Caano Geel, this is the main article: Seeing Islam as 'Evil' Faith, Evangelicals Seek Converts By LAURIE GOODSTEIN GROVE CITY, Ohio — On a recent Saturday in a church fellowship hall here, evangelical Christians from several states gathered for an all-day seminar on how to woo Muslims away from Islam. The teacher urged a kindly approach: always show Muslims love, charity and hospitality, he said, and carry copies of the New Testament to give as gifts. The students, scribbling notes, included two pastors, a school secretary and college students who said they hoped to convert Muslims in the United States, or on mission trips abroad. But although the teacher, an evangelical preacher from Beirut, stressed the need to avoid offending Muslims, he projected a snappy PowerPoint presentation showing passages from the Koran that he said proved Islam was regressive, fraudulent and violent. "Here in the Koran, it says slay them, slay the infidels!" said the teacher, who said he did not want to be identified because being a missionary to Muslims put his life at risk. "In the Bible there are no words from Jesus saying we should kill innocent people." At the grass roots of evangelical Christianity, many are now absorbing the antipathy for Islam that emerged last year with the incendiary comments of ministers. The sharp language, from religious leaders like Franklin Graham, Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson and Jerry Vines, the former president of the Southern Baptist Convention, has drawn rebukes from Muslims and Christian groups alike. Mr. Graham called Islam "a very evil and wicked religion, and Mr. Vines called Muhammad, Islam's founder and prophet, a "demon-possessed pedophile." In evangelical churches and seminaries across the country, lectures and books criticizing Islam and promoting strategies for Muslim conversions are gaining currency. More than a dozen recently published critiques of Islam are now available in Christian bookstores. Arab International Ministry, the Indianapolis group that led the crash course on Islam here, claims to have trained 4,500 American Christians to proselytize Muslims in the last six years, many of those since the 2001 terrorist attacks. The oratorical tone of these authors and lecturers varies, but they share the basic presumption that the world's two largest religions are headed for a confrontation, with Christianity representing what is good, true and peaceful, and Islam what is evil, false and violent. The criticism is coming predominantly from evangelicals, who belong to many independent churches and Christian denominations, including the Southern Baptist Convention. Evangelicals have always believed that all other religions are wrong, but what is notable now is the vituperation. "The Koran's good verses are like the food an assassin adds to poison to disguise a deadly taste," writes Don Richardson, a well-known missionary who worked in Muslim countries, in "Secrets of the Koran" (Regal Books, 2003). "Better to find the same food, sans poison, in the Bible." This month, he is scheduled to speak on Islam at churches in five American cities. Most of the authors and teachers preach a corollary of the Christian dictum to "love the sinner and hate the sin." They assert that while the vast majority of Muslims are not evil, they have been deceived by a diabolical religion based on a flawed scripture that can never bring them salvation. Akbar Ahmed, chairman of the Islamic studies department at American University, said he grew up attending Catholic and Protestant missionary schools in Pakistan, but never heard a negative word about Islam from the missionaries. Now, he said, the new hostility to Islam and, in particular, the insults to the prophet Muhammad have outraged the Muslim world. "The whole range of Muslims, from orthodox to liberal secularists, are all lined up against these attacks coming from the American evangelists," said Mr. Ahmed, the author of a new book "Islam Under Siege: Living Dangerously in a Post-Honor World" (Polity Press). "Unwittingly, these evangelists have unleashed a consolidation of sentiments for Islam. Even the most moderate Muslims have been upset by this." The push for conversions may backfire for the evangelists, he said, since Muslims who may have been open to the missionaries' presence feel their honor has been insulted. In interviews, evangelical authors and lecturers said their work did not denigrate Islam as much as share the truth about Christianity. Ergun M. Caner, raised a Muslim by his Turkish family, converted to Christianity as a teenager and wrote, with his brother Emir, "Unveiling Islam: An Insider Look at Muslim Life and Beliefs" (Kregel Publications), which has sold more than 100,000 copies. "I am more interested in apologetics than polemics," said Mr. Caner, now a professor of theology and church history at The Criswell College. "Apologetics is defending your faith, and polemics is critiquing others. A Muslim has the right to to worship Allah, and I have a right to stand in front of that mosque and tell them that Jesus saves. That's the hope for Iraq, the hope for Afghanistan." Evangelical scholars and leaders cite several reasons for their quickening interest in Islam: the American defeat of a major Muslim nation, Iraq, which may open it to Christian missionaries, while other Muslim nations remain closed; the 2001 terrorist attacks, which led many Americans to see Islam as a global threat; the greater numbers and visibility of Muslims in the United States, and the demise of Communism, once public enemy No. 1 for many evangelical organizations. "Evangelicals have substituted Islam for the Soviet Union," said the Rev. Richard Cizik, vice president for governmental affairs of the National Association of Evangelicals, which represents 43,000 congregations. "The Muslims have become the modern-day equivalent of the Evil Empire." The National Association of Evangelicals called on Christian leaders this month to temper their anti-Islam oratory, saying it had been unhelpful to interfaith relations, and dangerous to Christians spreading the gospel to Muslims. While some evangelical leaders welcomed the criticism, others bristled and said that it was not the Christians but the Muslims who must stop the hate-speech. Historians note that enmity between Christianity and Islam dates as far back as the Crusades, the fall of Byzantium and the reconquest of Spain. "Keep in mind that Islam is the only religious tradition that has ever threatened the existence of Christianity," said Charles Kimball, chairman of the religion department at Wake Forest University in Winston-Salem, N.C., and author of the book "When Religion Becomes Evil" (Harper San Francisco, 2002). "That's deeply woven into our subconscious, into Western literature and culture, and so this image of an Islamic threat taps into a notion that's there already." The conservative evangelical approach to Islam is in stark contrast with the "interfaith understanding" approach of many Orthodox, Roman Catholic and mainline Protestant churches like the Methodists, Episcopalians and Lutherans. Since 9/11, local churches in these denominations began inviting Muslims to explain their faith at a flurry of interfaith events and dialogue sessions. "God calls all of us to have an open mind and an open heart," said the Rev. Robert Edgar, general secretary of the National Council of Churches, which represents many Protestant and Orthodox denominations. "And many of the people who are part of the National Council of Churches believe that if judgment is to be made it needs to be made by God and not by those of us who have divided ourselves up around a particular ideology." These churches acknowledge theological differences between Christianity and Islam, but stress the common roots and essential compatibility. They teach that Muslims are monotheists, "Allah" is simply Arabic for God, and both faiths share Abraham as patriarch. But for many of the evangelical experts on Islam, these notions are simplistic whitewash to paint over a real theological divide. At the daylong seminar in the fellowship hall of Southwest Grace Brethren Church, just outside Columbus, the teacher drew on his own life experience as evidence of Islam's evils. While President Bush and others have depicted Islam as a peaceful religion that has been "hijacked" by extremists, the teacher said he knew better than to believe that. He spoke of a childhood friend in Beirut who joined the Hezbollah terrorist network and showed off his victims' severed ears. Another friend, he said, was threatened with death by his father when he converted to Christianity. (The teacher did not mention the Phalangist Christian militias that helped stoke Lebanon's civil war.) He did not tell the class who he was, and his mysteriousness reinforced his message that Christian missionaries face danger in Muslim nations. At least six have been killed since Sept. 11, 2001. "You can tell me Islam is peaceful, but I've done my homework," he said, reeling off a list of Koranic citations. "From the beginning of Islam, the sword brought results faster than words." Some of what he taught would be accepted by most theologians: Muslims reject the Christian concept of a Trinitarian God — the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. Muslims respect Jesus as a prophet, but do not accept the Christian belief that he is the son of God. But he intermingled accepted facts with negative accounts of Islamic teaching, history and traditions. The pilgrimage to Mecca, he said, is a dangerous event at which people are killed every year. Communal prayers each Friday are "a day of rage," he said. And Muslims even pray differently than Christians, he said. "Muslims pray to get points," he said, "not to communicate with God." Group prayer on Fridays is for "extra points," he said. Pat McEvoy, a secretary at a high school in Columbus, said she had known very little about Islam before the seminar. Her school has an influx of students from Somalia, and as she walked through the hallways she regarded these immigrants as "a virtual mission field." She said she felt an obligation to save them from an eternity in Hell. "If I had the answer for cancer, what sort of a human would I be not to share it?" Ms. McEvoy said. The teacher concluded by giving the students tips on what to do and not to do to reach Muslims: Don't approach them in groups. Don't bring them to your church, because they will misunderstand the singing and clapping as a party. Do invite them home for a meal. Do bring them chocolate chip cookies. Do talk about how, in order to get saved, they must accept Jesus. "Our job," he said, "is not to make the Muslim a Christian. Our job is to show them the love of Christ."

This is a passage from a New York Times article; "Seeing Islam as 'Evil' Faith, Evangelicals Seek Converts" It talks about an Evangelical School sectritary in Columbus Ohio trying to conver Somali students, and more. If you want to read the whole article follow the hyperlink below. http://www.nytimes.com/2003/05/27/national/27ISLA.html ------------------------------ Pat McEvoy, a secretary at a high school in Columbus, said she had known very little about Islam before the seminar. Her school has an influx of students from Somalia, and as she walked through the hallways she regarded these immigrants as "a virtual mission field." She said she felt an obligation to save them from an eternity in Hell. "If I had the answer for cancer, what sort of a human would I be not to share it?" Ms. McEvoy said. The teacher concluded by giving the students tips on what to do and not to do to reach Muslims: Don't approach them in groups. Don't bring them to your church, because they will misunderstand the singing and clapping as a party. Do invite them home for a meal. Do bring them chocolate chip cookies. Do talk about how, in order to get saved, they must accept Jesus. "Our job," he said, "is not to make the Muslim a Christian. Our job is to show them the love of Christ."

I would say its either Greater Somalia or nin kastaba naftiis. Look at the map Boosaaso is no more "Southern" then berbara.

inaa ilaaha wa ina ilahi rajicuun I am Shock...I don't know what to say...it seems like I am one of the last persons to see him and to find out about this trajic event so late. [ May 20, 2003, 03:57 AM: Message edited by: Admin ]

I am old school...Eddie Murphy is my fav. comedian. After you see "delirious" and "Eddie Murphy Raw" you'll agree.

What up Nomads, This is something that puzzled and annoyed me for some years now. As Muslims why shouldn't we use the Hijra as a calendar? I found out most of us don't even know the months and the fact that it is a lunar calendar rather than solar. Also what do you guys think of educated Muslims saying, 21st century this, 21st century that, and so on? Because after all, this calendar is based on the birth of Christ. Peace, PS. Please stop saying 21st century because technically we are in the 15th century...1424H!!! And save me the irritation.

Salaan Furan, Frankly I am not feeling this thread because of its tribal insinuations. Especially after I got into a heated argument with a co-worker in the office of a prominent politician, who remarked, “Somalis break up into clans…they hate each other more than…their children don’t go to schools and elders sit/stand corners all day…” And some more I am too angry to repeat on the web for the sake of protecting my employer. Though I loathe conceding this emerging stereotype of Somalis in the West, I am beginning to believe it’s a correct evaluation… Back to the Topic: My own evaluations of people who frequent this thread! They divide into 3 factions: Those with principled arguments, those who argue for the sake of arguing, and some hardcore tribalists. LANDER I put you in the camp that argue for the sake of arguing! In response to your April 24th Post: You say we were never unified as a country before independence. Shouldn’t that tell you something? In the history of the entire Somali people, we were only unified once and for 28 yrs of dictatorship. The country was a failure all around. The people who are nostalgic about the good old Bare days, is those who benefited from their close ethnic association with the dictator. Have you really read my post clearly? Yes we as Somalis were never united politically. Which means such entities, as “Somaliland” and “Somalia” are political creation. However, that does not mean there is no SOMALI nation (which is different from State!). Again, please differentiate between the Bare regime and the Somali people. In my opinion United Somalia was not a failure! It was simply hijacked and abused by a ruthless dictator. Don’t you see the fault in your own argument? By saying “Somalia” never existed you are also Saying “Somaliland” never existed. Bear in mind that every clan and sub-clan had his or her own leader before Independence. Greater “Somalia” is multi tribal and multi ethnic and so is “Somaliland”. If “Somalia” disintegrates into Somaliland and Somalia proper, then Somaliland too will disintegrate because seceding would not cure the DISEASE and that is tribalism my friend! I pointed out the English because it is they that called it “Somaliland” and that is where you get legitimacy…that you were colonized by Britain instead of Italy, Am I right? Why don’t other parts of “Somalia” or parts of “Somaliland” call for independence? Admit the truth, it is not “meaningless historical fact”, but rather has great part to do with this predicament. To your question: Why should we unite? Brother do I need to say the obvious. In today’s world we cannot afford to split; without you I am nothing, and without me you are nothing. Plus we are both sick we got what Somalis call Qabyaalad, and I don’t think it could be healed without bringing our commonality to forth and burying our differences. What you are suggesting is the opposite? :confused:

Personally I do not support the division of Somalia into pathetic mini states. True Somalis were really never united politically before independence but does that mean every tribe or sub-clan should get its own state? This is why I don’t appreciate the Waqooyi Galbeed’s (I try to refrain from using “Somaliland” because of its colonial connotation) drive to separate from the rest of Somalia. Just because the English occupied ‘Somaliland’ to protect their route to India through the Suez Canal and supply meat to their soldiers in Aden does not make ‘Somaliland’ a STATE. So far I have not find the main arguments of the pro-secessionists persuasive. For example, in these posts many talk about the horrendous suffering and genocides that people from the north suffered under Bare’s regime, which NO ONE is disputing. However some tend to not distinguish between the Bare regime and ‘Somalis’. Bare was at war with ALL Somalis who apposed his dictatorial rule and therefore targeted and murdered individuals and groups who he perceived threaten him. And that even included members of his own family! I hope you are not advocating for everyone who got wronged by Bare to have his/her own state, are you? Beside the fact that the North was colonized by Britain instead of Italy and suffered under Bare’s regime like all other Somalis have, what other legitimate claims are there for it to secede form Somalia? This post is not intended to cause offense but rather to challenge believes and educate one another and that includes me hopefully with your responses. Ma salaama.

I also feel very sad, shamefull and ANGARY :mad: but keep u're head up brother. Keep hope alive we will live to fight another day...

Somalis are predisposed to hatred. Its part of being Somali and is thus cultural. Fighting, stubbornness, and quarrelling are highly valued qualities that mothers wish upon their sons & daughters. Those who are lucky enough to have these traits are considered “diric”. What puzzles me the most is that there seems to be a fight wherever Somalis gather in large numbers (e.g. parties), yet those same people act so docile and polite when they are around non-Somalis or at non-Somali events. Why is that? Coming back to the topic, I think Somalis were/are always in conflict and would remained to do so in a long time. There was no such thing as “Somalia” before the white man came and is thus as artificial as Kenya or any other African country. Yes, a homogenous people who spoke one language, looked the same, and practiced the same religion inhabited the land but they were never a political unit, rather they organized themselves by tribes, and the only enemy they have known except Ethiopians were themselves! What’s wrong with Somalia is the use of "Qabil" as a political category. Qabil was important in the old days where it provided protection from other people. It played the role of the government. In those days where every one was for himself, belonging to a Qabil meant that you're property and Life will be respected, if not the one who violates would have to deal with you and you're Qabil. Often outsiders were adopted by a Qabil and thus given proctection. In a sense it was the Supreme law enforcer of the land. However, it makes no sense to use Qabil now because, if there is a State or government that will enforce the law of the Land, and will treat the population equally, then the use of Qabil for political purpose is counterproductive. For example if a men from another Qabil kills a men, the government should take the necessary steps to ensure justice not the Qabil. If we let the Qabil perform the duties of the government than there is really no government or State because the definition of state is to have a monopoly on the use of force, or Authority. By the Qabil stepping in, it weakens the State, which leads to people more and more relaying on their Qabil, rather than the State. You might ask what is wrong with this? Well, by giving the Qabil more Authority the State is weakened. This leads to a competition between Qabils for resources. Instead of the State working for the common good of "All" and the equal distribution of resources, there will be chaos and bloodshed in consequence to individuals and groups who want everything and NONE to the rest of the population. After independence the use of Qabil continued and eventually undermined the “Somali State” and Pan-Somalism. This tragedy was compounded by the fact that there is/was not really one Dominant Qabil, which is why we have this Stalemate. But the Question is who benefits from this situation? Clearly it is evident that the benefactors of the current situation are the Warlords or the Individuals who use Qabil to define their political agenda. He who says, "I am going to stand for our Qabil—and defend our rights" seems to get the Torch. Also one might want to know the losers of the situation. The losers are the common folks, who blindly give the torch to the warlord. To them it seems that their Qabil will give them things the state cannot provide them. To reconcile Qabil and State some warlords propose the creation of a state (e.g. Puntland, Somaliland, etc), and ordinary Somalis follow like sheep thinking that would bring salvation. Others see this, and ask why can’t we (Qabil A, B, C, etc) also have our own State? Since when a Qabil = State? God help these poor disoriented folks. AMEN. It is obvious where our problems lie; it is the use of Qabil to achieve political goals. In doing so very little of the population benefits and the rest suffer because Qabil cannot bring the benefits for example a State can bring. A State in its best form is the enforcer of law and order, and the distributor of resources equally. And which works for the advancement of "all" of its Citizens. In that case Somalia never had a “State”. And for those who are advocating for mini-States, what proof do you have that they would be Qabil free? And what happens to minorities that happen to cohabit that land with the dominant Qabil? My fellow Somalis lets do everything we can do to undermine the use of Qabil for political gains that includes regionalism or stateism. Lets work for the creation of that Somali State that we all deserve; the one that protects all of our rights, that sees us all as equal citizens, and works for the advancement of all Somalis! I am keeping my fingers crossed. Looking forward to your comments. Peace

aaahhhhhhhhhhh i second shyhem

aaahhhhhhhhh great advise man! you should write a book and titled it "the survival guide to arranged marriages" lol how u know so much?

I know u feelin bro, I went through the same thing. I just couldn’t take the thought that any children that resulted in that marriage would not only look like me but 'might' just might abandon their Somali heritage. So I settled for a xaliimo and very happy I did it. Peace & good luck.

China is NOT like Iraq! Militarily it is only 3rd to USA and Russia if not overtaken Russia already. Yes economically it is not as strong as USA or Japan but china's economy is the only economy that has been growing 7% to 12% since the early 1990s. Within 10 more years and its entry to the WTO, China would definitely overtake Japan, South Korea and South East Asia (Tiger economies) both in economic output and attracting more direct investment. Right now china is strong in manufacturing but soon its industries would mature and thus develop more hi-tech goods and would start competing Japan and USA. Instead of making toys and shoes the China of the future would be the leader in technical innovations. Remember Samsung of South Korea was making microwaves in the 1980s but now its making cell phones, computers, satellites, and military equipments that rival those of the USA, Japan, and the EU. So China definitely has the ingredients to become superpower: large population, strong military, and soon strong economy. You better be learning Mandarin or Cantonese because within fifty to hundred years these two languages would also overtake English and become the languages of power! That’s why I am studying in Hong Kong next year! PS. Military spending and military strength are two different things! Yes Saudi Arabia spends 14 some Billion a year on its military but poor Iran or Iraq would kick its *** any day, YES Iraq, even at its current sorry state! Peace

because I am very scary!!! xxxxuuuuuxxxx Durwaa cararr I'll give you the goose pumps my lady

ahhhhhhhhhhhh dame...how u got this letter? what happen to the money? about 50% to 90% of any aid or development money goes to these guys either for salary, or stolen, and the raimder usually ends up in bad investments or projects. So this is not new. They (bankers + economists) all do it, even in the world bank. Thanks for the story, very funny indeed!

Salaam, Ladies do not worry! You know what they say about Beauty, that it is in the eye of the beholder. my Turn offs. Women: -With no self-esteem -That r 2 religious—fundamentalist type -That r pear shaped. The ones that look like Big Bird! Baashi looool -That have an attitude -Those who use foul language, the thuggish type -Bad dancers, forget about grinding at least move to the beats! -Bad kissers -Those who play hard to get even though they’re interested :mad: That’s all for now, more coming

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh dame that was funny. Thanks for the laugh.

Same here...Kill the basbas, hillib ciirin eating mother F***s. Got no love for them. I want me a geel jire nomad girl with big f*** up Afro no matter what region she is from...that’s my dream!

:mad: This conversation demoralizes and disgusts me...after 12yrs on we are still talking about spilling more blood of innocent Somalis. What kind of race or people are we? Savages? UUUFFF I bet monkeys got better brains than we do! At least they don’t get electric shocked twice! How long can this nonsense go on, another 12yrs, 24yrs, 36yrs? F*** (excuse my language) I was planning on retiring there :confused: SHAME on all of you who are actually fanaticizing of the prospect of more bloodshed. Instead of predicting which side will win, you should be infuriated that this Ignorance, JAAHILIYA, and JAHANAMA on EARTH is spreading. I swear to God, we are cursed! What did we do to deserve this? Its time for reflection, and reckoning nomads! Please do anything in your power to take back our beautiful land from these savages that hijack it. For the of sake our dignity and for the sake of our children. Peace

We don't have leaders but criminals...they should ALL (the warlords in eldored) be on trial for War CRIMES. Maybe only than, can we see any light at end of the tunnel. Peace

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh dame that was funny...keep it coming sis

I feel you sis. It is very sad and frustrating to see youngsters acting with such silliness and ignorance. But what better examples or role models do they have? Most of these Nomads saw people they looked up to once, committing despicable crimes against each other and cutting each other’s throats, and using archaic notions of identity like tribalism to justify their actions. So when they arrive in North America or Europe for that matter, these youngsters had to make a choice: Should they express, and proudly share their Somali heritage or should they ACCEPT their newly imposed identity, which was black/African. Hence, youngsters chose the easy route, which was the sleazy way out—copying what they saw as “black” on BET and MTV! Therefore my sister, this is not unique to Somalis but a problem that all “blacks” face. Were you ever accused of “acting white” for simply doing well in school? And by Somalis! Truly a very distressing situation, God help the Somali Nation for we are in a crises mode. Fellow Nomads, please, be very proud of who you are, and don’t ever let anyone to pigeon hole you into any category! Show that Cushitic instinct and spirit, and direct your energies into something productive! Nabadgalyo,