Fair enough, I am only talking about my home North central that’s all, sister stop using “disputed region†there is NO disputed region, dhulka dad baa leh, we can say occupied region, I get angry when foreigners portray NFD, Palestine, Western Somalia, Kashmiir as disputed regions, I say there are no disputed regions because planted on every regoin people, in reality there is only occupied regions Like I said, ones viewpoints are determined by which side of the fence Allah chose for them to be born of (and often folks forget that it was not a choice of their own making), NFD, Palestine, Western Somalia and Kashmir I say are not disputed because it is Muslims vs Kufaar, biased perhaps, but I am not ashamed to admit so. These two regions however I care not in terms of who lays claim, at the end of the day it is a land of Muslims where one can pray and worship Allah in peace, that really is all that matters. If one part want to stay with Somalia then let them, if another want to secede let them, just draw the borders, as they should. Similarly, Mudug is a disputed region, half claim it is part of PL and the other not, they've drawn an imaginary line for themselves and it seems to be working, maybe these regions should do the same. I don’t get what all the bickering is really. Once upon a time all these borders did not exist, now they’ve become untouchable and cause civil wars. It is unnecessary that one should kill a fellow Muslim over such an issue. Well that applies to everyone whether he/she is from Borame Hergeysa, Laascaanood, Boosaaso or Mogadishu. It doesn’t apply only to one clan or region I know, which is why I reject all stats that I have not seen proof of myself (like in Awdal). Another inappropriate statement, why don’t you say if I asked a pro-union from borame/hergeysa like (me), about the union debate, they would support Somalia and reject secession No, that which you state is innappropriate for likewise I could reason, how about a pro-secessionist who is originally from LA? Which there are, and I’m sure you know that . These types of people are rare and we all know it. Well sister you blaming one side its grossly unfair, I have :confused: , where and who have I blamed? And blamed on what premise? Sister my home region alhamdulilaah presently there is relative peace, and there are no active wars and no my home region is not burning. I pray Allah, your region Banadir if I am correct, and all other Somali region to enjoy peace, progress, and stability Insha Allah Your home my dear is burning. You talk about unity and not dividing, yet that is exactly what you are doing. Like I said, your room can be semi-clean (North central), but that doesn’t matter when your home (Somalia) is in a mess. And yes my region is Banadir since that is where I was born- I hope that is what you meant,lool . Gotta love Somalis.

^Xaasidad, i'm sure that cost her a pretty penny dearest, let her flaunt in happiness. As for breast surgery, reconstruction and augmentation i get, but implants for Somali women? Wonders never cease!

If Sool and Sanaag don’t want to be part of clan state of Somaliland? Why you believe the people of Sool Sanaag should be to part Somaliland Did I say that? I believe I didn’t, all I said was that for someone to object to the notion of secession because SL is claming land which is disputed upon, then yes, that sort of objection as I see it is legitimate. Outside of that, where there is almost complete support, outsiders (which we are) have no right to object. I believe north Somalia is made up of four regions Awdal region ( 50% support secession), Northwest (80 support secession), North central (90% support unity with Somalia or they don’t want to part of so-called Somaliland), Northeast Bari (amazingly because of error they are part of the south) It all depends on who you ask. I disagree with your stats on one point, I can say with almost complete certainty that the support in Awdal is much much greater than 50%. You wanna know how I know, I’ve seen with my own two eyes. The people of Awdal my friend are happy with the idea and whilst they may not be as enthusiastic regarding it and whilst they see it in general a temporary notion, nevertheless they choose it as the best option for themselves at this point in history. With regards to North Central, who knows, I bet ya if I asked a SL, the opposite would be the case- I can’t comment on that and am not interested in stats for they are twisted to prove an agenda. You are totally unfair to people of north central Somalia, how you can claim that 50% of the people of North central (Sool sanaag and cayn) support the secession, a false statement. If you want to know the truth go visit the north central region, ask people from north central their views, there are many nmad here in this forum from north central like soomaal, naxar nugaaleed, caamir, maakhir I don’t ever expect for our people to be objective and take qabiil out of their politics, like I said if I asked a SL from those regions about the secession debate, they would say the opposite. Now I’m not saying one or the other is correct, all I’m saying is that if you, Caamir, Maakhir or any others are against SL because they lay claim to your land, then on that point object (and I support). But what they do in Hargeysa or Boorame is not your concern now, because your own home burns. Note: I don’t mind if Northwest secedes, that’s for northwest Somalis to decide Good, that’s what I think also. Have that sort of pride. You talk about Islamic values and the need for unity in Islam. I can follow you that far but then you start talking about dividing the country as a last minute miracle to safe some of the Somali people from a barbaric civil war, not realizing that this move is actually starting a new civil war. Why would there be a civil war if the people are in support? I still fail to see why it matters to the rest of us what they decide in Hargeysa and Boorama. These regions are peaceful. 10 out of the 18 Somali provinces are peaceful and are at the same stage of development. Hargeysa can not claim to be more peaceful the Bosaso today. Burco can not claim to be more peaceful then Laas Caanood. Borame can not claim to be more peaceful then Gaalkacyo. The economic developments, the infrastructure and health care are all on the same level in these cities and regions. May be so (except that Boorama is more peaceful than Gaalkacyo), but PL has chosen to be part of Somalia with all it’s troubles and that they have to also lump. If the house is messy, just because your upstairs bedroom is semi-clean it doesn’t mean you can overlook the rest. You’ve chosen to live in that home and therefore have to be part of the cleaning process. SL has chosen to live next door. Anyway boys, like i said object because you believe that your land is been claimed wrongfully, but do not object because others have chosen to not be with you. At the very least (for the sake of unity based on Islam), fix your home and then come to the table so that all may benefit from the unity. MMA, Anger is not the word, disappointment is more like it . That reply to me was something the cheerleaders would vomit out (and hence the cheer right after yours). My objections to the Amxaaro are as clear as day and it has nothing to do with nationalism.

Are you saying although you know that the secession is wrong and that the people are against it, its still ok to secede? I am now of the opinion that you are not being true to your religion. You are contradicting your religion. You say that the dismemberment of a muslim nation is ok while you don't look at the other alternative ways of healing the wounds of the nation. Me, you need to get real mate. There is the ideal and then there is reality. I believe that the breaking up of a Muslim nation is against Islam, in fact having so many Muslim countries in this world and not having them under the banner of one khalifa is against Islam, however what are we to do until we get there? Sit around and cry about it or get real and make foreword steps towards it? The latter is that which I hope you have chosen. The same reason why we have to support any feral leader we may have, any governance is better than none. Temporary solutions to achieve the ultimate good or to avoid greater evil are allowed in Islam you know, to say so does not mean that one is not been true to their religion. Now for the case of the Horn, firstly, I don’t believe that all the people of SL are against it. I however acknowledge that perhaps even half of the population of the two disputed regions disagree, the rest are basically all in agreement (and they are, we should get real on this point also). Now with that been reality, what is to be done? The majority agree and want to secede; they have found success in this secession for they have achieved what we are unable to. Now I know that Somalis never like success or good for one another, but they have and kudos to them I believe. Once again keeping all this in mind what is to be done? We agree that as a concept disunity is wrong and against Islam, but at this point do they have an alternative other than to join the barbaric acts of the rest of us? I don’t believe that the average SL has so much hatred for his/her fellow Somalis that no matter what they would still want to secede, no, in fact I believe they have chosen this option purely out of necessity. When we get out house in order and come to like I said the table of unity, if SL then still chooses to be separate, then yes objection (based on Islam) is founded. But right now, when you don’t have any supper, do you expect others to go hungry also?

Me, Look at the advantages and the disadvantages. Just because its hard doesnt make its wrong. I’m not pro-secession as a concept (seems like you missed my point ) I’m just not opposed to it in the current climate of the Horn (for any administration is better than anarchy) and as far as there is complete agreement by the people, I have no right to object (making noise about it achieves nothing). For the two disputed regions (which they are, they claim it and others claim it), I get the argument, but for other regions, really it is their choice no? I don’t think it’s right, but at the same time since we have bigger problems I see it as a non-issue at this point in time. I’m not sure if I can make it any clearer :confused: . Stop this intellectual lazyness please and work and fight for those things that unite us and against all things that hold us back, that hold us hostage that make us hate each other. I have never been fan of the so called umma, the umma has been the number one excuse for the cowards. It is a shield that they always hide behind. Umma this Umma that, I am sorry but what is this umma your talking about? Us Somalis are a part of the Ummah in a religious sense, we have never been a part of the umma in any other way. Contradicting yourself aren’t you mate ? What greater unity is there than the Ummah? The Ummah I refer to is the one of Muhammad s.c.w and I’A will one day have a Khalifah. At least I’m only bitter as far as the sick Somalis go (but even then when I’m not pissed I am hopeful). I have faith that unity will happen someday (not only for Somalis but the Ummah also), but probably not in my lifetime. I can live with that, but the concept I still hold dear, although I know not applicable at this point. Anyway what’s all this about the Ummah anyway? You’re taking it so out of context. I think all your points on the Ummah are irrelevant to our discussion so we can leave it at that. That said striving for unification of the Ummah under a righteous Khalifa does not equate to slavery, as you seem to arguing. I disagree with you on that, for I believe the system of governance chosen by Allah for us is perfect even if people tend to distort it. I’m not saying that they won’t, but I sure do hope for one based on the foundations of our religion. Once again, I don’t believe such a perfect system has to end in slavery and really like I said is irrelevant anyway. Nice conversing with you me ; I was just expressing my opinion not wanting to get into a long discussion, which is now seemingly venturing into areas of non-issue. I'll leave it at that whilst i'm still sane.

Very interesting report, I'A things will progress postively. Thanks for the link

Are saying non-real SL (I guess you mean those who opposing secession mainly people from pro-union regions within north Somalia) cannot speak for their home region north Somalia? No, not completely. You see, I have been educated by some in this forum (and correct me if I’m wrong), SL is made up of many regions, some which are arguably completely pro-secession and others (two to be exact) are disputed over, where half of the population is pro and the other is against. Now if ones objection is on these two regions been labelled as SL and therefore as part of the secession, I understand and respect. But if the dispute is simply because why should they secede at this time, then I disagree. I think it’s obvious what I feel about unity, Ideally I would love not only Somali unity, but the unity of the ummah as a whole, however since that doesn’t seem to be happening, I’d rather people part on good terms and get on with the job. Going by the current state of the Horn (SL included), the secession of others is of little concern- we don’t even have a government which is functioning as it should (and I’m not laying blame with any group here). How then can we sit here and speak about others who have managed to achieve years ago what we still strive for today? At the very least, we should be making positive strides, developments and get a functioning government and then come to the table of unity with something. Thus far we remain empty handed, are they meant to be held hostage by us? That said, I also have some level of pride you see , as I see it if you don’t wanna be my friend, then ta ta and have a nice life. I don’t believe in such things- but then again that’s perhaps just me. You mean tribalism, be straightforward, that could explain why some north Somalis are supporters of Riyaale’s clan militia and others are opponents and resisting the Somaliland Yes tribalism, tribalism dictates everything about our people. From politics to friendships. Like I said unfortunate, but what can you do? The problem my brother is bigger then secessions, it’s sick hearts. I used to get frustrated, I now find it bitterly amusing- that is all you can do. Salaan... To some, slicing the country into many jigsaw pieces is no big deal. Nothing at all. But Amxaaro ayaa xuduud beenaad kasoo tilaabsaneyso, all hell is loose. Suddenly, they are wadani. I don't know what they are wadani about since they don't believe any wadan at all, and to begin with. Don't they also know breaking into that pieces a country like ours fits perfectly the Amxaaro/Tigreey political stratedy they have for our country. Talk about misplaced national priorities. I’ve never claimed to be fighting for national priorities or any of sort. If Ethiopia were a Muslim nation, I really wouldn’t have any problems with them entering and doing what they are claiming to. My objection to the Amxaaro is but one MMA (yes that's right i was woman enough to address you as MMA ), the administration is one of kufr, full of Islam, Muslim-hating kuffaar. We are all aware of the oppression of our people in the Somali areas they control, to the point that having a beard is a crime and carrying a Quran could be detrimental to your life. Politics aside, this is what matters. Not what you or that cheerleader wish to portray it as. If the two of you are satisfied with such people who will punish you for simply testifying to the Lordship of Allah, then to each their own. I however am not satisfied. SL seceding does not impede me or my people from practising Islam or worhsipping Allah, as He deserves to be. SL seceding does not mean that I am at risk of harm or oppression. I find it quiet disgusting that one would put the Amxaaro on par with SL (fellow Somalis who are MUSLIMS). Being divided, despite how it may seem now, only serves the Somali people's enemy. Boy am I aware of that HA (it's also against our diin anyway), but I’ve chosen to not care anymore. I don’t very much like Somalis .

^ As far as i'm concerned, Somalis can break themselves up to in a hundred clan entities (which the Horn is now anyway) if they so wish, so long as they achieve peace and prosperity, short of selling their religion i don't care how they do it, even if along clan lines. I've lost hope that we are able to clean our hearts of this disease so they might as well do something positive with it, no? And yes, whilst unfortunate (don't think i agree, i'm disgusted by it) SL, PL, Mogadishu and every other land within the Horn is along clan lines. That's the fate of our people.

^I try my dear, i really do, laakiin the embarrassment takes over . As for the rest, where you were born these days does not necessarily dictate your political views, it’s all about that which caused our demise. You are most welcome me, it’s up to you how you take my advice, but really unless you’re a real SL, it just sounds like you’re jealous (not just you necessarily – general terms).

^

Clan tribe, whatever really, doesn’t matter much to me . That said me; the SL issue has been done to death, enough really. The Somalis from Somalia sound like a bunch of jealous losers who cry over the houses of others when they can’t get their own in order. Start with yourself and those who agree with you- leave others alone. Worry yourself with the SL issue once your own house is in order. I’m pretty sure I could resurface a million such topics in the archives of this forum. I find this obsession and jealousy embarrassing .

I think I know what you meean now. You do

We demand he says, cajiib ! People sure do think that they are important. The people of Mogadishu are satisfied, once again as I told the other cheerleader, it is none of your business really, but hey if you wanna keep feeling important, by all means please keep making these laughable demands- gives me a good laugh

^The brother is blinded by that which caused our demise in the first place. Ignore his rantings. The affairs of Mogadishu are none of his business and since its residents are satisfied that is all that matters .

lol.....yes he was, he was a henchman for the dictatorial regime. He was a member of the dreaded NSS. Who cares? Look at our godforsaken leaders and criticise them instead of attacking the establishments of people who are actually doing something for themselves. Who cares what Riyaale did, at least he doesn't have the blood of the innocent on his hands unlike our lovely leader. Walaahi you people need to get over Somaliland. Somaliland is gone, goodbye and good luck to them. You have more pressing issues to concern yourselves with, namely the state of your own politics. At least they have a common goal and unity. At least they are making positive strides, what are the Somalis from Somalia doing other than bickering about useless tribes just like in this forum? Nothing I tell you, not only do they hate for SL to progress, they also hate for each other to progress. Lecture them!

The punishment for rape in Islam is same as the punishment for zina, which is stoning if the perpetrator is married, and one hundred lashes and banishment for one year if he is not married. I posted that link Viking to highlight that there are differing views, reading on that becomes evident, as many scholars make no distinction on the punishment for the rapists, be he married or not. Well i dont belieave in sharia law and i dont think religion and politics should be mixed, such mentality should be left were it belongs and that is the 7th century. And btw stop making up lies, i never showed any anti-islamic stance, You have now!

As fo rape, isn't the punishment 100 lashes if the rapist is unmarried? Was the rapist a married man? Viking, there is a difference between just plain zina and rape (married or not married). Read the following for clarification: http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=72338&dgn=4 And I suppose you could research it more yourself. Rachel, This is the ruling for a rapist who admits his crime. The Islamic stance on that is very clear. There is no need for other issues as with regards to my post for I was reffering to rapists who admit to their crime. I did not invent Islam, don't argue with me about it.

Good! One by one they go.

Amazing how some people have stooped so low as to attack that which was sanctioned by Allah and practiced by Rasuallah. Rapists (proven guilty that is, and a condition of the courts) deserve to die. To make their deaths public is a deterrent to the people. At the time of the prophet, adulterers were stoned to death in public. Some are against it because they deny the sunnah to begin with, some believe that they have become so “educated†and “civilised†that they now feel that they have authority to question the laws of their lord, and finally some put tribe before Islam.

^Did I delibarately mention that you are a coward? Yes and not only once mind you. Allow me to jog your memory: So, to your point, it seems you are scared to publicize your joy in here, which is the characteristic of Cigaal-Shiidaad. which I ultimately believe is what gives you the attribution of Cigaal-Shiidaad! Come on, Eedo, don't allow the feeling of guilt kill me, please! Good .

So because i disagree with your royal highness, i am a coward? Waa yahay young man, this is recorded! Have a nice day, and any cowardly traits you may have are certainly not from me. I am as brave as a Halima comes thank-you very much.

This man's conviction in Salafi Caqiida I suspect will not be marred by his political ambitions. A man who values the salafi caqida truly is to be praised in my books. A man who does not jump on the bandwagon of tribalists to put down sincere Muslims is to be praised in my books. Call me a cynical git with pessimism to his teeth, but my dear fellow, al though I welcome the developments in Mogadishu; I am weary of what will come of this when the euphoria vanishes. We have seen this in Afghanistan—even go back to the death of Omar (the waqtul Fitnah). Power is dangerous especially one that is mixed with religion. Unless that is you have a society that is trained in away that directs whole to one objective. You might say the objective here is to bring forth a semblance of peace! But then what; we have peace where do we go from here? If these are not the words and concerns of a sincere individual then I do now know what sincere means. Brother I agree almost completely on every point and concerns raised by Sophist. The only ones that I reserve my judgement on are those that I have no knowledge of, and even if I did, it would simply be a disagreement, a differing of opinions, not a reason to label the brother as a tribalist or one who is apprehensive about Islamic developments back home. I wonder what this makes me in your books my good brother? So, to your point, it seems you are scared to publicize your joy in here, which is the characteristic of Cigaal-Shiidaad. Why? Because I hate this god-forsaken place. I’m not even really sure why I’m even writing here, no actually I do know, I’m avoiding getting my work done, but that is beside the point . Whether or not I express my thoughts here or there matters not really. One thing you can’t accuse me of is having any characteristics of cigaal-shiidaad as far as this corner of SOL is concerned, I was the only one publicly in favour of the courts as the better option for Mogadishu, long before you even found your way to SOL .

it was full of tribalism and nonsense that you chose to believe. You feeling right brother? What tribalism are you reffering to? I read no nonsense, the brother has made valid points. Some points i have no idea about, but i can state with almost complete certainty that tribalism plays no part. I don't see how you could accuse an individual with such islamically orientated views of tribalism. You leave me perplexed :confused: . With regards to your reply in the other thread, joy can be expressed outside of this forum .

Allah is always there to help those who turn to him. Alhamdulliah I'm so incredibly happy. I hope that Somalia truly changes into an Islamic State in every sense of the word. Alxamdullilah and amiin. I can’t imagine how any decent Somali could possibly at this point be opposed to the events and the victory of the courts. Opposition is only of one of two camps as I see it- Islam/Islamic state haters (very few in this forum) or the revolting tribalists who hate any positive developments for the people of Mogadishu. The latter of the two seem to be in full force lately, victory has just come; the courts have yet to deal with the problems of Mogadishu itself, yet they expect changes in an unrealistic timeframe. Inshallah further positive developments will be made, however as with all such matters time will be required. Almost two years since good old adeer CY and Co came to power- we still wait for any sort of progress other than moving around like nomads. I pray that the courts continue their wave of victory and make all the necessary changes especially as with regards to Mogadishu and its residents. I doubt that they will be left alone in peace to do so, but nevertheless I hope that they succeed.