Faarax Brown, I dont think comparing two topics[The contents if you must] side by side,consitutes as a complaint.But hey! Tell me horta, is nasty a negative description just in Australia? Last I knew for an individual to refer to a topic as nasty constituted as a dislike and to do so would be to complain (i.e. express their grievances). This simple line created all this[below] Downplay it as you like, but it’s true . What you said was right on the money. It highlights the attitude of our culture to the whole thing. Please go for a visit back home and see the negatives of our cultural spin on this practice and then tell me that the playa label doesn’t fit very nicely to almost all the Somali men. Libaan, C'mon sis, you don't have to throw these sweeping generalizations at anyone who mentions polygamy. Like I elaborated upon in the other thread, there's more than just ego involved when marrying another wife, at least for some of us. For the others who aren't concerned with the Islamic aspect of polygamy, they might as well just cheat instead of marrying another one because they're doing it for the wrong reasons. I’m sure there must be one man left with a good intention, but I have yet to meet him. I think I specified that I have not come across one, not that he did not exist. Anyway it still doesn’t explain why you got your knickers in a knot, it is true. Everything that I’m saying is the truth, Somali men whether they are polygamists or not are generally not very good at taking responsibility. On the polygamy issue it seems to become even more apparent. You can’t deny that can you? And before you jump to the same ending again, I am not referring to you personally, just in general terms. The sports section and political section should be combined and named the "Men's Dungeon" Xiin, Muchos Gracias, if only everyone would get it

Ducaqabe, I never expressed any dislike of any topic discussed in women’s forum. Really because I thought by calling the topic nasty you are expressing a dislike. To make a comparison of nastiness, one is referring to both as nasty just in varying degrees. I believe it was you that was making waves about a valid issue raised by men though it involves women. Once again you missed the tone of my original post. Xiin understood very well. That said who says that the topic of tampons is horrible? Like I said women’s forum and it is an issue relevant to us. And please let’s not get overly sensitive and cry foul about men supposedly not being allowed to partake or whatever-that was not mentioned. I doubt if every one of them feels or holds the same view of polygamy as you. If it bothers you that much, plead with Allah. And please do me a favor and remind me next time to run by you before I post any thing in the women’s corner. What I find most amusing is how you are misrepresenting (I wonder if purposefully) my point. I have no qualms with polygyny itself, just as it applies to my life personally and the way it is misused. Anyway this is beyond ridiculous, plead with Allah he says. You know I don’t very much like discussing issues with individuals who seem hell bent on twisting things so I think we should leave that before it rears an ugly head. And one last thing, tell me more about the Islamic teachings you've mentioned that supports staying with one wife is better than having more than one. Allah's statement, [مَثْنَى ÙˆÙŽØ«Ùلَـثَ وَرÙبَاعَ] (two or three, or four), means, marry as many women as you like, other than the orphan girls, two, three or four. We should mention that Allah's statement in another Ayah, [جَاعÙل٠الْمَلَـئÙكَة٠رÙسÙلاً Ø£ÙوْلÙÙ‰ أَجْنÙحَة٠مَّثْنَى ÙˆÙŽØ«Ùلَـثَ وَرÙبَـعَ] (Who made the angels messengers with wings, - two or three or four) [35:1], does not mean that other angels do not have more than four wings, as there are proofs that some angels do have more wings. Yet, men are prohibited from marrying more than four wives, as the Ayah decrees, since the Ayah specifies what men are allowed of wives, as Ibn `Abbas and the majority of scholars stated. If it were allowed for them to have more than four wives, the Ayah would have mentioned it. Imam Ahmad recorded that Salim said that his father said that Ghilan bin Salamah Ath-Thaqafi had ten wives when he became Muslim, and the Prophet said to him, "Choose any four of them (and divorce the rest).'' During the reign of `Umar, Ghilan divorced his remaining wives and divided his money between his children. When `Umar heard news of this, he said to Ghilan, "I think that the devil has conveyed to your heart the news of your imminent death, from what the devil hears during his eavesdropping. It may as well be that you will not remain alive but for a little longer. By Allah! You will take back your wives and your money, or I will take possession of this all and will order that your grave be stoned as is the case with the grave of Abu Righal (from Thamud, who was saved from their fate because he was in the Sacred Area. But, when he left it, he was tormented like they were).'' Ash-Shafi`i, At-Tirmidhi, Ibn Majah, Ad-Daraqutni and Al-Bayhaqi collected this Hadith up to the Prophet's statement, "Choose any four of them.'' Only Ahmad collected the full version of this Hadith. Therefore, had it been allowed for men to marry more than four women at the same time, the Prophet would have allowed Ghilan to keep more than four of his wives since they all embraced Islam with him. When the Prophet commanded him to keep just four of them and divorce the rest, this indicated that men are not allowed to keep more than four wives at a time under any circumstances. If this is the case concerning those who already had more than four wives upon embracing Islam, then this ruling applies even more so to marrying more than four. Allah's statement, [ÙÙŽØ¥Ùنْ Ø®ÙÙْتÙمْ أَلاَّ تَعْدÙÙ„Ùواْ ÙÙŽÙˆÙŽØ­Ùدَةً أَوْ مَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَـنÙÙƒÙمْ] (But if you fear that you will not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one or what your right hands possess.) The Ayah commands, if you fear that you will not be able to do justice between your wives by marrying more than one, then marry only one wife, or satisfy yourself with only female captives, for it is not obligatory to treat them equally, rather it is recommended. So if one does so, that is good, and if not, there is no harm on him. In another Ayah, Allah said, [ÙˆÙŽÙ„ÙŽÙ† تَسْتَطÙيعÙواْ Ø£ÙŽÙ† تَعْدÙÙ„Ùواْ بَيْنَ النّÙسَآء٠وَلَوْ حَرَصْتÙمْ] (You will never be able to do perfect justice between wives even if it is your ardent desire) [4:129]. Allah said, [ذلÙÙƒÙŽ أَدْنَى أَلاَّ تَعÙولÙواْ] (That is nearer to prevent you from Ta`ulu), meaning, from doing injustice. Ibn Abi Hatim, Ibn Marduwyah and Abu Hatim Ibn Hibban, in his Sahih, recorded that `A'ishah said that, the Prophet said that the Ayah, [ذلÙÙƒÙŽ أَدْنَى أَلاَّ تَعÙولÙواْ] (That is nearer to prevent you from Ta`ulu), means, from doing injustice. However, Ibn Abi Hatim said that his father said that this Hadith to the Prophet is a mistake, for it should be attributed to `A'ishah not the Prophet . Ibn Abi Hatim reported from Ibn `Abbas, `A'ishah, Mujahid, `Ikrimah, Al-Hasan, Abu Malik, Abu Razin, An-Nakha`i, Ash-Sha`bi, Ad-Dahhak, `Ata' Al-Khurasani, Qatadah, As-Suddi and Muqatil bin Hayyan that Ta`ulu means to deviate [from justice]. http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=4&tid=10435

quote: This is a women’s forum and we will discuss matters of concern to us, whether tampons or butt firming exercises. If you don’t like it then don’t open the thread brother- quiet simple really So topics in this section have to be started solely by women? Not exactly sure how you came to conclude that from what I wrote :confused: . All I was saying was that this is technically a forum for women so that we can discuss matters of importance to us. For a man to complain about the content (especially as they are relevant issues) is really unnecessary and irrelevant. The topic is not meant for him, so if he finds it offensive then don’t open it because it was not meant for you to begin with. The above topic by Xiin involved women. It contained Loyalty,discipline iyo characteristics of a polygamist[What we call playas in modern faraxland,Tihihi]. You know it might actually be beneficial to some xalimos who do not mind Polygamy. So dont shoot it down yet,just becoz its not appealing to wonderful Rahima:) Thank-you for proving my point. Nowadays, Somali polygamists are basically seen as playas rather then caring Muslim men who want to dissolve the dilemma facing the many husbandless Muslimahs :rolleyes: . You said it not I, playas many are.It’s the attitude of our culture to the whole practice of polygyny, which irritates me. Our culture and in particular our men have warped it into the negative. I remember once watching a muxaadara of Sh. Cumar Farooq and he was basically telling the men that to have just one wife meant that they weren’t real men (when Islam teaches that to stay with one is actually better) and that the man with more wives than you was better. Ever since then, anything to do with women, Sh. Cumar Farooq is branded with red in my books. Sh. Cabdicaziiz Xassan Yacquub and Baqolsoon (Rahimuallaj) are my favourites. Anyways, I still think that there should be a faraxland on SOL if for any reason then so that we xaliimas can have a break from all of this.

That loyalty and obedience are prerequisite for successful and healthy marriage is no point of moot, I assert, and hence not the source of your discontent. It is the manly style and the seemingly colorful manner by which it was delivered that had you disgorge! It would’ve been much better had I indicated that faithfulness is a two way street. Fair? I think I like you Mr. Xiin . Love how you nailed the reason for my discontent. Now that that has been settled I shall get over my grievance of your part, but I still call for a men’s forum. Imagine the freedom Xiin, the endless possibilities of topics you could all wallow in without disturbance. Of course we too have benefits from it, but that matters not at the moment. What matters is that you men also have your rights. I say we start the petition; we’ll hang some curtains, lay a few carpets and build a small kitchen for the ever wonderful Somali shaah. Soon enough it will be as cosy as our forum . Rahima: calm down sis. This ain’t worst than Tampon User and Butt Firm Exercise. The latter is nastier than Xabad Sowdaa and polygamy. I think you missed the tone of my post , but oh well. This is a women’s forum and we will discuss matters of concern to us, whether tampons or butt firming exercises. If you don’t like it then don’t open the thread brother- quiet simple really.

^ Don't get mad, get even. Instead of feeling left out of this testosterone induced hysteria, politely tell them most of you couldn't handle a single one of us, let alone four. Also politely encourage them to "keep it real" and do a good job with the one who took you in, as a charity to begin with, and let go of these wet dream fantasies of a school boy. That'll do it! Tried that, most Faarax’s are too thick to get it :rolleyes: . I’ve given up. Now i suggest that they express those views somewhere where I will never ever venture inshallah. If I hazard a guess, good Rahima, you must’ve not liked what we wrote (I wrote!)! Good guess. This whole post sickens me and although it was meant to be lighthearted I don’t exactly find a training manual for women very amusing. And you Mr. Xiin make it all worse, you write (which promted by response mind you): The education tip is by far the most useful one. If you succeed instilling that loyalty and obedience thing in her heart, man you’re the winner I say Instil that loyalty and obedience in her heart he says….blah blah blah. Ukh, I’m gonna puke :rolleyes: . Man I feel like starting a petition for you men to have your own forum for the sake of my mental state. I can’t take this useless barrage of male ego driven posts :mad: .

There should be a men’s forum or sports should be changed to men's affairs.

Lool , I cannot believe that you cannot write w.a.c.a.l .aykum salaam

But you also have to realize that jumping to conclusions such as this It’s not jumping to a conclusion, it is truth concluded after a very long time . is dangerous, as well. You don't know me. I'm just some guy you know only because you're arguing with him over the internet. You don't know my intentions. Once again Libaan, to settle this (you don’t seem to be getting me), at times I refer to you specifically (hence either the usage of Liban or you), other times Somali men in general (hence Somali men…). With the quote: Bravo, someone give the brother a worthy clap please. So Somali men marry for the sake of the poor and destitute sisters [big Grin] . If ever there were a time to laugh this would certainly be it. Ina adeer let’s cut the crap, Somali men when marrying a second wife are thinking with a particular part of anatomy and not for the good of the Ummah. I have yet to come across a man who married another wife for the sake of the Ummah. I speak generally (did you notice Libaan or you anywhere? ) and it is true. If Somali men were marrying for the right reasons so many women would not be wronged everyday by so many Farax’s. Once again I did not refer to you specifically. But do you really? Heck yeah, it’s not like I’m married to you or any of my relatives, why should I care? So long as your wife is happy with it and so long as aad xumeyn gabar Muslim ah, me is fine . I also realize that I am taking a dangerous step in mentioning disbelief, and for that I sincerely apologize. Bingo, you finally got the sticking point! I don’t mean to be at your tail the whole time, but it was on the point of disbelief that I was not very fond of. Apology accepted and in future please be careful about such conclusions. *****aykum salaam wr wb

Rahima told you to concede that you made a mistake? Then that's a bit heavy-handed of her, IMO. We are all entitled to our opinions of course, but for someone such as Nur irrespective of whether or not the brother likes it; he has a greater responsibility in that he basically holds the beacon of Islam in this forum. One such as Nur cannot be so involved in the dacwa (which mind you is extremely appreciated) and yet at the same time be involved in the propagation or even possible calling for of something against Islam (e.g. FGM-even though it was just a theory). Opinions can either be backed up or retracted as mistakes (i.e. they were based on misgivings or camel milk). Since there was no way on this God’s green earth that Nur could possibly back up that opinion with proofs from our diin, he in my opinion had no choice but to opt for the latter of the two options. To continue to try to justify that opinion, Nur would be causing more then just impacting negatively on his screen character (not that that matters much). He would sadly be impacting negatively on his e-nuri enterprise and therefore his e-dacwa efforts that many of us have benefited from over the years. We all make mistakes including Nur. By admitting this mistake Nur has won over his ego and opted to save the e-dacwa. In my opinion it says a lot about a person that he/she is readily willing to admit their mistakes. Some amongst us seem to be scratching at every itch to see the negative instead of giving our brother the benefit of the doubt. I was just giving advice, not trying to ram it down his throat- I’m glad that Nur has taken it and for me the event never happened. Again we all make mistakes, it seems that some amongst us have forgotten that.

How the Singaporeans handled this case deserves applause, they didn't give into the Australian cocky demands as if they were the "regional police" that Mahatir Mohamed talked about. Suldaanka this is not about politics, there is a human life at stake here. Don’t get me wrong, I too am often disgusted by the Aussie cockiness in this region but it still doesn’t change the fact that some young man who made a silly mistake is going to have to pay with his life. And all for what? So that they can stick it to the arrogant Australians? So that they can continue to uphold an inhumane law? You’re right though, there are many ****** laws that need changing, but this is the one in the forefront at the moment. This is what happens when the law of The Maker is not followed.

Not once did I say or even think you must accept that your (future or current) husband wants more than one wife. Not in those words, but again you did write (and i'll continue quoting in the hope you see the light of how wrong a statement it is): And while they're at it, why not blame men for something Allah SWT has made halal for us, polygamy! If you guys don't agree with Allah SWT and His messenger SCW, there are other religions. Which is even worse then telling us that we must accept that our husbands marry women after us. You are basically telling us to either accept it for ourselves or to find another religion. But what you and others in this thread are implying is that the judgement of Allah SWT is unfair towards women because we can marry up to 4 wives, That’s nice. How is that you have come to such a deduction? Really interested to know considering that I have yet to write or ‘imply’ that I thought it was unfair (please do quote my implying). There are discussions Libaan and it may be so that we disagree, but we shouldn’t be branding each other with the kafir status. For one to state or imply that a ruling of the almighty is unfair (which is what you have accused me of doing) is to leave the fold of Islam. I seek refuge in Allah from that and have never implied anything of sort. In future you should be more cautious instead of throwing around dangerous accusations. I am going by what you have written. When addressing you or your views in particular I have quoted you as stated and have not tried to make an absurd deduction based on a need to make the case. Basically, what I mean is that if you don't like the whole polygamy concept, you don't have to jump down my throat because I may or may not take advantage of something that Allah SWT has given me the right to do. Do you honestly not see the contradiction in your words? Here you are preaching about taking advantage of that which Allah has given you the right to do and by the same token turn around with this double face of calling us sisters who also do the same basically as being in danger of kufr (i.e. that we supposedly have implied that the ruling is unfair) and to not fall victim to the brainwashing of the gaalo (like we are bunch of uneducated Islam-lacking women). Liban, do as you wish but cut this nonsense of demonizing sisters who opt for a choice which would quell this option (it is not Fard you know).

^Second that Bravo JB, next we wait for Mashallah .

^It’s not that I believe that the Singaporean justice system is being extra hard on Mr. Nguyen, but rather that the whole stinking law needs to be changed.

What am I denying you? The wonderful thing is that only Allah can deny , but as i said you are are blameworthy for trying to deny us. Proof: And while they're at it, why not blame men for something Allah SWT has made halal for us, polygamy! If you guys don't agree with Allah SWT and His messenger SCW, there are other religions. I do believe that it was you who wrote that. So basically we either accept to be part of a polygamous marriage or find ourselves another religion because we are going against Islam :rolleyes: . What do you make of that reasoning Libaan? Do i as a sister who holds this view not have a right to be offended? but don't fall into the same "hole" as the kufaar women and adopt their attitude about it. Again rich, because I practice my God-given right I am all of a sudden in dire need of advice about not falling victim to the kufaar mentality :rolleyes: . No problem. I won't cry. I'm just saying I won't sign such a contract, and I got a wife, whether I'm a useless Farax or not(which I'm not, by the way ) Then fine don’t sign it, it is your right. You see, unlike you and a whole bunch of the other Faarax’s I respect your choice. Are you man enough to respect ours? Also, if you read carefully libaan you’d notice that I was not calling you useless . Ladies, KNOWLEGE IS POWER. Power to the women! *raises fist* We are our worst enemy Femme.

And while they're at it, why not blame men for something Allah SWT has made halal for us, polygamy! If you guys don't agree with Allah SWT and His messenger SCW, there are other religions. We don't need people who do nothing but complain. Absolutely rich, just wonderful. What religion is that brother? Last I recall I have the right and that does not mean that I am going against what Allah SWT and His messenger SCW have stated. You see Allah and His messenger have given me the choice to not want that, so to work by your thinking you are in actuality disagreeing with what Allah and His messenger have stated. Some men these days :rolleyes: . See, one major problem with us is that we are only thinking in terms of the man's sexual satisfaction. But has anyone ever bothered to stop and think that there may be other reasons for Allah SWT to allow polygamy? Probably not, so why don't we stop and think about it right now? In Islam, women are not encouraged to work for a living. They are encouraged to marry and raise a family and run the household. So in that case, they would need to marry someone and in the absence of a single man, they could marry a man who has a wife already. Somalia is a great example for this scenario because 15 years of civil war has most definitely taken its toll on the male population, either killing many of them outright, or leaving many wounded, disabled, and lame. The men that are left would most likely be married. So what's a lonely Xaliimo to do? Simple. So you women should think about this and push your jealousy into the background(Even Rasulullah SCW's wives were jealous of each other, so I don't expect any women to get rid of their jealousy all together). You never know when you may be in a threatening situation like most women in Somalia are right now. Bravo, someone give the brother a worthy clap please. So Somali men marry for the sake of the poor and destitute sisters . If ever there were a time to laugh this would certainly be it. Ina adeer let’s cut the crap, Somali men when marrying a second wife are thinking with a particular part of anatomy and not for the good of the Ummah. I have yet to come across a man who married another wife for the sake of the Ummah. I am so bored of this topic, but I am equally disgusted with all these Faraxs who have nothing better to do but consume their time with trying to deny us our rights, belittling our feelings and trying to play with cards they don’t have and most probably will never have. Protest as you all so wish, but it doesn’t change a thing. We have rights, we will use them and inshallah will be successful in all our efforts so that we will never need to rely on a man. I feel for the sisters back home, they marry useless Faaraxs oona reer dhaqi Karin because they have little other choices. But those of us with an education will inshallah not fall into the same hole. Either way, cry as you will boys it doesn't change a thing. You men are the ones who do the chasing right, either accept the condition or be on your merry ways. Believe you me there aren't a shortage of men who are willing to sign the dotted line.

No contract reduces the betreyal. This topic has been done to death, but just to clarify, the contract is not to reduce the betrayal. For a man who does not fear God or has little respect for your feelings, a piece of paper as he sees it is most certainly no deterrent, rather this contract in the sight of Allah exonerates you of blame should he so wish to break it (by marrying another woman). Asking for a divorce is not something we women should do at the drop of a hat, but by breaking the contract he has caused the divorce not you. Early thinking women , cover your back in this world and in the akhira-put all the blame on him whilst you can .

Damn right and don't you ever forget again

Simply_I, Falling in love b4 marriage is haraam, in fact we call it love but its infatuation and lust. That’s not true brother/sister. Love before marriage is NOT xaraam, it is a natural feeling and does occur. What is Xaraam however is if one acts in a xaraam manner because of that love. Please read the following paragraph paying particular attention to the bold. Though love is something nice, and it is recommended for a man to marry a woman whom he loves, because the Prophet, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, said: “There is nothing better for two who love each other than marriage.†(Sahih Al-Jami`, 5200) However, this love should not be overwhelming and cause a person to forget other characteristics which he should look for in the person he wants to marry. The most important characteristic is religious commitment. The Prophet, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, says: “A woman may be married for four things: her wealth, her lineage, her beauty and her commitment to religion. Choose the one who is religious, may your hands be rubbed with dust [i.e., may you prosper]!†(Agreed-upon Hadith). http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503544448 BTW, deeming something xaraam when it is not is very dangerous walaal. In future be very careful

Some of the exchanges here are so childish and almost laughable. Nur will inshallah come back in time and he shall inshallah retract what he stated (for I cannot see how any person with proper knowledge of the diin could defend that topic), but until then let’s all get over this childishness and be patient. If we were all held on our every mistake, none of us would escape the barrage. The important thing is what we do once we have erred, Nur should be allowed the opportunity to make a choice.

Not exactly sure how I missed this thread, but just three points: 1.No need to attack without a just cause and not giving an individual the opportunity to respond. 2.Nur needs to revisit that thread (FGM vs Abortion) and please explain. I too am a subscriber (or a fan) and would really like a thorough explanation, preferably beginning with I made a mistake. To say that I’m still traumatized by that suggestion would be an understatement. 3.Until Nur has had a chance to respond we should all be respectful enough and mature enough to curb some of the ugliness flying around. Let us keep in mind all that Nur has done for e-dacwa and for all that he has taught many of us over the years .

So here it is, I was wondering where this thread went. You got thrashed at that too at the ashes didn't ya? Enjoy it while it lasts for history will repeat itself no doubt, one win for the poms and many many sorrows after. Rahima you seem very passionate supporting Aussie team, all I can say is GOOD LUCK. Damn right I am , even if I don’t know all the rules of the sport (like rugby and cricket) I still barrack for Australia. It must be the water or something, I can’t help myself. I think that the only way I’d shift loyalties is if Somalia made it on the world stage.

Smith or Howard would of have guaranteed more protest from both the Australian government and the people, but for the reason that it is Nguyen (even though he was born and raised in Australia) it matters not and all sleep whilst the days roll on to D-day for this young man. This is disgusting and I truly do feel sorry for him. People make mistakes, drugs is certainly not a reason to end someone’s life.

Oh man when Viduka missed that penalty, the crowd were, lets just say not pleased. I was so close to chucking the remote at the television myself :mad: . I never like him anyway, so cocky and you can tell for that was a lame attempt- I could of have even done better . Frank who ... its all about Guus control now.. Guus Hiddink for PM, what do you say? You ungreateful so and so . Frank Farina did all the hard work and all of sudden he is swept under the rug whilst this Guus reaps all the glory- bloody unfair if you ask me.

can't wait to see them eliminated in the first round on a direct kick foul due to a 'hand ball'. As for Australia, They are just making up the numbers!! That country lacks football talents...expecting the likes of Viduka to win the World Cup, that is sad! Bloody haters :mad: . Who cares if they get eliminated even in the first round, damn it they made it to the world cup - that is an amazing feat for a country where soccer takes a backbench almost invisible. Anyway, stop the yapping boys , don’t ruin the moment, let the Aussies soak it up. Rokko, I can’t believe you actually went to Fed square- mate you sure are a fanatic. I only watched it towards the end in complete suspense and boy was I screaming when they made it (I amazed myself ). Then I thought of Johnny Warren, poor bloke, worked his whole life to see this moment and he died just before it. BTW did you notice that there was no mention of Frank Farina ?

Whilst I’m not a big fan of sport, this is most definitely a highlight worth posting. AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE OI OI OI ____________________________________________ Victorious Socceroos through to World Cup Wednesday Nov 16 22:57 AEST Australia has qualified for next year's soccer World Cup in Germany after beating Uruguay 4-2 on penalties in a heart-stopping qualifying match at Sydney's Telstra Stadium. Australia was ahead 1-0 after the end of regulation time thanks to a Marco Bresciano goal in the first half. But the qualifying match remained all square after Australia lost the first