever you wanna call it). Trust me; you’ll know when I do ! The word which had Mobb_deep gasping like an old prudish woman is also synonymous with courage (usually seen as a characteristic of men), so don’t take it to heart. Anyway I’m sure you see the point I was making, stop acting so silly! Samurai, The Xamar speech-making is just boring and you are preaching to the converted. No one in their right mind would support any of these warlords, so what is your point? Looking at it from a different perspective, these walords are part of the government, YEP and all with significant positions. It now seems like it is a crime to speak your mind about CY or the government. We have opinions, we have a right to be cautious and if this doesn’t please you mate, then tough. The old days where the likes of you would clobber people with the stick every time they said things which were out of line (according to you) are long gone. I will say what I wish, for as long as I want because as a Somali citizen I have the right to expect the best from my government. If they are underperforming I have the damn right to say so. If you don’t like it tough! Swallow it dude, it ain’t gonna change . Ha i cunin ok . I can see you are in an angry mood.

^I personally don't believe the bias was a result of ignorance, but rather the motives were nothing more than pure intentional bias. Why? I saw that show and she chose to overlook all the negative aspects of every other culture but that of the middle east. At the very least if she had expressed the negatives of every other culture like she did of that in SA, then we could put it down to ignorance and lack of knowledge-but this was not the case. Basically regardless of whether or not what she aired was the truth; the woman was out to get SA (i.e. Islam) because of the inconsistencies in her reporting as she spoke of the world cultures-her motives thus became clear.

^ . I even know more about Somali accents than you .

^What venom :confused: ? I was very polite in that post (it's not my fault if people are sensitive) and anything which may seem unfriendly was said in jest and a joke. And please don’t give me the gabar ayaa tahay crap :mad: , like mannerisms are bound to the female gender (don’t start me). Anyway, don’t talk to me :rolleyes: ; I’m angry with you anyway. Don’t you have better things to do? Like perhaps denying our Somali women the right to the luxuries of life in Cairo? I cannot believe you, is that the extent of your xaasidnimo?

^JZK, very much appreciated .

Anything to stick it to the Americans gets a thumbs up from me .

My sister Rahima its wonderful when you writte Too bad I can’t say the same for you :rolleyes: , because even in discussions of sincerity and seriousness, you somehow manage to vomit your clannish mentality. Hmm I wonder, what do Juma, Xoogsade and I have in common? I mean why take out HA and wind . I don’t think I have ever said anything different to that of HA for example, yet you choose to divide based on what? BINGO! Shudh up :rolleyes: However dear, like I said how do you people expect things to change overnight? You don’t get it do you? My point was not that things were going to change overnight, if you had noticed I have said early days yet (I don’t even think five years is long enough), but there are achievements which should be seen at every interval of time, like relocation back to Somalia at this moment along with unification of this government. Sitting back and angelifying (yes I made it up) every little step the president takes is not doing him justice. Hard-line supporters of the president make things even worse; they turn this government into a tribal issue when they attack every progress or attempts by other Somalis (like you have done in another post) and this in turn causes those who were on the border to make a dramatic shift to the anti side (right? NO, but who cares, we should be trying to get people on board). They somehow cannot distinguish the warlords from a tribe, they bundle them in one and then expect the average folk of these tribes (who doesn’t necessarily see it from the perspective of it’s bigger than the man up top) to join the bandwagon of supporters (the PR campaign I was referring to). You people make it worse dear, you sit here all day long talking about what wonderful feats have thus far been achieved and overlook any negatives like that translates into being anti-government (that is the difference between you and those who believes that CY was the best candidate, like Baashi-he is objective). Open your eyes and see that supporters are just not like you who are blinded by everything pro-CY (I wouldn’t even say clan in your case, just an obsession with this particular man), there are those of us who do support for the right reasons and who if they do criticize do it with the best of intentions (If I was given the chance and could be guaranteed that my life would not be in danger I would express my thoughts to the president, prime minister and the whole of the government and believe you me aside from starting with praise in the beginning and ending with duca, the bulk of it would be constructive criticism). It may not mean much (since it’s only a hypothetical), but that is sincerity, not coming on SOL glorifying to the point of no-return like you are on the pay roll and dishing out BS at others because they tell you to keep it objective (because for the last bloody time, being objective is not being anti-government). You know i believe I’ve finally worked out your downfall. You live by: Love CY= love peace, prosperity, Somali nation etc. Don’t like CY= anti- peace, prosperity, Somali nation etc. Very narrow view. Let me open your eyes to the reality, one does not have to like CY the man to be pro-government. :eek: Shock, blasphemy you say? No dude, just reality! Many of your own clansmen and women detest the man and what he stands for. What say ye to them? Are they too clannists who are anti-government? But what do you guys belive in???????????? Puzzled. Is that not obvious, or are you viewing the issues through spectacles of pre-conceived qabiil BS which you seem to be harboring? If those are not the things which I believe in, then what is the point of calling myself a Muslim (unless of course you question that too)? Don’t make accusations General without backing them up. If you were man enough, you’d back yourself up. I keep re-iterating this and every time you ignore (not that I’m surprised :rolleyes: ). This time surprise me, take it up! I might be a woman who loves her pretty clothes and painting her nails every so often, but i swear it i've got more balls than you could possibly dream of . Ha xanaaqin ok, joke (remember my objective )

please can some 1 put them on e-bay, i would like to see them!! nothing wrong in watching... its clean entertainment!! It is, and especially when you're married. Shame on you Rudy :mad:

If we had some way of banning the men from reading (forget about replying) this forum, we would then discuss matters of importance! They make it the way it is In all fairness though, there are many sisters who do post topics which do not come under these two categories.

Saw the show also, disgusted but not surprised. The lady is full of contradictions and airs what will appeal to the general public. I gave up on this woman a long time ago. Don’t forget she is the same "caring humanistic" African woman, who gave away brand new cars to every person in the audience on her show instead of asking the manufacturer of those cars to make a considerable donation to those who need it most (like the poor children of Africa which her heart supposedly bleeds for :rolleyes: ). Often enough, she talks the talk but seldom walks the walk. Judge her lifestyle and then compare it to the lies she wants us to believe. Basically because of these discrepancies, I am not surprised. The other thing is, gaal soo ma aha? Why the surprise at the bias? Also i'm sure many remember the hijaab fiasco which showed her true colours.

Undoubtedly this report is biased, but for the topic I suppose it all depends on the reasons for the woman working. If you are working just to make money (and it is not needed), then I suppose it isn’t the best of reasons to not be home, but if one is working to make a difference in a field needed by the Ummah then it is in my opinion a credible reason. For example, there is no point for a Muslimah who is a doctor to spend the next 20 years staying home when the Ummah requires her services so badly-this in my opinion would equate to disservice. Working and having a functional family do not have to clash, both are possible and can be done well (my mother for example has). One just needs to be very time conscious and use it wisely. You need to swap this life for the life of arooso, buying dahab/daah/duruuc, watching soapies and chatting on the phone. I plan to work inshallah (perhaps not full-time the whole time) and raise upstanding children (high goals acknowledged, but if we don't aim high we'll be stuck in the slums). This can be done if one has a supportive husband and family network. I personally don't believe many Somali men have being blessed with this supportive character

What would this achieve and what would some like you, Juma, Rahima and even Wind say... "Oh what did we expect from Abdullahi Yusuf". General you my brother (and i hope you are not offended by this) are blinded by this obsession you have for CY and it is sadly you who is not seeing the reality here. Don’t think that patting the government on the back for every inaction they make is doing them any good. As an individual, he who is best to you is one who tells you of your shortcomings and gives constructive criticism. Often on this board, we all criticize one another (from my direction most often to get a comedic reaction from some who are over-emotional), but at the end of the day one needs to address the issues raised by that individual in a serious discussion rather than attacking their motives or feelings to our president. Don’t make it seem like it is a revelation when you point out that the likes of HA, Juma, Wind and I do not like the old man-shidh I don’t think many do aside from perhaps you -but we have all acknowledged boqol jeer (which you conveniently want to overlook) this is not about good old adeer, rather the Somali nation. When you make claims (and I do believe I have said this to you before) that one is anti-government in essence you are equating them to nothing but pure evil (at least that is how I see it). We all want this government to succeed and by pointing out their shortcomings I believe that we are doing it more of a service than the likes of you who would continue to praise them even into the pits of failure. Sometimes I wonder along what lines you reason. If I want something to succeed I take on a very critical approach, least of all for example the youth projects I often take on board. I will not accept half-hearted attempts; I expect the best of the best. Sure we need to praise every so often (to keep the morale up), but kicking them in the butt also is a great booster. I perform better when someone points out my downfalls rather then praising me day in day out even though I am performing badly. The other thing is, we have a right to our opinions and as Somalis expect the best of the best in light of the situation (which you have mentioned, and yes we know). Instead of running off to different countries all the time, why does not our president get home, make a base for himself (even if not Mogadishu for the time being), roll up his sleeves, get his head down and start working. So far, and I say this in all fairness, I have not seen anything. I have seen a bunch of ****** embarrass us on the world stage by clobbering each other like cave men (which is a reflection on the leader), our president proving his slave-master relationship with Ethiopia, the loss of unity between the government and really the best example of inaction. I realize you love to doubt our intentions, but regardless of what you think, there are those of us who are sincere, not swayed by tribal loyalties and really just want a functioning government so that we can return home and take our part in the construction of the homeland we love so much, hence when I see things heading towards this road I naturally get ticked off. All it takes is for this government to appeal to the general populace, provide them with basic necessities required (education, health, housing, sanitation etc) and play the PR card right (they need the code used by Ikhwaan-al-Muslimiin). The other issue is, this government needs to be impartial to all the tribal wars- for them to of have even had any involvement (right or wrong) in the Baidoa debacle was embarrassing and very bad publicity. They need to distance themselves from this. They need to make the people of Mogadishu feel like they are important to the equation and not distance them because of some bloodsucking warlords who don’t care about them anyway (which is why this government needs to take visible steps in the relocation to the capital). Mogadishu is not a joke, it is not a small town, it is the capital (with more inhabitants than all other cities and towns-win the PR was in Mogadishu and you’ve nipped it in the bag). All of these things (plus many more I’m sure others could add) will alleviate the problems and in no time I believe all will fall into place. I look at Beirut/Lebanon and I have hope! All it takes is for the government to address the important issues and create a sense of pride and unity in the people. Basically, patting the president’s ego (even though he most probably has no idea about your zealous loyalty) is not doing our country good. Sincerity is when one tells it like it is, say what is wrong in the hope that it shall be fixed. This is the litmus between the tribalists (who want this to fail regardless-as they did with C/qaasim and funnily enough many are the most zealous supporters of CY now or they did the same to C/qaasim) and those who care. Keep this in mind for the future.

Early days yet, so far sadly disappointing, but we wait.

Interesting topic! Sophist, Looking forward to your reply and please be as explanatory as possibly (for those of us who are challenged as far as this topic is concerned).

Rahima I wonder who would pay for that. A govt.’s first responsibility is to take care of its own. Get rid of culprits. Period Not the government, the Somali community collects money amongst themselves to pay for their ticket to get them out of the country and back home to Somalia. Amazingly, one of them was even a pedophile (he raped a young Muslim Eritrean boy which he admitted to himself) and tried to justify it with drunkenness. It’s sickening I know, but sadly it happens.

Good riddance!

The paradox in that being that we sent member of the Somali community that commit felonies back home, to escape the result of their crimes. So true walaahi! To hear such incidences makes my stomach churn. I know of at least four rapists who have being sent back home during their trial here in Melbourne. I always wonder, why do people even bother raising money for these criminals? To rape the women back home?

^We don't even agree on the fundamentals right? This topic is nothing.