^Just wonderful. Good to see a true Somali man.

Makes ya proud!

The health and well-being of our women is relevant me thinks.

“ So ask the people of knowledge if you know not.†[soorah an-Nahl (16): 43] Question : There is a woman who is unable to carry a pregnancy to full term. What is the ruling on taking an egg from her, fertilizing it with her husband’s sperm, then implanting it in the womb of another woman, whether that is in return for payment or not? Answer : Praise be to Allaah. Shaykh ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Abd al-Rahmaan al-Jibreen answered this question as follows: We say that this is something innovated and reprehensible. The scholars have not spoken of it previously and it is not narrated that any of the scholars or imams of this ummah permitted that, or that it crossed their minds, or that they were asked about any such thing, even though the means and the motive existed that may have called for such a thing. This is something that has come up recently, within the last few years, where the idea of renting wombs been made attractive (by the Shaytaan) to some people and they say there is nothing wrong with it and so on. Undoubtedly this is haraam, primarily because Allaah has commanded us to guard our chastity, as He says (interpretation of the meaning): “And those who guard their chastity (i.e. private parts, from illegal sexual acts) Except from their wives or (the slaves) that their right hands possess, for then, they are free from blame†[al-Mu’minoon 23:5-6] So Allaah has forbidden us to engage in sexual activity with anyone except our wives and female slaves, i.e., having intercourse with them (female slaves) on the basis of possession. Secondly, Allaah tells us that man is enjoined to protect his lineage and his children. Undoubtedly this womb-renting will lead to confusion of lineage and not knowing who the father or mother is. This confusion of lineage will lead to disputes between the original wife and the woman whose womb is rented, and it will not be known to whom the child belongs. Even if we say that he belongs to one of them, the matter still will not be certain. Hence we advise women to keep away from such things. Moreover, this undoubtedly requires looking at ‘awrahs and at the private parts which it is forbidden to see, and it also requires collecting sperm and extracting the eggs and placing them in other wombs. All of that is not allowed in sharee’ah, indeed it comes under prohibition mentioned in the aayah (interpretation of the meaning): “Tell the believing men to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts)†[al-Noor 24:30] What is meant is to protect them by covering them so that no one will see the ‘awrah of another. This is the way of Islam and we pay no attention to those who deviate and go against that, and permit this borrowing and this renting of wombs, the consequences of which will undoubtedly be disastrous. -- Renting wombs is one of the innovations of western civilization, which is a purely materialistic civilization which does not give any weight to moral values and principles. The issue is not things that may affect inherited characteristics or confuse lineage; that is not the point of the shar’i ruling. Whether that leads to any effect on inherited characteristics or not, whether that results in confusion of lineage or not, it does not matter, because the shar’i ruling forbidding this innovation is based on something else, which is that the womb is a part of a woman’s private parts and the private parts (i.e., sexual relations) are not permissible except through the shar’i contract whose conditions are fully met. So the womb is exclusively for the husband who is married to that woman according to a valid marriage contract, and no one else has any right to use it for an alien pregnancy. If the woman who rents out her womb is not married to that husband, then she is permitting her private parts and her womb to a man who is a stranger to her; she is not permissible for him and he is not permissible for her. Even if this is not full-scale zinaa (adultery), it is still definitely haraam because it is enabling a man who is a stranger to her (i.e., not married to her) to put his semen in her womb. Dr. ‘Abd al-‘Azeem al-Mat’ani, al-Azhaar University -- The foetus is nourished and is influenced by the womb and the environment that surrounds him. Bad habits on the part of the surrogate mother may lead to deformity of the foetus, such as smoking, drinking alcohol, etc. Then what if the doctors discover some physical deformity in the foetus before birth and try to treat that by means of surgical intervention? Will the surrogate mother allow that? Will she put her life at risk for the sake of a child who does not belong to her? Moreover, there are some women who become sick as a result of pregnancy, suffering such diseases as a sudden rise in the level of blood sugar, or a rise in blood pressure, or toxaemia, some of which may take the life of the pregnant woman and which require medical intervention to sacrifice the foetus in order to save the life of the pregnant woman. How would the surrogate mother and the original mother work this out? How are we to deal with the ethical, legal, social and psychological problems that result from that? Therefore we can reach only one conclusion, which is that the mother who carries the pregnancy can only be the original mother, the child should be attributed to the marriage bed, and that she should conceive, nourish her foetus and give birth to it. Saying that renting wombs is like hiring wet-nurses has no basis in truth, for a wet-nurse breastfeeds a child whose lineage is known, and she can stop breastfeeding him when she wants or when the original mother wants, if she feels that there is any danger. Moreover, in the relationship between a husband and wife there is no room for any third party, no matter who he or she is, not for renting a womb or for donating sperm or donating eggs. Because of such things innumerable problems have arisen in western societies. In Britain an original mother gave twenty thousand pounds to a surrogate mother in return for renting her womb for nine months. When that time was over, the surrogate mother demanded many times that amount from the original mother in exchange for giving up possession of the child. So if this door is opened it will bring us innumerable legal and social problems. Prof. Jamaal Abu’l-Suroor – Dean of Medicine, al-Azhaar Islam Q&A Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid (www.islam-qa.com)

lol Rahima you tell him. Show him more like it Looks like our words were enough

Their mentality is somewhat disappointing though Somewhat? Honey it’s qashin, not worth your time. You really should ditch dumarkan. They want you married for all the wrong reasons, to be in the same hole they so wish they could get out of- half of them are sad excuses for mothers often neglecting their children and placing their desires as I mentioned above the needs of their children. 15?16? honey add at least another 5 (in some cases 10) years and that is more like it, it’s the in thing these days and if anything they ruined their lives. They could still make something of themselves but they chose to pollute the minds of young women like yourself, when they teach you about useless things like tribe (which I can bet is in bad light), don’t encourage you to better yourself and just as bad indoctrinate you with backward thinking like light is more beautiful. Women, last time I tell ya. Before you turn out in the same sad sad state these women are, run, run as fast as you can go and never look back . When you are around qashin you’ll start smelling foul is ya know what I mean

Nomadic_Princess It’s all good . Who cares about Australia anyways? They're just a cheaper,knock-off version of the Brits!! Waryaa who asked you anyway :rolleyes: , mind your own business. This is our corner so please get out .

Oh, don't you worry about that. I alread am. Always have been, always will be. You sure about that. You do realize that you a black woman. Yes black! :eek: . Don't fall off your seat now, looks like that might come as a shock to you Also you should consider spending your time with thinking people, not the daah dirac and dahab type of women

no we getto know each other better have a chat exchange digits...etcetera etcetera luminous idea me reckon Brilliant :cool: , and whilst we are it (the whole intro thingie) perhaps we could conjure up ways to punish those taking a swipe at us . Somali version of Crocodile Dundee was bad :eek: , then Gediid just topped it all off. I’m all for brutal torture (Aussie style of course), whatta ya say ? I’m having visions already…

Bishop defends headscarf comments August 29, 2005 - 12:32PM Liberal backbencher Bronwyn Bishop has defended her push to ban Muslim girls from wearing headscarves at public schools, despite widespread condemnation from school groups, Muslim leaders and fellow politicians. Ms Bishop has in recent days backed the view of outspoken Liberal MP Sophie Panopoulos in calling for the ban, describing the wearing of the hijab as an iconic act of defiance. Ms Bishop, who is not calling for scarves to be banned in Islamic schools, said today she was not surprised the issue was provoking widespread community debate. "I think it is because a lot of people are thinking about it and I think it's time people stood up to be counted," Ms Bishop told ABC radio. "It has become the icon, the symbol of the clash of cultures, and it runs much deeper than a piece of cloth. "The fact of the matter is we've got people in our country who are advocating - and I'm talking about extremist Islamist leaders - the overturning of our laws which guarantee freedom." Ms Bishop said she had no problem with members of other faiths adorning themselves with religious symbols, such as Christians wearing a cross or Orthodox Jews a yarmulke. Advertisement Advertisement"I have no concerns about people who wear a cross or people who wear a skull-cap because I haven't heard any leaders of those communities stand up and say the very fabric of our society should be overturned," she said. Australian Secondary Principals Association president Ted Brierley said it was a non-issue among schools. "I'm not aware of any schools that are making this an issue," he said. "At the current time, schools are responsible for their uniform policies, within a statewide framework. "I discern no real cause from schools to change that situation and I find it a bit strange that we're elevating this issue in schools when the federal government is launching its values package which supports tolerance and things like that. "In the discussions I've had with school leaders, I think they see this as unhelpful." Australian Council of State School Organisations chief executive Terry Aulich questioned why such a ban would be introduced. Mr Aulich said a decision last year by the French parliament to outlaw the wearing of Islamic headscarves in state schools had merely forced Muslim communities to look within. "I think the French did the most ****** thing when they banned headscarves because their public schools had been very, very inclusive," he said. "Now people are going off into little enclaves, setting up their own little religious schools or ethnic schools. "We're very much in favour of having a public school system which welcomes everybody rather than driving them into those enclaves." Education Minister Brendan Nelson yesterday reiterated his position of supporting the right of students to wear headscarves, provided this falls within each school's uniforms policy. Education ministers in both NSW and South Australia have today voiced their opposition to Muslim girls being banned from wearing headscarves to public schools. Federal opposition legal affairs spokeswoman Nicola Roxon today echoed the thoughts expressed by Muslim representatives, who say the debate shows a lack of cultural understanding. "I don't think that you can see what people wear as an act of defiance," Ms Roxon told the Nine Network. "This is actually a cultural and religious piece of clothing ... and I don't really think that either Sophie or Bronwyn understand anything about the multicultural community that we live in." http://theage.com.au/news/national/bishop-defends-headscarf-comments/2005/08/29/1125167579957.html

Aside from the point of the reply not been directed at you , I think you’ve missed the crux of our disagreement. That point of the discussion was not to question the greatness of the WA educational system (for i'm sure it is good); rather it was the point on comparing it to the Victorian educational system. Having said that, once again most of what you have stated is opinion based, the teachers hold opinions (I’m sure we could find another camp of educators with differing opinions hence it matters not), newspapers hold varying opinions and therefore we could once again get differing opinions and without the backup of research which has made the comparison we really have no point in discussing facts-it remains just as opinion. Just a small example, and I bring this one up because it doesn’t involve this discussion per se but rather highlights my point on most of it been opinion based: Entry into ECU the least prestigious university in WA is harder than getting into interstate universities. eg Uni of Syd In which fields? I know for a fact that for example to get into medicine at the university of Sydney is far far harder than it is in the University of Western Australia (Uni of Sydney required a GPA of about 6.2 and GAMSAT score of 62, uni of western Australia you can get in with a 5.8 GPA and GAMSAT of about 58), let alone any others. I also know for a fact that the same can be said for engineering, business and most of the sciences. How do I know this? Compare the marks required . Marks are an indication of competition-the more competitive the course the higher the mark. How do you then reconcile what that newspaper article and the marks which equate to fact? Once again: Perth has only 4 major public universities. UWA (the most prestigious), Curtin, Murdoch, ECU these universities do not offer enough places when compared to the number of students applying. Several thousand miss out on a place each year. The same can be said for every state and territory in Australia, even the Northern Territory. There are always many more applicants than places available; it is not something exclusive to the West Australian tertiary system. If memory serves me correctly Politicians in WA were complaining about federal government initiative which would mean one uniform education system (instead of the current VCE, TEE, HSC etc). These politicians and others (curriculum council) argued it would bring down education standards in WA to bring it in line with those of other states. In particular NSW whose education system was blasted in Parliament. I recall a very amusing parliamentary debate which was speaking of the Uni of Newcastle in particular (but thats a seperate issue) Ask the politicians of South Australia and the same will be said-it is called politics. We hear the same dreaded nonsense from our politicians in Victoria. Now for facts, check out: http://www.australian-universities.com/rankings.php 2004 Times Higher Education Supplement Australian Rankings This list shows the international ranking of Australian universities that have been included in the top 100 universities as determined by the Times Higher Education Supplement: 16 Australian National University 22 University of Melbourne 33 Monash University 36 University of New South Wales 40 University of Sydney 49 University of Queensland Both the University of Melbourne and Monash are in Victoria. No university in Western Australia even made the top 100. Even the University of Sydney (which you mentioned) is ranked number 40, clearly much better than any university in Western Australia let alone the least prestigious. Australian top universities Another way of looking at the Australian university ratings is to examine some of the groupings that have formed since the removal of the government controlled grouping system. The most important of these is the 'Group of Eight' which consists of all the previous 'Group 1' Universities (the highest ranking) along with a couple of others that have improved their performance and quality over recent years. The group of eight is regarded as the group of top Australian universities and each of these universities is able to attract resources, students and personnel because of this reputation. The group of eight consists of (not in ranking order): The University of Adelaide The Australian National University The University of Melbourne Monash University The University of New South Wales The University of Queensland The University of Sydney The University of Western Australia Victoria along with NSW are the only two states with two of the top 8 universities in Australia. And we've already established that Melbourne Uni and Monash rank better than those in NSW. Finally just food for thought, think of which state has the most private schools in simple numbers and as comparison of per capita . Also have a think about the “sorts†people, which reside in all the states. How are Victorians seen generally, West Australians, Sydney siders etc- this is not fact but it is a representation of the sorts of professionals and hence is a direct reflection of their educational backgrounds.

The in laws issue is solved in a few ways: 1.Always maintain a sense of extreme xishood for then there are borders which neither will cross. 2.Treat them as you would want for your husband to treat your family, with respect and dignity. 3.Never live too close, same suburb is a no, walking distance is a no no, same house is murderous. 4.Limit intermingling to a healthy amount, hadii too much la is dhex galo waa la is qabsan. I never understood girls who are everywhere with the mother/sister in-laws. Do they not learn from other peoples mistakes? 5.All of the above applies to the average family of in-laws. More lenient for friendlier families and far more strict for in-laws from hell.

Allah i saw it yesterday evening of channel 7. Normally I’m not a big fan of such documentaries, but with this one i was literally glued to the television. I actually screamed when that male lion got hold of the cub-on the verge of crying when it died. So amazing walaahi, yes extremely sad .

If u r an aussie and you want to meet...shoot some words toward me...we are better group than those yankees and poms.. I must agree with the later part, in no way can our class and sophistication be matched by the yanks and poms, laakiin dear Zu, what would the three of us do? Twaddle our fingers at Tibas or Waamo? The other thing is, what is the point anyhow? I see you and the other aussie member every weekend as I go to get my paper at the local milk bar! No really i'm not joking, i saw you just last week.

I don't see the problem in wanting the best for your son. Cajiib walaahi. What sort of warped thinking is that delta? This is getting worse by the post-I'm sitting here at the edges of disbelief. Since when did light skin equate to best? Anyway, like I said, not all mothers are so shallow, to be attributed to such thinking is meel ka dhac Lastly, bit of advice-be proud of your colour

^True that, but the way i see it, just because one carries an Australian Passport or American, does not mean you are truly an Australian or an American-you are still an outsider, so why identify yourself with a label that many of the other holders do not truly acknowledge you as! You can be a citizen of say America, but until you have crossed the threshold of third generation you shall remain as a Somali-American, and this mind you is by definition. By public outlook so long as you carry those features, you’re Somali even after five or six generations. I'm sure that many of us are still asked till this day where we come from, and I’m sure they're not referring to Heidelberg or Braybrook, they're referring to country of origin and the fact that you've been here almost all your life or were born here matters not, the fact that you hold a citizenship matters not, and the fact that you have a through and through Australian accent matters not, coz you carry those distinguishable features.

quote: 4. Rahima i wll have to disagree on one point education standards in Perth are very advanced. It is even said that the high school standard in WA is the highest in the country. Thank you for correcting that. That is why i also disagreed with Amitia because i think the standard of schooling is high and harsh in perth and money wise. Opinion: a personal belief or judgment that is not founded on proof or certainty; "my opinion differs from yours"; "what are your thoughts on Haiti?" Fact: a statement or assertion of verified information about something that is the case or has happened; "he supported his argument with an impressive array of facts"

And don't tell me your mother doesn't you to get married to a beautiful light skinned girl. Every mother dreams for her son to marry a light skinned girl who is educated along with many other qualities. Not all mothers are shallow.

Somali citizen (hence African). My passport says Australian, but personally i don't feel "Australian", so Somali it definitely is. At the end of the day though, you can never truly be considered an "American" or "Australian" or "British†until you are third generation-and this is by definition not public outlook (which is far harsher). Bottom line, be proud of your Somali status.

There is nothing wrong with growing a beard and shortening one's trousers! When has that become an insult? As I was thinking!

^ lool, God no! I still love myself . I stil maintain you are a....... Now I’m curious, a what Mr. Brown? Are you taking a cheeky swipe at me young man?

Goonle, Of course only Allah knows what exactly happened, but often people with a mental illness have such delusions and paranoia- it is very common, like hallucinating that people are following them and are out to get them. Having said that though, it is possible it was happening, but I don’t see how his own relatives and friends would just dismiss such a thing were it true :confused: - they would of have seen some sort of evidence of it, no? Also it was said (and therefore I appreciate it cannot be taken as concrete fact) that his mental status was known to many in the Somali community even before the tragic incident- it is for this exact reason that many were so outraged. hes no psycho, Of course not, people with a mental illness are not psychos brother-it is the same as having a physical ailment and therefore should be treated as such, with the same seriousness and mindset. as a matter of fact he graduated with honors from university Mashallah, but many with a mental illness are generally what we would term successful individuals. Mental illness is not just for one group of people, it is an illness and does not discriminate based on education. Like I said only Allah knows, but trust me I’ve come across many people with a mental illness and walaahi you’d be amazed at how “normal†they seem to be. I was once in a hospital where in the particular waiting area I was sitting at there were (as we were told previously) many mentally ill patients waiting to see the psychiatrists, but also with them were nurses (who do not wear a uniform or identification tags-this is the Australian protocol for healthcare professionals in the mental health field). As I sat in a corner reading away some book, this man came and sat next to me. He struck up a conversation with me about Muslims, Islam and this so-called war on terrorism. I was so amazed and astonished by his knowledge base on Islam and the way he was able to see past the media barrage on anything Islam and Muslims. I was just as astonished by how articulate and well-spoken he was-it was obvious that he was a very educated man. Likewise, he was very well dressed and groomed-basically he seemed like a very well adjusted human being. I would never of have thought that he was one of the patients until he took out his hand to shake my hand and I refused and explained to him why. His response just blew me walaahi, it was “even if it is the hand of God†(till this day I remember it exactly). It was then it hit me he was a patient and then the nurse came to get him for his session. This patient as I later found out believed himself to be Jesus and he was sent to save the world from all evil. Moral of the story- you can never tell who is mentally ill . Thats the problem in our communities sometimes, in fear of involving themselves they just alienate people. Perhaps, but an equally problematic downfall in our community is our continuous denial of mental illness. Everything is either the jinn or the shaytaan or the person just has ‘buufis’ (often used so loosely) and therefore swept under the carpet. Our attitudes to this are kind of like the African American attitude to diabetes-just a little sugar problem.

No place like home me thinks. For me it has to be Somalia (Mogadishu and Afgooye areas to be more precise). Just magnificent.

^Are you sure there brother? If we are referring to the same brother, he, as according to his relatives and friends did have a mental illness and the police shot him for wielding some sort of weapon. Either way, the police received a lot of heat over the issue and the media resurrected the dilemma of the police continuously shooting the innocent. The issue (in the media and within the Somali community anyway) had nothing to do with this war on terror or terrorism. I could be wrong, but going by your narration looks like we are referring to the same person. Allahu aclum of course. On the Aussies though, it only applies to the good-for nothing leaders. Aussies in general are against the war in Iraq and aren’t fans of the Bush administration. They only re-elected that fool Howard because he along with Costello (Treasurer) has brought the country considerable economic success and really if anything they are selfish for wanting the lives they have become accustomed to.

knew what?...that lighter isn't necessary more beautiful....? That too, but more precisely something else. Let’s just say that I too am a Melbournian . I’m writting in riddles only to be deciphered by a fellow Melbournian who is clever enough .