U think all we are doing is complaining? Really UD? I thought we were only defending our gender from all sorts of accusations from urs. It seems as if we cant do anything right nowadays. I myself thought it was the guys who were full of complaints..."too westernised", "dhaqan is only for the females", "responsible for high divorce", "basically evil" and similar tripe, but I could be wrong, of course. Useful topics you say? Maybe like safety and "self-defence tips for women"? Hmmmmm...I wonder what's been happening to that topic of late? Education? Oh no, disaster!...by discussing the importance of education, what if we all decide to delay marriages and in the process become spinisters by 26? No, education is definitely bad (altho almost 70% of the population is illiterate)...maybe we should leave education alone. Well, what about business, I hear you ask? Hmmm...could be tricky as well. As u are aware, Somali women are quite obsessive about having careers and talking about business may...well, may make us want to...actually GET JOBS! :eek: ...A cardinal sin, I believe. Sure, let us have some useful topics. It should be interesting to see how long we would be able to explore issues together before u start blaming and knocking us back. Have a nice day.

Salaam Shayma, I think this topic relates directly to your SSM (Somali Single Mothers) topic and indirectly to Balsam's "I want to get married" discussions. Recently there have been a lot of discussions about Somali marriages and its failure. Whether is due to lack of commitment and family values, it’s problem that will keep on re-accruing as long as we keep taking marriage lightly. There is a lack of preparation prior to marriage; most Somalis just jump into the marriage boat like it’s a new trend, without realising that this might be the most life changing decision that will ever have to make in their entire life. I kinda agree, but I think there's a lot of other elements involved. I have to run now, but I'll definitely come back and post my comments later Insha'Allah. Good topic.

"Oh no anything but athena's whip!!!" LoL @ Conspiracy... Walaalkiis, for what it is worth, I do feel sorry for your friend. For some reason bad things usually happen to good people, but as they say "what goes around, comes around". flying-still, Athena is a dominatrix...didn't u know?

Ameenah, Nefertiti, flying-still and juxa... There was so much wrong with that article that I really didn't know where to start or what points to address, but as I should have known ( :rolleyes: ) you girls picked up on all the most important points and responded more brilliantly than I ever could. Mansha'Allah. I happen to agree with all of you. Thank you for adding several new dimensions to my thoughts on this complex topic.

I'm sorry if the article is too long. I left a lot out but still... Shaqsii...thank you. Baashi..I'll post the debt piece later, Insha'Allah. Enjoy.

Orientalism, Misinformation and Islam by Abû Imân cAbd al-Rahmân Robert Squires Any open-minded person embarking on a study of Islam, especially if using books written in European languages, should be aware of the seemingly inherent distortions that permeate almost all non-Muslim writings on Islam. At least since the Middle Ages, Islam has been much maligned and severely misunderstood in the West. In the last years of the Twentieth Century, it does not seem that much has changed even though most Muslims would agree that progress is being made. I feel that an elegant summary of the West's ignorance of Islam and the motives of Orientalism are the following words by the Swiss journalist and author, Roger Du Pasquier: The West, whether Christian or dechristianised, has never really known Islam. Ever since they watched it appear on the world stage, Christians never ceased to insult and slander it in order to find justification for waging war on it. It has been subjected to grotesque distortions the traces of which still endure in the European mind. Even today there are many Westerners for whom Islam can be reduced to three ideas: fanaticism, fatalism and polygamy. Of course, there does exist a more cultivated public whose ideas about Islam are less deformed; there are still precious few who know that the word Islam signifies nothing other than 'submission to God'. One symptom of this ignorance is the fact that in the imagination of most Europeans, Allah refers to the divinity of the Muslims, not the God of the Christians and Jews; they are all surprised to hear, when one takes the trouble to explain things to them, that 'Allah' means 'God', and that even Arab Christians know him by no other name. Islam has of course been the object of studies by Western orientalists who, over the last two centuries, have published an extensive learned literature on the subject. Nevertheless, however worthy their labours may have been , particularly in the historical and and philological fields, they have contributed little to a better understanding of the Muslim religion in the Christian or post-Christian milieu, simply because they have failed to arouse much interest outside their specialised academic circles. One is forced also to concede that Oriental studies in the West have not always been inspired by the purest spirit of scholarly impartiality, and it is hard to deny that some Islamicists and Arabists have worked with the clear intention of belittling Islam and its adherents. This tendency was particularly marked for obvious reasons in the heyday of the colonial empires, but it would be an exaggeration to claim that it has vanished without trace. These are some of the reasons why Islam remains even today so misjudged by the West, where curiously enough, Asiatic faiths such as Buddhism and Hinduism have for more than a century generated far more visible sympathy and interest, even though Islam is so close to Judaism and Christianity, having flowed from the same Abrahamic source. Despite this, however, for several years it has seemed that external conditions, particularly the growing importance of the Arab-Islamic countries in the world's great political and economic affairs, have served to arouse a growing interest of Islam in the West, resulting for some in the discovery of new and hitherto unsuspected horizons. (From Unveiling Islam, by Roger Du Pasquier, pages 5-7) The phenomenon which is generally known as Orientalism is but one aspect of Western misrepresentations of Islam. Today, most Muslims in the West would probably agree that the majority of distortions about Islam come from the media, whether in newspapers, magazines or on television. In terms of the number of people who are reached by such information, the mass media certainly has more of a widespread impact on the West's view of Islam than do the academic publications of "Orientalists", "Arabists" or "Islamicists". In recent years, the academic field of what used to be called Orientalism has been renamed "Area Studies" or "Regional Studies". These politically correct terms have taken the place of the word "Orientalism" in scholarly circles since the latter word is now tainted with a negative imperialist connotation, in a large measure due to the Orientalists themselves. However, even though the works of scholars who pursue these fields do not reach the public at large, they do often fall into the hands of students and those who are personally interested in learning more about Islam. As such, any student of Islam especially those in the West need to be aware of the historical phenomenon of Orientalism, both as an academic pursuit and as a means of cultural exploitation. When used by Muslims, the word "Orientalist" generally refers to any Western scholar who studies Islam regardless of his or her motives and thus, inevitably, distorts it. As we shall see, however, the phenomenon of Orientalism is much more than an academic pursuit. Edward Said, a renowned Arab Christian scholar and author of several books exposing shortcomings of the Orientalist approach, defines "Orientalism" as follows: . . . by Orientalism I mean several things, all of them, in my opinion, interdependent. The most readily accepted designation of for Orientalism is an academic one, and indeed, and indeed the label still serves in a number of academic institutions. Anyone who teaches, writes about, or researches the Orient and this applies whether the person is an anthropologist, sociologist, historian, or philogist either in its specific or its general aspects, is an Orientalist, and what he or she does is Orientalism. (From Orientalism, by Edward W. Said, page 2) As is the case with many things, being aware of the problem is half the battle. Once a sincere seeker of the Truth is aware of the long standing misunderstanding and hostility between Islam and the West and learns not to trust everything which they see in print authentic knowledge and information can be gained much more quickly. Certainly, not all Western writings on Islam have the same degree of bias they run the range from willful distortion to simple ignorance and there are even a few that could be classified as sincere efforts by non-Muslims to portray Islam in a positive light. However, even most of these works are plagued by seemingly unintentional errors, however minor, due to the author's lack of Islamic knowledge. In the spirit of fairness, it should be said that even some contemporary books on Islam by Muslim authors suffer from these same shortcomings, usually due to a lack of knowledge, heretical ideas and or depending on non-Muslim sources. Continue reading here...

Originally posted by Khayr: [QB] Salaamz, quote: Marriage isn't a joke and neither is it something to rush into when you are young. By Barwaaqo Interesting? You know if you go over to the otherside of the world, in muslim dominated lands you would get a difference response. I don't think that they would say 'No, you're too young to get married now' Why would have a different view then what most predominates in the pyschi and mentality of Western people and in this case, Somali Women who are located in the West? Thank you for that. Please, disagree with me, but don't question my faith. My location dictates my experience, but it doesn't dictate who I'm, and I don't particularly enjoy being labelled as 'westernised'. I fully understand the discourse behind the idea of 'Westoxification', and I think it is a pusillanimous way of undermining those whose views you don't hold with. But let us leave it there. My understanding of the topic is that Balsam feels that she missed a great chance to get married when she was younger (altho I don't think she's old by any means) and she doesn't want other girls to go thru her experience. That's fair enough. However, what I took an exception to was her advice to girls to marry the first person to knock on their door. Maybe it is only me but I don't see that as genuine advice. Whats funny in all your responses with the exception on sister and she doesn't live in the West (thus reflecting her response), is that most of you have adviced Balsam to hold off and wait and even try to wait until 30. My dear, none of us have control over when, where or who we marry. It is predetermined for us, so whether you advice her to get married now, or whether the sistas advice her to wait, it doesn't matter. That's what I meant by my previous post. There's no point crying over it, regrets are a waste of time. I don't know how old are some of you, but if you just sit down and reflect , Balsam is in a situation that many of you are headed towards I'm not sure how to respond to this....maybe thank you for your concern? :confused: In anycase, If you put your Dunya before your Akhera then you will lose out on the Akhera and vice versa. Seems like Education and more Education then a CAREER, is what is a priority to some of you. Well, it is true that you shouldn't put this world before Akhera, but that doesn't mean education is bad. There's nothing wrong with seeking knowledge and it doesn't have to be at the expense of creating a family. Only Allah knows best.

Originally posted by Conspiracy: OH MY GOD BERWAQO YOU ARE SO CRUEL!!! and i think you meant to say (Ku meel Gaar Buu Ahaa) Correcting my somali? :mad: LoL..J/K! Yeah that's what I meant to say. And it is a good thing that you are my fave Cuz...otherwise...u kno the deal...it involves Athena's whip.

Originally posted by Gediid: I will either run for my life or cry like a little girl LoL! One better than me...I would probably faint as soon as I saw the knife. Ilaahay hay naga qabto. Batuulo....that is scary sis. Nin Yaaban, It is not just women that are attacked, u kno. I read a newspaper article not too long ago which claimed men (especially young men) were 4 times more likely to get attacked in London than young women. I don't know if its' the same in the States or not...but apparently, men get involved in fights more easily, they are not careful or aware of their surroundings when they are out (especially late at night) and most importantly they are too over confident. So, it is important for both sexes to learn some form of defence. Insha'Allah, ur skills will never be tested, but whether it proves useful or useless, you'll at least have more confidence. It is also a good way of staying fit....a good thing whichever way you look at it. Maybe you should try it b4 u knock it. I'll try to find that article now.

Originally posted by Nin-Yaaban: Sorry for my poor wordings everyone. What i want to say is, even with all the world's training women are still being assaulted everywhere in the world. Of the 50k women assaulted in Northern United States, 80% said they had some trainings on self-defense. So this training isn't all its crunked up to be. And for the *Keyboard-Commandos* statemant, what it means is, PEOPLE like angel talk really taugh behind computer screens but the FBI annual report suggests different. If self-defense isn't the answer...what would u suggest as an alternative? :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Opinionated: Guess he ain't never been around black girls LoL...guess so.

Originally posted by Raxmah: May allah take this suffering from the child and and the family. May allah help the family keep their imaan despite the difficult situation. May allah bless the suffering children with health and imaan. Amiin. Poor baby...Ilaahay ha u gargaaro.

^^ I don't get the point you are trying to make. :confused: "you would learn different" Different what? Yes, there is a lot of violent crimes committed against women. Isn't that another reason why women should learn to defend themselves or carry weapons?

LoL

Ayayayaaa!

LoL @ ^^

LoL. Which notes are faked I wonder?

I think ur friend got played. Obviously, meel ku gaadh buu ahaa.

"I just want to express the importance of getting married while young, I know we tend to be picky and reject a man who is willing to marry us for a silly reason" Balsam, Marriage isn't a joke and neither is it something to rush into when you are young. Like many ppl have said already, u'll get married when it is your time to get married. Nothing you do will change what's meant to be. As for getting married while you are young, you never know how things will work out. Let us say you chose to marry one of those fellas that approached you when you were younger. Who is to say that you wouldn't now be a 26-year-old divorced single mum? No-one knows what the future holds. I think you are wrong to assume that you won't get what you want out of life just because you are a certain age. Maybe you should thank Allah for all you've achieved so far (academically and professionally) rather than moan about what may have been and how you missed such great opportunities. I'm sorry if I sound harsh.

I agree with Ameenah. 95% of the blame is on the women. I don't understand the logic behind performing the same torture you went thru as a child on your daughters. There is something disturbingly sadistic about the whole practice. The rest of the blame lies with the men. They could do a lot about getting rid of the practice if they wanted to. But it doesn't concern them, so they don't care. They prefer to stay mute and blind while their daughters are being mutilated. :mad: The whole society sucks to tell ya the truth. I don't know how they can live with themselves markey caruurta qashaan.

Amina Shakur appears to be a dataqle. She undermined all her valid points about Somali marriages in the diaspora with remarks such as "Somali men should accept the European way of life". What European way of life? :rolleyes:

^^ So all that was an experiment, huh? :mad: U've managed to upset a lot of nomads and people don't like being used as guinea pigs u kno....I hope u'll let us kno the next time you want to carry out another 'experiment'. Asraa, There's no point in deleting the whole thread sis. I've just spent the last 45 mins mass-deleting/editing all the posts to do with OG_Girl's charming little project. The nomads can respond to your topic in peace now. I hope. I need a cuppa...

Absorbing pieces. Can we post any subject Baashi? I was thinking of something I wrote on the International Debt Crisis.

Originally posted by Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar: Noo, noo, don't tell us that. Xishoow. LoL...I like the wiggling finger!

Originally posted by rudy: first cut is the deepest cut! i believe thats what sista asraa is refering! Rudy, I agree with you there. First love is quite powerful. But it doesn't seem to be designed to last. I think it is designed to help us mature emotionally and catapult us into adulthood. Why? Because first love usually happens when you are young (your first attachment/connection to someone other than your parents or siblings...tis why they call it first love). As you grow up, your opinions change, your outlook in life changes, your tastes, wants and needs also change. Given the chance (lets say marriage), first loves don't usually have any longevity. More often than not they lead to heartbreak/divorce. Whichever way it goes tho, we can't help looking back on it with rose-tinted goggles. I bet if you guys had the chance to get back together with your firsts, you'ld find things very different to what you remembered! So, why is it so difficult to forget your first love? Simple...because we love the giddily-sweet, uncertain and emotionally-charged feelings we experience in the first flush. Who wouldn't want to continously experience such feelings? Furthermore, it is effortless to attach many unrealistic qualities to your first love..."my first love was so beautiful...sweet...kind..could fly..." :rolleyes: Also, it is quite natural to compare your first love to the people you come across later in life. Well, why shouldn't you, when you feel they were perfect? And why were they perfect? Because there was no-one b4 them to compare them to. Duh! There are exceptions to every rule however and sometimes things work out. Very rarely tho.