Bishaaro advice honey: nin ku shukaansanayo awoowe ha ugu wicin . I’ve noticed that good old xiin is very fond you, don’t crush the aspiration with awoowe or the like if you know what I mean . Xiin- peace my brother, peace, i'm going back under my rock.

^ These guys are certainly a short cut to heaven. No doubt about it. And I wouldn't bother hiring anyone saaxib. I'd do it myself. Hadaynaa dadka nafta ka qaadin naxariistii iyo karaamadii ayay u diideen. Ilaahay meel baas ka tuur. Once upon a time I too was convinced that annihilating them would serve our problems, but since our people are sick with this mentality, another ten would no doubt rise to squeeze our collective nuts and refuse to let go. The problem is that we give them the support and in turn the poor, innocent and destitute suffer. I see photos like these, read incidences like this over and over and I am always on the brink of tears- mostly out of fury and the rest out of helplessness. Never should we give up hope in the mercy of Allah. We should all be making as much duca as possible and donating as much as possible- alas there is not much else many of us can do.

Just last night, I was invited over to a Moroccan friends place for dinner. Before dinner however we went out for a walk to the local beach and on the way back had a look at the seven or so homes of theirs in the South Melbourne/Albert Park area (my fellow Melbournians, I’m sure you know of the price tag I’m referring to here). What amazed me more than anything was that this man is not overly educated, came to Australia just a little over 30 years ago and now mashallah his homes alone (not to mention all the other investments including a Moroccan restaurant run by his lovely wife) are valued at over $1 Million each. In this space of time, they also had six children and managed to keep their Islamic beliefs. He achieved all this without taking a dime of riba money. I plan to re-visit him. As for now and for this year. I have made plans, I shall re-assess come December. Inshallah I hope to be able to stick to them, considering that aside from my uni debts (which get taken out of my account anyway) alhamdullilah I have none.

Ciid Mubaarak to all

Come again...? I'm proudly a member of the Muslim Ummah, but what in the world is a "Muhammedan Ummah"? "Muhammedan" is a derogatory term historically used by the staunchest anti-Islam people to deride the Holy Religion of its global, all-humanity nature by attributing its adherents' name to that of a single individual. The Messenger of Allah (scw) never referred to the believers of Islam as "Muhammedans" so where do you get the term from? Perhaps he meant by that ‘the ummah of Muhammad scw’ which mind you is correct to say.

Ahura, I would assume that any Muslim using the word ‘tent’ to describe the jilbaab would be a yasid, but you’re right, benefit of the doubt would be best. But when that same Muslim right after refers to it as a returning to of the Neanderthal era, then yes the tone of the previous (although the later has been recanted) is established, not to mention there is the comparison with the 'good old days'. Both these reasons lead to the conclusion about the tone. That said, it is not just a material which is the point of critical remark here rather a hijab which fulfills the requirements. I’m sure our brother good xiin could extrapolate on the Islamic evidence on why it is a sin and why it is sacrilegious- I’m meant to of have left this thread and in a hurry. Till next time nomads, Ciid wanaagsan .

I agree. Will you also agree with me that any other form of silly requisites passing off as the best hijab should be...revoked? Shouldnt a muslimah have the right to say - this is silly? She should CW, but then again, who is objecting in this thread? This is not the issue sister (I don't know why this is been made to be the issue). Once again no one is saying that the Somali style jilbaab is the only hijab which fulfills the requirements. This whole discussion was about the usage of the word ‘tent’ in its degrading undertone. That said even whilst it’s evident the Somali style jilbaab very much fulfills the requirements (whether or not we like the style or material or all that and more is irrelevant when it comes to degrading), we still have people like our brother Castro and others insisting on calling it a ‘tent’. If only he knew as I’ve said on how disheartening and sad it is to see a fellow Muslim degrade your choice as a Muslimah, your choice to meet the commands of your Creator. Like I said, say you don’t like the style or the material, but don’t expect to throw around such degrading taunts of a tumultuous proportion and not get objection. As a Hijabed Muslimah who has bore the brunt of similar taunts from the gaalo, this insistence to receive the same from your own brethren is on one hand saddening and the other absolutely disgusting. With that I leave this thread, but for any person who insists on using that word, I’d advise you to re-think it especially with regards to its impact. Like I said, we have enough enemies already, we don’t need anymore especially those amongst the ranks.

The issue is not whether a garbasar or malkhabad fulfill the conditions of hijaab but rather if the so-called tent is a foreign and sledge-hammer solution to swatting a fly, so to speak. The tent is a symbol, among others, that show a society that is regressing into gender inequality and oppression. The garbasaar and malkhabad became an issue for this is what our people wore as a hijab. The only garbasaar which would be considered as a type of hijaab are the big thick ones and we all know only the old women really wore those. Just do us a favour, get all the photos of even the 70s and 80s, pay close attention to the style of dress of the many halimas and please tell me whether or not that is hijab. Our women have alxamdullilah come a long way with regards to the hijab. Moreover, with all due respect adeer you sound like those non-Muslims who have this never-ending obsession with asking whether or not we are forced to wear the hijab. Has it ever occurred to you that many many Somali women chose to wear the jilbaab? To this day many many Somali women still choose to wear the jilbaab even in the west. I think that this quells the issue of force. That said, even if we do accept that it is a foreign form of the hijab, who gives and really what difference does it make? Is it breaking the conditions of the hijab? No! Is this particular style of the hijab been forced? No! No one is holding a gun to people’s heads, there might be pressure in some areas of Somalia, but there sure is no brutal force. Finally so much of our culture is stolen anyway. The trousers that you’re probably wearing now, was that not originally foreign? Similarly, that shirt, and heck those shoes too . Let’s not forget our foods, spaghetti is thanks to our previous occupiers; likewise we chose to steal the sambuus from across the ocean. The trail goes on and on- point is, it doesn’t make a difference I can’t say this enough, it fulfills the conditions of hijab and it is a choice that others have made. . Now, you still maintain the tent fulfills a religious requirement when you've failed to show how it is the only one that does so. What makes it the preferred solution to hijab requirements? And why is it not adopted by the majority of Muslims on earth (except in societies where oppression of women is rampant)? I don’t think that anyone said that it is the only style, so there is no need for me to try and explain that. I did not argue that, but what I did argue was that it is a style which does fulfill the requirements (and very good at that too). Also, if we are to go by the ways of the Muslims all over the globe, we’ll miss the target of Islam. We have texts of Islam; all our worships are by that. The Somali style jilbaab once again fulfills and really if you read the ahadith of how the female companions dressed, it is the closest style. At the end of the day Castro, often you seem to be hailing for the rights and choices of others, yet here you seem hell-bent on denying others this right, you seem hell-bent on debasing the choice of many Somali women. Understandable it would be if you were arguing on the premise that it violates the conditions of hijab, that adeer would be righteous, but you sit and write here that you just so happen to not like the style. What kind of an objection is that? No one is forcing you to wear it, but leave those who chose to wear it alone. They don’t need your taunts of ‘tent’ adeer, they get enough of that from the kufaar. Like it has been said, it is here to stay adeer. Don’t become like the kufaar who menace us hijabes everyday with taunts of napkin put-downs. It is very disheartening to see your fellow Muslims mimicking such vulgar taunts. What we need is for our fellow Muslim brothers to support our choices in worshipping Allah, not turning on us- like I said we have enough of that already. Are women not being made to bear an inordinate share of the blame for the sins of a nation? When all else fails, wrap up the women for they are the ones who wreak all havoc. What really gets me is how some view this as a choice. Adeer don’t try to teach me about the fighting for of women’s rights. I’m sure I’d be at the forefront of such a battle before you manage to pull on your shoes. That said; don’t make this about an issue of subjugating women or controlling them. With this insinuation dear Castro, you are inadvertently insulting the strong Somali women. Women have made this choice! Ahura, Tent as a description is not hurtful or sacrilegious. Like I said the square hijab does look like a napkin, laakiin it is the form and tone in which it is said which makes it sacrilegious. To say such taunts, be it ‘tent’ or ‘napkin’ in a tone of yasid (which Castro seemingly did- I still have not been corrected in case I am wrong) is sacrilegious. You are a hijabi Ahura, and you know how degrading and hurtful taunts such as ‘napkin’ and ‘tent’ in a tone of yasid can be. That is the point of contention here, at least as far as I’m concerned anyway. Rahima, A friend of mine once told me that the Somali style jilbaab is recommended by some scholares because your not allowed to show the parting between the arms (like with the surwaal). Have you heard this, do you know the source. Sorry to put you on the spot darling.. just have a feeling you'd know I too have often heard that the Somali style of the jilbaab is most often preferred by the Scholars because it fulfills the conditions that more. Furthermore, it is most often an outer garment which is what a jilbaab (as is used in the Quran) should be. As for the proofs, some hadiths and Quranic ayahs I’ve often come across: Hadith - Bukhari 6:282 'Aisha used to say: "When (the Verse): 'They should draw their veils over their necks and bosoms,' was revealed, (the ladies) cut their waist sheets at the edges and covered their faces with the cut pieces." Hadith - Abu Dawud, Narrated Umm Salamah, Ummul Mu'minin When the verse "That they should cast their outer garments over their persons" was revealed, the women of Ansar came out as if they had crows over their heads by wearing outer garments. i.e. indicating that it was one piece of clothing on top. The Noble Qur'an - Al-Ahzab 33:59 O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils)* all over their bodies (i.e. screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed. And Allah is Ever Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. *the arabic word here is Jalabeeb (plural of Jalbaab), which is the loose outer garment that covers all a woman's body. Hadith - Abu Dawud, Narrated Dihyah ibn Khalifah al-Kalbi The Apostle of Allah was brought some pieces of fine Egyptian linen and he gave me one and said: Divide it into two; cut one of the pieces into a shirt and give the other to your wife for veil. Then when he turned away, he said: And order your wife to wear a garment below it and not show her figure. P.S. I have a question for the more knowledgeable Nomads of this thread in religon, particularly: Khayr, Xiinfaniin, Rahima , or anyone else. What is the history or the story behind this particular Jalbaab (the tent-looking one) in Islam. Were muslim women donning this particular style since time immemorial? Hit me with a hadith, slap me with a verse, or just pull-out the formidable Fatzooka (the islamic juridical Bazooka). I promise, I will not retaliate. All that said before it, is a clear indication of your attitude walaal. I really am not ready for ridicule, so please excuse me if I chose to decline the answering of any questions coming from you in my directions.

So far, true. But not likely when Rahima and Sharia people come the law. She, Rahima, is on record saying she's for Sharia and would have no qualms in foisting her choice for dress on ALL Somali girls. This is a view shared by most Sharia people. Although I can’t ever remember saying that, you’re spot on. I cannot be a Muslim and be against the Shariica. I also believe that all citizens should respect the laws of the land, which they reside in. If it so happened that for example Somalia was governed by the Shariica law and one of its laws was that all Muslim women must wear the hijaab (how is irrelevant, just that it fulfills the requirements), then yes I believe that all Muslim must wear the hijaab. Here in Australia for example, it is illegal to go about in your birthday suit. Whilst we can technically argue that it is a person’s choice how they wish to go about their business, this is against the law and any person violating this law should receive the appropriate punishment. The Shariica for the average person is the same, it is a system of governance, for the Muslim however it deserves far more respect than you are willing to give it (even if we accept that you are giving any at all). To Rahima: atheer, I reject your argument that the tent (what you mistakenly refer to as the hijab) was knowledge Somalis lacked prior to 1990. What you're saying, basically, is that for the centuries that Somalis were muslim, they were ignorant of Islam and they, conveniently, and rapidly, acquired this knowledge in the past 15 years? Do you see the flaw in your argument atheer? Castro, what Somalis (generalizing of course) pre-1990 considered the hijab was not the proper hijab. The thin Somali garbasar or malkhabad just covering the hair with the neck and chest exposed were considered hijab. We all know that neither fulfills the conditions of hijab. Let me give you an example- my mother in the year 1981 was studying at Lafoole. At that time, she wasn’t overly religious, but she was somewhat interested in the religion. She used to wear to uni, a thin garbasaar- mind you we have photos. To make the story short, my mother along with a few other female students was thrown out of the uni after a crackdown on the ‘wadaado’ (and although she was not one, she was seen as wearing a symbol belonging to them). It took her two years to get back. Now you tell me that that is not a lack of knowledge. Muslims in a Muslim country were been punished for following their religion. Can you imagine that happening now in Somalia? I think not adeer. Somalis in many ways are more screwed up now than pre-1990, but one thing they have generally gotten right is the hijaab- you don't have to like it, but it fulfills the requirements of hijab. As for the word ‘tent’ brother it is said in a tone of yassid, a put down when in fact people have a choice to adorn it. They are not breaking any of the Islamic requirements for the hijab, so how is it that any Muslim can refer to it in a terminology, which is a form degradation? Putting all aside Castro, what have those Muslim sisters done wrong for you and a few others to refer to their choice of hijab (because it is a type of hijab) as a ‘tent’, a word of put down (as it appears)? For another Muslimah to say I don’t like the style of that particular hijab, then that is a personal preference, but to put down the choice of others, especially when that action is a form of worship to Allah is just wrong. To say it as a form of yasid is sacrilegious. Please do correct me, perhaps you just meant it as a description and was not attacking it in a form of put down. That said, I also don’t see how this is any different than the gaalo calling our hijabs a napkin. Do you know how that feels :confused: ? Sure it might look like a napkin (a square piece of material), but they by calling it a ‘napkin’ are using it as a put down, degradation. Similarly, by the simple fact of the way you used the word ‘tent’ it seems that you meant it as a put down. Like I said you don’t have to like that style per se, but you mustn’t ever put down the rightful choice of sisters who are obeying their Lord.

^ Little you know my dear , then again it would be silly to take your thoughts on Islam seriously Castro, The hijab has always been part of our religion; it just so happened that our people lacked this knowledge. Those pics above Castro in terms of the lack of hijab are not something we should be hailing for, similarly we should not be referring to the hijab as a ‘tent’ or state that because of it we are ‘well on our way to becoming Neanderthals’. When it comes to the hijaab Castro it is very clear that our people were doing something wrong before, likewise on the issue of tawxiid- we have a much better understanding now. On the flip side though we understood the meaning of brotherhood better before. Nevetheless walaal, this is very dangerous thinking and equally dangerous terminology. We must never belittle or mock that which is part of our religion.

^ No misunderstanding Xoog. I understood very well. My dislike and disagreement on this idea lies on the basis that cooking and sewing would be the predominate subjects taught to our sisters and that this is supposedly ‘the way forward regarding Women Education’. Bullocks! To get anywhere in this world you at least need the basics of education and that is not knowing how to cook and sew. Nothing wrong with having them as electives whilst at high school or having special schools (tertiary level of course, once the basics have been acquired) for these areas, but they must never be the predominate areas of learning for young girls. They will loose out on so much and it is on this basis that I still believe it stinks. To insinuate that this is ‘the way forward’ is to call for all of women’s education to be geared this way and thereby like I said keep them down, downtroddened and under your feet. This way you will hear nothing but ‘yes master’ and never get an assertive ‘no’ or at the very least a ‘why’ and most hopefully ‘get stuffed and jump off a lake’ . Btw, what kind of opinions expressed do you strongly disagree with? You said some of them stink. Best example: I think cooking classes should be available here in North America as well for some girls in their twenties who can't cook somali food. Waa ceeb gabaran cunto karin aqoon Ceeb? What is so shameful about not knowing how to cook? Is a women’s self-worth and dignity dependant on this :rolleyes: ? No! So why the ceeb is she does not know how? PS: Won't you be the "Loving Wife" to your husband and cook? All depends on his actions. Marriage is a contractual business. My actions depend on how he is- be nice to me and I shall be to you. Be an a'ss to me and well you get the drift... As for cooking in particular I’ll cook as the ‘loving wife’ so long as he either cooks for me as the ‘loving husband’ or whilst I do that, clean the whole house. Like I said business mate, business- I don’t plan to break my back for anyone other than my parents .

Those 'tents' castro are part of our religion. We should not mock the hijab irrespective of how women chose to wear it.

Castro, save the dough mate. The Americans are coming .

Bisharo :eek: . We'll talk woman, in private though, too many piercing and judgmental eyes. I promise i won't. What I find disturbing is how some of these young girls think life is about their pleasure and their men pleasing them eternally. Replace ‘young girls’ with ‘young men’ and ‘their men’ with ‘their women’ and then I’d say you were right on the money . You want proof, go back to your post in that dreaded section in that topic about women’s education- I’m still thinking of a way to punish you for that opinion :mad: . No, you do not have a right to express your opinion. There is no such thing as a right to freedom of expression, especially as it is so backward- the opinion that is.

^ Spicing I think can be done in many ways, but showers and toilet are private times. God, the thought of having someone in your face all the freakin time is scary enough let alone having them in the shower with you as well. Thanks but no thanks, I’d rather lead a boring ‘love life’ then have my shower time invaded . LOZ, that shower area is two small for two people. That shower is more than big enough for two people unless of course they are Americans, then I think it would be an issue even for one .

^Must of have been Channel 7 or the Herald Sun. Never pay attention to either - absolute qashin. Although i can't remember which station (probably 9, SBS or ABC), i saw it reported correctly as the niece of Osama. Anyway, have you seen the clip of THE MAN going to hajj? He has his faults as we all do, but one thing is for sure, the man is very very proud to be a Muslim. May Allah bless him for that and accept his hajj.

I went. I shopped. I was convinced I’d made good use. I was convinced I’d scored bargains galore. Now I have succumb to reality. It is all too over-rated and a waste of bloody time. What you want to be on sale is never on sale :mad: . All the items i wanted (mainly shoes and bags) were not on sale. They knew I wanted them but the morons chose to retain those ridiculous prices.

^ Oh yes, we must do all to serve men :rolleyes: . Get over it boys, this idea like some of your views stinks. Nothing wrong with learning to cook and/or sew on the side, but times have changed and you cannot call this ‘the way forward regarding Women Education’. There are more important things for us to learn, however it seems that some are trying as hard they possibly can to keep women under their feet. Ensure that she remains uneducated and you will forever have the slave in the palm of your hands :rolleyes: . reer surwaalgaab are trying too hard to reverse all of that. MMA, Express as you like walaal, for I sense that you are referring to the chauvinists of our community, but must you identify them with a sunnah? Some chauvinists might just so happen to wear the Islamic attire, laakiin many others are also in the mukhyaado chewing on the green stuff or only at best going to the masjid for salaatul ciid. To shorten the trousers for men is to follow the example of our blessed prophet. This should be used as a positive description rather then negative. That said, the degradation of women is not part of Islam, rather it is part of our culture and if you ask me a part which should be abolished. It is a culture practiced primarily by those who lack the understanding of our religion and most adore trousers below the ankles .

Jamilah, Congratulations and bravo . I saw your sister the other night and she told me of the good news. Way to go with the science also- remember that it’s the best path to get to your ultimate goal. Despite graduating with an engineering degree(it was a good kind of hell) and being articulate enough to sail through interviews, I have struggled to achieve what my peers have. U have to work extra hard if u're a minority, if u're female and Muslim(sporting the obligatory hijab) u're f*cked. If the Lord made u black too, prepare for a fight. Exactly know how you feel. During my later years of high school I was convinced I was going to do Engineering (specifically Civil). I’d taken all the right subjects (almost every type of Math offered) and made sure that I got the mark to get into an engineering degree at the best university in Melbourne. I then went to the open day and boy was I in for a shock, the ratio as they told us was for every 1 female student, there were 400 male. I was shocked somewhat, but still being the hardheaded Xalima I am I was still determined especially after being coerced by a scholarship (they were hungry for female engineers). Time went by and I spoke to people at every chance about this option, but time after time I was facing the same points, I was the minority of minorities (if that exists). I was female, black and a visible Muslim (a hijabi). For a field which is dominated by white males, the chance of me finding a job was almost nil. I thought long and hard (because I had my heart set on it) and fortunately decided against it. That said, you’d think I’d make the right choice after that, but I didn’t. I listened to my chemistry teacher (who obviously was biased- but I was young, naive and extremely impressionable, I looked up to him) and pursued medical science. Big Big mistake. I hated it (very passionate I know, but I did hate it) and really the employment opportunities in Australia are very low. Two years of that and I decided I couldn’t take it, switched programs and put the med science on the backburner on a part-time basis (I wasn’t going to waste it especially with only a year to go). My new program that I’ve just completed was interesting, applicable and has a high employment rate. Furthermore, it was a perfect pathway to get into medicine, which I decided was the way to go after trashing the views of the reer badiyo folks who insist that medicine is too long and when will you get married, have kids :rolleyes: (and I was 19). Even if I don’t get into med, at least it is a perfect program to set me up for a masters in public health. I now am in a position where I am half-way to where I want to be. I start full-time work in January, doing my honours inshallah and got a good enough GPA to set me up for my further goals. Similarly, if I wanted to get married and have a child (no litters), I feel that in the next year or two I could. The reason I write all this Jamilah , is to highlight how important good advice is (like that of Castros). Had I had good advice, I could of have been in this position two years ago . The Somalis in Australia are not as educationally/economically developed as their brethren in the UK, USA and Canada, therefore finding advice which was Islamically and culturally appropriate was extremely hard. Finding sisters for example who have gone through the experiences which were at my feet was almost impossible, I mean I was the only Somali sister at my university at that time. I don’t regret any of my choices for I believe it has equipped me that little more for the worst, but had I known better I wouldn’t of have wasted getting my heart set on engineering and I would never of have contemplated medical science. Of course choices are different for all, but that would be for me. You will inshallah be in my ducas .

Zu, I’ve never watched it laakiin, the ad that's on CH7 now is the ultimate turn off :eek: . The battery and nipple one? Disgusting, that was enough to ensure that I never even accidentally see it on. No surprise anyway, I hate the Simpson’s and all the other adult cartoons.

Without even doing the quiz, I know I am a procrastinator, but like you Baashi I work best under pressure. I’ve tried for example starting assignment early and walaahi when I start them with very little time to the due date I do much much better. As they say, if ain’t broke, why fix it ? As long as I get it done successfully that is all that matters. My procrastination use to bother me, but no longer- I have learned to embrace it , nothing I can do about changing it.

Xoogsade, If ever there were a prize for the best insult, your post would take first, second and third place. You can hold the opinion that your own is always the best (I’m of the same opinion also), but must you degrade us such :confused: ? You’ve turned us into sex objects, objects that have no other qualities to be married for other than our supposed good looks. You’ve also indicated that those of us who leave the fold are supposedly sex-crazed. I don’t know if it just me, but that post was not to my liking at all. You might think that you were complimenting the sisters with all the supposed beauty stuff, but it is insulting for any thinking xaliima who chooses for herself to marry an ajanabi brother . MMA, couldn’t agree more. It disgusts me to see ajanabi been accepted so readily yet the mere mention of marriage to a fellow Somali who is also Muslim making most Somalis cringe. Inshallah this will change. Rahima, I don't know which Somalis you refer to, but most Somalis that do venture outside their community do not prefer white over black. I suppose all our opinions and views are shaped by our personal experiences. Where I am, and any other countries I have been to, Somalis who marry non-Somalis tend to venture towards the white folks and somehow degrade fellow blacks, although they too are Muslims. That said, another look at our people further cements this opinion- how often do you see will ama gabar soomaali from the tribes not discriminated against marrying a fellow brother/sister who so happens to be Bantu? I’ve never seen it or heard of such a union; therefore I’m guessing the numbers are very small.

Ha ku kufrin the blessings of Allah Catro. He gave you a Xalima for God sake and chose you to be a Farax- I say that fate has being very kind to you Fidel . Also there is preference and then there is what Somalis do. They (generally speaking of course) actually believe that they are above other Muslims who have more Negroid features. If that is not racism then I fail to understand what is.

I believe no man/woman should be commited to death if his/her crime is not proven, evidence should be 100% clear, without a shadow of doubt. Agree completely. I am 100% against the death penalty in a legal system which uses other than the complete, full and just application of the Shariah. I do not believe that any country in the world applies the laws of Allah, as they should be. Cases like this just prove why Islam and the Shariah are so perfect. They may of have just killed an innocent man.